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Herpes Sweatrash	Posted - 2010.01.26 22:13:00 - [91] If you think 800-1000 isk per lp is the average I think you should try investigate some more profitable items from your lp store and don't sell your implants/faction ammo/etc to buy orders.
Liang Nuren No Salvation War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.01.26 22:41:00 - [92] Originally by: Herpes Sweatrash If you think 800-1000 isk per lp is the average I think you should try investigate some more profitable items from your lp store and don't sell your implants/faction ammo/etc to buy orders. Hey stop ruining my gig where I sell my LP at 2200+ ISK/LP and buy his at 550! -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Ydra Ko'Zyn	Posted - 2010.01.27 04:18:00 - [93] I would say the average is probably somewhere around 800-1500 per/lp. For those that say people make a lot more I would ask where are you getting your numbers from? If everyone was selling that magic item that returns double that then I highly doubt you would getting those numbers, and probably why you don't say what the item is.
Sturmwolke	Posted - 2010.01.27 04:35:00 - [94] You're not researching hard enough. One example, the faction ammo market is highly competitive. Being highly competitive, you either will need to sell cheap in hubs or sell at a fair profit in the fringes. For the latter, unfortunately, sales turnover can be slow to very slow to almost static depending on the locations. Therefore, find a good item, see it's competitiveness (basing on the isk/LP at hubs) and find out if you could get better sell prices elsewhere without costing you arms & legs in transport time.
Liang Nuren No Salvation War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.01.27 04:42:00 - [95] Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn I would say the average is probably somewhere around 800-1500 per/lp. For those that say people make a lot more I would ask where are you getting your numbers from? If everyone was selling that magic item that returns double that then I highly doubt you would getting those numbers, and probably why you don't say what the item is. This is correct, depending on the LP store you're working with. The problem is that you either haven't done enough research or you are missioning for the wrong corp. :) -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Kerfira	Posted - 2010.01.27 08:58:00 - [96] Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn I would say the average is probably somewhere around 800-1500 per/lp. For those that say people make a lot more I would ask where are you getting your numbers from? If everyone was selling that magic item that returns double that then I highly doubt you would getting those numbers, and probably why you don't say what the item is. And why on earth are you selling the average items? Do like the rest of us, research what the different corps have to offer, look at the individual items in their stores, and pick the best ones! It's not really rocket science.... If you do missions for the 'popular' corps, it's no surprise you get low ISK/LP prices since the market for their items are flooded... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Ydra Ko'Zyn	Posted - 2010.01.27 11:27:00 - [97] No you're 100% correct. I do missions for Ammatar Navy and their LP store isn't anything special. Yes it isn't rocket science, but for some of us time is the limiting factor.
Carniflex StarHunt Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.27 12:06:00 - [98] You can also get pretty good isk/LP on the 'common' LP store items (especially ammunition) in the 0.0 areas. For example imperial navy crystals sell rather well in Stain missionrunning hubs. The transport is not dangerous either if you are part of the stainblob and keep an eye out for burn eden cyno alts so you don't get DD'd by titan driveby. It is ofc more like trading than cashing in the LP, but if you take stain prices as the base of your calculation the isk/LP ratio can be quite impressive.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.01.27 12:39:00 - [99] Originally by: Carniflex You can also get pretty good isk/LP on the 'common' LP store items (especially ammunition) in the 0.0 areas. For example imperial navy crystals sell rather well in Stain missionrunning hubs. The transport is not dangerous either if you are part of the stainblob and keep an eye out for burn eden cyno alts so you don't get DD'd by titan driveby. It is ofc more like trading than cashing in the LP, but if you take stain prices as the base of your calculation the isk/LP ratio can be quite impressive. TBH the effort to get to 0.0 and sell is quite above what a hi sec 'bear will want to do. Moreover, since I could buy trivial GSCs @250k a piece and resell them @4.5M exactly in Stain (in the "contested systems" under Bricks), I think at this point it become much less risky (and the goods are far cheaper in case of loss) to just to stick to such common items. