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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2010.02.04 23:05:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: "Jaqu"
like I repetedly said, its not my fault CCP wrote a gamecode that effectivly gets you warned, or if repeted, banned, for swearing. Its not my fault man. But im gonna use it to my advantage nonetheless
This quote, taken from a friend of mine a few minutes prior, is indicative of why rules on language need to be looked at.
TL;DWrite
Rules are abuseable: player A kills player B; player B is in a famous EVE 'low' and swears at player A; player A petitions player B; player B receives warning from a GM, or a ban if warned several times before.
Do I even need to say how ****ed up this is? Why do we need this rule in a game rated T (teenagers swear more often than any other age group!)? Doesn't this conflict with EVE's main selling point; being a "cold, harsh universe"?
Discuss, support. We need to stop this, using CCP as your own private army to make someone else miserable is lame as ****.
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10/10: Where is your God now? |
SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2010.02.04 23:08:00 -
[2]
Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 04/02/2010 23:08:42
 -post.
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10/10: Where is your God now? |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.02.04 23:50:00 -
[3]
Really easy to not get banned for swearing. If you don't swear in chat (or threaten bodily damage - as has been another famous way to get banned), you don't get banned. Simple.
Fix Local |
De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Special Projects Executive
The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.02.05 01:09:00 -
[4]
Welcome to the part where self-control and personal responsibility become important.
It's not like you didn't have to actually type the words in and hit enter. Swear all you like outloud - yell and scream if that's what floats your boat.
But you'll have a hard time convincing CCP to change their stance and lose that teen rating, since that will severely limit where they can sell those nice boxed editions of the game.
--Vel
Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats. |
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.02.05 01:33:00 -
[5]
CCP have absolved themselves from responsibility with the warning that states online interactions are unmoderated.
CCP themselves said **** many times at the fanfest keynote address, not to mention the HTFU theme song.
So ****ing what if I have a poor **** of a ****ing vocab. Get the **** over it.
Any ban from CCP based on language is completely hypocritical when compared to the culture that has been fostered and the freedom that has been given to players.
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SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2010.02.05 01:46:00 -
[6]
Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 05/02/2010 01:46:43
"Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB"
Indeed, EVE will instantly lose the T rating when the rule is loosened on something that isn't rated in the first place.
I am not proposing the rule is removed entirely; changing the particular line to:
"You may encounter and converse with people who are rude, offensive, belligerent, and who may use indecent, obscene, and/or threatening or harassing language while playing the Game. You may report any extreme instances of such behavior to CCP."
Would be enough to stop blatant abuse of the system for the sole purpose of getting someone in trouble for utterly meaningless infractions of a rule that very few people adhere to in the first place; a large portion of the subscriber base - in particular victims to corp theft, scams, and such - swear in game, is it right that I could petition every instance of swearing of these people, causing even further backlogs in the petition queue, and having them unfairly warned or banned? (*blue-face'd; gasps*)
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10/10: Where is your God now? |
De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Special Projects Executive
The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.02.05 03:32:00 -
[7]
Originally by: SupaKudoRio
Would be enough to stop blatant abuse of the system...
You have far more faith in the good nature of humanity than I do, obviously.
--Vel
Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats. |
SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2010.02.05 04:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
You have far more faith in the good nature of GMs than I do, obviously.
Fixed that for you.
But no, not particularly; if I did, this thread wouldn't exist.
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10/10: Where is your God now? |
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.02.05 06:52:00 -
[9]
heh a matar just lost a FW fight.
So now the Amarr that killed him has to wait 2 days without any skill training while his frivolous petition is dealt with.
Victory through petition?
geeeeez this is stupid.
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GIGAR
Domini Umbrus
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Posted - 2010.02.05 07:09:00 -
[10]
I do agree that this is stupid.
If anything, CCP should make a toggle-able "profanity" filter, like seen in most other MMOs.
Most people I've played Eve with don't seem to give a flying rat about whether you swear a little (although I realize that there's probably some people who gets scared and go hides under their bed when they hear hear anything worse than "Guys, that was the most poor performance I've ever seen!")
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2 Years later, mining continues to be the most overlooked game mechanic in Eve |
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Flying ZombieJesus
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Posted - 2010.02.05 13:28:00 -
[11]
that **** is ****ing ******ed and needs to go the **** away right ****ing now
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Ebeneser Scrooj
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Posted - 2010.02.06 04:02:00 -
[12]
Not supported.
