He's talking complete ****. You could make a few million at most from each ship you did this with when the ship price was crap, but in order to make tens of billions you'd have to do this thousands of times!

For this reason I say this guy is talking out of his

u mad bro?

It's an exploit, get over it and go do something productive.

Who said insurance fraud was not an exploit?

Well the done. You made a small amount of ISK and the fact that you went into it with 40 manufacturing slots working 24/7 demonstrates beyond any reasonable doubt that you are a complete **** moron!

That kind of define it as an exploit don't you think?

Reading about this, I think the big difference was the "recycling" of drops. The LP paid out for loot destroyed, from what I read, that included dropped items only. The fact they would pick up dropped items and blow it up again to get lp meant that they were getting alot more lp than what was destroyed. The mechanic stated that it would pay out to items destroyed and they made notice that stuff was not destroyed but they were giving the payout means exploit in my eyes.

I know. It is difficult. You have to see the whole picture and not everybody can do it.

But this is the exploit they used (I actually though you know but ... hell). 1.) They manipulated the price of an item in order to 2) cash in LP on that item based on the manipulated price in 1). The two are not an exploit in isolation. The two of them combined with the intention to make an unfair shitload amount of LP is an exploit.

The perpetrators themselves knew it was an exploit. Or why do you think they reported it to CCP?

for this project you talk about on the first page, did you have your alts shoot you and salvage? or did you do something to trigger a response from other players to speed things up? did random people blow you up? or always someone under your control? i'm just trying to wrap my head around what must have been required to blow up hundreds of ships. if you were able to do it totally solo with alts, well thats amazing. with help from friends its slightly less impressive, but still a pretty massive undertaking.

What I dont undestand is how doing anything that involves killing youself, your alts, of your allies for profit isn't considered a broken game mechanic and isn't an exploit. Any sort of player vs player destruction should always result in a net loss.

Just because game mechanics allow something does not mean it's not an exploit. Often it means they don't know about it or they haven't fixed it yet. The defense "the game allows me to do it so it should be allowed" is trying to get away on a technicality. You don't have to be warned or punished to exploit something unintended. It doesn't have to be fixed for you to be exploiting something that is unintended.

I love the list of things they did and asking which one is the exploit. I'm pretty sure if I had followed all those steps I would have lost ISK and wondered which part you left out. The part that was left out is where they analyzed and manipulated the market to make tons of ISK from NPCs. Your list is not complete because I can follow it to the letter and not make any ISK. You wanted a better analogy, ok...Buying and selling stocks is legal. Using information that not everyone has access to in order to make the buying and selling of stocks more profitable is not legal.

Blowing up ships to make a profit from the insurance was an exploit. Do you really think that was what was intended? It was a flaw in the design of it and people exploited that flaw.

This shouldn't be such a point of contention. How you define it is just silly, we all understand the problem. They used a flaw in the game design to make ISK in a way that was not intended.

Manipulating the market to make lots of ISK from other players = good.
Manipulating the market to make lots of ISK from NPCs = bad.

Did you purposely blow up ships to make a profit from NPC's from insurance? Do you think it was the intention of the game designers for you to make a PROFIT off insurance, or do you think maybe they thought it would PARTIALLY pay for your ship and help ease the burden of the loss?

so was the other posters comment about GCC and undocking the way it was done? like on the first undock, lock and fire on someone's can, then docking, reboarding, repeat?

I did no such thing. I asked that person what they thought the game designers intended. I still haven't heard back.

And no, it is not interpretation, it is intention.

Let's try it like this. In a small town, a local bar owner sets up a roulette wheel. We all know what a roulette wheel is, and that it is intended to have slots all with an equal chance of the ball falling in it.

One guy in town watches as people play and notes how often each number gets called and starts to notice number 12 is getting called far too often. One night when it starts to get to be not so crowded he goes to inspect the wheel and sees that it has a defect that will make it fall in 12 more often. He tells the bartender, who says he's looked at it and it's fine, stop worrying. You tell him you're going to come use it and make a bunch of money, he says go ahead, give it a try. He thinks you'll lose.

You come in the next day, play the number all day and walk away with a huge profit. That's an exploit. You knew about a flaw that was against the intention of what a roulette wheel is for, and used that flaw.

Another guy comes in every Friday and puts $20 on number 12 because it's his lucky number. At the end of the year he finds that he's a lot richer than he expected. That's not an exploit. There was a flaw, it was used, but without intention.

It's all about intention. Are you trying to use a flaw for personal gain.

That somewhat sums up my definition of 'exploit' and I will stick by it. And since I also believe that they do not intend for me to make a bunch of ISK from NPC's with minimal effort, I would not have used this latest LP exploit.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/06/23/eve-online-developers-on-the-importance-of-harnessing-player-creativity/



Huh. It seems like the design philosophy of EVE is that CCP puts out tools out there, and relies on creative players to come up with novel ways to use those tools.


No, that can't be right. Instead we should just try to figure out their specific "intent" and then only do that. That must be it.

so you're the ass that got insurance nerfed to the point that it's useless.