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Cearain Caldari ReSlavers	Posted - 2010.01.27 14:48:00 - [100] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Cearain Until the money is in your wallet you did not make that much money. Missioning yields allot of lp, loot, and salvage that you then have to haul around and play the market with. These calcaluations pretend that takes no time. When you start to build that time in you will see missioning is a decent way to make money but not overpowered. Just because you chose to do stuff inefficiently doesn't mean the rest of us have to.... ... It doesn't matter what I do. What matters is how the op is calculating his income. He is calculating his income based on jita sell prices for the loot. But he is not calculating any time to haul and sell the stuff. If you are going to take the lowest sell price of jita of all your loot - which this calcualtion does - then you need to calculate the time spent hauling and readjusting your prices. If you just reprocess it and dump it at your mission station at the highest buy price then I agree the time is less. But the money is much less. You are saying you do something different than what the op says he does. If you try to actually sell that stuff - including the salvage - at the lowest sell price at your mission station you will be waiting a long time and spending time messing with the market. What you do is different than the calculations here. You say you only sell a "few" meta 4 items the rest gets recycled. How much time did you spend figuring this out? How much time do you spend trying to look at different contracts researching what to by in the lp store? If you don't count this time you are not getting an accurate figure of how much you make/hour. For example if I shoot rats in null sec I instatntly get the bounties. I may pick up some choice items to sell on contract as well. But I can just check that item or simply put it up for auction. I don't need to spend any time researching what to buy at an lp store or whether I should reprocess this or that item. We see allot of people saying those who get lower returns on there lp need to do more research. They are given a link that has has a database pages and pages of hundreds of different items. Of course that databse doesn't say what the prices are. You have to go into the contracts for each of the prices and then calculate the return figure out how much the tags and other items cost etc. This time needs to be accounted for. But its not in any of these isk/hour calculations. Add to the fact that this is extremely tedious work and you start to see that high sec mission running isn't really all that great. I'm not saying its bad, but its not exactly easy money either. Calculate all the time the average mission runner spends trying to get the most isk for their time and I think you will find your isk/hour figures drop.
Kerfira	Posted - 2010.01.27 15:25:00 - [101] Originally by: Cearain Calculate all the time the average mission runner spends trying to get the most isk for their time and I think you will find your isk/hour figures drop. For the 'average' mission runner, probably. For anyone with even a small amount of brain, it is a negligible amount of time.... Note that for both the OP and me in my thread, we both calculated loot by mineral value. Any extra money gained from sorting items is profit from the SORTING, not the mission as we're not including that extra money in our averages. The mission averages stated are the lowest POSSIBLE profit with the least amount of work (ie. basically setting up sell contracts for the minerals & rig components). Forget about hauling stuff.... It's generally not needed in high-sec EVE as long as you're willing to wait longer for the sell.... I've not yet set any minerals or rig components up on 90 day sells that hasn't sold within that period (and this is without me adjusting the order).... You're by far overestimating the time used (unless you invent a large number of unnecessary steps).... It really IS negligible.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Cearain Caldari ReSlavers	Posted - 2010.01.27 16:04:00 - [102] The op does not say he uses the jita sell price of the minerals. He just says the loot. In your calculations are you reprocessing meta 4 stuff? When I put my salvage up for sale in black rise it tends to sit for a very long time. I usually would have to cancel about half the orders before it sold sold becasue I do not have allot of trade skills. I had to move all the crap to jita if I wanted to really get the stuff moved without hassling around with the market. Moving loot and salvage does not take a negligible amount of time if you want to get the jita sale price for it. It does take a negligible amount of time if you just dump it in your mission station for the highest buy bid. But neither you or the op calculate that. It doesn't take brains to sift through hundreds of lp store items and compare the prices in contracts. It takes time.
Herpes Sweatrash	Posted - 2010.01.27 16:18:00 - [103] I used to mission in Sasoutikh which is like 20-25 jumps from Jita iirc. Took all of half an hour to autopilot a tanked cruiser to Jita and back full of salvage. On the return trip you can bring all the tags you got from the buy orders you have at Jita on a trade alt which takes like 1 day training for more trade slots than missioner will ever need. For myself I am not so anal about mission loot, I have general idea of what is worth some isk...rest I reprocess. Make some cruise missile, rest I turn into pvp ships. It is very easy to setup courier contract and someone will move your stuff to Jita or wherever if you are willing to make it worth their time/effort.
