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Iaoth
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Posted - 2010.02.05 19:08:00 -
[1]
The Caldari are corporate shills. They live and exist for one reason only, and that is the furtherance of the corporation through increased profits.
The Amarr are religious zealots, who shun materialism and who exist only for the furtherance of their "cleansing religion".
Why, then, are they allied? It would seem at first glance that their two societal ideals are completely and utterly incompatble, and therefore intolerable to each other..............
I can understand the Gallente/Minmatar symbiosis............the Gallente are the tree hugging "anything goes" freedom liberals of the universe, and the poor Minnies are just trying to get out from under the whip.......... but the Caldari/Amarr thing just has me stymied.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2010.02.05 19:14:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Iaoth
Why, then, are they allied?
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Think of the alliance between America and Russian during WWII.
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Magnus Nordir
Caldari
Nordir Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.05 19:19:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Magnus Nordir on 05/02/2010 19:19:20
I'd imagine the Amarr weren't too happy about the Federation helping with the minnie rebellion while they were busy getting their asses handed to them by the Jove.
So yeah, it's more or less an enemy's enemy thing.
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Only those who surrender are lost |
Iaoth
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Posted - 2010.02.05 19:20:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Iaoth
Why, then, are they allied?
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Think of the alliance between America and Russian during WWII.
I gave that serious consideration, and it might work if both parties weren't so fervent in their beliefs.
It doesn't hold up to logic given each entity's staunch stance.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.02.05 19:23:00 -
[5]
note that the caldari like the amarr more than the amarr like the caldari.
I dunno guess the amarr could use the tech, or they were both just looking for an ally as both were warring gallente/minmatar separately
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Cat o'Ninetails
Rancer Defence League
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Posted - 2010.02.05 19:23:00 -
[6]
i dont know why they cant all just get on and make love instead of war lol
x
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2010.02.05 19:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Iaoth
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Iaoth
Why, then, are they allied?
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Think of the alliance between America and Russian during WWII.
I gave that serious consideration, and it might work if both parties weren't so fervent in their beliefs.
It doesn't hold up to logic given each entity's staunch stance.
Amarr and Caldari are not so dissimilar as you might think.
Whether it be through patriotism manipulated by the corporate state (Caldari) or fanaticism manipulated by the state religion (Amarr) both cultures revolve around central authority superceding individual freedom of choice.
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If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
damgood85
Gallente
Gladiators of Rage
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.02.05 19:29:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
i dont know why they cant all just get on and make love instead of war lol
x
because we have a teen rating to think about.
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Originally by: CCP Lemur
Dear angry customer!
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Mia Restolo
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Posted - 2010.02.05 19:32:00 -
[9]
The Caldari don't have a problem with the Amarrian slave practices because slavery produces cheap trade goods. As you pointed out the Caldari are mainly concerned with profits, screw the ethics, many low caste Caldari are virtually corporate slaves anyway.
Amarrians hate the Gallente for helping free Minmatarr slaves. The Caldari and the Gallente have simply been at war for a very long time. Obviously there's also animosity between former slaves and their old keepers. The Caldari profit from the Amarrian's slave labor practices, and freed slaves reduce profit margins, so that's where the Caldari Minmatarr issues come from.
So it's mostly a case of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. |
Raavanan
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Posted - 2010.02.05 19:35:00 -
[10]
The amarr and Caldari are friends only out of necessity, coz they dint have a choice.
Just before the battle of Vak'atioth, Amarr and Gallente were in brink of war coz some some amarr dude shoots down the gallente ambassador. So gallente actively help minnies. But then Vak'Atioth happens and it never comes to direct war among them, instead they ally with caldari..
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NEMESIS SIN
0Zunu
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Posted - 2010.02.05 19:36:00 -
[11]
Because economics and religion have always been tied together 
Caldari, in wanting to better their state and increase its wealth, will benefit immensely from a nation as wealthy and powerful as the Amarr.
In retrospect, Caldari playing nice with the Amarr suits the Amarrian ego, and their religious fanaticism, just fine.
Its all RP of coarse but it is actually pretty true to life.
