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Arik VanClaw Helljumpers	Posted - 2010.01.12 22:41:00 - [31] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Arik VanClaw Originally by: Imperator Jora'h People on the right seem to think truth has a liberal bias. It doesn't. Wow, are people really this blind? Good muppet, here's a cookie for you. I'm always left wondering by statements like these - about what the poster actually implies. Must be my non native English :/ Well in my post at least, I'm implying that the quoted poster is saying conservatives or the right would not recognize the truth when they saw it and would immediately think it tainted with a liberal slant. Or perhaps he's implying that liberalism is the only truth as anything not liberal must be false. Hard to say. My comment is pointing out that this is exactly the kind of brainwashed muppet any politico would love to have on their side. A zealot who views the truth of the world through his own belief tinted glasses, or barring that assumes any who disagree must have a very skewed world view themselves, and can in no way argue without being dismissed as....wait for it....biased. It makes it impossible for anyone to denounce the opposing position when this mindset is adopted, as all arguments to the contrary are immediately rendered invalid by the listener before the speaker has had a chance to present them simply based on the value of their political tendencies. It really is one of the oldest tricks in the book. Demonize the opposition and you won't have to fight him on the merits of his argument. Monsters aren't allowed to discuss these things since their entire perception of the world is abnormal. I.E., you don't let the inmates run the asylum.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2010.01.12 23:23:00 - [32] Originally by: Arik VanClaw Well in my post at least, I'm implying that the quoted poster is saying conservatives or the right would not recognize the truth when they saw it and would immediately think it tainted with a liberal slant. Or perhaps he's implying that liberalism is the only truth as anything not liberal must be false. Hard to say. My comment is pointing out that this is exactly the kind of brainwashed muppet any politico would love to have on their side. A zealot who views the truth of the world through his own belief tinted glasses, or barring that assumes any who disagree must have a very skewed world view themselves, and can in no way argue without being dismissed as....wait for it....biased. It makes it impossible for anyone to denounce the opposing position when this mindset is adopted, as all arguments to the contrary are immediately rendered invalid by the listener before the speaker has had a chance to present them simply based on the value of their political tendencies. It really is one of the oldest tricks in the book. Demonize the opposition and you won't have to fight him on the merits of his argument. Monsters aren't allowed to discuss these things since their entire perception of the world is abnormal. I.E., you don't let the inmates run the asylum. Any issue will have its lunatic fringe on both sides flinging BS into the fray. Generally those groups can be safely ignored. Unfortunately the lunatic fringe is now smack in the middle of things from the right wing. Death panels and Obama as a Kenyan Manchurian Candidate leap to mind (actually have a bunch more if you want). These are utterly without merit and completely debunked. Thing is it is not the fringe hollering about that stuff. It is people in Congress. It is talking heads with heavily watched shows. It is Sarah Palin. Palin, one of the biggest death panel pushers, not only put it out there but despite it being thoroughly debunked she reiterated her belief in it. That particular one was deemed the biggest lie of 2009 by two separate media watch groups. So do tell where these people are concerned about the facts. If you have a policy difference fine. Great even. Debate the issue on its merits. That is not happening at all here. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.01.12 23:55:00 - [33] Originally by: Arik VanClaw Is this where I say in before the lock? Haha at people expecting a media outlet as big as a national news station to not have some kind of bias. Great thing about Fox is it's the only one with a conservative bias. To listen to CNN and the major network news channels you'd think Obama's presidency isn't the flop it is and it must be all Bush's fault none of his ridiculous schemes have worked. So far as I know, Fox is the only "news" channel to have successfully sued- and won - for the right to tell lies, and to fire it's employees for refusing to tell lies. Deliberately lying to "counter" a perceived bias doesn't make for any kind of balance a sane person would recognise. Fox most of all remind me of ultra-militant feminists like Andrea Dworkin who believe that anything they say and do against men is justified because society is so sexist. Whether or not those accusations and attacks are true is unimportant to these twisted fantatics, as long as there is "balance". Replace "men" with "liberals" and you have Fox. Note that I am no way saying that CNN et al are reliable or trustworthy. I'm just saying that Fox definitely *aren't.*