Kerfira	Posted - 2010.01.27 16:52:00 - [104] Edited by: Kerfira on 27/01/2010 16:53:06 Originally by: Cearain The op does not say he uses the jita sell price of the minerals. He just says the loot. In your calculations are you reprocessing meta 4 stuff? Yes... Originally by: Cearain It does take a negligible amount of time if you just dump it in your mission station for the highest buy bid. But neither you or the op calculate that. I put it up at the lowest sell price, and it does sell eventually.... I can even usually sell higher than Jita for minerals... Originally by: Cearain It doesn't take brains to sift through hundreds of lp store items and compare the prices in contracts. It takes time. Not really.... More than 90% you can disregard immediately (this includes everything offered by the popular mission corps). The only ones really left are super-unique ones (like Sisters stuff), items used by mission runners, and the few useful implants.... It boils down to a very small list, and once done, it's done until CCP changes the rules somehow (how items work, game mechanics, store contents, etc.).... You're still hugely exaggerating the time it takes... Once you're up and going, you don't spend any significant time on all that... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.01.27 17:24:00 - [105] oh noes I'm reading the forums and not running a mission MINUS ISK PER HOUR!!!
Cearain Caldari ReSlavers	Posted - 2010.01.27 17:37:00 - [106] It sounds like you have a decent way of doing things. If you do your research get some money to invest in what you need then you can make decent money in eve. Whether this be through running missions or doing trade or wormholes etc. The thing is many people often look for a change of pace from time to time. So by the time you can fly that golem and have those perfect reprocessing and trade skills, researched all the lp items and sale prices of meta 3 and 4 items... well you may not want to mission anymore. : ) Again I'm not saying its bad money but if you want to do pvp and train things other than social skills, trade skills, missile skills, and scrap metal processing - its not cake. You may be able to fit allot of salvage in a cruiser cargo but you wont fit all the reprocessed minerals. 1 day trade alt? What do you train in one day? I guess what I'm saying is yes there are people who after 6 months of research, skill training, trial and error, and general learning about missions can make a decent amount of money. But lets not pretend that research and learning about how to maximize income from missions is just common sense that soemone who never heard of eve would know. Its not. Its information that people who spent time learning and researching know. None of that time is calculated in here. Hell even the time it takes to get a top notch level four agent and the logistics of moving your stuff from one station to another is time consuming and boring. Does the agent that you finally can get missions from always give a missions a system away? Bummer lets load all the crap back up and go to another agent. What many of these "isk per hour" calculations do is say once you have completed all this preliminary work, done the standings grinds, found out the best lp returns, trained the right skills and are now doing the creme de le creme of mission running then... assuming you have not grown tired missioning.... you can make 30 or 40 or 50 (whatever) mill isk per hour. Where as it sounds like in null sec you get in just about any old ship shoot some rats and the money just appears in your wallet. Also, I suppose no one here ever lost a ship doing missions.
Irdia Freelancer	Posted - 2010.01.27 18:01:00 - [107] Edited by: Irdia Freelancer on 27/01/2010 18:05:31 Lvl 4 missions aren't exactly hard so once have learned the lvl 4 missions you shouldn't lose ships. May be exceptions where your chatting to someone else and not watching what your ship is doing but that is in-attention lost the ship not really mission running. Eg I've lost a domi in WC4 1st pocket as my domi had cargo expanders in the lows (it was the loot/salv ship, 2nd char was finishing its mission ready to come do pocket 2/3 while the domi collected the loot/salv off the 1st pocket) and was supposed to stop a few km past the gate, drop sentry drones and kill all the ships to unlock the gate without taking a scratch. With chatting and doing the other mission I didn't notice till the ship was almost out of armor so scratch one domi. An experienced missions runner who knows the mission can take almost any mission and run it solo without ship loss even with a 14 day old char so the lvl 4's are not very hard once you learn to run lvl 4's. If you run low sec then the risk is from other players more than the mission, ie not really a mission risk but other player risk. 6 months research? A new player can hit the right targets with a couple of hours research if they so choose. Many players have given very good advice in what to look for in your research what lp to get and an enquiring type will be able to take that advice and find out for themselves in an hour or two. Players that want everything spelled out for them without doing any reasearch at all, now they may spend 6 months looking and still not find stuff.
