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Hellanna	Posted - 2010.01.16 14:38:00 - [1] ...because I don't play the first couple hours after DT because gasp I have a job. When I get home, all the high ends from the belts are gone. When is this unbelievably stupid game mechanic going to be changed ccp.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.16 14:51:00 - [2] move to a different system?
Hellanna	Posted - 2010.01.16 14:56:00 - [3] Originally by: darius mclever move to a different system? Or CCP could just make it fair for all and decrease the initial spawn of high ends and have them respawn every 6 hours instead of all at once?
James Tritanius	Posted - 2010.01.16 17:04:00 - [4] No, because that will require massive amount of manhours to code and implement. An easier solution is to move to a different system. Some systems that I usually frequent are full of high-end minerals from downtime to downtime. They are usually dead-end systems with 10+ asteroid belts (surprisingly, only a few jumps from Jita). Find them, exploit them.
Hellanna	Posted - 2010.01.16 17:32:00 - [5] Originally by: James Tritanius No, because that will require massive amount of manhours to code and implement. An easier solution is to move to a different system. Some systems that I usually frequent are full of high-end minerals from downtime to downtime. They are usually dead-end systems with 10+ asteroid belts (surprisingly, only a few jumps from Jita). Find them, exploit them. Because they don't already do this with Anoms, right? None of this has anything to do with the fact that those who have access to game time right after DT have a much greater isk income. They absolutely could make the belts like anoms and it would not require near as much time as you think it would. High ends in Empire? Hahaha. What do you consider "high end"? Jaspet? Get a clue.
Sig Sour	Posted - 2010.01.16 17:54:00 - [6] Downtime is really good for US time zone PVP, but horrible for US timezone pve. Maybe you could drop some probes out and scan for some high sec grav sites. I think they should make more of them for you high sec miners. But I also think they should nerf the crap out of the respawn time on asteroid belts.
Grarr Dexx Amarr GK inc. Panda Team	Posted - 2010.01.16 19:10:00 - [7] Baww baww baww drop your sub if you're so angry about it. CCP is an Icelandic corporation, and they do their work GASP during regular work hours. ___
Hellanna	Posted - 2010.01.16 19:11:00 - [8] Originally by: Sig Sour Downtime is really good for US time zone PVP, but horrible for US timezone pve. Maybe you could drop some probes out and scan for some high sec grav sites. I think they should make more of them for you high sec miners. But I also think they should nerf the crap out of the respawn time on asteroid belts. This is not about high sec. This is about improving the ore spawn system on high end ores so everyone has a more equal chance of getting them instead of those who log in the second the server comes up every day for the first three hours.
DuKackBoon	Posted - 2010.01.16 19:18:00 - [9] EVE is a competetive game. If you get no ores, you got beaten. Live with it.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.16 19:22:00 - [10] is that the same pseudo whine "i dont get any scannable ded plexes at us prime time"? because thats total bllsht. i get plenty of that.
mundus123	Posted - 2010.01.16 23:45:00 - [11] No, first off highsec should not have highend ores. Why because its highsec and suppost to already have been tapped out. So go to null and low sec, theres always always always highend ore out there. I dont care yoru a carebear, those that do corps out of hgihsec shoudl be rewarded with more isk. O and if you really want go to wh's, bloody dream land there.
Octoven	Posted - 2010.01.17 03:12:00 - [12] Reduce the amount of ore by a factor of 4 and have it respawn every 6 hours so that in the end there is the same amount of ore but spread out over the whole day. People who live on the west coast of the US really get ** on. For those of you saying QQ get over it, yea well lets have you live in the US and be a miner and see how frustrating it is to you. Will it take huge amount of man hours....perhaps but in my opinion thats what we are paying them for isnt it? Isn't the customer ALWAYS RIGHT? CCP start listening to your USA customer base or you could be in store for losing customers. I've gotten online many times after a night shift only to find systems within a 10 jump radius are empty. I shouldn't have to pick up base and move just because ccp wants everything to happen in one hour. I could care less if they are in Iceland or China, having an international customer base means they need to think of the other 23 time zones when they think this ** up.