Just FYI: If you've ever been petitioned in/around Rens for foul language in Local chat, you're welcome.....and thank you. I enjoy pressing the petition button and reporting you. 
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.02.06 08:46:00 -
[13]
My favourite topic of all time 
Children swear a lot, adults much less .. what changes? Answer: Society.
Children live a protected existence, sequestered from the "real" world with very little obligations, commitments or accountability.
Children swearing ultimately comes down to poor parenting.
With no limitations or rules they invariably turn into obnoxious punks. When adulthood hits, they are a lot worse off than those who were eased into the rules governing society as a whole.
Eve is CCP baby, and as any responsible parent they have chosen to set down some ground-rules which just happen to include treating each other with a modi****of respect and decency.
If you are unable to communicate using a proper tone, then think of Eve as school. You'll thank CCP when you find out that the job interviews, loan-applications and so forth go a lot smoother.
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Maxsim Goratiev
Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.02.06 12:04:00 -
[14]
I did not even know this exists.. this is stupid.
Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes.StevieSG |
GIGAR
Caldari
Domini Umbrus
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Posted - 2010.02.06 12:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
My favourite topic of all time
Children swear a lot, adults much less .. what changes? Answer: Society.
Children live a protected existence, sequestered from the "real" world with very little obligations, commitments or accountability.
Children swearing ultimately comes down to poor parenting.
With no limitations or rules they invariably turn into obnoxious punks. When adulthood hits, they are a lot worse off than those who were eased into the rules governing society as a whole.
Eve is CCP baby, and as any responsible parent they have chosen to set down some ground-rules which just happen to include treating each other with a modi****of respect and decency.
If you are unable to communicate using a proper tone, then think of Eve as school. You'll thank CCP when you find out that the job interviews, loan-applications and so forth go a lot smoother.
I would say that there is a significant difference between, say, getting wtfpwned in Eve, and being slightly annoyed, and then going to a job interview.
Most people don't swear for every 3. word when they are "chilled".
So if you hit your finger with a hammer, you say "Gosh, mylord, my thummy sure hurts now."?
Manners should be subject to the area, and people you are working with, and not regulated by some outside source. I thought independence from the devs was what Eve was all about?
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2 Years later, mining continues to be the most overlooked game mechanic in Eve |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.02.06 15:24:00 -
[16]
To the people who are supporting this topic:
STFU.
Seriously....
There is a reason I enforce a no smack talk rule in my corporation.. its because peoples big mouths tend to get the better of them.
The solution is to really STFU.
So don't say anything at all.
(mild attempt at humor)
Not supporting.
=========================
CEO of Shadow Cadre
http://www.shadowcadre.com
========================= |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.02.06 16:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: GIGAR
So if you hit your finger with a hammer, you say "Gosh, mylord, my thummy sure hurts now."?
There is a huge difference between the real-life death threats and derogatory language I see in local on a daily basis and an outburst.
Either way, what is said/muttered privately and what is typed in public are not even the same ball-park. I sincerely doubt anyone will petition a "DAMMIT!" outburst or that a GM will do anything other than smirk.
Originally by: GIGAR
Manners should be subject to the area, and people you are working with, and not regulated by some outside source. I thought independence from the devs was what Eve was all about?
I think it is safe to say that the Eve player base has failed miserably at policing itself. Even with Dev/GM interference most threads sounds like something my 7 year old nephew says when he doesn't get his way.
Watch some interviews of Jane/John Doe on the news, while language should be subject to area it most often is not .. once a person gets used to speaking/thinking/acting in a certain way they WILL fall back on it when they meet resistance, few people have the willpower to fight this natural response.
PS: If you are able to remain "chilled" at a job interview you either don't really want the job or you are on drugs .. interviews and exams are the most stressful situations modern man faces.
There exists an entire industry whose sole purpose is helping people cope with them.
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Brother Kasimir
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Posted - 2010.02.06 16:41:00 -
[18]
I personally report any foul or abusive language I see in public chat channels. And I'm a big fan of CCP's decision to keep in-game language moderate. If I see over use of such language in private chat channels I will ask the offending person to tone it down or, if I'm a guest, I'll just close the channel.
Use of vulgar / obscene language creates an environment that alot of people don't want to be in. Considering that there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to use that sort of language makes it a no brainer that it should be against the rules. If vulgar / obscene language were allowed then instances of abuse and harrassment would become more common. You could argue that one doesn't necessarily lead to another but even my 7 year old has enough common sense to see the correlation.