Liang Nuren No Salvation War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.01.27 18:04:00 - [108] Originally by: Cearain You say you only sell a "few" meta 4 items the rest gets recycled. How much time did you spend figuring this out? How much time do you spend trying to look at different contracts researching what to by in the lp store? If you don't count this time you are not getting an accurate figure of how much you make/hour. I spent the time that it took me to recognize a module I'd fit to one of my PVP ships. I also keep an eye out for meta 4 guns. Here's the basic idea: - Put everything in hanger into "Mission Gear" station container - Drag everything from "Random ***" container to main hanger. - Remove T2 and faction items (pay close attention when in the "Torpedo" and "Cruise Missile" sections). Move to "Locker" or "Mission Gear". - Move cap booster 800s back to the "Mission Gear" station container. - Move obvious PVP loot to locker (if you miss something it's not the end of the world) - Move meta 4 guns to "Haul To Market" container - Highlight everything above Station Container, reprocess. Do it again for everything below. - Stack items, record mineral amounts (if attempting to calculate ISK/hr), and drag to Industry station container. - Pull everything from Mission Gear into main hanger It's a one pass process that's almost guaranteed to take < 5 minutes no matter how much loot you have collected. Everything after that is better time better looked at as time spent on industry stuff (like turning those minerals into Armageddons). Fortunately, you can focus on industry stuff and inputting numbers into spreadsheets when you're dog tired and don't feel like focusing on anything. WRT looking at contracts and such - that seems like it's time better attributed to your market alt - and additionally it's largely* a one time cost. Basically the idea here is that I can convert my LP at 600 ISK/lp (super common fast selling items) - 4500 ISK/lp (super rare slow selling items). The readily agreed upon figure for what someone can get with fairly minimal effort is 1500 ISK/lp - so anything that you get in excess of that is something that can be attributed to your market alt. This is why we effectively have "standards" for comparing your ISK/hr: - 1500 ISK/lp - Base mineral price in loot - Mission Reward - Mission Bonus - Rat Bounty/20 mins And if you're going to complain about my use of alts, then does that mean that I get to include 2400 ISK/lp, and the various market bull** I pull with the minerals gathered from missions? I bet I easily exceed 100M ISK/hr that way... -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum *** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.01.27 18:18:00 - [109] so you go to school and work a ****ty job making minimum wage, you then graduate and get a job that pays 20 an hour. your income now is 20 and hour and not some zombie composite of your two wages. likewise the time I spent learning the game and flying a torp cnr 2 years ago has no effects on the current isk/hour I make.
Tom Peeping	Posted - 2010.01.27 18:33:00 - [110] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Cearain Until the money is in your wallet you did not make that much money. Missioning yields allot of lp, loot, and salvage that you then have to haul around and play the market with. These calcaluations pretend that takes no time. When you start to build that time in you will see missioning is a decent way to make money but not overpowered. Just because you chose to do stuff inefficiently doesn't mean the rest of us have to.... Why should one waste time hauling, and playing the market? Those are not bringing in enough money to make it worthwhile! I personally get rid of loot etc. a couple of times per year.... There are a few meta-4's that're worth selling by themselves, the rest gets recycled into minerals (in my mission station). I then either put those up for sale there as they are, or build battleships and sell those. The few items worth something gets put up for sale where I am. Rig components? Same story, though I rarely produce rigs but just sell the stuff. I may have to correct a few of the orders over the next 90 days, but mostly things just sell on their own. That leaves LP, where I have buy orders for the tags and other materials used. Selling the produced items is done on contracts, many times from my mission station, or sometime when I happen to go to Jita anyway. All in all, maybe 15-30 minutes spent every half year, where I've been spending maybe 200 hours doing missions.... It doesn't add up to much of a percentage.... What you're mentioning is negligible..... Just for a different viewpoint... from my own experience it's not negligible at all. I do understand that it's negligible from how you are playing the game, but my own experience has been that time spent in this area represents a dramatic effect on income percentages. You may recall that this was one of the areas where I took issue with your methodology in your last thread. That said... I'll say it again... different people can have different experiences doing the same tasks. It happens all the time.... so it's not too surprising it's happening here. I just wouldn't write this subject off the way that you do by calling it "negligible" just because it hasn't been significant to you personally. On several occasions, you've criticized people for choosing to play the game inefficiently. This would be an area where the same argument could be tossed back into your court.... but who knows... different results with similar tasks and methodologies really DO happen sometimes.