Slade Trillgon Endless Possibilities Inc. Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.01.13 00:05:00 - [34] Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 13/01/2010 00:06:12 As stated above, I find none of the main "News" broadcasters as reliable and/or unbiased. I came to the realization that journalism died many years ago and that none of the figure heads are journalists. They are nothing but self righteous individuals that have no problem skewing the "news" to their benefit. Fox news is the only Conservative voice and therefore even more corrupt in my mind since their is no one to even remotely keep them in check. They have a Monopoly on Conservative news and rarely are monopolies good; and definitely not in this case. About the only channels I can watch without major issues is CSPAN. CSPAN rocks! Compared to the others. Originally by: Sazkyen It's certainly a better job than mine. Better then her last also Slade Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat! ≡v≡
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.01.13 02:55:00 - [35] Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia fjkfldsa;jgk;ldsa OMG I"VE BLOWN A FUSE!!! ***. I want to move. You realize you can stop being angry at the Right, right? The Left did have a major win after all. Just because it isn't working out like you hoped is no reason to blow a blood vessel. Also you might note, that no one is preventing you from moving. There are plenty of other countries around but I guarantee you they all have their problems. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00*
Krinthe Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.01.13 04:06:00 - [36] Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia Originally by: karma militia Hey, maybe we can replace the Supreme Court with some of them bears from the circus that walk around on top of big balls and wear funny hats with the tassels. We already have that, its called the Democratic Party. A 10th of all I earn I keep for myself.
Krinthe Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.01.13 04:14:00 - [37] Originally by: Jin Nib Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia fjkfldsa;jgk;ldsa OMG I"VE BLOWN A FUSE!!! ****. I want to move. Also you might note, that no one is preventing you from moving. Not to be "one of those" peoples....but, I have to correct you there Sir... Quite the contrary. It is very difficult to leave the U.S.A. For starters, you have to get a passport. Thats $120 bucks, add $60 ontop of that if you dont feel like waiting the 4-6 weeks to get one. Then you may have to get all kinds of other documentation (for a fee) telling who you are, what your doing, where you've been, what your going to do. Then, lets say you've been to jail for whatever reason. Got caught with a doobie, didnt pay a traffic ticket, told a cop to go hump himself, whatever.....guess what, your a prisoner. You cant get a passport (legally) which means you cant leave the country. Then, if you do want to go somewhere else in the world and have managed to get a passport, its going to cost you a lot of money just to get to where it is you want to go. Its not like your going on a scenic drive down in the hill country. So, you cant exactly just "LEAVE" the country just because you want to leave. Its much MUCH harder to do than you may expect. A 10th of all I earn I keep for myself.
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.01.13 04:24:00 - [38] Originally by: Krinthe Originally by: Jin Nib Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia fjkfldsa;jgk;ldsa OMG I"VE BLOWN A FUSE!!! ***. I want to move. Also you might note, that no one is preventing you from moving. Not to be "one of those" peoples....but, I have to correct you there Sir... Quite the contrary. It is very difficult to leave the U.S.A. For starters, you have to get a passport. Thats $120 bucks, add $60 ontop of that if you dont feel like waiting the 4-6 weeks to get one. Then you may have to get all kinds of other documentation (for a fee) telling who you are, what your doing, where you've been, what your going to do. Then, lets say you've been to jail for whatever reason. Got caught with a doobie, didnt pay a traffic ticket, told a cop to go hump himself, whatever.....guess what, your a prisoner. You cant get a passport (legally) which means you cant leave the country. Then, if you do want to go somewhere else in the world and have managed to get a passport, its going to cost you a lot of money just to get to where it is you want to go. Its not like your going on a scenic drive down in the hill country. So, you cant exactly just "LEAVE" the country just because you want to leave. Its much MUCH harder to do than you may expect. Why would anyone imagine it was easy? If you want something bad enough you work for it though, you make sacrifices. Seems obvious to me. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00*
Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2010.01.13 05:06:00 - [39] Originally by: Jin Nib Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia fjkfldsa;jgk;ldsa OMG I"VE BLOWN A FUSE!!! **. I want to move. You realize you can stop being angry at the Right, right? The Left did have a major win after all. Just because it isn't working out like you hoped is no reason to blow a blood vessel. Also you might note, that no one is preventing you from moving. There are plenty of other countries around but I guarantee you they all have their problems. to the first, i'm not angry at the right. hell, until about oh... when i realized voting for gwb was a bad idea, i considered myself right. i'm one of those fiscally conserv. socially liberal ppl. i'm angry at the whole sham that is the 2 party system. yeah, democracy, i bet. we all get to vote for 1 of 2 bought and paid for crooks. to the second. no ** sherlock