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Flying ZombieJesus
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Posted - 2010.02.06 16:44:00 -
[19]
People in this game need to grow the **** up.
You're reporting someone for swearing? Really? The response from CCP should be "What are you, some ****ing ***** or something? Get a spine"
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Brother Kasimir
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Posted - 2010.02.06 16:46:00 -
[20]
Yes, I have reported people for swearing. It's against the rules. See how that works?
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FU22
Space Perverts
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.06 18:56:00 -
[21]
Edited by: FU22 on 06/02/2010 18:58:02
Import a swear filter ingame that you can switch on and off at your choosing.
Those who don't care about swearing can see it and the delicate flowers can get them filtered, problem solved.
edit for more on topic-ness: And by importing this if you have it switched off and try and abuse the use of GMs they can simply come along and say "Well you have the filter turned off so you obviously aren't bothered by swearing" And those with it turned on can't even see the swear words.
Originally by: Millie Clode
Dear santa, for christmas I would like an endless supply of noobs to march across my screen so I can pretend I'm playing duck hunt
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Jonah Pod
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.06 19:52:00 -
[22]
Can't support this.
CCP shall expressively encourage people unable to deal with their emotions in an appropriate way?
No.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.02.07 05:03:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
My favourite topic of all time
Children swear a lot, adults much less .. what changes? Answer: Society.
Children live a protected existence, sequestered from the "real" world with very little obligations, commitments or accountability.
Children swearing ultimately comes down to poor parenting.
With no limitations or rules they invariably turn into obnoxious punks. When adulthood hits, they are a lot worse off than those who were eased into the rules governing society as a whole.
Eve is CCP baby, and as any responsible parent they have chosen to set down some ground-rules which just happen to include treating each other with a modi****of respect and decency.
If you are unable to communicate using a proper tone, then think of Eve as school. You'll thank CCP when you find out that the job interviews, loan-applications and so forth go a lot smoother.
Children swear more than adults? I don't know what kind of children and adults you know, but that is not my experience at all.
Seriously though, this isn't a problem. The rule is in place for extreme cases, but most people aren't so anal-retentive that they report the occasional bit of foul language. We're mostly grownups here, we can handle a few naughty words, and if you're stupid enough to treat local like a rap music sing-along where it might offend random people, well, you probably deserve a petition.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Endemic Aggression
Exalted.
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Posted - 2010.02.12 14:58:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Laechyd Eldgorn on 12/02/2010 14:59:29
Teen rating belongs to hello kitty online or something.
If someone is bothered about MY CHARACTER being rude towards them they can pretty much go stick their tongue in dark places. Or just push block button.
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Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
Gung-Ho
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Posted - 2010.02.12 15:03:00 -
[25]
If anything ppl should get banned FASTER for swearing and smack talk  .
There's enough filth on the internet as it is and though I enjoy part of that filth (and even add to it) I don't think it needs to be part of EVE.
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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
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Posted - 2010.02.13 09:08:00 -
[26]
It is interesting that the forums and the game operate under different rules when it comes to profanity (I found this out when petitioning a word used on a station name that the forums censor, yet the station name was allowed to remain). I'd support a thread that proposes policies between the two be made more consistent, but relaxing them at all? Certainly not.
You don't like it? Don't swear. Your lack of self-control is your own problem.
/Ben
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.02.13 11:28:00 -
[27]
NOT supported.
Grow up, it's all in your own hands, etc. etc.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.02.16 00:43:00 -
[28]
**** you all if you want to impose your twisted sense of morality on me.
If you want to demonstrate your self-control and superior breeding then go for it.
Personally...... I don't like being told what I can and can't say.
Individual words no matter how vulgar do not hold this power.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ISil7IHzxc
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.02.16 03:45:00 -
[29]
I just got gagged for using the same words CCP use in their keynote fanfest address.
I was simply using language used by CCP staff as that was the community standard I have been shown by CCP.
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BunnyBuzzBunny
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Posted - 2010.02.16 17:02:00 -
[30]
Edited by: BunnyBuzzBunny on 16/02/2010 17:02:34
I got gagged for saying the words ***** and balls from GM Zerat while a buddy of his used the F-word over and over in the same chat and never got gagged. Figure that one out. It was the same conversation and he said/did nothing to the other guy.