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.01.27 18:35:00 - [111] This topic is very interesting, and I tried to follow all of it. I'd like to say though, all comments about inefficiency aside, Garbad probably is producing the results of the average EVE mission runner. Us regular posters are a small portion of the population, and we're given to mix/maxing and theory crafting all over the place. I notice a tendency of posters to present the best they've ever done as the average of what they regularly do. It's human nature, and that's why statistics usually fly in the face of "common knowledge." I'm not sure if I'm advocating balancing around the best something can do as opposed to the average that something does...I suppose I'm just posting to say I applaud the effort of the OP to add something meaningful to the discussion. Keep on truckin. But while you're at it, I'd suggest keeping the measurements running of your isk/hour ratio. There's certainly information in this thread that would improve it, and it could produce a different and very interesting data set in the future.
Cearain Caldari ReSlavers	Posted - 2010.01.27 18:58:00 - [112] Originally by: Irdia Freelancer Edited by: Irdia Freelancer on 27/01/2010 18:05:31 6 months research? ... A new player can hit the right targets with a couple of hours research if they so choose. Many players have given very good advice in what to look for in your research what lp to get and an enquiring type will be able to take that advice and find out for themselves in an hour or two. Players that want everything spelled out for them without doing any reasearch at all, now they may spend 6 months looking and still not find stuff. 6 months is not a stop watch type time. What I mean is at different times in eve you may be interested in different things. You will get info about different things. Whether its flying a certain ship for pvp or industry or worm holes etc. So for me - medium active player- it would take about 6 months maybe more before I would start making the 40+ mil isk doing missions. What skills do you need to mission? What ships are best for pve? Where are the various resources? How do you tank different rats? What dps is best for different rats? How do you get different agents? What agents give which missions? What corp should I start working for? What do I do with all the loot? How do I afford all the different hardeners and ships? Whats the best way to transport the stuff? I could go on and on. You can do all sorts of searches for this information and you will get the information - some faster than others. (although as far as lp values you may find your info is dated) But you won't be learning anything about pvp. You will be learning stuff that is really only relevant to missioning. It all may seem easy to you now but try to remember when you first started missioning. No one can start running level 4 missions in a few hours, unless you have a friend with standings who can get the missions for you. You have to grind up. Then you may find that yeah although caldari navy has allot of level 4 agents the lp sucks. Start grinding another corp. Unlike going to a null sec belt, shooting some rats and watching your wallet grow as you collect bounties missioning takes set up, work and yes research. This I believe is one of the big reasons many people whine about it. They don't want to take the time to grind up standings and look for which corp to go to, move all the crap they need to do missions, figure out how to run each mission efficiently. Nor do they want to train scrap metal processing connections negotiations and the various other skills for missioning. Nor do they want to save up for a golem and the faction equipment that you need to run these efficiently. People who make 40+ mill per hour missioning have spent allot of time figuring out how to do them right. I lost a few fully fitted ravens in level 4s when I was learning. I did get it down where I could do them consistantly without losing ships. But soon after that I sort of got tired of missioning - regardless of isk/hr. I may go back to doing high sec missions I may not, but its not something anyone is going to be able to spend a few hours learning about and then start making 40 mill per hour.
Cearain Caldari ReSlavers	Posted - 2010.01.27 19:21:00 - [113] Originally by: Irdia Freelancer Edited by: Irdia Freelancer on 27/01/2010 18:05:31 An experienced missions runner who knows the mission can take almost any mission and run it solo without ship loss even with a 14 day old char so the lvl 4's are not very hard once you learn to run lvl 4's. ..... The ships I lost were sometimes do to real life things happening. But you know real life happens. I never lost a ship due to real life happing when I was doing trading. I think you may be exagerating about 14 days to do level 4s. But here is the thing. You have to be an experienced mission runner. In a way that is what is good about missions. Its a fairly complex part of the game. It takes some knowledge and some skills and some research and the more of these you have the more money you can make. If you are an experienced trader you can most likely make allot more isk per hour trading with a 14 day old character than you can running missions.
