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Cattegirn
Intellectual Wookies
0
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Posted - 2011.09.20 16:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'd like to hear the thoughts from experienced pirates (be that low or null sec) on how to evaluate what to ask for in ransom from a trapped player.
I've been ransomed myself a few times and always found the prices asked to be excessive. I believe that in those cases, the pirate is simply betting on eventually catching someone with some expensive implants.
But I wonder whether enough people travel in risky space with expensive implants to make this the right way to price ransoms. Anyone with a fair sample size might be able to fill me in there. I'm also concerned that the players who have expensive implants in null are going to be so rich they'll just replace the implants sooner than trust a ransom to be honored.
How essential is having a ship scanner and cargo scanner when setting up traps?
Just some stuff I'm curious about, thanks. |
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CCP Zymurgist
C C P C C P Alliance
126
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Posted - 2011.09.20 18:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm not an "experienced" pirate by any means but I have flown with enough to know some good rules of thumb about ransoms. The golden rule is to honor the ransom! You don't have to, but it makes it hard on people trying to make a living in low sec. Anyhow... It really breaks down into two main categories.
- Ransoming a ship?
- Ransoming a pod?
If you are ransoming a ship, try to base it about the base value of the hull. Yes that Brutix you just kited might have T2 blasters, a faction MWD, and maybe even officer tank mods, but you aren't garunteed it in the loot drop. Plus if the fit is that expensive, more reason for the sucker, er pilot, to pay up. The exceptions to this is haulers and T3. Bump up the ransom a little, and if you have a cargo scanner and they are filled with goodies, really stick it to them!
If you are ransoming a pod, base it off the age of the player. An older player will likely have more specialized implants they want to save.
Personally I haven't collected any ransoms... But my Brutix is still alive Zymurgist Community Representative CCP NA, EVE Online Contact Us at http://support.eveonline.com/pages/petitions/createpetition.aspx |
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Alyssa Yotosala
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.09.20 22:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Expecting a Pirate to act in an honorable fashion is the height of foolishness.
Forking over that large ransom with no guarantee of being let go, is practically giving money away in addition to getting blown up.
*You* may honor your ransom demands, but you have no control over what other pirates do.
The best course of action is to never pay ransoms and accept the loss ( because its the victims fault for getting caught )
Paying, and then getting blown up and podded once the payment is made just makes lulz and the resulting tears more valuable to the pirate. |
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
114
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Posted - 2011.09.20 23:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Never pay a high sec ransom since the theory with high sec gankers is that a target will only ever get caught once so you might as well milk them for what you can.
In low sec it is entirely different and you are more likely to be pod ransomed if anything but it's far far more likely that you can expect any ransom to be honoured as it is simply better for business. The exception is if you are caught by (most likely gate camping) smacktalking idiots in which case its mostly obvious they will dishonour. Any other circumstance it's worth paying the ransom if it is reasonable.
On the flip side:
As for how much you should be charging as a ransom? Age plays a big part, then you can also look up killboard stats for the player to see how he fits typically, other than that it's common sense. Carebears are less reasonably expected to pay a ransom but conversely could have the most valuable implants. Regular PVPers when caught will likely pay a moderate ransom but unless you know they have fancy implants theres a good chance they dont and you should price with their convenience in mind only.
If I get my pod caught (I've spent a year on a really laggy connection but still have to pew pew on occasion and shizzle happens) I would offer up about 20 to 40 m isk for my pod as it's usuallly not worth more and it's a nice amount to receive as ransom. Just don't be paying out to complete a-holes. "Why can't I be different and original, like everybody else?" |
Miney Prospector
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.09.20 23:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
I got intercepted in a very nicely fit faction cruiser while taking a short cut through low sec. I paid the ransom, the request of which matched the going price of ship, because of the +5's I had plugged in. The guys who caught me were pros, and not just a few guys who got lucky. There was no chance of escaping in my pod. They might have gone ahead and blown the ship and me up if I paid, but I knew for a fact they would if I didn't. If I had crap implants in I would have let them blow it up and spent the cost of the ship to just buy a new ship. The main thing is if you get caught is to keep a level head and not just react out of anger. Once you're in the situation getting emotional about it isn't productive. As far as requesting ransoms, I'd say go for a little under the price of the hull because like I said, if I had been in a different clone I would not have paid the ransom for just the ship as I could just as easily spend the 'ransom' not paid on buying a new ship. Also keep in mind that some ships are just for fun or a novelty and paying a large amount to keep it intact may not be that desirable for the hostage since the ship isn't actually crucial for anything. |
Herbstleyd
Atrocity.
