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Mister LEM0NS	Posted - 2010.01.21 22:25:00 - [1] As most of us may know, Dominion had an upgrade today. The supercarries become a whole new weapon, dreadnaughts signature radius's were raised for battle conditions, the nagflar is now ready to use XL Artillery, our stout little frigates can probe space for longer, and an entirely new weapon flew to the battlefield by force via citadel torpedos mounted within drones. The Fighter Bomber! And yet, most of these upgrades will not help the everyday player. Why? Despite the war going on in the forums, CCP has once again, neglected to see our beloved railguns some mercy. Still weaker than any other weapon in the game, railguns are next to useless, as is my rokh. People tell me they have range, but whats the point if the enemy can repair what little damage i have done and have spare time waiting for the next lowly salvo? I have also been told to use blasters. Can blasters participate in missions where the average orbit is at 30 - 50km? No, and frankly, i shouldnt have to sacrifice my medium slots to fit an afterburner. Im tired of using missiles to get the work done. When will the CCP give us the much needed railgun overhaul? (PS: dont give me that "there is alrady a poll about this! TROLL TROLL TROLL!" Thats not the point. The point is that there was just an upgrade and we havent seen any changes the average player wants to see. The only people rejoycing now are alliances / large corps and the ninja salvagers hunting down small powerful ships doing level 4s)
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2010.01.21 22:34:00 - [2] Originally by: Mister LEM0NS (PS: dont give me that "there is alrady a poll about this! TROLL TROLL TROLL!" Thats not the point. The point is that there was just an upgrade and we havent seen any changes the average player wants to see. The only people rejoycing now are alliances / large corps and the ninja salvagers hunting down small powerful ships doing level 4s) You're projecting your feelings onto the world at large if you think that a railgun boost is something that the "average" player wants to see. Nothing but hyperbole here. Move along. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2010.01.21 22:38:00 - [3] wah wah wah boost me nerf you i'm incompetent halp pls ccp wah wah
Mister LEM0NS	Posted - 2010.01.21 22:39:00 - [4] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Mister LEM0NS (PS: dont give me that "there is alrady a poll about this! TROLL TROLL TROLL!" Thats not the point. The point is that there was just an upgrade and we havent seen any changes the average player wants to see. The only people rejoycing now are alliances / large corps and the ninja salvagers hunting down small powerful ships doing level 4s) You're projecting your feelings onto the world at large if you think that a railgun boost is something that the "average" player wants to see. Nothing but hyperbole here. Move along. -Liang What im saying is that most new people and the people who own hybrid turret ships like some caldari and all gallente, want to see their turrets doing some damage.
Darek Castigatus Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel	Posted - 2010.01.21 22:40:00 - [5] they already do plenty, not ccps fault you're incompetant is it now.
How2FoldSoup Hull Tanking Elitists	Posted - 2010.01.21 22:45:00 - [6] Confirming my brokh hits out to 40km. Null + TE is p nice sometimes
Mister LEM0NS	Posted - 2010.01.21 22:46:00 - [7] Edited by: Mister LEM0NS on 21/01/2010 22:46:20 Originally by: Darek Castigatus they already do plenty, not ccps fault you're incompetant is it now. Cruiser sized missiles are doing more damage then battleship sized railguns. A drake can out-volly a rokh any day, the sad part being that a drake only has 7 launchers while a rokh has 8 rails.
Don Pellegrino Helljumpers Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.01.21 22:47:00 - [8] I agree that they need some kind of boost, but that will come after they're done with Assault Ships and Rockets. Also, "most players want this" is never a good argument. The game has to be balanced, flaws need to get fixed, no matter if most players want it or not (i.e. There's more Caldari pilots than Gallente pilots, but Caldari won't get boosted because there's more people of that race, only because they might be underpowered).
d3vo Isotope Laboratories	Posted - 2010.01.21 22:49:00 - [9] Railgun's range compromises with its damage. It follow suit with beams and artillery. ch33rs
Myrkala Minmatar Aurora Acclivitous	Posted - 2010.01.21 22:51:00 - [10] According to polls, 80% of players want to paint their ships pink. - Thanks CCP, I knew you had it in you! <3 Long live Naglfar!