Liang Nuren No Salvation War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.01.27 19:28:00 - [114] Originally by: Cearain If you are an experienced trader you can most likely make allot more isk per hour trading with a 14 day old character than you can running missions. QFT. I know this for fact - except it doesn't require you being an experienced trader. Just requires startup capital. ;-) -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Cearain Caldari ReSlavers	Posted - 2010.01.27 19:31:00 - [115] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton so you go to school and work a ****ty job making minimum wage, you then graduate and get a job that pays 20 an hour. your income now is 20 and hour and not some zombie composite of your two wages. likewise the time I spent learning the game and flying a torp cnr 2 years ago has no effects on the current isk/hour I make. If I can take one of 2 jobs that are in all relevant way equivalent except one requires a me to spend extra time and expense for schooling (or some other boring activity) then I take the one without the prereqs. You have to consider that time an investment. There is nothing wrong with eve rewarding those who invest their time and skills into being good mission runners. I think if there was no experience/setup/skills/knowledge required at all to do an activity in eve, yet it yielded more isk per hour than any other activity then that is a different situation.
Cearain Caldari ReSlavers	Posted - 2010.01.27 19:45:00 - [116] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Cearain If you are an experienced trader you can most likely make allot more isk per hour trading with a 14 day old character than you can running missions. QFT. I know this for fact - except it doesn't require you being an experienced trader. Just requires startup capital. ;-) -Liang Well cosnider the amounts of money spent on ships rigs and mods to do level 4s. Instead of spending that isk on a ship and various hardeners, call it start up capital.
Irdia Freelancer	Posted - 2010.01.27 22:06:00 - [117] What is needed to learn how to mission for over 40 mil isk/hr in hi-sec? 1. - have high skilled char in twinked out ship 2. - or find a good agent with good lp-> isk conversion and run lots of missions with. Now 1. takes time and isk to do. But 2. can be done quite quickly and without much research. I use myself as an example, mostly mission using cruiser hulls and earn over 40 mil isk/hr for over last 6 months with low combat skills and no T2 gunnery/missiles - typically the ishtar has no turrets except a civ gun which uses no ammo to get agro and the legion salv boat has tractors/salvs in the highs. Is even a number of those comenting in this topic which I dont have a high oppinion of who felt that what I claimed couldn't be done as they hadn't been able to do it. It took only about 2 weeks for someone to point out that their about 2 min looking into it found that yes it was being done. Thats something about eve is in-game a lot of info is available if one just looks. "I dont know what is a good product to convert lp from" - Have you looked? You can look many ways. A quick search in the web will list old databases of lp store items and such. You can look at those and find something. There is also the 2 min way which is much more effiecient that probably 99.999% of players never use, and since they never use it just can't be done ... Many of the experienced players commenting in this topic fit that same category as I've argued myself with many of them and even when you all but spell something out for them they can't find stuff. What is this 2 minute way to some trader secrets? simple, look at the character info in-game of a mission runner for a trader, this will show standings including the agents they mision most with which will have 10.0 standings, plus they probably have corp standings of 10.0 so you now know the agent plus the corp they mission for. for lp converted items which are sold by contract, open the contracts window and look at completed contracts for a trader and you will see the items they have been selling and for what price. Want to klnow where to sell? Open contracts for a trader and it can list where they are selling. Its weird, you can ask location of another player from an agent and it takes isk and takes time as that can help hunt down a player, yet trader info is open for everyone to see instantly. Ccp is pro-pirate. Take hulkageddon event as advertised by ccp staff (7-14 Jan just gone) where they pretty much tell you to buy ships which due to a fault with insurance pay out more in insurance than the ship costs! but thats an exploit for pirates so its okay - an exploit for non-pirates tends to not be advertised by ccp staff and closed.
