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Viibl Triibl
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Posted - 2010.01.14 21:44:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Viibl Triibl on 14/01/2010 21:48:19 Anyone have experience with fitting ships against their bonuses? For example, using a Punisher with projectile turrets? Or a Merlin fit for speed and EW? A tracking disruptor on a Rifter? Bad examples but you get the idea.
The only two reasons I can see to do it is to a) get the slots you want and b) confuse an opponent by being unconventional.
Anyone tried it? Any famous fittings? |

Kijo Rikki
Caldari Swarm of Angry Bees
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Posted - 2010.01.14 21:51:00 -
[2]
I'd love to one day try a lolfit ewar drake. No one ever shoots the drake first, no one!
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2010.01.14 21:55:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Kijo Rikki I'd love to one day try a lolfit ewar drake. No one ever shoots the drake first, no one!
The Tier 2 Battlecruiser Testflight in E-ON magazine was advocating a fit with two of the mid slots devoted to Remote Sensor Dampeners. I think this was prior to the RSD nerf, but it's not that crazy an idea.
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Azael Lightshade
Amarr V i L e
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Posted - 2010.01.14 21:59:00 -
[4]
Rapier
Highs: Autocannons, Cloak Mids: 4xHypnos ECM Multispecs, WD, Web Lows: 2xWCS, 2xCap Power Relays (I believe but maybe Gyros)
I was one of the first to run this setup. Not many ran ECM during the changes back then and not many ran WCS's with recons either. I was lone and used the setup to solo versus many and still be able to escape with points on me. It worked wonders.
Cheetah
Highs: Autocannons, Cloak Mids: 2xName ECM Racials (Taranis/Claw), Web, Scrambler Lows: 2xCPR, Gyro II
Another first as far as I know with ECM Racials targeting Gallant/Matar intercepters and frigates. Back then, Named Racials were very good on cap with good skills and could jam the respective frigate hull ships around 80% of the time. Flying a Covert Ops Frigate always made people engage me until they got hit with ECM. Biggest downfall was the low DPS and not being able to keep people from docking/jumping at gates but other than that most Taranis/Claws/Stilleto's/Rifters could not defeat the ECM power of the Cheetah (or Buzzard).
---
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Eli Porter
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Posted - 2010.01.14 21:59:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Eli Porter on 14/01/2010 21:59:52 http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/23079-Punisher-Little-Bastard.html
This was from a while back and it might be more predictable now, the fit isn't too perfect either for escape, might want to have more agility.
The element of surprise is underused indeed, and very exciting to take part of, especially if you pull it off and take the win.
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2010.01.14 22:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Viibl Triibl Anyone have experience with fitting ships against their bonuses?
This is *normally* a terrible idea.
Quote: a Punisher with projectile turrets?
Is the standard fit. Why? Because the Punisher doesn't *really* get a bonus to lasers.
Quote: a) get the slots you want
To get slots and properties that you value - such as capless weapons (AC Punisher/Maller) or better range (Laser Myrm).
Quote: b) confuse an opponent by being unconventional
As a goal, this is generally a terrible idea. The reason that you see certain fits taking over as "FOTM" or "Standard Fits" is because they work well against a variety of other ships and fits. Normally, this happens by capitalizing on a specific ship bonus - so specialization is for the ants. And for Eve.
Originally by: Kijo Rikki I'd love to one day try a lolfit ewar drake. No one ever shoots the drake first, no one!
Back when everyone flew brick PST drakes, I flew nano damp drakes. They worked marvelously. But now you're limited to ECM (which doesn't have enough unbonused jamming strength to be useful) and tracking disruptors (which don't work against missiles). In other words... pretty poor options really. :-/
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |

Exitar Stormscion
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Posted - 2010.01.14 22:20:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Exitar Stormscion on 14/01/2010 22:21:05 [Prophecy, New Setup 2] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Tracking Disruptor II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 50W Infectious Power System Malfunction
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I Medium Projectile Burst Aerator I
Warrior II x5
Too bad it does not have 4 mid slots for two tracking disruptors.
Mortal in body Eternal in will. |