Mister LEM0NS	Posted - 2010.01.21 22:58:00 - [11] Originally by: Myrkala According to polls, 80% of players want to paint their ships pink. Would be nice ^^ PINK DRAKES!
Isonkon Serikain Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.01.21 22:59:00 - [12] what a waste of time
Nebuchadnezzar VI	Posted - 2010.01.21 23:00:00 - [13] They are called Hybrids for a reason. Do you want them to have the power of projectile turrets? Or the range of Lasers? If you do then use those. If you want something in between use hybrids. They all have there own purposes but lasers and projectiles have more specific or situational purposes. Hybrids are more of an in between, they don't excel at any one thing and to be quite honest, they aren't suppose to.
Grapez The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple	Posted - 2010.01.21 23:14:00 - [14] Originally by: Nebuchadnezzar VI They are called Hybrids for a reason... They are called hybrids for a reason, just not the one you cite. /signed for railgun b00st
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.01.22 00:25:00 - [15] Originally by: Don Pellegrino I agree that they need some kind of boost, but that will come after they're done with Assault Ships and Rockets. Also, "most players want this" is never a good argument. The game has to be balanced, flaws need to get fixed, no matter if most players want it or not (i.e. There's more Caldari pilots than Gallente pilots, but Caldari won't get boosted because there's more people of that race, only because they might be underpowered). player feedback is the number one balancing tool, Zulupark said it a while ago.... no wonder ccp can never balance things well. and really the only reason more people are caldari is caldari has a fan****ingtastic racial description.
d3vo Isotope Laboratories	Posted - 2010.01.22 00:59:00 - [16] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton player feedback is the number one balancing tool, Zulupark said it a while ago.... no wonder ccp can never balance things well. This. ch33rs
Stil Harkonnen	Posted - 2010.01.22 01:11:00 - [17] Originally by: Nebuchadnezzar VI They are called Hybrids for a reason. Comprehension fail
Fenris Ulfur Bio Material Inc	Posted - 2010.01.22 11:11:00 - [18] Originally by: Stil Harkonnen Originally by: Nebuchadnezzar VI They are called Hybrids for a reason. Comprehension fail Why not try and shed some light on what you think Hybrid means in this case rather than acting like a 14 year old girl? According to this source the prefix 'Hybrid' can indicate a composite formed by two or more elements. This could mean that when deciding on naming the weapon group 'hybrid weapons' CCP was thinking about: _____ a) The possible long range & low damage VS The possible high damage & short range _____ b) The combination of Shell/plasma core in the ammunition _____ c) The ability of the weapon to deal dual damage types (Heat, Explosive, Electro magnetic, Kinetic) Now take your pick or suggest an alternitive
Sumelar	Posted - 2010.01.22 11:15:00 - [19] Originally by: Mister LEM0NS Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Mister LEM0NS (PS: dont give me that "there is alrady a poll about this! TROLL TROLL TROLL!" Thats not the point. The point is that there was just an upgrade and we havent seen any changes the average player wants to see. The only people rejoycing now are alliances / large corps and the ninja salvagers hunting down small powerful ships doing level 4s) You're projecting your feelings onto the world at large if you think that a railgun boost is something that the "average" player wants to see. Nothing but hyperbole here. Move along. -Liang What im saying is that most new people and the people who own hybrid turret ships like some caldari and all gallente, want to see their turrets doing some damage. So what exactly am I killing things with on my gallente alt, if not damage?
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.01.22 11:19:00 - [20] Drones most likely.