Kerfira Audaces Fortuna Iuvat	Posted - 2010.01.28 01:01:00 - [118] Edited by: Kerfira on 28/01/2010 01:02:05 Originally by: Tom Peeping ... (shortened for quoting reasons) I grant at this point we're talking placing sell orders, and that starts to cross over into market work rather than mission running, but if you're going to include sales to market buys as part of your figures for mission running, it's simply ridiculous to knowingly, purposefully get less than you can for the mission loot. True to some extent. 'Inefficient' is probably not the right word.... On the other hand, I have no interest whatever in playing the market... Yes, I know I could make more money if I carefully sorted my items and brought them to the nearest hub... I just CBA.... And, as I said, since there is significant amount of industry going on around where I mission, my minerals gets bought at mostly a higher rate than Jita (though they sell slower)... I consider that additional income as money earned by trading, not by missioning. The mission brings you money, LP, minerals (after reprocessing) and rig components. The most easy (reasonable) 'shift' of that is the mission 'overhead'. Everything you do on top of that is 'trading/building' overhead, and the profits from it comes from trading/building. If you do not use that distinction, then you can't really make proper statistics about what the income from missions are because the figures gets 'tainted' by the trading/building overhead. Once you do make that distinction, the overhead really IS negligible... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Tom Peeping	Posted - 2010.01.28 01:19:00 - [119] Originally by: Irdia Freelancer What is needed to learn how to mission for over 40 mil isk/hr in hi-sec? 1. - have high skilled char in twinked out ship 2. - or find a good agent with good lp-> isk conversion and run lots of missions with. Now 1. takes time and isk to do. But 2. can be done quite quickly and without much research. I use myself as an example, mostly mission using cruiser hulls and earn over 40 mil isk/hr for over last 6 months with low combat skills and no T2 gunnery/missiles - typically the ishtar has no turrets except a civ gun which uses no ammo to get agro and the legion salv boat has tractors/salvs in the highs. Is even a number of those comenting in this topic which I dont have a high oppinion of who felt that what I claimed couldn't be done as they hadn't been able to do it. It took only about 2 weeks for someone to point out that their about 2 min looking into it found that yes it was being done. Thats something about eve is in-game a lot of info is available if one just looks. "I dont know what is a good product to convert lp from" - Have you looked? You can look many ways. A quick search in the web will list old databases of lp store items and such. You can look at those and find something. There is also the 2 min way which is much more effiecient that probably 99.999% of players never use, and since they never use it just can't be done ... Many of the experienced players commenting in this topic fit that same category as I've argued myself with many of them and even when you all but spell something out for them they can't find stuff. What is this 2 minute way to some trader secrets? simple, look at the character info in-game of a mission runner for a trader, this will show standings including the agents they mision most with which will have 10.0 standings, plus they probably have corp standings of 10.0 so you now know the agent plus the corp they mission for. for lp converted items which are sold by contract, open the contracts window and look at completed contracts for a trader and you will see the items they have been selling and for what price. Want to klnow where to sell? Open contracts for a trader and it can list where they are selling. Its weird, you can ask location of another player from an agent and it takes isk and takes time as that can help hunt down a player, yet trader info is open for everyone to see instantly. Ccp is pro-pirate. Take hulkageddon event as advertised by ccp staff (7-14 Jan just gone) where they pretty much tell you to buy ships which due to a fault with insurance pay out more in insurance than the ship costs! but thats an exploit for pirates so its okay - an exploit for non-pirates tends to not be advertised by ccp staff and closed. 40 mill with 2 ships... a runner and a salvager? I'm not claiming 40 mill is impossible... I know it's not. But doing it with 2 chars works out at 20 mil per hour per character. It kinda sounds like your achieving similar results to the OP unless I misunderstood something here. Just saying.
Liang Nuren No Salvation War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.01.28 01:35:00 - [120] Originally by: Tom Peeping 40 mill with 2 ships... a runner and a salvager? I'm not claiming 40 mill is impossible... I know it's not. But doing it with 2 chars works out at 20 mil per hour per character. It kinda sounds like your achieving similar results to the OP unless I misunderstood something here. Originally by: OP # Dual Boxing with two toons -- a 16 mil SP Megathron Pilot and an 8 Mil SP highly focused Abby Pilot. I also run with a friend who also dual boxed, who uses a 9 mil SP CNR and a devoted salavger. ... Average income Blitzing: 41.88m ISK/hour, 20.94m Isk/Hour/Account Average income Salvaging: 38.17m ISK/hour, 19.59m isk/hour/account There's four pilots involved in the OP's numbers. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org

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