Viibl Triibl
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Posted - 2010.01.14 22:43:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Exitar Stormscion Edited by: Exitar Stormscion on 14/01/2010 22:21:05 [Prophecy, New Setup 2] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Tracking Disruptor II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 50W Infectious Power System Malfunction
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I Medium Projectile Burst Aerator I
Warrior II x5
Too bad it does not have 4 mid slots for two tracking disruptors.
How would you deal with missiles? Just tank em?
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Max Tux
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Posted - 2010.01.14 22:55:00 -
[9]
bait ferox
[Ferox, bait] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Faint Warp Disruptor I Invulnerability Field II
Light Ion Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S Light Ion Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S Light Ion Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S Light Ion Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S Light Ion Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S Light Ion Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S Small Nosferatu II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Warrior II x5
works with either crystals or slaves, sheild or armor RR, add blue pill.
let them get you down to armor with a single shield boost so they know you are booster fitted, so even if they spot ur gang warping in they will try to just break you before they run.
Works well for agressing on stations etc as well. managed to deagress and dock under fire from a carrier, 2 bs, and 2 bc's.
overloaded tank ( no implants or boosters) of 923dps.
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2010.01.14 23:07:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Max Tux bait ferox
Dual tanking is pretty full of fail. You're better off with PDUs in the lows help alleviate how hard the XL hits your cap.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |

Max Tux
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Posted - 2010.01.14 23:21:00 -
[11]
its tried and tested. We needed something that people would engage then stick around to kill even when they saw 3-4 ships coming in on directional. ok slightly situational, but for what we needed it was perfect.
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2010.01.14 23:29:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 14/01/2010 23:30:53
Originally by: Max Tux its tried and tested. We needed something that people would engage then stick around to kill even when they saw 3-4 ships coming in on directional. ok slightly situational, but for what we needed it was perfect.
I'm not saying a Ferox doesn't make good bait. I'm saying that the Ferox would be better off with more shield EHP and capacitor (to help mitigate the XL booster). Or are you saying that they had a ship scanner and somehow being failfit was part of the plan... ?
-Liang
Ed: Also, if you actually needed the plates, then you might have been better off just extender fitting it (since they obviously had enough DPS to overwhelmed your active tank). -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |

Azael Lightshade
Amarr V i L e
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Posted - 2010.01.14 23:46:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Azael Lightshade on 14/01/2010 23:50:25
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Max Tux bait ferox
Dual tanking is pretty full of fail. You're better off with PDUs in the lows help alleviate how hard the XL hits your cap.
-Liang
PDU with Cap Injector is pretty fail actually. 
The best setup for missile boats while tanking is cap injector with your shield tank. You use the cap injector so you can put BCU's in your low slots. PDU Raven will always lose to a BCU/Injector Raven. The same follow for Drakes or Ferox. ---
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Doctor Mabuse
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Posted - 2010.01.14 23:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I'm not saying a Ferox doesn't make good bait. I'm saying that the Ferox would be better off with more shield EHP and capacitor (to help mitigate the XL booster). Or are you saying that they had a ship scanner and somehow being failfit was part of the plan... ?
-Liang
Ed: Also, if you actually needed the plates, then you might have been better off just extender fitting it (since they obviously had enough DPS to overwhelmed your active tank).
I think the idea is that they overwhelm the 'false' active tank, as local spikes they stick around because the Ferox is in low shields and 'about to pop any second!' - then they hit the real tank, and the cavalry arrives on grid.
Personally I fit lasers to my Ferox simply because I got sick of racing to the primary to get in blaster range, only to find the Harbingers had finished it off and I had to race to the next primary... ------------------------------------
Who's trip-trapping on my bridge? |

Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2010.01.15 00:01:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Azael Lightshade PDU with Cap Injector is pretty fail actually. 
Have you *seen* what a XL booster without cap safeguards does to a BC capacitor? Anything to help alleviate that madness is well worth it. Also, it might have been better off replacing one of the highs with a shield gang mod. It also gave more shield hitpoints (which had resistances and was being boosted).
Quote: The best setup for missile boats while tanking is cap injector with your shield tank. You use the cap injector so you can put BCU's in your low slots. PDU Raven will always lose to a BCU/Injector Raven. The same follow for Drakes or Ferox.
The entire point was (presumably) to act as bait, not deal damage.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |

Azael Lightshade
Amarr V i L e
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Posted - 2010.01.15 00:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Azael Lightshade PDU with Cap Injector is pretty fail actually. 
Have you *seen* what a XL booster without cap safeguards does to a BC capacitor? Anything to help alleviate that madness is well worth it. Also, it might have been better off replacing one of the highs with a shield gang mod. It also gave more shield hitpoints (which had resistances and was being boosted).
Quote: The best setup for missile boats while tanking is cap injector with your shield tank. You use the cap injector so you can put BCU's in your low slots. PDU Raven will always lose to a BCU/Injector Raven. The same follow for Drakes or Ferox.
The entire point was (presumably) to act as bait, not deal damage.
-Liang
At that point when you start adding PDU's to your low slots with a cap injector then you might as well stop what you're doing and put BCU's there instead. PDU is not going to add any real value to the tank due to the slowness of the energy regain compared to the energy usage. You are better off arguing that the shield tank should be passive not active and the armor tank should be active not passive with the capt injector fitted. ---
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.01.15 00:19:00 -
[17]
Bonuses are a strong hint in the direction of what a ship is good at. 25% damage, 50% range, 25% resists... these are things that you really need to think hard about whether you want to throw them away.
And then go and think again, because you probably missed something.
That being so, I have fit 'unconventional', and will do so again. Mostly that's in scenarios where the bonus isn't doing you a lot of good - an easy example being fitting autocannons to a prophecy, which costs you a cap use bonus - but you're replacing it with capless weapons.
Similarly a Ferox - 50% range bonus on hybrids is nice, but the laser Ferox is actually quite a handy beasty, due to the relative effectiveness of pulse lasers compared with hybrid turrets - blasters are quite short range, and rails don't pack much of a punch, but a rack of scorch toting focussed medium pulses are quite handy weapons for a certain style of combat.
I've also looked at blaster or laser pilgrims as options - neut effectiveness bonuses are nice, but it's not anywhere near has handy as the neutralizer range bonus of the curse.
Another fairly classic example of where you _might_ do it is when you're fitting oversized tanks - once upon a time, Thoraxes and Mallers with frigate guns, but 1600mm plates fitted were popular. (Frigate guns, even of the right 'type' are unbonussed on a cruiser). Or perhaps the Assault launcher Drake (you don't get bonusses to those, but you do get a meaty ship with a lot of anti-light DPS).
*shrug*.
Mostly, you fit to bonus, because to do otherwise is to sacrifice a lot of capability. The times when you don't, is when that's a capability you can spare, and that _usually_ means you're doing something else entirely with the ship - fitting mining lasers or neuts on an apoc is 'throwing away' it's bonusses, but you're using the ship for a different job at that point.
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Max Tux
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Posted - 2010.01.15 00:36:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Have you *seen* what a XL booster without cap safeguards does to a BC capacitor? Anything to help alleviate that madness is well worth it. Also, it might have been better off replacing one of the highs with a shield gang mod. It also gave more shield hitpoints (which had resistances and was being boosted).
-Liang
I agree for when you need to be able to use the booster for longer PDU's might be more usefull, but it will last 2+ mins ( overloaded cap booster) which is plenty of time considering your armor buffer gives you the buffer, and your gang should be killing the target :P.
As for the gang link, i seem to remember its a rather tight fit, but if you are dropping the plate, then yes ( couldn't use gang links when this was needed)
Works well as any remote rep is effective on it :P
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.01.15 00:46:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 14/01/2010 23:30:53
Originally by: Max Tux its tried and tested. We needed something that people would engage then stick around to kill even when they saw 3-4 ships coming in on directional. ok slightly situational, but for what we needed it was perfect.
I'm not saying a Ferox doesn't make good bait. I'm saying that the Ferox would be better off with more shield EHP and capacitor (to help mitigate the XL booster). Or are you saying that they had a ship scanner and somehow being failfit was part of the plan... ?
-Liang
Ed: Also, if you actually needed the plates, then you might have been better off just extender fitting it (since they obviously had enough DPS to overwhelmed your active tank).
I think the point was more the opponents saw the ferox go into armor so they wanted to stick around to get the at that point an easy kill, and by the time they go wtfarmortank!?!?! the friendly gang is there to point/kill them. where with a pure shield buffer, ah screw it still in shields disengage.
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2010.01.15 00:54:00 -
[20]
It's really a judgement call on how valuable the bonus is to begin with and what you gain by ignoring it. Some bonuses just aren't that great. Some are too good not to use.
So to take your examples - the Punisher gets a bonus to laser cap use that basically makes lasers use the same cap as hybrids. This means you lose nothing by fitting other guns. If you fit projectiles you gain the huge cap intended for lasers and you also get a bunch of fitting back because projectiles are very easy to fit. This isn't really a waste imo. Shield tanking it would be because the resist bonus is actually pretty good.
Merlin... hmmm. This one is a bit trickier. I actually think the mid-slot bonus is pretty good (buffer tanks are ftw and it works for active tanks too). If you wanted to fit against bonus you could fit projectiles instead of blasters and actually gain a more steady DPS/range curve.
You're not losing any bonus by fitting a TD on the rifter and some mods work OK unbonused (or well enough to be worth fitting, anyway).
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Lucia Wilber
Black Lancers
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Posted - 2010.01.15 02:08:00 -
[21]
[Harbinger, PvE lolfit] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M [empty high slot]
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Tanks 438 passive DPS on the shields and inflicts 274 DPS at 12+22 range using artillery. It is slow, and it is fail, but you might be able to squeeze out L4s in it.
Here's another one [Rokh, Anti-Bonus Failfit] Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Tanks 486 DPS on armor (cap stable), deals 393 with autocannons at 3+24 range. Also slow, and also fail...might be able to do L4s, dunno.
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2010.01.15 03:17:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Azael Lightshade Edited by: Azael Lightshade on 14/01/2010 23:50:25
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Max Tux bait ferox
Dual tanking is pretty full of fail. You're better off with PDUs in the lows help alleviate how hard the XL hits your cap.
-Liang
PDU with Cap Injector is pretty fail actually. 
PDU on a shield tanking boat is never fail.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Shade Millith
International House of PWNCakes Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2010.01.15 06:05:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lucia Wilber
[Rokh, Anti-Bonus Failfit] Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Tanks 486 DPS on armor (cap stable), deals 393 with autocannons at 3+24 range. Also slow, and also fail...might be able to do L4s, dunno.
The projectiles I can see, with just a range bonus, but the shield resist bonus is WAY to nice to give up for an armor tank --------------------------------------------
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Livinglegend
A..M..W
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Posted - 2010.01.15 06:22:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Livinglegend on 15/01/2010 06:21:55 I got bored one day so i fitted out a Damnation with T2 Autocannons... Now that fit worked out great for me haha or maybe my victims just sucked... eh symantics  ------------------------
One Legend Many Legacys
I Am Legend |

