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Stop whining about skill point discrepancy.

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Awesome Possum	Posted - 2010.02.10 21:25:00 - [1] TLDR: "Wah you guys all have millions more sp than me, we need to change the mechanics!" No, you just need to stop whining. Wall: This whine has absolutely nothing to do with making things "even", its a desire of the whiners to try be feel more powerful. If you want things to be so even, why aren't you playing other MMOs that have just released? Everything's even there! "That's not fair, I just started playing EVE!" So? Game's been out +6yrs now, you JUST now heard of EVE? I doubt it, seriously. But I ramble. The problem with this thinking is one simple fact: There will always be people better than YOU, and YOU cannot handle it. Even if EVE was reset today, there would still be people better than you tomorrow. There would be people who had more SP than you in a week, and you would just continue to whine. This isn't YOUR game, and you have no right to be any good at it. There's people who can train a rifter pilot for a few weeks and go tear 'ceptors in half. Vids are on My Eve. Stop whining, do a little studying, crunch some numbers, and go have fun with what you have. Every day your skill points are adding up, and more bittervets are rage quitting. And before you know it, you'll be the one with 500mill SP, laughing at newbies crying for a global reset. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2010.02.10 21:30:00 - [2] I have 17mil SP can I help? Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
Last Wolf Rage For Order	Posted - 2010.02.10 21:41:00 - [3] People just don't seem to get the fact that there is a finite number of skill points that affect what a pilot can do at any given time. a 2m sp pilot can be just as deadly in a frig as a 200m pilot. Granted he also can fly every other ship in the game, and that is what separates Old players from New. VERSATILITY Not out right Old > New. Besides, I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down
Nooma K'Larr Minmatar Cat's Cradle	Posted - 2010.02.10 21:46:00 - [4] Originally by: Last Wolf People just don't seem to get the fact that there is a finite number of skill points that affect what a pilot can do at any given time. a 2m sp pilot can be just as deadly in a frig as a 200m pilot. Granted he also can fly every other ship in the game, and that is what separates Old players from New. VERSATILITY Not out right Old > New. Not true. a 200m skill point pilot can wipe the floor with a 2m sp pilot simply because his skills allow for the use of more advanced weapons and weapons use. ___________________________________________________ CSM - Bring back Medium Shader!
Kyra Felann Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.10 21:53:00 - [5] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Originally by: Last Wolf People just don't seem to get the fact that there is a finite number of skill points that affect what a pilot can do at any given time. a 2m sp pilot can be just as deadly in a frig as a 200m pilot. Granted he also can fly every other ship in the game, and that is what separates Old players from New. VERSATILITY Not out right Old > New. Not true. a 200m skill point pilot can wipe the floor with a 2m sp pilot simply because his skills allow for the use of more advanced weapons and weapons use. His point is valid. Just substitute 5 or 10 million SP instead of 2. His point is that there is a finite, and not terribly large, amount of SP that will affect your performance in a frigate, not whether the number he listed was accurate or not.
Manfred Rickenbocker	Posted - 2010.02.10 22:03:00 - [6] Originally by: Kyra Felann Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Not true. a 200m skill point pilot can wipe the floor with a 2m sp pilot simply because his skills allow for the use of more advanced weapons and weapons use. His point is valid. Just substitute 5 or 10 million SP instead of 2. His point is that there is a finite, and not terribly large, amount of SP that will affect your performance in a frigate, not whether the number he listed was accurate or not. Right, and if the devs gave you all the gold-plated awesome-tastic weaponry right at the beginning of the game, would you really have earned anything for yourself? How long before you got bored and wandered off? Where's the sense of achievement? I hate to use an old argument, but being old and having had to start with a measly 80k SP (gallente frig 1, spaceship command 1, hybrid 1, mining 1) and having to work upwards was a real pain. Having to work for all the ISK I earned for my first cruiser... it was good dirty fun. Yeah, there are certain levels you need to attain, and yeah sometimes hardware can make a difference, but learning to pilot and fit better makes a difference too. Cutting your teeth with cheap garbage instead of losing your afore-mentioned gold-plated equipment makes crashes a lot softer as well. ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times.
WhiteGhostBear Furs of New Eden	Posted - 2010.02.10 22:07:00 - [7] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr a 200m skill point pilot can wipe the floor with a 2m sp pilot simply because his skills allow for the use of more advanced weapons and weapons use. A 200m SP pilot can shoot better, tank harder, and fly faster. That doesn't make him a good pilot.
