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Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
Moar Tears
10
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Posted - 2011.09.24 06:02:00 -
[31] - Quote
Usurpine wrote:...
...
I personally don-¦t like people who kill others....
I tell you it really sucks if you loose your ship, loose your pod and implants and loose isk you paid to pirates who give a sh|t about honour.
You sound an awful lot like someone who does a lot of PVE and resents the PVP aspect of the game. |
James Arget
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
4
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Posted - 2011.09.24 07:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
Let's see.. generally only 20-50m for a capsule. They may be worth more than that, but the lack of trust yadda yadda no idea what implants yadda yadda, generally that's a secondary concern.
Generally my guys try to get the entire ship. When we jump a siterunner, if they're flying a T3 or similiar, we'll point them, neut them, and tell them that if they eject then their capsule lives. Given that their ship is pretty much a write-off when you're pointed in w-space by a group that's pvp fit, they can either decide to take the offer, or try to deny us as much as possible. Usually we blow them up, but a good few times we've walked off with a new Hulk or some such.
Edit: Of course, we honor our ransoms. Can't expect someone to cough up if they don't know you're going to keep your word. |
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
Moar Tears
10
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Posted - 2011.09.24 07:46:00 -
[33] - Quote
Our standard procedure is to ransom really big, expensive stuff. Orcas, tengus, CNRs, sometimes hulks even. Expensive ships for usually around 300 million; they generally pay up, and then they generally instapop.
Give them 15 seconds, wait for them to pay, then blow them up for being late in paying; that works too. |
Sergio Ling
MALCONTENT5
Drowning Man
1
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Posted - 2011.09.24 11:24:00 -
[34] - Quote
I was brought up to honour ransoms, (which isn't even what this thread is primarily about...but), and honouring them makes targets talk to others about how 'Megadickwads' are honourable shitfuckers - word of mouth is the only way you'll get paid. Generally I've priced ransom at shiptype, area of operation (have you caught an unfortunate/ill-informed traveller?) and your own gang composition, if any (everyone wants a slice) |
Disastro
Wrecking Shots
BricK sQuAD.
0
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Posted - 2011.09.24 16:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
Cattegirn wrote:I'd like to hear the thoughts from experienced pirates (be that low or null sec) on how to evaluate what to ask for in ransom from a trapped player.
I've been ransomed myself a few times and always found the prices asked to be excessive. I believe that in those cases, the pirate is simply betting on eventually catching someone with some expensive implants.
But I wonder whether enough people travel in risky space with expensive implants to make this the right way to price ransoms. Anyone with a fair sample size might be able to fill me in there. I'm also concerned that the players who have expensive implants in null are going to be so rich they'll just replace the implants sooner than trust a ransom to be honored.
How essential is having a ship scanner and cargo scanner when setting up traps?
Just some stuff I'm curious about, thanks.
- Generally speaking.... when my corp pirates, and we go down to low sec every so often and spend a week or two going -10 (and recently spent a month or so in Oulley ganking people and demanding monocles), we always honor ransoms. We use the ransom money to SRP any ships we lose on the trip. Not honoring them would be foolish because we often got repeat customers and they would hardly choose to pay a second time if they got podded the first....
- As for what we ask for... that is a harder question. Realistically I assume you mean ransoming pods. We never ransom ships. We are there for the kill mails not for the money. We are more than happy enough just to rack up pod kill mails when people say no to a ransom offer. That happens about 95% of the time. About 4% of the time people discuss it and then say no. About 1% of the time someone agrees and pays. Asking for more money than the persons implants are going to cost them will result in a no (or more likely a F U). We generally look at the players age and standings which you can see by clicking on the player. If he has high mission running standings then you can assume he is a bear and will have good implants. A 1 month old bear isnt going to have +5 implants in. A 3 year old bear likely will have +4 or +5s. Asking for the same price as a full set will also likely get you a no. Generally we ask for bout half of what we expect a full set of +4s or +5s depending on the age of the character. If player is far younger then we may assume +2 or +3s and adjust the ransom for that.
- Realistically if you are hoping to make fantastic amounts of money from ransoming pods you will be disappointed. Most people arent going to pay more than a couple hundred million to save thier implants. Unless you get very lucky and catch someone with Slaves or Crystals or something in their head they would probably not consider paying much more than that. Most players will not have implants worth even that much.
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Andrea Griffin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2011.09.26 19:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
Zoe Alarhun wrote:Also I've converted carebears to low sec pvpr's just by showing we arn't huge a-holes. yeah we will blow up your ship. But we won't smack talk you first and make fun of you. We will be polite as long as you are. We will joke and have fun, and if you are a uber noob then we might even give you some isk + tips and send you on your way. People whine and complain that lowsec is empty, then the next time they catch some nubbin carebear they ransom him, blow up his ship anyway, spam LULNUB in local, and zap his pod. Do you really think that guy is ever going to come back to play? Hell no.