Fenren Minmatar Bure Astro Photography	Posted - 2010.01.22 11:32:00 - [21] Originally by: Fenris Ulfur Originally by: Stil Harkonnen Originally by: Nebuchadnezzar VI They are called Hybrids for a reason. Comprehension fail Why not try and shed some light on what you think Hybrid means in this case rather than acting like a 14 year old girl? According to this source the prefix 'Hybrid' can indicate a composite formed by two or more elements. This could mean that when deciding on naming the weapon group 'hybrid weapons' CCP was thinking about: _____ a) The possible long range & low damage VS The possible high damage & short range _____ b) The combination of Shell/plasma core in the ammunition _____ c) The ability of the weapon to deal dual damage types (Heat, Explosive, Electro magnetic, Kinetic) Now take your pick or suggest an alternitive or it might have something to do with how they fire... projectile uses a chemical reaction and kinetic energy from expanding gasses from said reaction LAZORs uses electric energy to form high-energy electo-magnetic radiation and focuses that on the enemy hybrids uses electric energy to fire a projectile how a railgun works how a coil gun works or it might be a name to categorise different made up in-game weapons to make it easier for everyone... balance-, design- and fiction-crews as well as players
Alt Tabbed	Posted - 2010.01.22 11:38:00 - [22] Originally by: Sumelar So what exactly am I killing things with on my gallente alt, if not damage? Your stunning good looks.
Chalrynn Illyndar Navy of Xoc	Posted - 2010.01.22 11:40:00 - [23] Originally by: Fenren Originally by: Fenris Ulfur Originally by: Stil Harkonnen Originally by: Nebuchadnezzar VI They are called Hybrids for a reason. Comprehension fail Why not try and shed some light on what you think Hybrid means in this case rather than acting like a 14 year old girl? According to this source the prefix 'Hybrid' can indicate a composite formed by two or more elements. This could mean that when deciding on naming the weapon group 'hybrid weapons' CCP was thinking about: _____ a) The possible long range & low damage VS The possible high damage & short range _____ b) The combination of Shell/plasma core in the ammunition _____ c) The ability of the weapon to deal dual damage types (Heat, Explosive, Electro magnetic, Kinetic) Now take your pick or suggest an alternitive or it might have something to do with how they fire... projectile uses a chemical reaction and kinetic energy from expanding gasses from said reaction LAZORs uses electric energy to form high-energy electo-magnetic radiation and focuses that on the enemy hybrids uses electric energy to fire a projectile how a railgun works how a coil gun works or it might be a name to categorise different made up in-game weapons to make it easier for everyone... balance-, design- and fiction-crews as well as players "A railgun uses magnetic rails to fire solid chunks of matter at hypersonic speeds. The accurate range of railguns is very good, but due to technical limitations it cannot use onboard guidance." - Railgun description from in-game. Particle blasters operate on a similar principle as the railgun except they fire a magnetically contained ball of subatomic particles. - Blaster description from in-game.
Fenren Minmatar Bure Astro Photography	Posted - 2010.01.22 11:51:00 - [24] Originally by: Chalrynn Illyndar "A railgun uses magnetic rails to fire solid chunks of matter at hypersonic speeds. The accurate range of railguns is very good, but due to technical limitations it cannot use onboard guidance." - Railgun description from in-game. Particle blasters operate on a similar principle as the railgun except they fire a magnetically contained ball of subatomic particles. - Blaster description from in-game. Yes and according to the names of the in-game railguns they uses both coil-gun and rail-gun technology
Commander Ogir	Posted - 2010.01.22 12:04:00 - [25] Rokh and Railgun is MEH.... Go and use some projectiles. Helps to get a better tank too... that bonus isnt worth the effort.
AterraX Caldari	Posted - 2010.01.22 14:08:00 - [26] Originally by: Mister LEM0NS Originally by: Myrkala According to polls, 80% of players want to paint their ships pink. Would be nice ^^ PINK DRAKES! Even nicer would be: PINK NAVY DRAKES!! Fact of EVE forums: They will always come an anounomys alt-toon and question someones character...only fools buy into anything a forum alt says though... And yes I am an alt :)
Assembly Turkey	Posted - 2010.01.22 14:23:00 - [27] Edited by: Assembly Turkey on 22/01/2010 14:23:26 If CCP Listened to everybody yelling that their current class needed to be buffed, we would all be doing L4 Missions in frigs and whining they don't do enough damage. Gallente runs one of the best mission ships in the game, Dominix, (For like 70mil fitted) able to tank over 1k missions specific dps running dual LAR, 5Ogres or Sentries while using the high slots to tractor and salvage making up for the time you would have to come back in a destroyer. As for Caldari, there is a reason the most popular ships are the ones with the missile bonuses, just like Gallente and drone bonuses. No race can excel at everything, we have enough Caldari pilots as it is.