Nooma K'Larr Minmatar Cat's Cradle	Posted - 2010.02.10 22:11:00 - [8] Originally by: WhiteGhostBear Originally by: Nooma K'Larr a 200m skill point pilot can wipe the floor with a 2m sp pilot simply because his skills allow for the use of more advanced weapons and weapons use. A 200m SP pilot can shoot better, tank harder, and fly faster. That doesn't make him a good pilot. Yeah but considering EVE is not joystick controlled and all you can do is point, orbit, click...you dont have to be a good pilot. ___________________________________________________ CSM - Bring back Medium Shader!
Leaving Eve Boo Hoo Federation	Posted - 2010.02.10 22:12:00 - [9] I've killed Ravens in frigates. I've killed T3 in frigates. I've killed (ganked) barges with two cruisers. I've killed cruisers with noob ships. I've killed dreads with battleships. None of this was solo of course, but we've done it. It doesn't matter how many skillpoints you have, if they have more friends than you. If you're under 1mSP, why not get some friends? If they won't help you, get some decent friends?
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.02.10 22:13:00 - [10] 2 pilots with very few skill points, but well placed, can wtfpwn a single pilot with many times more skill points. Also, a pilot with very few skill points can survive quite well in the sandbox. You can choose many paths in the begining, but not all of them. -------------------------------------------------- I'm so Old I can remember when QQ was TT
randomname4me	Posted - 2010.02.10 22:19:00 - [11] Edited by: randomname4me on 10/02/2010 22:20:37 Originally by: Nooma K'Larr a 200m skill point pilot can wipe the floor with a 2m sp pilot simply because his skills allow for the use of more advanced weapons and weapons use. Say it takes 2 million skill points to fly the optimal fit for a certain frig. Then a player with 2 million skill points dedicated to that frig + fit and nothing else is just as capable as a player with 200 million skill points 2 million of which are dedicated to that frig + fit. The remaining skill points on the older player are moot since the have no value in the fight at hand. At that point its all down to player skill in which case the more experienced pilot has the advantage not necessarily the older one. for all you know the 200 million isk pilot may have all his experience in mining and industry and is a total fail in PVP. Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Yeah but considering EVE is not joystick controlled and all you can do is point, orbit, click...you dont have to be a good pilot. You clearly do not understand EVE PVP. Originally by: CCP Navigator Thread has degenerated into nothing but spam. Locked. Petition\|Successful\|Reimbursement\|Lag Pick 3
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.02.10 22:35:00 - [12] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Originally by: WhiteGhostBear Originally by: Nooma K'Larr a 200m skill point pilot can wipe the floor with a 2m sp pilot simply because his skills allow for the use of more advanced weapons and weapons use. A 200m SP pilot can shoot better, tank harder, and fly faster. That doesn't make him a good pilot. Yeah but considering EVE is not joystick controlled and all you can do is point, orbit, click...you dont have to be a good pilot. No danger of me having to go to church any time soon then.
N'tek alar Minmatar	Posted - 2010.02.10 22:38:00 - [13] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Originally by: WhiteGhostBear Originally by: Nooma K'Larr a 200m skill point pilot can wipe the floor with a 2m sp pilot simply because his skills allow for the use of more advanced weapons and weapons use. A 200m SP pilot can shoot better, tank harder, and fly faster. That doesn't make him a good pilot. Yeah but considering EVE is not joystick controlled and all you can do is point, orbit, click...you dont have to be a good pilot. So, Just to clarify. You think that if you have 15 mill sp, And someone else has 20 mill sp, the 20 mill sp is guaranteed to win in a 1v1 fight between you? ------------------------- I'm not shirtless damnit!