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Liol Wongsta
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.02.16 17:40:00 -
[31]
No support here.
If you cant work out a way to express your displeasure about something other than swearing, maybe you should be spending more time in school rather than in eve.
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Zurin Arctus
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Posted - 2010.02.17 20:04:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Zurin Arctus on 17/02/2010 20:05:22
Supported. This is not Hello Kitty Island Adventure.
Perhaps there could be a client-side profanity filter for people who don't care to see dirty words?
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Cearain
ReSlavers
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Posted - 2010.02.17 22:22:00 -
[33]
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GM Zerat
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Posted - 2010.03.13 08:24:00 -
[34]
Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny
Edited by: BunnyBuzzBunny on 16/02/2010 17:02:34
I got gagged for saying the words ***** and balls from GM Zerat while a buddy of his used the F-word over and over in the same chat and never got gagged. Figure that one out. It was the same conversation and he said/did nothing to the other guy.
First of all that's gross misrepresentation of the facts. You didn't just say those two words, you wrote sexually explicit material which is a direct violation of our terms of service. Simply saying "balls" will not get you gagged. We also do not always gag someone simply for using the "F" word, it depends upon the context. And it also depends upon your prior history.
Secondly we do not monitor conversations like you assume. If you have a problem with something someone says, you need to petition it specifically. If you did that, then we judged that in the context that it was in it was not bad enough to warrant a gag. Needless to say, going on the forums and spreading half-truths won't help your case.
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Marlona Sky
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.03.13 08:27:00 -
[35]
Originally by: GM Zerat
Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny
Edited by: BunnyBuzzBunny on 16/02/2010 17:02:34
I got gagged for saying the words ***** and balls from GM Zerat while a buddy of his used the F-word over and over in the same chat and never got gagged. Figure that one out. It was the same conversation and he said/did nothing to the other guy.
First of all that's gross misrepresentation of the facts. You didn't just say those two words, you wrote sexually explicit material which is a direct violation of our terms of service. Simply saying "balls" will not get you gagged. We also do not always gag someone simply for using the "F" word, it depends upon the context. And it also depends upon your prior history.
Secondly we do not monitor conversations like you assume. If you have a problem with something someone says, you need to petition it specifically. If you did that, then we judged that in the context that it was in it was not bad enough to warrant a gag. Needless to say, going on the forums and spreading half-truths won't help your case.
Pwnd.
Hard.
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EdTeach
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Posted - 2010.03.14 14:22:00 -
[36]
Not supported.
Random outbursts, while childish, are to be expected and are dealt with on a case-by-case basis through the petition function. Constant swearing and threats because you feel the internet is your private domain to do or state whatever you want is not only anti-social... it is mistaken.
CCP owns the area you are in. If you cannot abide by extremely simple rules, then do not play here. Your 14 bucks a month does not grant you whatever rights YOU feel you should have. It grants you the privledge to experience THEIR invention on THEIR terms. If you feel that you cannot truly get the most from EVE without putting profanity in chat ... the door is over there. Don't let it hit you on the way out.
As was stated above ... screaming at your comp is one thing, but intentionally typing in chat and pressing enter knowing you are violating the rules shows either immaturity or a complete disregard for others around you.
Plus, again as stated above, there is no way CCP will throw away their 'T' rating to allow swearing and threats.
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Taxesarebad
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Posted - 2010.03.14 18:18:00 -
[37]
Cursing should not be against the rules. If your QQ about cursing quit
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Scerolikk Teromni
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Posted - 2010.03.14 20:18:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Scerolikk Teromni on 14/03/2010 20:18:22
Originally by: EdTeach
You could go the "Firefly" route and use Chinese maybe(maybe not).
Well then you'll just be petitioned by the macro miners and ISK spammers... and that's no good.
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CommanderData211
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Posted - 2010.03.15 08:00:00 -
[39]
I fail to see how swearing is childish. There have been many people in this thread that just use the pat response, "Well if you can't use anything but swears to articulate your point, then go back to school/STFU" :).
I personally use profanity like if I keep doing so I'm going to win something, and you know what, I'm a college graduate! Here's the rub though, it's all about the context in which the words are used. A GM in this post even stated that they don't just ban people or flag them for using moderate profanity. Sexually explicit harassment is another issue entirely.
I believe in freedom of speech, but where is the line drawn? Additionally, this is not an argument about free speech. Last I checked, EVE was solely under the jurisdiction of CCP. They want EVE to have a teen rating and who could blame them? Why would you want to?