Helio Amor	Posted - 2010.01.17 03:17:00 - [13] Originally by: DuKackBoon EVE is a competetive game. If you get no ores, you got beaten. Live with it. Competition is not competition when you must get up at 3AM or stay home from your job to compete now is it? Real life comes first and betting most people commenting negatively on this are probably European then I guess you would say get over it wouldn't you if the mining comes out on your timetable
Hellanna	Posted - 2010.01.17 03:32:00 - [14] I'm not talking about high sec! I am talking about the Dominion Spawn system in 0.0! The roids in the belts need to be much smaller and the belts need to respawn when completed so this gives EVERYONE a fair amount of high end minerals instead of just those who get on when the server comes up after DT for the first couple hours!
mundus123	Posted - 2010.01.17 04:32:00 - [15] First off, Octoven, the customer is an idiot most the time and almost is never right. So no the customer is not always right. But if yoru beaf is with dominion and the hidden belts, develop the industry index in another system!
Apon Nighthawk	Posted - 2010.01.17 05:32:00 - [16] Originally by: Hellanna I'm not talking about high sec! I am talking about the Dominion Spawn system in 0.0! The roids in the belts need to be much smaller and the belts need to respawn when completed so this gives EVERYONE a fair amount of high end minerals instead of just those who get on when the server comes up after DT for the first couple hours! Respawn when it's completed? So once someone finishes it they can do it again? Stop complaining about how everyone needs a fair amount of something. Life isn't always fair and you have to deal with it. You agreed to the EULA and when you did you gave CCP the power to do whatever they wanted just about without having to care about you alone. If you get podded when your mining are you going to start complaining that you need the belt to yourself now?
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2010.01.17 10:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Apon Nighthawk Stop complaining about how everyone needs a fair amount of something. Life isn't always fair and you have to deal with it. I do wish people would stop peddling this nonsense. There is such a huge gulf of difference between fair outcome and fair availability of outcome (one is actual results, the other is probability) - learn the difference when applied to a game! Hypothetically: Example of fair outcome: I went to Rancer and got podded. I chose to do something dangerous, and was rewarded for my choice. Entirely reasonable. Example of unfair outcome: I was minding my own business in a high-sec belt and got suicided. This is unfair! Entirely reasonable, just unfortunate. Example of fair availability: Anyone can skill for a Hulk if they so choose. They are not denied the opportunity simply because they were born on the wrong day or of the wrong 'class' or the wrong character age. Entirely reasonable. Example of unfair availability: (Remember, hypothetically) Someone finds a moon in W-space, starts moon mining and sets up a deathstar POS that effectively can't be taken without dreadnaughts, in a wormhole that doesn't allow them in. Unreasonable because the confluence of (hypothetical) game rules creates a state where the person holds an unreasonable advantage. Careful readers will note that the last one isn't allowed by the real game rules, because CCP understand the above principles. Good game design is about giving everyone the same opportunities and chances, and letting their choices decide whether they are treated fairly, unfairly, well or badly. Amusing as it would be to say to the above poster that they can't train for a battleship because they joined the game on the wrong day and were handed a particular set of genetic traits (like real life), it wouldn't make for a fun game overall. Downtime spawning is not a fair mechanism because it skews the availability in favour of those around just after downtime. This is a common complaint levied at Faction Warfare's plex spawning for example. It's entirely reasonable to complain about the same thing for 0.0 spawns. That said, CCP knows about this and really can't do much about it at the moment. They currently have nothing in place that allows stuff to 'appear' midway through a running session, so they currently do all of that during downtime (see discussions on FW, and the discussion on Hive Ships). In the mean time, perhaps given that we're talking about 0.0, you ought to be guarding your space and thus preventing others taking stuff, at any time? ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
Nika Dekaia	Posted - 2010.01.17 11:11:00 - [18] Originally by: Helio Amor Originally by: DuKackBoon EVE is a competetive game. If you get no ores, you got beaten. Live with it. Competition is not competition when you must get up at 3AM or stay home from your job to compete now is it? Real life comes first and betting most people commenting negatively on this are probably European then I guess you would say get over it wouldn't you if the mining comes out on your timetable DT happens in the middle of the european's workday. Other than that: yes, more dynamic resource respawn (not just ore) would be nice, if possible to implement.