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Iaoth
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Posted - 2010.02.05 19:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: NEMESIS SIN
Because economics and religion have always been tied together
Caldari, in wanting to better their state and increase its wealth, will benefit immensely from a nation as wealthy and powerful as the Amarr.
In retrospect, Caldari playing nice with the Amarr suits the Amarrian ego, and their religious fanaticism, just fine.
Its all RP of coarse but it is actually pretty true to life.
It is the RP angle that interests me. I can't see forgiving such heathens, no matter who the other players are. They are all infidels.
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Avon
Caldari
ORAC Futures
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Posted - 2010.02.05 19:43:00 -
[13]
The Khanid Kingdom is proof that they are well suited as allies.
アニメ漫画です
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2010.02.05 19:46:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Iaoth
it might work if both parties weren't so fervent in their beliefs.
Fervent in their beliefs? Did you skip over the part where I mentioned the alliance between the Americans and the Soviets?
In comparison, as others have noted, the differences between the two right wing, authoritarian, militaristic empires are not as significant as you seem to imagine. Don't worry though, once the wayward slaves are back under the yoke and those decadent, cheese-eating **** junkies have been eliminated the valiant Caldari people will be gently adopted into the splendor of Imperial service.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Military Research and Manufacturing Corp.
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Posted - 2010.02.05 20:14:00 -
[15]
Why are Chavez and Ahmadinejad friends?
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'In Eve, as in real life, if you are bored it's your own fault.' |
Xauxau
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.02.05 20:18:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Amarr and Caldari are not so dissimilar as you might think.
Whether it be through patriotism manipulated by the corporate state (Caldari) or fanaticism manipulated by the state religion (Amarr) both cultures revolve around central authority superceding individual freedom.
That's a stretch, especially when both the Caldari and Amarr both are pretty open about what they actually share in common: a big aggressive neighbor, governed by a thoroughly corrupt senate, each member of whom feels absolutely entitled to interfere in the affairs of others if it might win her a few votes or some campaign cash from some large domestic corporate interest.
The Caldari and the Amarr don't have much in common and are not really friends. The Gallente just have a way of bringing other people together.
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Lexx Khadar
Minmatar
Free Minmatar Union
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Posted - 2010.02.05 20:57:00 -
[17]
Part convenience, its mutually beneficial, Whilst some of the Amarr are zealots a lot are wealthy, unscrupulous merchants more than willing to look the other way when doing business with the Caldari state corporations. Also the amarr being the single biggest political entity work well with the caldari being one of the most advanced of the four empires. Presents many opportunities for them to benefit whilst having mutual enemies in the gallente/minmatar.
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Virgil Travis
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.05 21:37:00 -
[18]
Cos they're lonely?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.02.05 21:50:00 -
[19]
Originally by: damgood85
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
i dont know why they cant all just get on and make love instead of war lol
x
because we have a teen rating to think about.
killing people is less of an offense then people having sex
****ed up world 
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Killer Gandry
Caldari
TerraNovae
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Posted - 2010.02.05 21:51:00 -
[20]
Simple.
We Caldari don't care if you have slaves or get more slaves or whatever with them. We don't care if you want to run after an Emperor, heck we run after a chairman ( till a new chairman removes the old one from power)
We conduct our bussiness without condemning you of your practices and as such we just accept you.
We also don't hold much love for them sissie Gallente who kinda aren't too friendly with you because they prefer to help them ductape ship pilots more.
Yet another thing that binds us.
So yes, it's mainly Amarr accepting the least of all bads as socalled partners incrime over really bugging off 3 factions.
Plus we like your dresses, atleast you don't hide your female side as much as the Gallente try ( and fail )
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Zeredek
Gallente
Echo 1 Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.02.05 22:00:00 -
[21]
BECAUSE OF KHANIDS!
Originally by: Rolk Anderson
Words cannot describe the hatred I feel for you Zeredek.
Originally by: Bai ZongTong
THEN DIED????
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Skex Relbore
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Posted - 2010.02.05 23:01:00 -
[22]
I'd say it's mostly a case of the enemy my enemy may not be my friend but they can at least be my ally.
Also I think too many people playing this game read liberal the American sense as in leftist/socialist rather than the European sense of laise faire free marketeers which is what the Gallente actually are rather.
Remember this was a game created by Europeans you should think in European terms of politics rather American.
I'd say that the WWII comparison is less the American (liberal laise fair) Soviet union (Left/socialist) and more a Germany (fascist corporate state) and Japan (Right wing military religious empire).
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2010.02.05 23:13:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Xauxau
Originally by: Ranger 1
Amarr and Caldari are not so dissimilar as you might think.
Whether it be through patriotism manipulated by the corporate state (Caldari) or fanaticism manipulated by the state religion (Amarr) both cultures revolve around central authority superceding individual freedom.
That's a stretch, especially when both the Caldari and Amarr both are pretty open about what they actually share in common: a big aggressive neighbor, governed by a thoroughly corrupt senate, each member of whom feels absolutely entitled to interfere in the affairs of others if it might win her a few votes or some campaign cash from some large domestic corporate interest.
The Caldari and the Amarr don't have much in common and are not really friends. The Gallente just have a way of bringing other people together.
I'm not saying that having common enemies isn't a factor, however I view that as a symptom rather than the condition.
To put it in the simplest terms:
Gallente/Minmatar = Freedom
Amarr/Caldari = Control
Just give it some thought.
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If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.02.06 00:15:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
i dont know why they cant all just get on and make love instead of war lol
x
That's a good point. You should head to Rens some night and 'facilitate peace' with the crowds of Minmatar.
My deepest sympathies.
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Benri Konpaku
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Posted - 2010.02.06 01:54:00 -
[25]
Amarr are good business for Caldari and that's about it. Remember Caldari have actually developed and sold antidotes for Amarr's slave control, so is not like they are supportive of their cause.
Viva Caldari.
Also, Amarr knows they need to keep up with technology even if they don't want to, and Caldari does business no questions asked. So it's convenient. |
Arimeth
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.02.06 02:35:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Arimeth on 06/02/2010 02:42:24
The State and the Empire are allies out of necessity. When you have the Federation who is not fond of you at all (and you not fond of them either) and the Republic being it's pet, apart from Khanid Kingdom who already are close business partners with the State, you dont really have anyone else to turn to. Amarr Empire is a huuuge monster of a market and consumer so that helps Caldari business I think. There is a patriot Caldari mega corporation, Wiyrkomi, that had a lot of success as a manufacturer of energized plating and containment field products, now I would imagine the Amarr being a huge customer when it comes to energized plating, either through Khanid Kingdom or straight between Empire and State... that's just one of examples of how the two benefit eachother. On the slavery subject, people should not forget that Caldari value freedom (hint Caldari independence war with Gallente) and I bet dont feel indifferent about slavery, in fact I am sure they dont like it at all, however they will not go as far as to tell you what you should and shouldnt do... as long as it doesnt happen within their borders they will just mind their own business.
On a different note, the Caldari and Minmatar have a lot of things in common, unfortunately the Gallente have the Republic in their pocket and the Caldari probably view the Minmatar Republic to be a politically unstable entity to do any serious business with.
EDIT: Spelling
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Kapse Locke
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Posted - 2010.02.06 02:40:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
killing people is less of an offense then people having sex
****ed up world
Well, yeah. If they're ugly people.
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Khemul Zula
Amarr
Keisen Trade League
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Posted - 2010.02.06 04:29:00 -
[28]
Basically it comes down to the idea that the Amarr and Gallente were the superpowers. They would probably complement each other pretty well as allies, but they are the main competition the other faced early on. The Amarr allied with the Caldari to gain power over the Gallente, and the Gallente allied with the Minmatar to gain power over the Amarr. It isn't so much that they agree with each other (hell the Gallente tried to crush the Caldari demand for freedom, but entirely support the Minmatar demand for freedom) but that they share a common enemy.
Take away the bigger threat and they'd probably turn on each other.
Originally by: GM Horse
I've sadly misplaced my magic "find farmers in ravens" button. 
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Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
Cat's Cradle
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Posted - 2010.02.06 07:12:00 -
[29]
Together they basically form the Republican Party (US Politics).
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CSM - Bring back Medium Shader! |
Disclose
Profit Union
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Posted - 2010.02.06 07:46:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Iaoth
The Amarr are religious zealots, who shun materialism
But their ships are made out of GOLD!
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