Parfait Noir	Posted - 2010.01.22 14:27:00 - [28] One thing that also might be mentioned is that rails have the primary drawbacks of both Lasers and Projectiles (needing ther cap of lasers and ammo like projectiles) and seem to be less effective than both (from what i hear, hell im a normal cadari i use missiles)
Sumelar	Posted - 2010.01.22 15:08:00 - [29] Originally by: Furb Killer Drones most likely. Yeah, megathrons are really great drone boats, what with that huge capacity and damage bonus. The thread is about hybrid guns, try not to be an idiot when posting.
Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2010.01.22 15:27:00 - [30] Originally by: Mister LEM0NS Cruiser sized missiles are doing more damage then battleship sized railguns. A drake can out-volly a rokh any day, the sad part being that a drake only has 7 launchers while a rokh has 8 rails. Drake can't throw ordinance 250km.
Rong Ray	Posted - 2010.01.22 15:29:00 - [31] Large Railguns are just not meant for missions. Accept it and move on. There are some decent gunboats out there that are great for missions. Train for one of those, and dont look back.
Saietor Blackgreen Crimson Star Empire Symbiogenesis	Posted - 2010.01.22 15:59:00 - [32] Well, railguns are not THAT bad as you cite, really. I mean, base DPS-wise, they have higher damage than artilleries AND longer range, AND better tracking that allows using more short-range high-damage ammo, if you talk missions. Sure enough, matari ships get more damage bonuses, but then Gallente ships get more guns, and additional tanking/tracking bonuses, which are just as welcome for missions, plus drone bays are much larger in general. Damage type is not the worst you can get, at least when you need to fight Angels you dont have to suffer like Amarr do... I really fail to see the problem of gallente sucking in missions - drone boats are amazing for that! Maybe rail platforms are not top of the line, but hey... ECM ships make bad mission ships too, you dont complain about that? And Rokh - people, how can you even say it sucks with rails?! It is basically one of best value-for-money fleet ships there is! Huge shield (self-repairing) buffer, ranges extendable easily with T2 guns to 250 km, perfectly reachable 150 km with even T1 guns and BS skill at 4, damage enough to make things happen (although not best damage, but you cant excel everywhere). And now, with more Tempests in the field your shiled buffer is even more relevant due to resists! Megathrons used to be a standard fleet line ships for years, YEARS! Untill Apocalypse got it ultimate boost, which made amarr BS the kings of line battle, as they should be, if you look at general picture of race specializations. Come one! Rails are great! --- EvE online. New game every 6 months.