Cambarus
The Compass Reloaded
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Posted - 2010.01.15 06:22:00 -
[25]
People spend so much time ignoring the domi's large hybrid bonus they tend to forget it's there >_<.
Also autocannon Prophs/Augurors/Navy Augs, as well as ubershieldtank scorps make nice bait ships. |

Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
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Posted - 2010.01.15 19:36:00 -
[26]
[Drake, gate camp support] 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Piranha 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Piranha 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Piranha 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Piranha 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Piranha 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Piranha 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Piranha Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers
10MN MicroWarpdrive I Remote Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Remote Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Remote Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Remote Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Remote Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nanomembrane II Energized Adaptive Nanomembrane II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I
-- He said "The President is near."
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2010.01.15 20:48:00 -
[27]
Regularly ignored ship bonuses: Active Tanking (especially armor) Laser Cap Usage
Recon ships tend to get shield tanked, even the armor races. Some Gallente ships can be shield tanked, myrm, brutix, hype.
Thats about it. Although I guess I should point out recons sometimes don't fit the 'crappy' racial ewar. Target painters, tracking disruptors, sensor damps, all these things are sort of secondary to the recons main ewar and when they overlap slots with the main ewar and tank they sometimes get ignored. The standard rapier fit is 2x web +warp disruptor + mwd and 2x LSE. It doesn't include any target painters.
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NyteTyger
Gallente NiteSun Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.01.15 21:09:00 -
[28]
I've seen a shield tank Laser Myrm do pretty well. __________________________________________
It's a do or die universe, so you better damn well choose between one or the other. |

price checkinho
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Posted - 2010.01.15 21:16:00 -
[29]
Min maxers and metagamers are sheep.
I've been in chat winning at missions with people scrutinizing my setup saying it was crap etc etc.
If you are doing Pve and winning your setup is great. If you are doing pvp and not losing your setup is great. If you are pvping with many less SP than your foe you will likely lose no matter what your setup, and vice versa.
No matter what setup you use or post people will scrutinize it.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.15 21:16:00 -
[30]
[Brutix, 1K] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Warp Scrambler II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Ancillary Current Router I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I
Hammerhead II x5
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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