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 04:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Miney Prospector wrote:[...] very nicely fit faction cruiser [...] the +5's I had plugged in [...] No crime for you, just punishment. I'm still trying to figure out what happened in my boxers just now. Please drop by any time!
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Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2011.09.21 04:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
motherfucking broken forums keep eating my posts
here is the primary ransom procedure ransom ship receive ransom blow them up anyways |
Destructor1792
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 07:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
During my Pirating days many moons ago the ransom process was fairing straight forward and took a few things into account:
Type of Ship victim was flying Fitted Mods Age of Victim Sec Status of Victim Time of day (i.e. just got up / bad day at the office, ect)
Alot of the time, you only have a very short window in which to ransom your Victim so sometimes a random figure is pulled out of the hat. anywhere from 10-30secs for said Victim to pay up or *BOOM* (depending on location in space)
If they pay, then they are let on their merry way. Sometimes with a few pointers on how to stay safe.
One thing any reputable pirate corp or pirate will never do is ransom a victim, take the money & then kill them anyway!! You end up getting known as untrustworthy which leads to less ransoms ( as ppl get to hear you shoot anyway) so kills off one type of income. This can also lead to further issues down the line if you move out of pirating (reputation has a habit of sticking!)
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seany1212
The Scowling Men The Laughing Men
3
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Posted - 2011.09.21 08:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Barbie D0ll wrote:motherfucking broken forums keep eating my posts
here is the primary ransom procedure ransom ship receive ransom blow them up anyways
Probably best that it does from the shiptoasting.
Its been a topic probably since the beginning of eve in terms of honouring ransoms, if you live in an area of low sec then you-Šll lose out on income if your ransoming and then still popping the locals, this-Šll just lead to others refusing to pay. Lowsec provides small amount of isk in comparison to the other parts of eve space so why reduce an isk source? |
Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
38
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Posted - 2011.09.21 08:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Plenty of pirates DO honour ransoms - but you can count the ones who do on the fingers of one hand. If you don't know your lowsec corps, it is somewhat risky, but many will state their intentions in their corp bio. |
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BuzzyBeagle
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
16
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Posted - 2011.09.21 10:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
what is this "honoring ransom" thing you speak of??? |
Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
38
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Posted - 2011.09.21 11:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
BuzzyBeagle wrote:what is this "honoring ransom" thing you speak of??? It's called honoUring.
Not that you know anything about either spelling |
Tallianna Avenkarde
Beasts of Burden
42
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Posted - 2011.09.21 11:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
A full set of +3's is what 60m? set ransom fr 40-50 for someone that is expecting to pew, as they may have a few cheapish hardwirings.. carebears I'd ransom 60-80 to take into the fact that they have +4's. never assume people have +5's it just makes them laugh at you when you ask for 200m.
And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell. |
Traffic Warden
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
6
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Posted - 2011.09.21 12:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lady Go Diveher wrote:BuzzyBeagle wrote:what is this "honoring ransom" thing you speak of??? It's called honoUring.
Not if you're American.
Just saying. |
Zoe Alarhun
Drunken Space Irish
2
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Posted - 2011.09.21 13:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
I normally ask for a ransom amount based on ship hull + age of character. If they are very new ransom them for a song or joke.
Older characters will get charged more. Infact I may ask for your ship.
I always honor ransoms because word gets around and next time someone might be more willing to pay you. Also I've converted carebears to low sec pvpr's just by showing we arn't huge a-holes. yeah we will blow up your ship. But we won't smack talk you first and make fun of you. We will be polite as long as you are. We will joke and have fun, and if you are a uber noob then we might even give you some isk + tips and send you on your way.
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Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 19:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Don't fly what you cannot afford to replace.
Rule 1 of EVE fight club. I wouldn't pay a ransom period, being that EVE is what it is I don't know you or your intentions, nor do I have enough time to look up each and every basement dwelling pirate I might encounter nor do you have to honor ransoms, because even if I "gifted" you isk then got podded why take a double loss? Heck, to bad there isn't 3 second self destructs + instant pod destruction along with it or automatic logoffski in 3 seconds just to stick it to Captain RP Badass of the Galactic Highsea..."If you don't let me go, I will self destruct....No you wo...BANG!...$%^@ damn ******* ruining my game." Only in Bizzaro EVE would that be happening |
Cherry Nobyl
Shadow Strike Syndicate
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 19:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
I've always appreciated the more esoteric ransoms.