Hellanna	Posted - 2010.01.17 15:31:00 - [19] Originally by: Apon Nighthawk Originally by: Hellanna I'm not talking about high sec! I am talking about the Dominion Spawn system in 0.0! The roids in the belts need to be much smaller and the belts need to respawn when completed so this gives EVERYONE a fair amount of high end minerals instead of just those who get on when the server comes up after DT for the first couple hours! Respawn when it's completed? So once someone finishes it they can do it again? Stop complaining about how everyone needs a fair amount of something. Life isn't always fair and you have to deal with it. You agreed to the EULA and when you did you gave CCP the power to do whatever they wanted just about without having to care about you alone. If you get podded when your mining are you going to start complaining that you need the belt to yourself now? No one wants to hear you talk about "life isn't fair" bull**. EVE isn't life. It's a **ing game people pay for to have fun. The entire point of making them smaller is so that they respawn. There are 40k arknor roids in these belts. They can be slashed down to 5k. Those in the morning are still mining away happily, cept they have to rescan for the new belt when they clear the ones they have. When they are done, they stop mining. Later, when they next time zone starts logging in, they will still be able to mine high ends instead of only those who get on a couple hours after DT and completely clean the high ends out. Getting podded while mining has absolutely nothing to do with anything in this post, and I honestly couldn't give a crap about being podded while mining because that means I did something wrong. Get off your high horse you ass.
Ramon Wilco Caldari Psycho Corp	Posted - 2010.01.17 16:37:00 - [20] And so ? I live in france, and every day off i have, i have to wait 1 hour (sometimes more) to play, cause there is a DT... and i m not complaining. The time i cant play eve, i do something else,but when you play 6 hour, i just have 5 cause of DT... its the life... And by the way, if you just find empty belts... just move away, or go in an international corp with teammate from the entire world, u'll have a 23 H possibility to ruin belts... And the meaning of this thread is... i'm in a small corp, i cant empty a belt in 3 hours, so i prefer the belt to respawn and have less minerals, that way we could just exploit the same belt everytime and get great money... stop thinking about yourself, the actual system is not so bad, and your solution will encourage miners to stay in little corps, instead of beeing part of a great miner corp. What's the use of capital mining ships with a huge fleet of hulk if you have to change of belt every 30 minutes cause you reduces the ammount of ore by belt??? Fear your incomprehension, but love the differences. Ramon Wilco
Hellanna	Posted - 2010.01.17 16:51:00 - [21] Originally by: Ramon Wilco And so ? I live in france, and every day off i have, i have to wait 1 hour (sometimes more) to play, cause there is a DT... and i m not complaining. The time i cant play eve, i do something else,but when you play 6 hour, i just have 5 cause of DT... its the life... And by the way, if you just find empty belts... just move away, or go in an international corp with teammate from the entire world, u'll have a 23 H possibility to ruin belts... And the meaning of this thread is... i'm in a small corp, i cant empty a belt in 3 hours, so i prefer the belt to respawn and have less minerals, that way we could just exploit the same belt everytime and get great money... stop thinking about yourself, the actual system is not so bad, and your solution will encourage miners to stay in little corps, instead of beeing part of a great miner corp. What's the use of capital mining ships with a huge fleet of hulk if you have to change of belt every 30 minutes cause you reduces the ammount of ore by belt??? LOL. If only you had a clue. You would be making about the same amount of money as you currently do, a little less probably do to having to clear the lower end minerals as well as the higher ones or the belt won't respawn and scanning the new ones down, which is absolutely fair, seeing as thos in the next TZ would have to do the exact same thing. YOU are the one thinking about yourself only. Your 5 hours of mining makes probably around 10x the amount of money someone makes in 6h mining low end simply because of how out dated and stupid the current ore spawning system is. It needs to be changed to suit all players, not just a single damned TZ a couple hours after DT and then screwing everyone else.
Ramon Wilco Caldari Psycho Corp	Posted - 2010.01.17 17:14:00 - [22] lol First, i'm not a miner... snd, im not the one who first thinking about the place i lived (you said something about west american coast?) I just want to say that if you make belt with less minerals, then the huge Mining op will be penalising, cause they were forced to change belt more often. 0.0 belts are very rich, and i dont think all 0.0 belts are exploited... So, if you wanna have a belt full 10 hours after DT, just move in any other system, you'll find full belt without any miner... Eve space is really big, just learn to move deeper, you'll get more profit, thats all. Fear your incomprehension, but love the differences. Ramon Wilco
Cedims	Posted - 2010.01.17 17:22:00 - [23] I agree with OP. The reboot has too many things associated to it. Which, considering that everyone playing EVE around the planet pay for it, as a service to have fun. It's not a free game. "I wouldn't pay a hooker as much at the end of a 16 hour shift, as I would as first customer of the shift." (lmao, just kidding, people, and yes, it was a joke, live with it) No seriously, the reboot associated activities need to be looked at to balance the globality of EVE, in my opinion. Good post!