Mister LEM0NS	Posted - 2010.01.22 16:39:00 - [33] Edited by: Mister LEM0NS on 22/01/2010 16:41:20 IVE GOT IT! i think ive found out why they are called hybrids. Theyre not bad at just ONE thing like projectiles, missiles and lasers, theyre bad at EVERYTHING! I think projectiles should be hydrids because they do multi-damage in one blow with the ammunition of your choice having the same range penalties as hybrid ammunition. In other words, the railgun is a downgraded projectile cannon with slightly better range. The only decision in rails is what range you want. Long range and weak, or strong and short range. With projectiles, you can compromise. You get short range and possible 3 damages, or long range still with 3 damage types. I would fit artillery on the rokh but it gets no bonuses and would only drain the cap faster "And Rokh - people, how can you even say it sucks with rails?! It is basically one of best value-for-money fleet ships there is!" Im not saying the rokh is bad... its the weapon it uses
Akuma Kanya	Posted - 2010.01.22 17:35:00 - [34] Edited by: Akuma Kanya on 22/01/2010 17:36:50 Originally by: Sumelar ...What im saying is that most new people and the people who own hybrid turret ships like some caldari and all gallente, want to see their turrets doing some damage. So what exactly am I killing things with on my gallente alt, if not damage? Originally by: Furb Killer Drones most likely. thread winner \o/ edit: quoting fail on my part
Saietor Blackgreen Crimson Star Empire Symbiogenesis	Posted - 2010.01.22 18:03:00 - [35] Edited by: Saietor Blackgreen on 22/01/2010 18:06:36 Originally by: Mister LEM0NS IVE GOT IT! i think ive found out why they are called hybrids. Theyre not bad at just ONE thing like projectiles, missiles and lasers, theyre bad at EVERYTHING! I think projectiles should be hydrids because they do multi-damage in one blow with the ammunition of your choice having the same range penalties as hybrid ammunition. In other words, the railgun is a downgraded projectile cannon with slightly better range. The only decision in rails is what range you want. Long range and weak, or strong and short range. With projectiles, you can compromise. You get short range and possible 3 damages, or long range still with 3 damage types. I would fit artillery on the rokh but it gets no bonuses and would only drain the cap faster Well, you are outright wrong. Rails have MORE DPS, tracking AND range than projectiles for equal other conditions. How can you even remotely call them "downgraded" projectiles? Surely, they use capacitor unlike projectiles and dont have options in damage type, AND they dont have as high damage as lasers do, but they are also easier to fit, especially on the ships that are bonused for them. Compare fitting Mega with a rack of 425s and Tempest with rack of 1400s of Apoc with rack of Tachyons, and you will see what I mean - difference in grid requirement is drastic. And how on earth artillery will "drain cap faster" on Rokh? And why would you put it there - a weapon with about 50% less range, less damage, less tracking? To save cap for tank? Then Maelstrom is your friend, not Rokh - it has perfect bonuses for that game! No offence friend, but I really think you dont know well how different parameters of turrets relate to each other between arties/rails/beams, both raw and with factoring in ship bonuses and common setups. Do some comparisons in EFT, please. Rails are exactly fine. Blasters do have problems - cant really speak for this, I only used Taranis as blaster ship, but blasters are completely different story. Rails are fine. Originally by: Mister LEM0NS "And Rokh - people, how can you even say it sucks with rails?! It is basically one of best value-for-money fleet ships there is!" Im not saying the rokh is bad... its the weapon it uses Rokh is a good ship only because it has huge optimal bonus to a weapon with highest optimal in game - how can its weapons be bad in this case? It makes no sense! Its a perfect ship for the purpose. Other fleet BSes may win by one of truly important parameter (damage, or alpha, or EHP, or price) but not by all or even by most - Rokh will always be on top, so to say, by balances score. Sure thing, its rarely valued by EvE players, although in reality it is very important factor in long and intensive fleet warfare - overall efficiency. Dont even touch Rokh, it looks like locomotive for crissakes! :) --- EvE online. New game every 6 months.
lil Ghork	Posted - 2010.01.22 18:34:00 - [36] i heard gallente ships also had a drone advantage, i could be wrong, so boost railguns nerf drones? to keep it in line
Electric Potential	Posted - 2010.01.22 22:23:00 - [37] You should have an afterburner on your battleship anyway. You'll be spending quite a bit of time simply AFK waiting for your 100 m/s ship to move around the mission. You can save quite a bit of time with an afterburner, and that time you're saving is more cash you'll make in the future.
Lemmy Kravitz	Posted - 2010.01.22 22:50:00 - [38] Edited by: Lemmy Kravitz on 22/01/2010 22:51:01 I guess, torps, cruise, drones, and ecm aren't enough for the two of you. I'll trade you my targetpainting bonus' for your ecm, or drone bonus'
AnnaPP	Posted - 2010.01.22 22:57:00 - [39] Originally by: Myrkala According to polls, 80% of players want to paint their ships pink. YES PINK HULK YAY! Is it going to be in next patch?
Kazang Wrecking Shots	Posted - 2010.01.23 00:30:00 - [40] Whats up mister lemons? You sound bitter. Kazang

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