| Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
RalShae Marques
   |
Posted - 2010.01.22 20:55:00 -
[1]
I would like to propose 3 cloaking device scanners.
Level 1: the opposite of the Prototype Cloaking Device I. Same CPU, Power, and skill requirements. Instead of speed penalty, it has a range of.. oh.. 5K.
Level 2: the opposite of the Improved Cloaking Device II. Same CPU, Power, and skill requirements. Instead of speed penalty, it has a range of.. maybe 10K.
Level 3: the opposite of the Covert Ops Cloaking Device II. Again, same CPU, Power, and skill requirements. This has no range limitation..
Cloaked ships are like submarines here on earth. Near invisibilty to all others. But now there are Anti-submarine submarines. "Hunter-killers"...
Ships that can fit the cloaking devices, can fit the scanners.
The gotcha.. You can't run both (one of each) at the same time. Back to the submarine analogy.. You're either "rigged for silent running" (cloaked) or "running active sonar" (scanning).
No new ships are needed. Only tweaks to the covert ops frigates, and other ships, that can fit the covert ops cloaks.
Cloaked ships still can do what they normally do.. But now they have a counter balance. Instead of a cloaked ship camping at a low-sec gate with near impunity. A "hunter killer" could come in and check it out first. The same ship can be used for both tasks..
If you're a cloaked gate camper you would change your tactics a little. You'd warp to a gate, scan for other cloakers, then cloak yourself. On the other side of the coin you fall prey to the same tactic. Somebody else could come in, scan and possibly find you. Currently.. just because you're cloaked, doesn't mean you're the only one quietly lurking...
Comments welcome...
|
mchief117
|
Posted - 2010.01.22 21:00:00 -
[2]
intersting take on the idea as i have proposed several anti cloak myselfs. thought mine had to do with scaner vs stealth strenght.
i think most plp would be ok with you have to use a paper thin ship to find a paper thin ship.
but do be prepared for those who say " if it ant broke dont fix it" as they lack the ability to tell that it is way broken and not in the good way. And im pretty sure they will quote me on that as well
|
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
|
Posted - 2010.01.22 21:41:00 -
[3]
My biggest concern with all of the anti-cloaking concepts is that they are direct boosts to bubble camps.
You jump through a gate, there's a bubble..and there's a hunter-killer with a scanner. your chances of getting out of that bubble just went from slim to practically none.
Bubble camps don't really need boosting.
|
RalShae Marques
|
Posted - 2010.01.22 22:05:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
My biggest concern with all of the anti-cloaking concepts is that they are direct boosts to bubble camps.
You jump through a gate, there's a bubble..and there's a hunter-killer with a scanner. your chances of getting out of that bubble just went from slim to practically none.
Bubble camps don't really need boosting.
I hadn't thought of that..
But remember.. If I'm flying a hunter-killer, scanning for cloaks (not bubble remnants) I'm the only ship that can see the cloaked ship. If I recal correctly, one can't target while cloaked, one can't target while scanning either. At best I can fly towards the cloaked ship, and get close enough to disrupt the cloaked ships cloaking. I can tell the other people bubble camping with me.. "There's a cloaked ship.. um.. that-a-way."
Second.. by being a hunter killer, the scanner helps defeat gate campers. Exploritory hunter-killers can jump through the gate before the main force, if there's a camp, or a cloaked look-out, the hunter-killer can see it, and warn off the main force.
Third.. If I'm warping into a low-sec area without checking kills and podding rates before I go.. I only have myself to blame.
Bubble camping is a problem. But that's another discussion.
|
David Grogan
Gallente
Final Conflict UK
Warped Aggression
|
Posted - 2010.01.22 22:11:00 -
[5]
i propose an anti "anti cloak" thread device
here is how it works
1. press search eve and enter anti cloak
2. read through the LONG list of anti cloak whines
3. select appropriate whine to add your whine too
4. Leave knowing you got your voice heard
ccp please leave the cloak alone it works perfectly as intended.
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
Laurew
|
Posted - 2010.01.22 22:36:00 -
[6]
what a great idea.
I guess with the introduction of that, we will no longer be able to get a covert warp in on a hostile fleet, or gather valuble intel on hostile fleets, or do anything that the cov ops was intended to do.
running missions in empire is not ment to be safe, and neither is ratting in 0.0.
How to fix a cloak? Nerf local
|
Tamahra
Gallente
Danke fuer den Fisch
|
Posted - 2010.01.22 22:43:00 -
[7]
dont fix whats not broken. the current game mechanics are fine.
Its a very vocal minority who is asking for anti cloaking, but they do it very loudly. But you have to get real and deal with it, it will never be implemented.
|
Zzander Solus
|
Posted - 2010.01.22 23:06:00 -
[8]
According to the game developers at the last Fanfest, cloaked ships are not really invisible, but not "there". My understanding of the game mechanic for cloaking is the ship is ghosted to another part of the server til it uncloaks or is uncloaked in proximity to something. The player in the cloaked ship still sees everything in TQ, but his ship for all purposes is in an alternate reality (kind of like being in TQ and Singularity simultaneously). I will have to dig around Youtube to find the Fanfest vid on it, but I think it was in the PvP meeting. So, what you are proposing may take a total rewrite of a game mechanic.
|
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2010.01.22 23:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: RalShae Marques
I hadn't thought of that..