Bottom line is, I use profanity frivolously and in so doing fall well short of the harassment line, but I gladly accept that the freedom is limited so that all of us don't have to endure some moron sending up a wall of nonsensical profanity, just because he can.
Again though, in no way does using profanity make one more childish than someone who chooses not to. They are just words. And I know someone is going to reply, "Well then just use other words". I just don't want to. I like them. I like the way they sound. I like what they stand for. And I love the visceral meanness of them.
As for CCP's prerogative to outlaw naughty speech, get over it. It is not changing, and if it did, even the staunchest advocates of free speech and swearing would be blown away by what would follow.
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GM Zerat
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Posted - 2010.03.15 09:52:00 -
[40]
I'd also like to add to this thread that petitions involving swearing, or harrassment, are dealt with on a case-by-case basis by various different people in the GM department. There is bound to be some discrepancy between the rulings since we have to use our own judgement in such cases, whether a gag or warning is warranted or not. If someone has an issue with a ruling, they should petition it and a Senior GM or Lead GM will review the case. We also tend to not spend too much time investigating such cases, as we get quite a few of them in our stuck queue and it's more important to keep the queue down than play Sherlock Holmes in a single case.
In essence though using profanity ingame is frowned upon, and any use of profanity could potentially get you a gag or warning. If we officially gave everyone a "quota" on how much profanity they are allowed to use, the ingame chat would quickly become littered with profanities and abusive language which would be seriously offputting to many of our customers. Public chat, especially official channels such as rookie help, recruitment channel etc, have stricter rules in this regard.
Also if you suspect a player petitioned you not because he/she was truly offended by your language, but rather just to get you in trouble, then please petition it as doing that is not allowed. We will punish players who try to manipulate us to get revenge on other players, providing we have enough evidence to take action.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.03.15 20:15:00 -
[41]
Honestly, it is usually the guy who gets ganked, then threatens to hunt you down irl, slash your tires, toilet paper your dog, and beat you up with a rubber chicken (or some variation) that gets gagged/banned. The tantrums people throw on Eve then are shocked when they get banned are pretty epic. |
Robert Tables
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Posted - 2010.03.15 22:08:00 -
[42]
Originally by: SupaKudoRio
Originally by: "Jaqu"
like I repetedly said, its not my fault CCP wrote a gamecode that effectivly gets you warned, or if repeted, banned, for swearing. Its not my fault man. But im gonna use it to my advantage nonetheless
This quote, taken from a friend of mine a few minutes prior, is indicative of why rules on language need to be looked at.
TL;DWrite
Rules are abuseable: player A kills player B; player B is in a famous EVE 'low' and swears at player A; player A petitions player B; player B receives warning from a GM, or a ban if warned several times before.
This is simply an example of griefing taken to an extreme. Player A is simply trying to maximize screwing over Player B. It's expanding on an atmosphere EVE already encourages. You see it a lot on internet forums too. Some posters will act like complete douches, but then run to the Report button as soon as someone takes them to task for it. The difference of course is that EVE is designed to emphasize its unfriendly aspects.
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
My favourite topic of all time
Children swear a lot, adults much less .. what changes? Answer: Society.
Children live a protected existence, sequestered from the "real" world with very little obligations, commitments or accountability.
Children swearing ultimately comes down to poor parenting.
With no limitations or rules they invariably turn into obnoxious punks. When adulthood hits, they are a lot worse off than those who were eased into the rules governing society as a whole.
Eve is CCP baby, and as any responsible parent they have chosen to set down some ground-rules which just happen to include treating each other with a modi****of respect and decency.
If you are unable to communicate using a proper tone, then think of Eve as school. You'll thank CCP when you find out that the job interviews, loan-applications and so forth go a lot smoother.
It's more of a Teen thing. Teens, especially young teens, swear because it's edgey and "bad" and they think it makes them look cool. This is exacerbated by the fact that the internet allows people to dissociate with their actions, and not have to hold themselves responsible for the consequences. This is also what encourages the young punks on XBL to behave the way they do.
When you hit early-mid 20s, you usually learn that swearing isn't nearly as cool as you thought, and it simply becomes a tool of emphasis or frustration.
As for the issue at hand, simply put, the rules are the rules, and everyone here has explicitly agreed to follow them. If you snap off inappropriately at someone because they did something the game specifically allows them to do, then it's your own fault.
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