Gladys Pank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.02.10 22:41:00 - [14] Skillpoints beyond a basic level do not matter Since we are talking difference in noobs and 200m sp pros (which there are none as yet anyway) here is something to consider: To be equal in ships... Here is a basic but effective frigate setup. One that can work solo in 0.0 and in pvp gangs of just about any style. You could substitute it for a different race if you like but the point remains valid regardless... [Incursus, 200 plate + MWD] Damage Control II 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1MN MicroWarpdrive I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Small Hybrid Ambit Extension I Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I Small Anti-Explosive Pump I Warrior II x1 So, how does skillpoints / time affect this ship? In 24 hours: In order to have a pvp viable setup, as a bare minimum, you can fly this with a super cheap tech I fitting in a little over 24 hours. It would be even less waiting if you go with an afterburner and slightly better guns. What you are lacking here are overall support skills which boost the ship and modules performance. At this stage you are clearly at a skillpoint disadvantage, dps, speed etc will be much lower than someone who has been playing for a month or so. 2.5 Weeks: Next, in order to fly this with the tech II modules as listed it would take about 2.5 weeks of skilling. Much of this skilling time goes immediately to improve your ship with better support skills and a couple of longer skills towards the end of the training time to get the tech II modules. 35 days Now we have the same modules the 'pros' have, you want to bring up the overall performance of the ship across the board. Aiming for level III in every skill that affects the ship gives you a very solid and competitive skillbase. SO... to train up every single skill that improves this setup to level III, including thermodynamics, would take a mere 35 days, a little over a month if you will. Bear in mind that this actully includes several of the skills to level IV or V even since they are pre requisites for some of the modules. Many of these skills will also be a very good starting point for any cruisers / barges / industrials you might also be thinking of flying later. MAXED SKILLS And to be over the top, and illustrate how unrealistic expecting everyone to be maxed out in ships is, lets consider maxing out this setup. To train everything up by 1 or 2 more levels, to have what would be considered 'every skillpoint advantage' this ship could possibly benefit from... you are looking at something over a year and a half! At this point you have trained up 30 million skill points and can only fly a handful of Gallente tier I frigates. This doesn't even consider armour repping modules etc etc. Of course maxing out a frig like this is over the top, but that just further proves that higher skill points don't automatically give you the edge. Invest in a couple of solid ship types and you can catch up in no time. The point of balance is to have most skills trained to IV, with some of the more vital ones trained to V, and some of the lesser ones can stay at III frankly. For a frigate like above, you can be on a realistic par skillpoint wise in about two to three months. None of which is relevant if you haven't developed any piloting skill in that time. Some players have played for 2 years and can't fit a ship for crap. Others have played since 04 but have just as much of a chance in an engagement as a 2 month old. I've bested 03 players before, either through piloting or circumstance, and have had my ass handed to me by players half my age. Skillpoints beyond a basic level do not matter It's the player skill and knowledge of the game you acquire while playing tha ~ Soar Like a Penguin
Ryhss Caldari 42nd Airborn	Posted - 2010.02.10 22:42:00 - [15] Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki I have 17mil SP can I help? 12.7million SP's here and no complaints, hell I ws happy when I hit 10 million SP's! This is my sig, stop reading.
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2010.02.10 22:44:00 - [16] Edited by: Tulisin Dragonflame on 10/02/2010 22:43:57 Better yet, just let people train a "Raw Pointcard" skill, every time they get 1,000,000 SP in said skill, they get a card that they can then sell. The card can be consumed for 1,000,000 SP. Yay, SP market! To the suggestions forum!
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.10 22:48:00 - [17] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Yeah but considering EVE is not joystick controlled and all you can do is point, orbit, click...you dont have to be a good pilot. Just for the record, if you feel that clicking "orbit" takes too little skill, you could always try right-clicking your ship and selecting "self destruct". The effect is much the same. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Triple Entendre Emergence Inc.	Posted - 2010.02.10 22:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame Edited by: Tulisin Dragonflame on 10/02/2010 22:43:57 Better yet, just let people train a "Raw Pointcard" skill, every time they get 1,000,000 SP in said skill, they get a card that they can then sell. The card can be consumed for 1,000,000 SP. Yay, SP market! To the suggestions forum! Consuming cardboard is a bad idea. Especially if it's printed, as it tastes really bad.
Tason Hyena Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.02.10 23:00:00 - [19] The people being better than you is a fact of life, but people aren't playing a game to feel mediocre. Your argument is "Wait a year or two, and you'll finally feel good enough." Especially in PvP, people don't like that. The only solution is to point out what low SP characters can do well, and make them feel that their contributions are valid as much as the high sp people.