Like Zoe, I have on multiple occasions helped transform a hapless, clueless bear into an eager, blood thirsty wolf simply by not being a jerk. Many others have at least been given a few survival tips. Sure, that makes catching them harder the next time I see them in local, but at least there IS a next time.
If you catch someone who is really new you're not going to get any real money anyway, and nobody is going to be impressed that your faction fit T3 whatever was able to pew pew a rifter with a rail gun, 2 artillery, a small shield booster, and some reinforced bulkheads. So, you might as well engage in some light role play. Yarrrr! at them, get them involved in a conversation about how they have violated your sovereign territory and how upset you are that they have interrupted your rum drinking and parrot petting, and then demand 1 isk. It's a lot of fun.
More in line with the OP's topic, as others have said, a touch below the base price of the hull is a good general rule. I find that too many people ransom for far too much isk and that many people don't want to pay that much with the risk of losing the ship anyway. So, make them an offer they really can't refuse.
Pods are a little weird because you never really know if that nubbin has sold PLEX and stuffed his head with +5s, or if that 6 year old vet has an empty clone he expected to lose anyway. I usually never go higher than 40-50m on a pod; if someone refuses my initial ask, I'll drop it, and if they still say it's too much, I'll see if they would make ME a reasonable offer.
Unless they start to smack or whine. Then the deal is off and it's time for pew pew. |
Usurpine
GDC Holding
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
8
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Posted - 2011.09.27 07:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
Iam Widdershins wrote:Our standard procedure is to ransom really big, expensive stuff. Orcas, tengus, CNRs, sometimes hulks even. Expensive ships for usually around 300 million; they generally pay up, and then they generally instapop.
Give them 15 seconds, wait for them to pay, then blow them up for being late in paying; that works too.
^This.
Forget about ransoms. Its not worth even thinking about it. I like your post, because with this post you confirm my theory. Thank You that you make it clear.
And to answer your post, no, i am not doing PVE, i am playing eve different, making profit with sharing profit and helping noobs ingame.
I probably make more isk every month then you are able to kill. And its ok, because someone needs to buy new ships. My business is only profitable because you blow up ships. |
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
Moar Tears
11
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Posted - 2011.09.27 08:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
Usurpine wrote:Iam Widdershins wrote:Our standard procedure is to ransom really big, expensive stuff. Orcas, tengus, CNRs, sometimes hulks even. Expensive ships for usually around 300 million; they generally pay up, and then they generally instapop.
Give them 15 seconds, wait for them to pay, then blow them up for being late in paying; that works too. ^This. Forget about ransoms. Its not worth even thinking about it. I like your post, because with this post you confirm my theory. Thank You that you make it clear. And to answer your post, no, i am not doing PVE, i am playing eve different, making profit with sharing profit and helping noobs ingame. I probably make more isk every month then you are able to kill. And its ok, because someone needs to buy new ships. My business is only profitable because you blow up ships.
In a typical month I generally destroy about 15 billion isk. If you make more than that, then well done, that's quite the racket you've got going. I doubt one in a thousand EVE players makes that much.
I'm glad you're fine with people blowing up ships. I wish you were also fine with the people who do it, because honestly more of them are friendly, well-adjusted people than you will find among EVE's carebears (nearly all of them, in fact). I know this from multiple years of experience on both ends. |
Usurpine
GDC Holding
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
8
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Posted - 2011.09.27 13:43:00 -
[39] - Quote
Well, i am not. Quite impressing number, 15 bn /month. ccp must love you. |
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
Moar Tears
11
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Posted - 2011.09.27 22:21:00 -
[40] - Quote
I strive to do my best. |
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Cattegirn
Intellectual Wookies
3
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Posted - 2011.10.02 02:42:00 -
[41] - Quote
Andrea Griffin wrote:[quote=Zoe Alarhun]
I think your post was excellent. |
Xaphenus
Divide By Zero
Dark Phoenix Rising.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.02 18:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
NEVER pay a ransom, most will not honor it anyway , you'll end up losing twice your ship and the isk; best advice go down with your ship and fight to the death!  |
Xylorn Hasher
Mean Corp
Mean Coalition
1
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Posted - 2011.10.03 18:56:00 -
[43] - Quote
Mean Coallition honour ransoms.
If any of it's pilot brake that rule ( we have only this one rule ) ISK for ransom will be returned and pirate will be podded as an example for others.
We ransom ships rarely, its better to have greasy killmail than ISK in most situations, but we ransom Pods whenever we can.
Price depends of victim age.
New players are ransomed for 10-50m usually, older for few hundreds.
We do not ransom on gates, stations unless we are ready for potential trouble. |
Jacob cirth
Ion Corp.
Citex Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.10.04 17:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
You would be surprised how rarely "word" gets around if a particular pilot honors ransoms or not. More often than not, the victim has never heard of you, people they tell will forget, and the next person you catch will never have heard of you.
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Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
5
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Posted - 2011.10.04 17:42:00 -
[45] - Quote
Xaphenus wrote:NEVER pay a ransom, most will not honor it anyway , you'll end up losing twice your ship and the isk; best advice go down with your ship and fight to the death!
6 one way, half a dozen of another. I win either way.
As a mater of fact I would prefer your corpse, loot and tears anyway, especially if you are going to sport the e-honor crap. |
Iam Widdershins
FODT
26
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Posted - 2011.10.04 22:09:00 -
[46] - Quote
Baaldor wrote:Xaphenus wrote:NEVER pay a ransom, most will not honor it anyway , you'll end up losing twice your ship and the isk; best advice go down with your ship and fight to the death! 6 one way, half a dozen of another. I win either way. As a mater of fact I would prefer your corpse, loot and tears anyway, especially if you are going to sport the e-honor crap.
Eh, I don't see him being particularly Internet-Knightly here, more just realistic. |
Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
5
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Posted - 2011.10.05 00:07:00 -
[47] - Quote
Iam Widdershins wrote:Baaldor wrote:Xaphenus wrote:NEVER pay a ransom, most will not honor it anyway , you'll end up losing twice your ship and the isk; best advice go down with your ship and fight to the death! 6 one way, half a dozen of another. I win either way. As a mater of fact I would prefer your corpse, loot and tears anyway, especially if you are going to sport the e-honor crap. Eh, I don't see him being particularly Internet-Knightly here, more just realistic.
Yes, docked up and gleaming scads of information from the noob channel to get that special "realistic" perspective.
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Tamiya Sarossa
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2011.10.05 00:44:00 -
[48] - Quote
In general, I only pay ransoms to groups I'm familiar with, but it's generally very very easy to tell if someone is the kind of person who will hono~u~r them - you get a feel for it after awhile.
On the other hand, I rarely ask for ransoms because 99% of the time I'm fighting people who outgun me/running from blobs and not dying is the top priority, but I find if you hang around one area and are ~chill~ the locals will get pretty familiar with you and be willing to pay ransoms/encourage others to if you're a chill space brosef. I still don't do it often because of -meh- rewards, but it's a nice option to have when you feel bad about popping shitfit t1 BS you caught and are trying to take it easy on the sec. Just be polite and walk them through the process and in general don't be a douche and many will pay up.
EDIT: Oh and yeah go for ship value/or base it off age of character. I'll pay a lot for convenience, and so will many other older players. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
29
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Posted - 2011.10.05 04:40:00 -
[49] - Quote
Hmmm....
We can pull up stats on every system we go to via the map controls.
Too bad there's no "ransoms honored" stat, or a "ransoms dishonored" stat.
Just saying.
I wonder if that would affect traffic in a system? Anybody?
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Iam Widdershins
FODT
26
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Posted - 2011.10.05 04:48:00 -
[50] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Hmmm....
We can pull up stats on every system we go to via the map controls.
Too bad there's no "ransoms honored" stat, or a "ransoms dishonored" stat.
Just saying.
I wonder if that would affect traffic in a system? Anybody?
I would just spam "ransom honoured" in every system I went to or planned on living in. |
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Slimy Worm
your period
0
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Posted - 2011.10.05 05:24:00 -
[51] - Quote
Use a countdown. "You have 20 seconds to pay or I blow up your ship."
20
19
18... |
Iam Widdershins
FODT
26
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Posted - 2011.10.05 05:27:00 -
[52] - Quote
Slimy Worm wrote:Use a countdown. "You have 20 seconds to pay or I blow up your ship."
20
19
18...
Nah dude, just tell them they have 20 seconds, wait for them to pay, then blow 'em up for being late. Simple as. |
Msgerbs
Ironclad Forge
0
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Posted - 2011.10.05 06:54:00 -
[53] - Quote
Miney Prospector wrote:I got intercepted in a very nicely fit faction cruiser while taking a short cut through low sec. I paid the ransom, the request of which matched the going price of ship, because of the +5's I had plugged in. The guys who caught me were pros, and not just a few guys who got lucky. There was no chance of escaping in my pod. They might have gone ahead and blown the ship and me up if I paid, but I knew for a fact they would if I didn't. If I had crap implants in I would have let them blow it up and spent the cost of the ship to just buy a new ship. The main thing is if you get caught is to keep a level head and not just react out of anger. Once you're in the situation getting emotional about it isn't productive. As far as requesting ransoms, I'd say go for a little under the price of the hull because like I said, if I had been in a different clone I would not have paid the ransom for just the ship as I could just as easily spend the 'ransom' not paid on buying a new ship. Also keep in mind that some ships are just for fun or a novelty and paying a large amount to keep it intact may not be that desirable for the hostage since the ship isn't actually crucial for anything.
You should always be able to get your pod out in lowsec. Unless you're in some imaginary system with no stations, no planets, no sun, and only 1 gate, you should always be able to. |
Iam Widdershins
FODT
26
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Posted - 2011.10.05 07:01:00 -
[54] - Quote
Msgerbs wrote:
You should always be able to get your pod out in lowsec. Unless you're in some imaginary system with no stations, no planets, no sun, and only 1 gate, you should always be able to.
That would be a pretty cool system.
They could put it over in the lowsec pocket by the EVE gate and name it Accident. |
guska Cryotank
Void Angels
Nulli Tertius
0
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Posted - 2011.10.05 07:44:00 -
[55] - Quote
I normally forget to stop shooting long enough to ransom... |
Krono Black
Light Shines Through
0
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Posted - 2011.10.05 17:04:00 -
[56] - Quote
while i have never ransom someone i have been ransom a couple times. i for one have never paid because pirates break the rules ive listed..
If i am flying a ship worth 100mil im not going to give you 200 mil in a ransom. so dont ask so high.
Covertors are not hulks, a big issue i see with pirates is they see a mining barge and assume its worth alot of isk. Wrong.
Dont ask for 100 mil when im flying a covertor its a 20mil isk ship.
try to make sure you have the person locked down...... alot of pirates i have run into think just because you shot me once im going to pay. if its a stabbed ship their gonna run.
Dont add the price of the pod in the ransom. if their in a ship ask for the ship. most players, and ALL carebears assume they will get their pod out.
and always honor your ransom. you build a rep for not honoring your ransoms and no on will pay. Carebears do talk to one another. |
Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
6
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Posted - 2011.10.05 18:56:00 -
[57] - Quote
Krono Black wrote:while i have never ransom someone i have been ransom a couple times. i for one have never paid because pirates break the rules ive listed..
If i am flying a ship worth 100mil im not going to give you 200 mil in a ransom. so dont ask so high.
Covertors are not hulks, a big issue i see with pirates is they see a mining barge and assume its worth alot of isk. Wrong.
Dont ask for 100 mil when im flying a covertor its a 20mil isk ship.
try to make sure you have the person locked down...... alot of pirates i have run into think just because you shot me once im going to pay. if its a stabbed ship their gonna run.
Dont add the price of the pod in the ransom. if their in a ship ask for the ship. most players, and ALL carebears assume they will get their pod out.
and always honor your ransom. you build a rep for not honoring your ransoms and no on will pay. Carebears do talk to one another.
It does not make any sense, what so ever, not to honor a ransom if you enjoy making the isk in that fashion. Problem lies in the whining of emo raging nerds flooding the pub channels showing everyone where the bad man touched them.
But here is the problem, people use the term pirates pretty loosely.
You guys call Goons, Mercs of any kind, RA, -A-, Orphanage, or any one that happens to shoot at you pirates. They may be gay in the way they enjoy pushing your **** in, but not pirates.
So if they happen to catch you, ransom you, then kill you....yeah that is how they roll. Pay attention to who operates in your area, you should know who they are and how they operate for the most part. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.05 19:31:00 -
[58] - Quote
If for some reason I am ransoming someone in highsec how likely I am to actually honor it is entierly dependent on how annoying it is to deal with the person and how much he/she cries about the situation.
If someone spends several minutes screaming abuse at me in local, then when I convo them continues to cry endlessly, insult me and takes ages to respond to my messages the chances are that I'm just going to blow him up anyway to make him cry more. At this point I will consider declaring war on his corp because people like that are fun to shoot at.
But if they guy responds promptly, agrees to the proposed sum and they pay it all up front then the guy can go home with his ship.
As for amount, hull + half the rig cost is fine for most stuff that isn't loaded with faction mods. |
Ka Jolo
The Tuskers
7
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Posted - 2011.10.05 22:03:00 -
[59] - Quote
Something I've observed is that, whereas anonymous carebears are likely not to pay ransoms, experienced PVPers (including many pirates) are much more "trusting" and much more likely to pay. No doubt many of us who frequent this particular forum have a better-than-average idea of who does and doesn't honor ransoms.
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SC0T1SH WARRIOR
Zero For 0wned
1
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Posted - 2011.10.06 04:13:00 -
[60] - Quote
Personal Rules: Never pay any ransom, regardless of what implants/ship you are losing, pod express me everytime.
if ransoming, any number kinda close to the price of whatever is pointed does.
if they pay. shoot them summore, if they are still in ransom channel/chat after you shoot again..ransom again for half of what they just paid.
(Most of the time, this will yield a "i only have X amount left... then take X amount )
Then pop the ship.
Dont mind me, -ájust touching your stuff. |
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