One friend was ransomed out of a haiku describing being ransomed, another had to track down a batch of exotic dancers and deliver via contract.
Be creative, it helps the publicity of it all. The game is more than the isk in a wallet. |
GeneralMartok
the united Negative Ten.
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 22:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
confirming the guys in rancer honor all ransoms |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
5
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Posted - 2011.09.22 08:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Traffic Warden wrote:Lady Go Diveher wrote:BuzzyBeagle wrote:what is this "honoring ransom" thing you speak of??? It's called honoUring. Not if you're American. Just saying.
Yeah, but outside of Amurrikka, in that mythical place known as the rest of the world, a lot of us speak English, not American.
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foksieloy
Rockets ponies and rainbows
14
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Posted - 2011.09.22 09:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
I think a good rule of thumb is to ask for a ransom that wouldn't hurt the target much even if you decide to blow him up. They get accepted.
Another system I seen used to good practice is the Taurean Eltanin system (:)) in which he asks the target to suggest a fair amount, no bargaining, if it is too low you are dead, you get one offer.
Very quick, and makes the target decide what he considers fair.
Disclaimer: I do not actually play this game, I just forum warrior. |
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Tigers
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.22 11:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Barbie D0ll wrote: broken forums keep eating my posts here is the primary ransom procedure ransom ship receive ransom blow them up anyways
qft |
Barakkus
701
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Posted - 2011.09.22 20:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lady Go Diveher wrote:Plenty of pirates DO honour ransoms - but you can count the ones who do on the fingers of one hand. If you don't know your lowsec corps, it is somewhat risky, but many will state their intentions in their corp bio.
Not really, and they only put **** in their bios to try and convince people to pay them, then shoot them anyways. Never had a ransom honored, probably won't ever... like shooting until I'm dead anyways, so I don't bother anymore :P |
Cattegirn
Intellectual Wookies
3
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Posted - 2011.09.22 22:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
As regards those who don't honoUr ransoms, all it means is that you need to discount your ransom payments, as opposed to never pay them. If it's a rare thing that ransoms are honoured, that means pirates need to be asking for much less ISK than they otherwise would.
There is no value in a ransom you don't get paid. |
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis Moar Tears
10
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Posted - 2011.09.23 00:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Traffic Warden wrote:Lady Go Diveher wrote:BuzzyBeagle wrote:what is this "honoring ransom" thing you speak of??? It's called honoUring. Not if you're American. Just saying. No. I'm American, and in any context of E-Honour, it's always with a U. (no, u)
Ex: Project Nemesis are all exemplary and honourable Internet Spaceship Pilots.
My personal guidelines for ransoms are the same as the "QFT" aforementioned: Ransom ship, receive ransom, blow up ship (and pod usually, they aren't ready to die when they've paid the ransom).
This is largely a product of our environment, or lack of one: hisec and wspace. Anywhere in hisec and wspace. And sometimes nullsec, or even lowsec. If I kill someone, I am quite unlikely to ever encounter them again in my travels.
If you are a local killer, for instance if you constantly terrorize the same systems for months on end (especially lowsec, but to some extend nullsec and even hisec as well), you actually have an opportunity to develop a rapport with the people you are ransoming. This is the situation in which ransoms are actually meant to be applied: there is an actual form of history you can reference.
There's plenty of groups that are known to honour/not honour ransoms in their specific home pockets of lowsec, but very few that actually have a reputation you could get someone to remember. Goonswarm comes to mind, those gloriously swarming bastards -- but they are among the largest and longest-lived organizations in all of EVE, built around the founding principle of lolkilleverything.
TL;DR it only makes sense to honour ransoms if you are a local kind of person or group and actually have a chance to develop a reputation at all. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
10
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Posted - 2011.09.23 00:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
The whole ransom "system" is broke richard.
The game needs a "parley" system - a way to signal an attacker that you request parley or surrender or something like that. I've seen enough camps to wonder how in the heck anyone even manages to communicate in those mad houses.