Krinthe Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.01.13 05:57:00 - [40] Edited by: Krinthe on 13/01/2010 05:58:13 Edited by: Krinthe on 13/01/2010 05:57:49 @Jin Nib The way you worded your post. You said to the other poster that they can just leave if they want to. That right there, cant be done "just like that". So, to an extent, no, you can not just up and move away if you dont like how things are being run. Its more to the matter of, like it or not, learn to deal with it, cause unless your prepared to leave the country and already have a job lined up, a way to make a living, a place to live and oh, hey, what about relatives, they coming with ya or staying in the states? Most likely they are staying, so, all of that has to be thought about before you just up and leave cause we dont like how something is being run. I wasnt trying to start something with ya man, was just pointing out the fact that its not really possible to just leave. Peace man Peace.... A 10th of all I earn I keep for myself.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2010.01.13 07:36:00 - [41] Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 13/01/2010 07:37:10 Originally by: Krinthe [T]o an extent, no, you can not just up and move away if you dont like how things are being run. Its more to the matter of, like it or not, learn to deal with it, cause unless your prepared to leave the country and already have a job lined up, a way to make a living, a place to live and oh, hey, what about relatives, they coming with ya or staying in the states? Most likely they are staying, so, all of that has to be thought about before you just up and leave cause we dont like how something is being run. If you are a US citizen (and a number of other countries) if you want to up an leave you are free to do so as far as the home country is concerned. The roadblocks to doing so are mostly from the destination country you want to settle in. Try moving to Switzerland for an example of this. Getting out of the US is relatively easy. If you cannot afford the passport then I doubt you can afford the plane/boat ticket. Again, it is mostly the destination country (wherever you are traveling to/from) that will provide the hassle for you. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.01.13 07:46:00 - [42] Another funny event in the USA where Socialist tyrants battle with Fascist tyrants, each pretending that they are not tyrants but the other side is, all to give everybody some illusion of "hope and change" every 4 years as tweedle dee replaces tweedle dum.
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.01.13 08:26:00 - [43] Originally by: Krinthe I wasnt trying to start something with ya man, was just pointing out the fact that its not really possible to just leave. Peace man Peace.... My point was that a person who wants to move can. Ergo complaining about your country and then following it up with the statement "I want to move" is either silly or false. If it really bothers some one that much and they really wanted to move they would do so or be working to do so. As such when rValdeze (for instance) makes a statement like this I don't really have a problem with it because I get the impression that he really is working to moving away from the things he hates. He says something like "that's why I'm moving away" rather then "I wish I could move." Pr1ncess Alia on the other hand, makes the statement in a more wishful sense trying to garner some form of sympathy for his/her opinion rather then actually giving a truthful representation of their motives. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2010.01.13 09:06:00 - [44] Originally by: Krinthe Originally by: Jin Nib Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia fjkfldsa;jgk;ldsa OMG I"VE BLOWN A FUSE!!! **. I want to move. Also you might note, that no one is preventing you from moving. Not to be "one of those" peoples....but, I have to correct you there Sir... Quite the contrary. It is very difficult to leave the U.S.A. For starters, you have to get a passport. Thats $120 bucks, add $60 ontop of that if you dont feel like waiting the 4-6 weeks to get one. Then you may have to get all kinds of other documentation (for a fee) telling who you are, what your doing, where you've been, what your going to do. Then, lets say you've been to jail for whatever reason. Got caught with a doobie, didnt pay a traffic ticket, told a cop to go hump himself, whatever.....guess what, your a prisoner. You cant get a passport (legally) which means you cant leave the country. Then, if you do want to go somewhere else in the world and have managed to get a passport, its going to cost you a lot of money just to get to where it is you want to go. Its not like your going on a scenic drive down in the hill country. So, you cant exactly just "LEAVE" the country just because you want to leave. Its much MUCH harder to do than you may expect. Say what? If you're an ex-convict you can never get a passport? I call bull** on that one, that would mean you live in a police state. Delenda est achura.