Let's face it, you hadn't thought period.
Another fail idea, that breaks something without it even needing fixing.
|
Jim Luc
Caldari
Free Masons United Inc.
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2010.01.22 23:26:00 -
[10]
Wow, such animosity to a someone's well-put suggestion. I can tell you must use the cloak quite a bit.
I think a cloak-finder is something much needed, just like bubbles were needed. It helps with pocket security.
Honestly, it's ridiculous that one or two can get into pocket and cloak up. It makes true security an impossibility, as they only need to warp in, send a few bombs flying, and warp out, and they've destroyed several hulks. Only one or two individuals can keep an entire pocket at bay this way, even if everyone flies with an armed escort.
The fix to the bubble issue is to make scanning take a while. 30 seconds or so is fine, with levels or skill upgrades decreasing the time and increasing the chances it takes to scan someone's location down.
This way, you can still avoid the gate-camp bubble if you manage to get away by always moving/warping through the system, but you can't camp in a held system for long without someone finding you. It encourages more reasons to hold and keep SOV in a system.
|
|
|
RalShae Marques
|
Posted - 2010.01.25 17:26:00 -
[11]
I'm not going to get into a spitting contest.
But I will ask one question for those who have posted "It ain't broke don't fix it comments."
That question is.. What is the counter balance to covert ops cloaks? Everything in EVE has a balance. Be it a device, or a tactic, or a group of tactics, or something that's built in to the device itself... Example, long range weapons have slow rate of fire and/or slow tracking, and are nearly ineffective in close range.
So again I ask.. what's the counter to covert ops?
Second, does the anti-cloak render the cloak useless? Of course not. Not everybody flies covert-ops ships exclusively. Not everybody will have cloak-finders either. You can still fly a cov-op ship and try to gather intel on another fleet. If they're running cloak-finders.. that's a piece of intel is it not? You now know you can't warp in with cloaked bombers and attack.. That's intel, is it not? As has been stated, running around in low-sec space shouldn't be safe.
Why does covert ops get the exception...?
If you all can demonstrate that covert-ops is NOT free from danger.. and I mean above and beyond bubble camping... that it does have viable counter measures/balances.... then I'll drop my post.
|
JitaPriceChecker2
|
Posted - 2010.01.25 17:32:00 -
[12]
First nerf local.
|
Bruner Sabaton
|
Posted - 2010.01.26 22:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: RalShae Marques
I'm not going to get into a spitting contest.
But I will ask one question for those who have posted "It ain't broke don't fix it comments."
That question is.. What is the counter balance to covert ops cloaks? Everything in EVE has a balance. Be it a device, or a tactic, or a group of tactics, or something that's built in to the device itself... Example, long range weapons have slow rate of fire and/or slow tracking, and are nearly ineffective in close range.
So again I ask.. what's the counter to covert ops?
Second, does the anti-cloak render the cloak useless? Of course not. Not everybody flies covert-ops ships exclusively. Not everybody will have cloak-finders either. You can still fly a cov-op ship and try to gather intel on another fleet. If they're running cloak-finders.. that's a piece of intel is it not? You now know you can't warp in with cloaked bombers and attack.. That's intel, is it not? As has been stated, running around in low-sec space shouldn't be safe.
Why does covert ops get the exception...?
If you all can demonstrate that covert-ops is NOT free from danger.. and I mean above and beyond bubble camping... that it does have viable counter measures/balances.... then I'll drop my post.
if you want a counter i will give you one if i am cloaked i cant hurt you but if i uncloak my ship i made out of wet totlet paper so if you lock me. me dead unless i am not stupet.
|
Cedims
|
Posted - 2010.01.27 01:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: RalShae Marques
I hadn't thought of that..
Exactly.
Originally by: RalShae Marques
But remember.. If I'm flying a hunter-killer, scanning for cloaks (not bubble remnants) I'm the only ship that can see the cloaked ship. If I recal correctly, one can't target while cloaked, one can't target while scanning either. At best I can fly towards the cloaked ship, and get close enough to disrupt the cloaked ships cloaking. I can tell the other people bubble camping with me.. "There's a cloaked ship.. um.. that-a-way."
Yeah, and can have everything fitted for speed and you'll be there in notime to decloak it. Nice try.
Originally by: RalShae Marques
Second.. by being a hunter killer, the scanner helps defeat gate campers. Exploritory hunter-killers can jump through the gate before the main force, if there's a camp, or a cloaked look-out, the hunter-killer can see it, and warn off the main force.
Yeah, and sacrifice itself to the satisfaction of the bubblers, again. Come on, "helps defeat gate campers", give me a break.
Originally by: RalShae Marques
Third.. If I'm warping into a low-sec area without checking kills and podding rates before I go.. I only have myself to blame.
Which is true for any jump, regardless of cloaking. However, it's certainly not for the very first few victims.