Valandril Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.01.17 17:24:00 - [24] Contract the stuff to me on your way out
Apon Nighthawk	Posted - 2010.01.17 17:49:00 - [25] Originally by: Cedims I agree with OP. The reboot has too many things associated to it. Which, considering that everyone playing EVE around the planet pay for it, as a service to have fun. It's not a free game. "I wouldn't pay a hooker as much at the end of a 16 hour shift, as I would as first customer of the shift." (lmao, just kidding, people, and yes, it was a joke, live with it) No seriously, the reboot associated activities need to be looked at to balance the globality of EVE, in my opinion. Good post! There are somethings they have to do during down time, there is to much room for errors to start respawning asteroids every so often. What if someone was MWD around the belt and the computer said "Oh look no one is here" and then places it there. By the time you get the signal it can appear right on top of you. And anyways CCP has already looked at this during a meeting they had about downtime a while ago. There conclusion was pretty much speed it up and don't add any new features that require the use of downtime. They have reduced the downtime for normal things to 15 minutes. Unless they need to do anything else it is rather quick now.
Ryhss Caldari The Templar Navy SRS.	Posted - 2010.01.17 20:19:00 - [26] Originally by: James Tritanius No, because that will require massive amount of manhours to code and implement. An easier solution is to move to a different system. Some systems that I usually frequent are full of high-end minerals from downtime to downtime. They are usually dead-end systems with 10+ asteroid belts (surprisingly, only a few jumps from Jita). Find them, exploit them. This. Billy Corgan is dating Jessica Simpson, my cousin has dubbed the celeb couple "Smashing Dumbkins".
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.01.17 20:57:00 - [27] Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 17/01/2010 21:00:26 Originally by: DuKackBoon EVE is a competetive game. If you get no ores, you got beaten. Live with it. Nomen est Omen? Get out of this forum please if all you want is to flame. Oh, and post with your main you competitive KackBoon ^^. @topic: I also agree with the OP, although I am not a miner. The game mechanics could be a bit more sophisticated (or just plain random?) and less predictable. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"
Cedims	Posted - 2010.01.17 21:12:00 - [28] Originally by: Apon Nighthawk There are somethings they have to do during down time, there is to much room for errors to start respawning asteroids every so often. What if someone was MWD around the belt and the computer said "Oh look no one is here" and then places it there. By the time you get the signal it can appear right on top of you. And anyways CCP has already looked at this during a meeting they had about downtime a while ago. There conclusion was pretty much speed it up and don't add any new features that require the use of downtime. They have reduced the downtime for normal things to 15 minutes. Unless they need to do anything else it is rather quick now. The issue wasn't the TIME of downtime, but related operations. And, the server knows exactly where everyone is, so there's nothing appearing "right on top of you". Also, noone is asking CCP to add anything to downtime, but REMOVE from downtime. If that meeting took place, they ought to be happy to hear about this.
Apon Nighthawk	Posted - 2010.01.17 21:41:00 - [29] Originally by: Cedims Originally by: Apon Nighthawk There are somethings they have to do during down time, there is to much room for errors to start respawning asteroids every so often. What if someone was MWD around the belt and the computer said "Oh look no one is here" and then places it there. By the time you get the signal it can appear right on top of you. And anyways CCP has already looked at this during a meeting they had about downtime a while ago. There conclusion was pretty much speed it up and don't add any new features that require the use of downtime. They have reduced the downtime for normal things to 15 minutes. Unless they need to do anything else it is rather quick now. The issue wasn't the TIME of downtime, but related operations. And, the server knows exactly where everyone is, so there's nothing appearing "right on top of you". Also, noone is asking CCP to add anything to downtime, but REMOVE from downtime. If that meeting took place, they ought to be happy to hear about this. The server knows where everyone is, it doesn't know where you going to be in 10 seconds by the time you get the signal that an asteroid spawns at some location. It takes time to put the pieces together and make it viable. Has to make some changes to the database, has to read from the database, has to give it unique IDs, has to log it down, etc. etc. You can't just go about spawning asteroids based off of where everyone is.
James Tritanius	Posted - 2010.01.17 21:49:00 - [30] Let's be realistic. If this gets implemented, we'd get five 10 minute down times spread across the entire day just to renew roid fields and plexes, with a 1 hour down time at its usual time.

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