Rolk Anderson	Posted - 2010.01.13 10:08:00 - [45] Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Another funny event in the USA where Socialist tyrants battle with Fascist tyrants, each pretending that they are not tyrants but the other side is, all to give everybody some illusion of "hope and change" every 4 years as tweedle dee replaces tweedle dum. Obama is a Socialist? Never come to Britain, you'll blow a fuse.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol HellFleet	Posted - 2010.01.13 10:38:00 - [46] Media is biased. Media includes news. www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.eohpoker.com ò Buy a GTC
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.01.13 11:43:00 - [47] Originally by: Rolk Anderson Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Another funny event in the USA where Socialist tyrants battle with Fascist tyrants, each pretending that they are not tyrants but the other side is, all to give everybody some illusion of "hope and change" every 4 years as tweedle dee replaces tweedle dum. Obama is a Socialist? Never come to Britain, you'll blow a fuse. I always find it hilarious how malformed the US perception of left/right is. Over here, Obama would qualify as extreme-right, and they are calling him a socialist.
Rolk Anderson	Posted - 2010.01.13 11:58:00 - [48] Edited by: Rolk Anderson on 13/01/2010 11:57:46 Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Rolk Anderson Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Another funny event in the USA where Socialist tyrants battle with Fascist tyrants, each pretending that they are not tyrants but the other side is, all to give everybody some illusion of "hope and change" every 4 years as tweedle dee replaces tweedle dum. Obama is a Socialist? Never come to Britain, you'll blow a fuse. I always find it hilarious how malformed the US perception of left/right is. Over here, Obama would qualify as extreme-right, and they are calling him a socialist. Or perhaps they are right and we are so corrupted by our socialist brainwashing we fail to see obama for the communist he really is.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.01.13 12:18:00 - [49] Originally by: Rolk Anderson I always find it hilarious how malformed the US perception of left/right is. Over here, Obama would qualify as extreme-right, and they are calling him a socialist. Or perhaps they are right and we are so corrupted by our socialist brainwashing we fail to see obama for the communist he really is. I was just waiting for that to come up. Remind me again, how old is the US democracy? And how many countries have comparable perceptions of left/right? The US is a clear outlier in that regard. And calling Obama a communist is McCarthy-esque and totally ******ed.
Stratio Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.01.13 12:45:00 - [50] How is the UK 'socialist' and the US is not? Both nations take taxes from the rich and give them to the poor. _____________________ For Tribe and Honour!
karma militia	Posted - 2010.01.13 13:22:00 - [51] Edited by: karma militia on 13/01/2010 13:27:32 Edited by: karma militia on 13/01/2010 13:26:05 IBTL... but i wish CCP would relax on the RL politics censorship, there are many interesting and intelligent socio-political views here. Quote: News isn't biased people. Listen to Fox, then listen to CNN, then realize the truth is somewhere in the middle of the two. ...wait, so you think CNN (aka fricken AOL Time Warner) represents a leftist view equal and opposite from Fox news's right spin? ...I got bad news for you buddy, your one of those "righties". Quote: Any issue will have its lunatic fringe on both sides flinging BS into the fray. Generally those groups can be safely ignored. Unfortunately the lunatic fringe is now smack in the middle of things from the right wing. Death panels and Obama as a Kenyan Manchurian Candidate leap to mind (actually have a bunch more if you want). These are utterly without merit and completely debunked. I think this is pretty much correct. But the internet does a pretty good job of transmuting all the bias into objective fact by averaging the motives of those reporting. But only if you use the rule that the larger something is, the more vested interest there is (and therefor more bias). Originally by: Corwain The human race is going extinct soon and you all ****ing deserve it.