Originally by: RalShae Marques
Bubble camping is a problem. But that's another discussion.
And why is this ANOTHER discussion, when someone pointed out that the proposal in itself will compound an already known problem?
|
Red zeon
Caldari
Circle of Shadows
Black Swan.
|
Posted - 2010.01.27 01:18:00 -
[15]
would be great for those dam macro ratters
|
FlightGlobal
|
Posted - 2010.01.27 01:22:00 -
[16]
Put simply: NO.
Cloakers fullfill a vital role in game that adds to the dynamics of eve. There is already a limit on 'true' cloakers (ie those that fit cov ops cloaking 2). Leave it there and don't kill off one of the most interesting parts of eve.
|
Octoven
|
Posted - 2010.01.27 05:49:00 -
[17]
Ok so......we are basically talking about effectively removing cloaks am I right? People who are cloaked are already nerfed enough. They can't use mods, reload weapons, and are effectively just there for observation. If you want to reveal a cloak then start moving your ship and get within 2km from them. Having a scanner to see through a cloak only works to remove their purpose. The only way I would go for this is if you can fire while cloaked to balance things out. Of course you may think thats a ridiculous concept and you would know how I feel of cloak scanners.
|
Loxatl Deathsquad
|
Posted - 2010.01.27 06:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Octoven
People who are cloaked are already nerfed enough. They can't use mods, reload weapons, and are effectively just there for observation. If you want to reveal a cloak then start moving your ship and get within 2km from them.
Pretty much this. Cloakers are only there to look, if you're so scared of them then go somewhere else.
|
Oxy Moronic
|
Posted - 2010.01.27 12:36:00 -
[19]
A device to hunt Cloakers with already exists. It's more commonly known as a SMARTBOMB.
|
Nyu Shin
|
Posted - 2010.01.27 12:57:00 -
[20]
NO.
"Cloaked ships are like submarines here on earth"
No, (some)submarines on Earth are more like cloaked Titans.
Cloaked ships in eve are just duct taped hulls, fun to fly, usefull for intel but fragile.
NO.
|
|
|
Archanjo
|
Posted - 2010.01.27 14:33:00 -
[21]
NO NO NO NO
and more NO.
Not beeing too rude, but fly a covert ops ship, then talk about beeing able to scan them... and you will join us as a NO.
|
Octoven
|
Posted - 2010.01.27 14:39:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Octoven on 27/01/2010 14:39:36
Originally by: Loxatl Deathsquad
Originally by: Octoven
People who are cloaked are already nerfed enough. They can't use mods, reload weapons, and are effectively just there for observation. If you want to reveal a cloak then start moving your ship and get within 2km from them.
Pretty much this. Cloakers are only there to look, if you're so scared of them then go somewhere else.
You quoted me wrong I was pointing out WHY cloaks are not too powerful AND was siding with keeping them as is, please read the WHOLE post before taking words out of context.
|
Hatch
Minmatar
4 Marketeers
Rura-Penthe
|
Posted - 2010.01.27 17:09:00 -
[23]
Originally by: RalShae Marques
I'm not going to get into a spitting contest.
But I will ask one question for those who have posted "It ain't broke don't fix it comments."
That question is.. What is the counter balance to covert ops cloaks? Everything in EVE has a balance.
you started the spitting contest when you started another damn cloak nerf thread...
the counter ballance is that you can't do anything offensive. if you want to find someone cloaked, start trolling with drones
|
Sig Sour
|
Posted - 2010.01.27 19:00:00 -
[24]
Originally by: RalShae Marques
So again I ask.. what's the counter to covert ops?
Mobile warp disruptor + the corpses of all the previous AFK cloakers.
------------------------
I think we should just spam all the cloaking and ninja salvage threads with "Cool idea bro." and leave it at that.
|
Assembly Turkey
|
Posted - 2010.01.27 19:23:00 -
[25]
the issue being that if you can see the ship, you can target it, send light drones and decloak it, while pinning it down.
2 sensor boost scripts, warp scram + light drones, and gg cloaked ship.
Cloaks are made for a reason, there has to be ways to get around space or too many people will simply quit ever after losing large amounts of money on gate camps, which is detrimental to CCP
|
Cresalle
|
Posted - 2010.01.27 20:54:00 -
[26]
Cloak ain't broke.
Leave it alone please, CCP.
|
Cameron Freerunner
|
Posted - 2010.01.27 21:21:00 -
[27]
the whole anti-cloak thing never made much sense to me. what's next? an anti-anti-cloak device? when does the arms race end? there is the most curious set of ideas running around that somehow there has to be a direct counter to everything else. |
XIII'th
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 15:22:00 -
[28]
I am enemy of anti cloak devices, and will not support any type of it, BUT would not cry much if there would be some kind of short range scanner showing cloaked ships ONLY to scanner user, and ONLY those with normal cloak. Covert ops cloaking device users should be unnable to scan ever, those guys in coverts are eyes of the fleet and they do nothing except watching, force recons are good for killing stupid ratters maybe, even stealth bombers are not invincible (but i'll agree, SB are little overpowered, but not becouse of cloak).
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |