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Cattegirn
Intellectual Wookies
0
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Posted - 2011.09.20 16:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'd like to hear the thoughts from experienced pirates (be that low or null sec) on how to evaluate what to ask for in ransom from a trapped player.
I've been ransomed myself a few times and always found the prices asked to be excessive. I believe that in those cases, the pirate is simply betting on eventually catching someone with some expensive implants.
But I wonder whether enough people travel in risky space with expensive implants to make this the right way to price ransoms. Anyone with a fair sample size might be able to fill me in there. I'm also concerned that the players who have expensive implants in null are going to be so rich they'll just replace the implants sooner than trust a ransom to be honored.
How essential is having a ship scanner and cargo scanner when setting up traps?
Just some stuff I'm curious about, thanks. |
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CCP Zymurgist
C C P C C P Alliance
126
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Posted - 2011.09.20 18:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm not an "experienced" pirate by any means but I have flown with enough to know some good rules of thumb about ransoms. The golden rule is to honor the ransom! You don't have to, but it makes it hard on people trying to make a living in low sec. Anyhow... It really breaks down into two main categories.
- Ransoming a ship?
- Ransoming a pod?
If you are ransoming a ship, try to base it about the base value of the hull. Yes that Brutix you just kited might have T2 blasters, a faction MWD, and maybe even officer tank mods, but you aren't garunteed it in the loot drop. Plus if the fit is that expensive, more reason for the sucker, er pilot, to pay up. The exceptions to this is haulers and T3. Bump up the ransom a little, and if you have a cargo scanner and they are filled with goodies, really stick it to them!
If you are ransoming a pod, base it off the age of the player. An older player will likely have more specialized implants they want to save.
Personally I haven't collected any ransoms... But my Brutix is still alive Zymurgist Community Representative CCP NA, EVE Online Contact Us at http://support.eveonline.com/pages/petitions/createpetition.aspx |
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Alyssa Yotosala
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.09.20 22:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Expecting a Pirate to act in an honorable fashion is the height of foolishness.
Forking over that large ransom with no guarantee of being let go, is practically giving money away in addition to getting blown up.
*You* may honor your ransom demands, but you have no control over what other pirates do.
The best course of action is to never pay ransoms and accept the loss ( because its the victims fault for getting caught )
Paying, and then getting blown up and podded once the payment is made just makes lulz and the resulting tears more valuable to the pirate. |
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
114
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Posted - 2011.09.20 23:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Never pay a high sec ransom since the theory with high sec gankers is that a target will only ever get caught once so you might as well milk them for what you can.
In low sec it is entirely different and you are more likely to be pod ransomed if anything but it's far far more likely that you can expect any ransom to be honoured as it is simply better for business. The exception is if you are caught by (most likely gate camping) smacktalking idiots in which case its mostly obvious they will dishonour. Any other circumstance it's worth paying the ransom if it is reasonable.
On the flip side:
As for how much you should be charging as a ransom? Age plays a big part, then you can also look up killboard stats for the player to see how he fits typically, other than that it's common sense. Carebears are less reasonably expected to pay a ransom but conversely could have the most valuable implants. Regular PVPers when caught will likely pay a moderate ransom but unless you know they have fancy implants theres a good chance they dont and you should price with their convenience in mind only.
If I get my pod caught (I've spent a year on a really laggy connection but still have to pew pew on occasion and shizzle happens) I would offer up about 20 to 40 m isk for my pod as it's usuallly not worth more and it's a nice amount to receive as ransom. Just don't be paying out to complete a-holes. "Why can't I be different and original, like everybody else?" |
Miney Prospector
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.09.20 23:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
I got intercepted in a very nicely fit faction cruiser while taking a short cut through low sec. I paid the ransom, the request of which matched the going price of ship, because of the +5's I had plugged in. The guys who caught me were pros, and not just a few guys who got lucky. There was no chance of escaping in my pod. They might have gone ahead and blown the ship and me up if I paid, but I knew for a fact they would if I didn't. If I had crap implants in I would have let them blow it up and spent the cost of the ship to just buy a new ship. The main thing is if you get caught is to keep a level head and not just react out of anger. Once you're in the situation getting emotional about it isn't productive. As far as requesting ransoms, I'd say go for a little under the price of the hull because like I said, if I had been in a different clone I would not have paid the ransom for just the ship as I could just as easily spend the 'ransom' not paid on buying a new ship. Also keep in mind that some ships are just for fun or a novelty and paying a large amount to keep it intact may not be that desirable for the hostage since the ship isn't actually crucial for anything. |
Herbstleyd
Atrocity.
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 04:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Miney Prospector wrote:[...] very nicely fit faction cruiser [...] the +5's I had plugged in [...] No crime for you, just punishment. I'm still trying to figure out what happened in my boxers just now. Please drop by any time!
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Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2011.09.21 04:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
motherfucking broken forums keep eating my posts
here is the primary ransom procedure ransom ship receive ransom blow them up anyways |
Destructor1792
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 07:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
During my Pirating days many moons ago the ransom process was fairing straight forward and took a few things into account:
Type of Ship victim was flying Fitted Mods Age of Victim Sec Status of Victim Time of day (i.e. just got up / bad day at the office, ect)
Alot of the time, you only have a very short window in which to ransom your Victim so sometimes a random figure is pulled out of the hat. anywhere from 10-30secs for said Victim to pay up or *BOOM* (depending on location in space)
If they pay, then they are let on their merry way. Sometimes with a few pointers on how to stay safe.
One thing any reputable pirate corp or pirate will never do is ransom a victim, take the money & then kill them anyway!! You end up getting known as untrustworthy which leads to less ransoms ( as ppl get to hear you shoot anyway) so kills off one type of income. This can also lead to further issues down the line if you move out of pirating (reputation has a habit of sticking!)
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seany1212
The Scowling Men The Laughing Men
3
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Posted - 2011.09.21 08:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Barbie D0ll wrote:motherfucking broken forums keep eating my posts
here is the primary ransom procedure ransom ship receive ransom blow them up anyways
Probably best that it does from the shiptoasting.
Its been a topic probably since the beginning of eve in terms of honouring ransoms, if you live in an area of low sec then you-¦ll lose out on income if your ransoming and then still popping the locals, this-¦ll just lead to others refusing to pay. Lowsec provides small amount of isk in comparison to the other parts of eve space so why reduce an isk source? |
Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
38
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Posted - 2011.09.21 08:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Plenty of pirates DO honour ransoms - but you can count the ones who do on the fingers of one hand. If you don't know your lowsec corps, it is somewhat risky, but many will state their intentions in their corp bio. |
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BuzzyBeagle
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
16
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Posted - 2011.09.21 10:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
what is this "honoring ransom" thing you speak of??? |
Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
38
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Posted - 2011.09.21 11:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
BuzzyBeagle wrote:what is this "honoring ransom" thing you speak of??? It's called honoUring.
Not that you know anything about either spelling |
Tallianna Avenkarde
Beasts of Burden
42
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 11:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
A full set of +3's is what 60m? set ransom fr 40-50 for someone that is expecting to pew, as they may have a few cheapish hardwirings.. carebears I'd ransom 60-80 to take into the fact that they have +4's. never assume people have +5's it just makes them laugh at you when you ask for 200m.
And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell. |
Traffic Warden
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
6
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Posted - 2011.09.21 12:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lady Go Diveher wrote:BuzzyBeagle wrote:what is this "honoring ransom" thing you speak of??? It's called honoUring.
Not if you're American.
Just saying. |
Zoe Alarhun
Drunken Space Irish
2
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Posted - 2011.09.21 13:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
I normally ask for a ransom amount based on ship hull + age of character. If they are very new ransom them for a song or joke.
Older characters will get charged more. Infact I may ask for your ship.
I always honor ransoms because word gets around and next time someone might be more willing to pay you. Also I've converted carebears to low sec pvpr's just by showing we arn't huge a-holes. yeah we will blow up your ship. But we won't smack talk you first and make fun of you. We will be polite as long as you are. We will joke and have fun, and if you are a uber noob then we might even give you some isk + tips and send you on your way.
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Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 19:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Don't fly what you cannot afford to replace.
Rule 1 of EVE fight club. I wouldn't pay a ransom period, being that EVE is what it is I don't know you or your intentions, nor do I have enough time to look up each and every basement dwelling pirate I might encounter nor do you have to honor ransoms, because even if I "gifted" you isk then got podded why take a double loss? Heck, to bad there isn't 3 second self destructs + instant pod destruction along with it or automatic logoffski in 3 seconds just to stick it to Captain RP Badass of the Galactic Highsea..."If you don't let me go, I will self destruct....No you wo...BANG!...$%^@ damn ******* ruining my game." Only in Bizzaro EVE would that be happening |
Cherry Nobyl
Shadow Strike Syndicate
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 19:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
I've always appreciated the more esoteric ransoms.
One friend was ransomed out of a haiku describing being ransomed, another had to track down a batch of exotic dancers and deliver via contract.
Be creative, it helps the publicity of it all. The game is more than the isk in a wallet. |
GeneralMartok
the united Negative Ten.
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 22:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
confirming the guys in rancer honor all ransoms |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
5
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Posted - 2011.09.22 08:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Traffic Warden wrote:Lady Go Diveher wrote:BuzzyBeagle wrote:what is this "honoring ransom" thing you speak of??? It's called honoUring. Not if you're American. Just saying.
Yeah, but outside of Amurrikka, in that mythical place known as the rest of the world, a lot of us speak English, not American.
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foksieloy
Rockets ponies and rainbows
14
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Posted - 2011.09.22 09:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
I think a good rule of thumb is to ask for a ransom that wouldn't hurt the target much even if you decide to blow him up. They get accepted.
Another system I seen used to good practice is the Taurean Eltanin system (:)) in which he asks the target to suggest a fair amount, no bargaining, if it is too low you are dead, you get one offer.
Very quick, and makes the target decide what he considers fair.
Disclaimer: I do not actually play this game, I just forum warrior. |
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Tigers
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.22 11:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Barbie D0ll wrote: broken forums keep eating my posts here is the primary ransom procedure ransom ship receive ransom blow them up anyways
qft |
Barakkus
701
|
Posted - 2011.09.22 20:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lady Go Diveher wrote:Plenty of pirates DO honour ransoms - but you can count the ones who do on the fingers of one hand. If you don't know your lowsec corps, it is somewhat risky, but many will state their intentions in their corp bio.
Not really, and they only put **** in their bios to try and convince people to pay them, then shoot them anyways. Never had a ransom honored, probably won't ever... like shooting until I'm dead anyways, so I don't bother anymore :P |
Cattegirn
Intellectual Wookies
3
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Posted - 2011.09.22 22:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
As regards those who don't honoUr ransoms, all it means is that you need to discount your ransom payments, as opposed to never pay them. If it's a rare thing that ransoms are honoured, that means pirates need to be asking for much less ISK than they otherwise would.
There is no value in a ransom you don't get paid. |
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis Moar Tears
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 00:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Traffic Warden wrote:Lady Go Diveher wrote:BuzzyBeagle wrote:what is this "honoring ransom" thing you speak of??? It's called honoUring. Not if you're American. Just saying. No. I'm American, and in any context of E-Honour, it's always with a U. (no, u)
Ex: Project Nemesis are all exemplary and honourable Internet Spaceship Pilots.
My personal guidelines for ransoms are the same as the "QFT" aforementioned: Ransom ship, receive ransom, blow up ship (and pod usually, they aren't ready to die when they've paid the ransom).
This is largely a product of our environment, or lack of one: hisec and wspace. Anywhere in hisec and wspace. And sometimes nullsec, or even lowsec. If I kill someone, I am quite unlikely to ever encounter them again in my travels.
If you are a local killer, for instance if you constantly terrorize the same systems for months on end (especially lowsec, but to some extend nullsec and even hisec as well), you actually have an opportunity to develop a rapport with the people you are ransoming. This is the situation in which ransoms are actually meant to be applied: there is an actual form of history you can reference.
There's plenty of groups that are known to honour/not honour ransoms in their specific home pockets of lowsec, but very few that actually have a reputation you could get someone to remember. Goonswarm comes to mind, those gloriously swarming bastards -- but they are among the largest and longest-lived organizations in all of EVE, built around the founding principle of lolkilleverything.
TL;DR it only makes sense to honour ransoms if you are a local kind of person or group and actually have a chance to develop a reputation at all. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 00:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
The whole ransom "system" is broke richard.
The game needs a "parley" system - a way to signal an attacker that you request parley or surrender or something like that. I've seen enough camps to wonder how in the heck anyone even manages to communicate in those mad houses.
There is also a lot of rage from the more serious pirates regarding the killmail addictions and the kill anything that moves smacktalking crowd. The later being the reason for lowsec having a low population, fewer outsiders taking risks, and players turtled up in highsec. Many arguments abound for and against such ideas.
There should be two kinds of pirate. Those that honor ransoms, and those that don't - and they should be flagged as such, if requested. An ISK transfer should come with an option to flag it as "ransom" with a timer - if you lose a ship to the target of the ISK transfer (not just the individual, cause I know how a gamesman thinks) the status of the honourless (or is that honor?) should be such that even other pirates who do honor (?) ransoms should not suffer a security status penalty for killing them outright (even perhaps a bonus?).
Until then, there will not be any difference between someone who honors a ransom and someone who does not, and no reason to treat them differently.
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Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis Moar Tears
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 07:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:The game needs a "parley" system - a way to signal an attacker that you request parley or surrender or something like that. There already is one.
Unlock everyone and scream for mercy in local.
dealwithit.gif
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: the status of the honourless (or is that honor?) should be such that even other pirates who do honor (?) ransoms should not suffer a security status penalty for killing them outright (even perhaps a bonus?). OH-EXPLOITABLE |
Usurpine
GDC Holding Shadow of xXDEATHXx
5
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Posted - 2011.09.23 08:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
My advice if you got a Pirate ransom request:
A good rule for you if you are asked for a ransom is to say nothing, not pay 1 isk to the pirate and be prepared to loose your ship and try to get away with your pod. If corp mates are around of course talk with him a lot, try to get your team mates into system, but still dont pay nothing. If he is still able to catch your pod and ransom you again, just say nothing and be prepared to wake up in your wakeup Station and immediately upgrade your clone.
Just ignore them, get a new ship, get new implants (better do not buy the most expensive ones) and continue the game and learn how to not get caught the next time.
If you undock in your new setup, just be prepared to loose it all again, do not fly what you cannot afford to loose.
If everybody is doing it that way, it will probably reduce the ransoms, it probably will also reduce the fun to kill people somehow.
Of course there are some pirates who honor ransom, its your decision to pay. But i already prepared myself to loose everything when i undocked the last time so i really dont care. I never pay ransoms, but on the other side until now i was never in bad situations to get caught by pirates and i am playing eve now for many years.
I personally don-¦t like people who kill others. When i am in need to kill hostiles i just want them to go away, including pod, so i am personally not interested in ransoms at all because i am trying to make a living in eve with other incomes then griefing people.
I tell you it really sucks if you loose your ship, loose your pod and implants and loose isk you paid to pirates who give a sh|t about honour. |
Russell Casey
Black Corsairs
7
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 11:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ransoming is hard and typically only succeeds when the target doesn't care about the isk or sees the amount they'd spend as a worthwhile risk because, even if they get killed anyway, their actual loss is going to hurt much more. With all the isk-printing alts on both sides, few people will offer/honor a ransom nowadays but there's still a few who'll pay/honor them if it's reasonable.
Overall, a successful ransom is not about estimating the value of a ship so much as it is to convince the person that paying you will be a better deal than having to replace what they've lost. |
Xiu Ju
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 14:35:00 -
[29] - Quote
As an Ex-prat who use used ransoms quite frequently a few years ago I'd say base your ransom on the value of the hull and realize that exorbitant prices (whether honored or not) only serve to anger those you ransom. BC hull, 15-20 mill or so, HAC 50 mill, CS 80 mill. Like mentioned take into account char age and corp. Industrial players tend to pay up more than another PvP'er
Pods are a different story. Depends on what ship they were flying, if you could notice any obvious implant effects and age of character.
I always honored my ransoms however I will never pay a ransom because I know there are many people who don't honour them. Your better to lose your ship like a man than risk paying someone who will probably pop you just for kicks and more loot/isk. There are certainly times I would have risked paying 50-150 mill for my pod but often the times when you would like to be ransomed your popped :/
If your ransomed and the ransom is under 10% of your total potential isk loss I'd say go for it (taking the prats don't know you have a lot more to lose) |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Limitless Inc.
99
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Posted - 2011.09.24 04:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
I'd just ask what I think I can lure out of the pilot. It is way too many aspects to take into consideration, plus gut feeling. |
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Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis Moar Tears
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 06:02:00 -
[31] - Quote
Usurpine wrote:...
...
I personally don-¦t like people who kill others....
I tell you it really sucks if you loose your ship, loose your pod and implants and loose isk you paid to pirates who give a sh|t about honour. You sound an awful lot like someone who does a lot of PVE and resents the PVP aspect of the game. |
James Arget
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
4
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Posted - 2011.09.24 07:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
Let's see.. generally only 20-50m for a capsule. They may be worth more than that, but the lack of trust yadda yadda no idea what implants yadda yadda, generally that's a secondary concern.
Generally my guys try to get the entire ship. When we jump a siterunner, if they're flying a T3 or similiar, we'll point them, neut them, and tell them that if they eject then their capsule lives. Given that their ship is pretty much a write-off when you're pointed in w-space by a group that's pvp fit, they can either decide to take the offer, or try to deny us as much as possible. Usually we blow them up, but a good few times we've walked off with a new Hulk or some such.
Edit: Of course, we honor our ransoms. Can't expect someone to cough up if they don't know you're going to keep your word. |
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis Moar Tears
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 07:46:00 -
[33] - Quote
Our standard procedure is to ransom really big, expensive stuff. Orcas, tengus, CNRs, sometimes hulks even. Expensive ships for usually around 300 million; they generally pay up, and then they generally instapop.
Give them 15 seconds, wait for them to pay, then blow them up for being late in paying; that works too. |
Sergio Ling
MALCONTENT5 Drowning Man
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 11:24:00 -
[34] - Quote
I was brought up to honour ransoms, (which isn't even what this thread is primarily about...but), and honouring them makes targets talk to others about how 'Megadickwads' are honourable shitfuckers - word of mouth is the only way you'll get paid. Generally I've priced ransom at shiptype, area of operation (have you caught an unfortunate/ill-informed traveller?) and your own gang composition, if any (everyone wants a slice) |
Disastro
Wrecking Shots BricK sQuAD.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 16:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
Cattegirn wrote:I'd like to hear the thoughts from experienced pirates (be that low or null sec) on how to evaluate what to ask for in ransom from a trapped player.
I've been ransomed myself a few times and always found the prices asked to be excessive. I believe that in those cases, the pirate is simply betting on eventually catching someone with some expensive implants.
But I wonder whether enough people travel in risky space with expensive implants to make this the right way to price ransoms. Anyone with a fair sample size might be able to fill me in there. I'm also concerned that the players who have expensive implants in null are going to be so rich they'll just replace the implants sooner than trust a ransom to be honored.
How essential is having a ship scanner and cargo scanner when setting up traps?
Just some stuff I'm curious about, thanks.
- Generally speaking.... when my corp pirates, and we go down to low sec every so often and spend a week or two going -10 (and recently spent a month or so in Oulley ganking people and demanding monocles), we always honor ransoms. We use the ransom money to SRP any ships we lose on the trip. Not honoring them would be foolish because we often got repeat customers and they would hardly choose to pay a second time if they got podded the first....
- As for what we ask for... that is a harder question. Realistically I assume you mean ransoming pods. We never ransom ships. We are there for the kill mails not for the money. We are more than happy enough just to rack up pod kill mails when people say no to a ransom offer. That happens about 95% of the time. About 4% of the time people discuss it and then say no. About 1% of the time someone agrees and pays. Asking for more money than the persons implants are going to cost them will result in a no (or more likely a F U). We generally look at the players age and standings which you can see by clicking on the player. If he has high mission running standings then you can assume he is a bear and will have good implants. A 1 month old bear isnt going to have +5 implants in. A 3 year old bear likely will have +4 or +5s. Asking for the same price as a full set will also likely get you a no. Generally we ask for bout half of what we expect a full set of +4s or +5s depending on the age of the character. If player is far younger then we may assume +2 or +3s and adjust the ransom for that.
- Realistically if you are hoping to make fantastic amounts of money from ransoming pods you will be disappointed. Most people arent going to pay more than a couple hundred million to save thier implants. Unless you get very lucky and catch someone with Slaves or Crystals or something in their head they would probably not consider paying much more than that. Most players will not have implants worth even that much.
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Andrea Griffin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2011.09.26 19:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
Zoe Alarhun wrote:Also I've converted carebears to low sec pvpr's just by showing we arn't huge a-holes. yeah we will blow up your ship. But we won't smack talk you first and make fun of you. We will be polite as long as you are. We will joke and have fun, and if you are a uber noob then we might even give you some isk + tips and send you on your way. People whine and complain that lowsec is empty, then the next time they catch some nubbin carebear they ransom him, blow up his ship anyway, spam LULNUB in local, and zap his pod. Do you really think that guy is ever going to come back to play? Hell no.
Like Zoe, I have on multiple occasions helped transform a hapless, clueless bear into an eager, blood thirsty wolf simply by not being a jerk. Many others have at least been given a few survival tips. Sure, that makes catching them harder the next time I see them in local, but at least there IS a next time.
If you catch someone who is really new you're not going to get any real money anyway, and nobody is going to be impressed that your faction fit T3 whatever was able to pew pew a rifter with a rail gun, 2 artillery, a small shield booster, and some reinforced bulkheads. So, you might as well engage in some light role play. Yarrrr! at them, get them involved in a conversation about how they have violated your sovereign territory and how upset you are that they have interrupted your rum drinking and parrot petting, and then demand 1 isk. It's a lot of fun.
More in line with the OP's topic, as others have said, a touch below the base price of the hull is a good general rule. I find that too many people ransom for far too much isk and that many people don't want to pay that much with the risk of losing the ship anyway. So, make them an offer they really can't refuse.
Pods are a little weird because you never really know if that nubbin has sold PLEX and stuffed his head with +5s, or if that 6 year old vet has an empty clone he expected to lose anyway. I usually never go higher than 40-50m on a pod; if someone refuses my initial ask, I'll drop it, and if they still say it's too much, I'll see if they would make ME a reasonable offer.
Unless they start to smack or whine. Then the deal is off and it's time for pew pew. |
Usurpine
GDC Holding Shadow of xXDEATHXx
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 07:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
Iam Widdershins wrote:Our standard procedure is to ransom really big, expensive stuff. Orcas, tengus, CNRs, sometimes hulks even. Expensive ships for usually around 300 million; they generally pay up, and then they generally instapop.
Give them 15 seconds, wait for them to pay, then blow them up for being late in paying; that works too. ^This. Forget about ransoms. Its not worth even thinking about it. I like your post, because with this post you confirm my theory. Thank You that you make it clear. And to answer your post, no, i am not doing PVE, i am playing eve different, making profit with sharing profit and helping noobs ingame. I probably make more isk every month then you are able to kill. And its ok, because someone needs to buy new ships. My business is only profitable because you blow up ships. |
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis Moar Tears
11
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Posted - 2011.09.27 08:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
Usurpine wrote:Iam Widdershins wrote:Our standard procedure is to ransom really big, expensive stuff. Orcas, tengus, CNRs, sometimes hulks even. Expensive ships for usually around 300 million; they generally pay up, and then they generally instapop.
Give them 15 seconds, wait for them to pay, then blow them up for being late in paying; that works too. ^This. Forget about ransoms. Its not worth even thinking about it. I like your post, because with this post you confirm my theory. Thank You that you make it clear. And to answer your post, no, i am not doing PVE, i am playing eve different, making profit with sharing profit and helping noobs ingame. I probably make more isk every month then you are able to kill. And its ok, because someone needs to buy new ships. My business is only profitable because you blow up ships. In a typical month I generally destroy about 15 billion isk. If you make more than that, then well done, that's quite the racket you've got going. I doubt one in a thousand EVE players makes that much.
I'm glad you're fine with people blowing up ships. I wish you were also fine with the people who do it, because honestly more of them are friendly, well-adjusted people than you will find among EVE's carebears (nearly all of them, in fact). I know this from multiple years of experience on both ends. |
Usurpine
GDC Holding Shadow of xXDEATHXx
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 13:43:00 -
[39] - Quote
Well, i am not. Quite impressing number, 15 bn /month. ccp must love you. |
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis Moar Tears
11
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 22:21:00 -
[40] - Quote
I strive to do my best. |
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Cattegirn
Intellectual Wookies
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.02 02:42:00 -
[41] - Quote
Andrea Griffin wrote:[quote=Zoe Alarhun] I think your post was excellent. |
Xaphenus
Divide By Zero Dark Phoenix Rising.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.02 18:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
NEVER pay a ransom, most will not honor it anyway , you'll end up losing twice your ship and the isk; best advice go down with your ship and fight to the death! |
Xylorn Hasher
Mean Corp Mean Coalition
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 18:56:00 -
[43] - Quote
Mean Coallition honour ransoms.
If any of it's pilot brake that rule ( we have only this one rule ) ISK for ransom will be returned and pirate will be podded as an example for others.
We ransom ships rarely, its better to have greasy killmail than ISK in most situations, but we ransom Pods whenever we can. Price depends of victim age. New players are ransomed for 10-50m usually, older for few hundreds. We do not ransom on gates, stations unless we are ready for potential trouble. |
Jacob cirth
Ion Corp. Citex Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 17:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
You would be surprised how rarely "word" gets around if a particular pilot honors ransoms or not. More often than not, the victim has never heard of you, people they tell will forget, and the next person you catch will never have heard of you.
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Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists Yarr Collective
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 17:42:00 -
[45] - Quote
Xaphenus wrote:NEVER pay a ransom, most will not honor it anyway , you'll end up losing twice your ship and the isk; best advice go down with your ship and fight to the death!
6 one way, half a dozen of another. I win either way.
As a mater of fact I would prefer your corpse, loot and tears anyway, especially if you are going to sport the e-honor crap. |
Iam Widdershins
FODT
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 22:09:00 -
[46] - Quote
Baaldor wrote:Xaphenus wrote:NEVER pay a ransom, most will not honor it anyway , you'll end up losing twice your ship and the isk; best advice go down with your ship and fight to the death! 6 one way, half a dozen of another. I win either way. As a mater of fact I would prefer your corpse, loot and tears anyway, especially if you are going to sport the e-honor crap. Eh, I don't see him being particularly Internet-Knightly here, more just realistic. |
Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists Yarr Collective
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 00:07:00 -
[47] - Quote
Iam Widdershins wrote:Baaldor wrote:Xaphenus wrote:NEVER pay a ransom, most will not honor it anyway , you'll end up losing twice your ship and the isk; best advice go down with your ship and fight to the death! 6 one way, half a dozen of another. I win either way. As a mater of fact I would prefer your corpse, loot and tears anyway, especially if you are going to sport the e-honor crap. Eh, I don't see him being particularly Internet-Knightly here, more just realistic.
Yes, docked up and gleaming scads of information from the noob channel to get that special "realistic" perspective.
|
Tamiya Sarossa
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 00:44:00 -
[48] - Quote
In general, I only pay ransoms to groups I'm familiar with, but it's generally very very easy to tell if someone is the kind of person who will hono~u~r them - you get a feel for it after awhile.
On the other hand, I rarely ask for ransoms because 99% of the time I'm fighting people who outgun me/running from blobs and not dying is the top priority, but I find if you hang around one area and are ~chill~ the locals will get pretty familiar with you and be willing to pay ransoms/encourage others to if you're a chill space brosef. I still don't do it often because of -meh- rewards, but it's a nice option to have when you feel bad about popping shitfit t1 BS you caught and are trying to take it easy on the sec. Just be polite and walk them through the process and in general don't be a douche and many will pay up.
EDIT: Oh and yeah go for ship value/or base it off age of character. I'll pay a lot for convenience, and so will many other older players. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
29
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 04:40:00 -
[49] - Quote
Hmmm....
We can pull up stats on every system we go to via the map controls.
Too bad there's no "ransoms honored" stat, or a "ransoms dishonored" stat.
Just saying.
I wonder if that would affect traffic in a system? Anybody?
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Iam Widdershins
FODT
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 04:48:00 -
[50] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Hmmm....
We can pull up stats on every system we go to via the map controls.
Too bad there's no "ransoms honored" stat, or a "ransoms dishonored" stat.
Just saying.
I wonder if that would affect traffic in a system? Anybody?
I would just spam "ransom honoured" in every system I went to or planned on living in. |
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Slimy Worm
your period
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 05:24:00 -
[51] - Quote
Use a countdown. "You have 20 seconds to pay or I blow up your ship."
20 19 18... |
Iam Widdershins
FODT
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 05:27:00 -
[52] - Quote
Slimy Worm wrote:Use a countdown. "You have 20 seconds to pay or I blow up your ship."
20 19 18... Nah dude, just tell them they have 20 seconds, wait for them to pay, then blow 'em up for being late. Simple as. |
Msgerbs
Ironclad Forge
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 06:54:00 -
[53] - Quote
Miney Prospector wrote:I got intercepted in a very nicely fit faction cruiser while taking a short cut through low sec. I paid the ransom, the request of which matched the going price of ship, because of the +5's I had plugged in. The guys who caught me were pros, and not just a few guys who got lucky. There was no chance of escaping in my pod. They might have gone ahead and blown the ship and me up if I paid, but I knew for a fact they would if I didn't. If I had crap implants in I would have let them blow it up and spent the cost of the ship to just buy a new ship. The main thing is if you get caught is to keep a level head and not just react out of anger. Once you're in the situation getting emotional about it isn't productive. As far as requesting ransoms, I'd say go for a little under the price of the hull because like I said, if I had been in a different clone I would not have paid the ransom for just the ship as I could just as easily spend the 'ransom' not paid on buying a new ship. Also keep in mind that some ships are just for fun or a novelty and paying a large amount to keep it intact may not be that desirable for the hostage since the ship isn't actually crucial for anything. You should always be able to get your pod out in lowsec. Unless you're in some imaginary system with no stations, no planets, no sun, and only 1 gate, you should always be able to. |
Iam Widdershins
FODT
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 07:01:00 -
[54] - Quote
Msgerbs wrote: You should always be able to get your pod out in lowsec. Unless you're in some imaginary system with no stations, no planets, no sun, and only 1 gate, you should always be able to.
That would be a pretty cool system.
They could put it over in the lowsec pocket by the EVE gate and name it Accident. |
guska Cryotank
Void Angels Nulli Tertius
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 07:44:00 -
[55] - Quote
I normally forget to stop shooting long enough to ransom... |
Krono Black
Light Shines Through
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 17:04:00 -
[56] - Quote
while i have never ransom someone i have been ransom a couple times. i for one have never paid because pirates break the rules ive listed..
If i am flying a ship worth 100mil im not going to give you 200 mil in a ransom. so dont ask so high.
Covertors are not hulks, a big issue i see with pirates is they see a mining barge and assume its worth alot of isk. Wrong.
Dont ask for 100 mil when im flying a covertor its a 20mil isk ship.
try to make sure you have the person locked down...... alot of pirates i have run into think just because you shot me once im going to pay. if its a stabbed ship their gonna run.
Dont add the price of the pod in the ransom. if their in a ship ask for the ship. most players, and ALL carebears assume they will get their pod out.
and always honor your ransom. you build a rep for not honoring your ransoms and no on will pay. Carebears do talk to one another. |
Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists Yarr Collective
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 18:56:00 -
[57] - Quote
Krono Black wrote:while i have never ransom someone i have been ransom a couple times. i for one have never paid because pirates break the rules ive listed..
If i am flying a ship worth 100mil im not going to give you 200 mil in a ransom. so dont ask so high.
Covertors are not hulks, a big issue i see with pirates is they see a mining barge and assume its worth alot of isk. Wrong.
Dont ask for 100 mil when im flying a covertor its a 20mil isk ship.
try to make sure you have the person locked down...... alot of pirates i have run into think just because you shot me once im going to pay. if its a stabbed ship their gonna run.
Dont add the price of the pod in the ransom. if their in a ship ask for the ship. most players, and ALL carebears assume they will get their pod out.
and always honor your ransom. you build a rep for not honoring your ransoms and no on will pay. Carebears do talk to one another.
It does not make any sense, what so ever, not to honor a ransom if you enjoy making the isk in that fashion. Problem lies in the whining of emo raging nerds flooding the pub channels showing everyone where the bad man touched them.
But here is the problem, people use the term pirates pretty loosely.
You guys call Goons, Mercs of any kind, RA, -A-, Orphanage, or any one that happens to shoot at you pirates. They may be gay in the way they enjoy pushing your **** in, but not pirates.
So if they happen to catch you, ransom you, then kill you....yeah that is how they roll. Pay attention to who operates in your area, you should know who they are and how they operate for the most part. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 19:31:00 -
[58] - Quote
If for some reason I am ransoming someone in highsec how likely I am to actually honor it is entierly dependent on how annoying it is to deal with the person and how much he/she cries about the situation.
If someone spends several minutes screaming abuse at me in local, then when I convo them continues to cry endlessly, insult me and takes ages to respond to my messages the chances are that I'm just going to blow him up anyway to make him cry more. At this point I will consider declaring war on his corp because people like that are fun to shoot at.
But if they guy responds promptly, agrees to the proposed sum and they pay it all up front then the guy can go home with his ship.
As for amount, hull + half the rig cost is fine for most stuff that isn't loaded with faction mods. |
Ka Jolo
The Tuskers
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 22:03:00 -
[59] - Quote
Something I've observed is that, whereas anonymous carebears are likely not to pay ransoms, experienced PVPers (including many pirates) are much more "trusting" and much more likely to pay. No doubt many of us who frequent this particular forum have a better-than-average idea of who does and doesn't honor ransoms.
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SC0T1SH WARRIOR
Zero For 0wned
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 04:13:00 -
[60] - Quote
Personal Rules: Never pay any ransom, regardless of what implants/ship you are losing, pod express me everytime.
if ransoming, any number kinda close to the price of whatever is pointed does. if they pay. shoot them summore, if they are still in ransom channel/chat after you shoot again..ransom again for half of what they just paid. (Most of the time, this will yield a "i only have X amount left... then take X amount )
Then pop the ship. Dont mind me, -ájust touching your stuff. |
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Stonecold Steve
I N E X T R E M I S Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 09:53:00 -
[61] - Quote
S2K... nuff said. Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they? |
Iam Widdershins
Ironclad Forge
31
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 10:13:00 -
[62] - Quote
Stonecold Steve wrote:S2K... nuff said. "S2K" means nothing to me, but you're in Fidelas Constans which is funny in and of itself. |
Jenn Makanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 23:50:00 -
[63] - Quote
I've spent some time thinking about ransoms, and wondered if something like describe in the post below would be useful/even used.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=158255 |
Iam Widdershins
FODT
31
|
Posted - 2011.10.09 01:41:00 -
[64] - Quote
Neat idea, but there are a few main problems I see.
One, as you pointed out, is that the system is easily gameable with alts; two, giving access to wallet journal is a very invasive thing: there is an AWFUL lot of information you can glean from that. Given both wallet journal and up-to-date kill log, you can pretty much hunt down someone while knowing what they are in and how it's fit at any time.
For three, the adoption rate would be very low due to the difficulty of setting up the API and the privacy concerns that it entails. |
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2011.10.09 05:46:00 -
[65] - Quote
Guidelines for ransoms? Too general to legislate for. Look at the replies in this thread, very wide range of outlooks, from honorable, businesslike gunslingers to lolganking smartbomb-gatecamp dingbats, high-minded highwaymen of the sky or slack-jawed, gibbering killmail hoes.
Ransom and the way it is used is a cultural phenomenon tied to locality. If the area and the pilot are strangers to you, you have little basis to make a judgement on. If you know the area, attacker or his corp, more leeway for shenanigans is allowed.
I've paid only one ransom..."You got implants you want to save?"..."I can pay 10 mil."..."Nice doing business with you." No problem. Roaming PVPer 'just' beat my PVE thrasher and pointed my pod, "Ransom?"..."Bite meh" oh dang wait my beta implants POP. That was as a newb. Sending a new pilot out with guidelines for such a situation would doubly blind them, since they would put their judgement aside to try to follow some procedure, which might not apply or even be a massive laugh for their attacker. |
Vricrolatious
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.10 21:16:00 -
[66] - Quote
The only rules I've ever followed when setting up a ransom are: 1: Honour it if they pay 2: Don't make an expensive requests
Honour it If they paid, let them go and make sure that if you have any gang / corp members in system that they honour it as well. If they don't honour it, return the ransom since you've broken the deal that you made with your victim.
Don't make expensive requests If the pilot in question is three weeks old, don't ask for enough isk to buy a new Command Ship, scale it down. Sure, they may be an alt, but you can't know that for sure. Myself, I'd rather ransom a pod but only because they don't shoot back, so base the pod ransom on the age of the character. Six year old pilot? Ask for more than you would from a two week old podder.I've asked for 20 to 50mil on pods and about half the cost of a hull on ships when the chance is there.
As far as paying ransoms go, I know that a lot of so called pirates don't care... they want the killmail, they want your isk and they want your loot. There are still groups out there that honour the ransom and will throw out or shoot their own member if they break that rule. Your best is to make a judgemnt call based on what you see. Are they giving people grief in local or have they been decent towards you (ignoring the whole shooting at you part.)
I've always honoured ransoms (that's not to say my alliance / corp mates do) and will even offer an escort out of system and I've had ransoms honoured when I've paid them.
Good hunting o7 WIDot, Best Dot, Even Sans Dot! -Vric |
Iam Widdershins
Ironclad Forge
34
|
Posted - 2011.10.10 22:15:00 -
[67] - Quote
Speaking of gang members, we've also done the technically-honourable method wherein a thoroughly tackled dude gets ransomed by a single individual from the fleet... say, they pay 150 or 250 million, and I'll let you go.
Then that one dude takes his point off and doesn't shoot while the rest of the fleet ROFLPWNs the poor guy's ship. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
37
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 01:40:00 -
[68] - Quote
Honoring of ransoms, a given system for it or not, might be the only thing that is going to change "garanteed gank" to "taking a chance".
Protection rackets or payoffs will boost the population even more.
The guys who want to don the pirate hat will have to kill the KM-Addicted Jan Brady crowd.
Possibly no other way.
|
Zoe Alarhun
Drunken Space Irish
24
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 13:23:00 -
[69] - Quote
Just this morning I ransomed someone (with the help of allround cool dude AKAHUKU JP) - He was a new character flying a BC. Settled the amount of ransom, then set him free. Provided some advice to help him and I'm gonna chat with him when I'm on again (had to go to work) - to try and get him on his feet in low sec.
Hopefully he tells his friends and we have more targets in the future. |
Killer Gandry
Shadow of the Pain
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 15:46:00 -
[70] - Quote
Never paid a ransom and never will.
This has several reasons:
There is always the chance the ransom won't get honoured.
Pay once and your corp might get decced in high sec because they seem to be pushovers.
Since I will fight till the pod the only cost remaining will be a new clone and a set of +3's
I like to look in the mirror nd see someone with a spine.
I also don't ask for ransoms. It's kill or be killed. End of story.
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Korous
Shadow Rogue Industries
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 18:47:00 -
[71] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Traffic Warden wrote:Lady Go Diveher wrote:BuzzyBeagle wrote:what is this "honoring ransom" thing you speak of??? It's called honoUring. Not if you're American. Just saying. Yeah, but outside of Amurrikka, in that mythical place known as the rest of the world, a lot of us speak English, not American.
We are somewhat aware of you people in the rest of the World. But when your as large as the United States is, you don't really matter to us. Unless you have oil, in which case...say hello to the USMC. |
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 13:13:00 -
[72] - Quote
Odds are they are going to 'splode you anyway. They already have the ransom and if there was anything on the hull worth ransoming they will want that too. I have seen ransoms honored twice in this game. Twice. I am sorry if this offends pirates that do hold a bargain but the rest of us have no way to know which ones you are so it's good iskies after bad for the rest of us. Short answer is flying low sec expect to get blown up. Flying high sec don't shoot at ninjas. All is well from there on out. No really honestly go out to OMS and get 'sploded a lot so you can get used to it and mitigate risk based upon experience. |
Earl oSatrun
Guys in Disguise
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 05:15:00 -
[73] - Quote
I've never paid a ransom. But have laughed hard at a certain newbie pirate who once tried to ransom me while I was in my t1 scanning frig in high sec. Silly boy wanted 50 mil isk, and he didn't even have me pointed... That was the one time that someone tried to get iskies out of me, I've never even met someone in Rancer who even bothered to ask for any ransoms. Meanies.
Note to pirates; make sure you've tackled the target before you try to ransom them. |
Zoe Alarhun
Drunken Space Irish
27
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 07:39:00 -
[74] - Quote
What ?! Why ? If you see someone getting pewed, chat in local and tell them if they pay you, you won't shoot them. You'd be surprised how many people will pay up even if you arn't even busy shooting them. |
Speed Four
the united Negative Ten.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 21:23:00 -
[75] - Quote
Earl oSatrun wrote:I've never even met someone in Rancer who even bothered to ask for any ransoms. Meanies. .
If it is a slow night in Rancer, we most likely will not even ask. If it is a newb...then I have asked for jokes instead. If we do ask for a ransom...we honor it. There has been occasions that an itchy trigger finger has killed a random pod and we have sent the isky back. You know, pesky pirates always want kills. Even pods.
Most people have already stated the obvious ways to calculate a ransom. Really comes down to what you are comfortable asking. Don't be an asshat. We have been in our pocket for awhile now and have a pretty good idea how to ask for ransoms. You will start to "get it" as you do more of it.
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Intakani Genntelle
Candelleon Angels
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 06:31:00 -
[76] - Quote
Don't let people bully you. If someone tries to ransom you, don't pay. Set your ship to auto-destruct and smile at them. Even if they catch your pod and you have 1 billion worth of implants and an inadequate clone, just smile and say no, just like this:
Just try it out.
You jump into a system and suddenly you're warp scrambled. A player messages you demanding 10 mil for your ship:
You're sitting in your pod now that they blew up your ship, and they tell you they want 50 mil for your pod:
And smile as you wake up in station knowing that this time you took their personal power away from them.
People who ransom are psychopaths who get off on robbing others' of their personal power. The only way to deal with this is to just smile unaffected and refuse. Eventually, they will become bored with this situation: Even if they're making more ISK this way, it will lack the stimulation and sadistic satisfaction that the psychopath craves, and they will fall into an apathetic depression phase and move on to something else. |
Earl oSatrun
Guys in Disguise
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 15:14:00 -
[77] - Quote
Intakani Genntelle wrote:You're sitting in your pod now that they blew up your ship, and they tell you they want 50 mil for your pod:
Ummm, if you're about to lose your ship in empire space (ie no bubbles) there's no reason to lose your pod. You should have a podsaver tab, and be spamming the warp button when you're in structure. Do that and the only way you'll lose your pod and implants will be if you're a victim of lag. |
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