karma militia	Posted - 2010.01.13 13:33:00 - [52] Originally by: Stratio How is the UK 'socialist' and the US is not? Both nations take taxes from the rich and give them to the poor. perhaps, just maybe, there are varying degree's of certain things? And perhaps it is necessary to subsidize the poor with a percentage of the profits of the rich to allow capitalism to function? Originally by: Corwain The human race is going extinct soon and you all ****ing deserve it.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2010.01.13 17:01:00 - [53] Originally by: Stratio How is the UK 'socialist' and the US is not? Both nations take taxes from the rich and give them to the poor. Wow...you need to read up on tax policy if you think it is some Robin Hood system to redistribute wealth. If anything it takes from the middle class and gives it to the rich. Remember there are lots of kinds of taxes of which income tax is only one (e.g. sales tax). When you add it all up, in the US at least, the taxes paid are actually pretty close to even (as a percentage of income) across the board. Unfortunately taking 30% from someone who is poor hurts a LOT more than taking 30% from someone who is wealthy. More, the taxes the government collects largely goes back to business. The US government accounts for something like 20% of all purchasing in the US. That includes guns and planes as well as paperclips. Then add in things like the recent $700 billion TARP program. That was nothing less than a handout to business. Look at Goldman Sachs handing $18 billion (yes billion) in bonuses this year. Where did the lion's share of that come from? The American taxpayer. So quit with the take from the rich and give to the poor shtick. It only plays well to the willfully ignorant. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Awesome Possum Imperium Signal Corps	Posted - 2010.01.13 17:21:00 - [54] Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Another funny event on EARTH where Socialist tyrants battle with Fascist tyrants, each pretending that they are not tyrants but the other side is, all to give everybody some illusion of "hope and change" every few years as tweedle dee replaces tweedle dum. I fixed your post, please don't pretend like the USA has a monopoly on corrupt politics. Greece invented it, Rome mastered it, Europe perfected it, and the USA is still learning. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.01.13 17:30:00 - [55] Edited by: FunzzeR on 13/01/2010 17:30:42 The only fair and balanced news comes from either John Stewart or Colbert. Nuff said. PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
Rolk Anderson	Posted - 2010.01.13 17:31:00 - [56] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Stratio How is the UK 'socialist' and the US is not? Both nations take taxes from the rich and give them to the poor. Wow...you need to read up on tax policy if you think it is some Robin Hood system to redistribute wealth. If anything it takes from the middle class and gives it to the rich. Remember there are lots of kinds of taxes of which income tax is only one (e.g. sales tax). When you add it all up, in the US at least, the taxes paid are actually pretty close to even (as a percentage of income) across the board. Unfortunately taking 30% from someone who is poor hurts a LOT more than taking 30% from someone who is wealthy. More, the taxes the government collects largely goes back to business. The US government accounts for something like 20% of all purchasing in the US. That includes guns and planes as well as paperclips. Then add in things like the recent $700 billion TARP program. That was nothing less than a handout to business. Look at Goldman Sachs handing $18 billion (yes billion) in bonuses this year. Where did the lion's share of that come from? The American taxpayer. So quit with the take from the rich and give to the poor shtick. It only plays well to the willfully ignorant. + The rich can afford the fancy accounting that drematically cuts tax paid. P.S. Every letter I type scrolls the page up to the top of the page meaning i can't read what the hel I am typing.. any help?
Nika Dekaia	Posted - 2010.01.13 21:41:00 - [57] Palin as an expert in politics. I heard Laa-Laa is aviable for some expert stuff, as well.
Karma Vortex Incorporated	Posted - 2010.01.13 21:46:00 - [58] Originally by: FunzzeR Edited by: FunzzeR on 13/01/2010 17:30:42 The only fair and balanced news comes from either John Stewart or Colbert. Nuff said. QFT. Fair and Balanced = make fun of everyone.
Stratio Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.01.13 23:27:00 - [59] Originally by: karma militia Originally by: Stratio How is the UK 'socialist' and the US is not? Both nations take taxes from the rich and give them to the poor. perhaps, just maybe, there are varying degree's of certain things? And perhaps it is necessary to subsidize the poor with a percentage of the profits of the rich to allow capitalism to function? Perhaps, but what does that have to do with what you quoted? All 'western' countries I know about have (what germans call) a "social market system" where business is regulated and taxes are taken. These are no doubt to varying degrees, but calling the UK 'socialist' and the US 'capitalist' is a bit silly IMO. _____________________ For Tribe and Honour!
Stratio Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.01.13 23:33:00 - [60] Edited by: Stratio on 13/01/2010 23:33:38 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Stratio How is the UK 'socialist' and the US is not? Both nations take taxes from the rich and give them to the poor. Wow...you need to read up on tax policy if you think it is some Robin Hood system to redistribute wealth. Context, context, context, I was adressing people who DO think that all those taxes go to lazy people who should be working. Sorry if I did not make that clear. Even so, some of the taxes do go to the poor, or not so wealthy, and yes more in some countries than others. _____________________ For Tribe and Honour!

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