There is also a lot of rage from the more serious pirates regarding the killmail addictions and the kill anything that moves smacktalking crowd. The later being the reason for lowsec having a low population, fewer outsiders taking risks, and players turtled up in highsec. Many arguments abound for and against such ideas.
There should be two kinds of pirate. Those that honor ransoms, and those that don't - and they should be flagged as such, if requested. An ISK transfer should come with an option to flag it as "ransom" with a timer - if you lose a ship to the target of the ISK transfer (not just the individual, cause I know how a gamesman thinks) the status of the honourless (or is that honor?) should be such that even other pirates who do honor (?) ransoms should not suffer a security status penalty for killing them outright (even perhaps a bonus?).
Until then, there will not be any difference between someone who honors a ransom and someone who does not, and no reason to treat them differently.
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Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis Moar Tears
10
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Posted - 2011.09.23 07:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:The game needs a "parley" system - a way to signal an attacker that you request parley or surrender or something like that. There already is one.
Unlock everyone and scream for mercy in local.
dealwithit.gif
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: the status of the honourless (or is that honor?) should be such that even other pirates who do honor (?) ransoms should not suffer a security status penalty for killing them outright (even perhaps a bonus?). OH-EXPLOITABLE |
Usurpine
GDC Holding Shadow of xXDEATHXx
5
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Posted - 2011.09.23 08:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
My advice if you got a Pirate ransom request:
A good rule for you if you are asked for a ransom is to say nothing, not pay 1 isk to the pirate and be prepared to loose your ship and try to get away with your pod. If corp mates are around of course talk with him a lot, try to get your team mates into system, but still dont pay nothing. If he is still able to catch your pod and ransom you again, just say nothing and be prepared to wake up in your wakeup Station and immediately upgrade your clone.
Just ignore them, get a new ship, get new implants (better do not buy the most expensive ones) and continue the game and learn how to not get caught the next time.
If you undock in your new setup, just be prepared to loose it all again, do not fly what you cannot afford to loose.
If everybody is doing it that way, it will probably reduce the ransoms, it probably will also reduce the fun to kill people somehow.
Of course there are some pirates who honor ransom, its your decision to pay. But i already prepared myself to loose everything when i undocked the last time so i really dont care. I never pay ransoms, but on the other side until now i was never in bad situations to get caught by pirates and i am playing eve now for many years.
I personally don-Št like people who kill others. When i am in need to kill hostiles i just want them to go away, including pod, so i am personally not interested in ransoms at all because i am trying to make a living in eve with other incomes then griefing people.
I tell you it really sucks if you loose your ship, loose your pod and implants and loose isk you paid to pirates who give a sh|t about honour. |
Russell Casey
Black Corsairs
7
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Posted - 2011.09.23 11:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ransoming is hard and typically only succeeds when the target doesn't care about the isk or sees the amount they'd spend as a worthwhile risk because, even if they get killed anyway, their actual loss is going to hurt much more. With all the isk-printing alts on both sides, few people will offer/honor a ransom nowadays but there's still a few who'll pay/honor them if it's reasonable.
Overall, a successful ransom is not about estimating the value of a ship so much as it is to convince the person that paying you will be a better deal than having to replace what they've lost. |
Xiu Ju
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 14:35:00 -
[29] - Quote
As an Ex-prat who use used ransoms quite frequently a few years ago I'd say base your ransom on the value of the hull and realize that exorbitant prices (whether honored or not) only serve to anger those you ransom. BC hull, 15-20 mill or so, HAC 50 mill, CS 80 mill. Like mentioned take into account char age and corp. Industrial players tend to pay up more than another PvP'er
Pods are a different story. Depends on what ship they were flying, if you could notice any obvious implant effects and age of character.
I always honored my ransoms however I will never pay a ransom because I know there are many people who don't honour them. Your better to lose your ship like a man than risk paying someone who will probably pop you just for kicks and more loot/isk. There are certainly times I would have risked paying 50-150 mill for my pod but often the times when you would like to be ransomed your popped :/
If your ransomed and the ransom is under 10% of your total potential isk loss I'd say go for it (taking the prats don't know you have a lot more to lose) |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Limitless Inc.
99
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Posted - 2011.09.24 04:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
I'd just ask what I think I can lure out of the pilot. It is way too many aspects to take into consideration, plus gut feeling. |
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