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2010.02.10 23:02:00 - [20] I have 56,500 SP and I can honestly tell you, it's all the SP I need to do the things I want to. PS. I really wanted to say something antagonistic here to annoy some whiny git into an emopost but just too tired right now. Sorry Mr Epeen
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.10 23:04:00 - [21] Originally by: Mr Epeen PS. I really wanted to say something antagonistic here to annoy some whiny git into an emopost but just too tired right now. Sorry In the immortal words of Tim Bradstreet: Suck cheese, sharkface! (Will that do? ) ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
lollerwaffle Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2010.02.10 23:04:00 - [22] Edited by: lollerwaffle on 10/02/2010 23:05:14 Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Originally by: WhiteGhostBear Originally by: Nooma K'Larr a 200m skill point pilot can wipe the floor with a 2m sp pilot simply because his skills allow for the use of more advanced weapons and weapons use. A 200m SP pilot can shoot better, tank harder, and fly faster. That doesn't make him a good pilot. Yeah but considering EVE is not joystick controlled and all you can do is point, orbit, click...you dont have to be a good pilot. 3/10 for the responses generated. You guys got trolled by someone who claims all he/she does is login to train skills until such time that her/his account runs out (was it 6months again?) or he/she has 'enough' skills to do whatever. Shame on you people. You should know better by now. Also, did this really need another topic? It's bad enough with that other thread. Couldn't you have kept it there? Originally by: salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think? Originally by: AFK Cloaker
Virgil Travis Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.10 23:10:00 - [23] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Originally by: Last Wolf People just don't seem to get the fact that there is a finite number of skill points that affect what a pilot can do at any given time. a 2m sp pilot can be just as deadly in a frig as a 200m pilot. Granted he also can fly every other ship in the game, and that is what separates Old players from New. VERSATILITY Not out right Old > New. Not true. a 200m skill point pilot can wipe the floor with a 2m sp pilot simply because his skills allow for the use of more advanced weapons and weapons use. Sell that 200 mill sp character to someone who has only been playing the game for a few days or few weeks and watch them crash and burn until the player actually starts to figure out how to put those SP to good use.
Oddymandius Minmatar	Posted - 2010.02.10 23:17:00 - [24] Just to add a noob perspective on this: I have under 5 million sp. I've lost 15 or so ships so far, survived a few times when I should have died, and *****d my way onto a few killmails. In none of the fights where I survived was it because of my skillpoints; on none of the occasions I died would having 30 million SP have saved the ship I was flying in those circumstances. It was always either pilot error or bad luck.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2010.02.10 23:28:00 - [25] Who whines about this? I know we get the occasional misguided newbie who thinks they can never compete with someone who has more SPs, but really who actually whines about this enough to make a rant about it? edit: and just to remind you, there is still no divider between posts and sigs.
Zaerlorth Maelkor The Maverick Navy IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.11 05:15:00 - [26] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Originally by: WhiteGhostBear Originally by: Nooma K'Larr a 200m skill point pilot can wipe the floor with a 2m sp pilot simply because his skills allow for the use of more advanced weapons and weapons use. A 200m SP pilot can shoot better, tank harder, and fly faster. That doesn't make him a good pilot. Yeah but considering EVE is not joystick controlled and all you can do is point, orbit, click...you dont have to be a good pilot. Spoken like a true newbie. However, you might want to consider a few things, first of all; I now have one of those annoying sigs. second; you should probably move on to some more interesting things than reading this sig.
WhiteSavage Ever Flow Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.11 05:20:00 - [27] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Originally by: Last Wolf People just don't seem to get the fact that there is a finite number of skill points that affect what a pilot can do at any given time. a 2m sp pilot can be just as deadly in a frig as a 200m pilot. Granted he also can fly every other ship in the game, and that is what separates Old players from New. VERSATILITY Not out right Old > New. Not true. a 200m skill point pilot can wipe the floor with a 2m sp pilot simply because his skills allow for the use of more advanced weapons and weapons use. There are t1 and t2 weapons... am i missing something? 1 v1 fights never/rarely happen. WHY DO YOU WHINE
Virgil Travis Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.11 05:24:00 - [28] I have 17 million SP, can I help?
Huan CK Gallente GK inc. Panda Team	Posted - 2010.02.11 05:39:00 - [29] Well, we've all started out on low sp, and to be honest: The skill system in eve is awesome! I'm loving it :) Anyhow, anyone who has trained his first lvl 4 skills gets to feel uber. At some point, he'll have his first lvl 5 skill, and go "woot, lvl 5!!! luxuary!!" XD And at some other point in the future, he'll have his first lvl 5 cruiser skill, hop into his hac, feel superduperuber, fits it with a t2 fit and then goes out behindpounding and raping stuff, while he goes around, pointing fingers at ppl "me lvl 5 cruiser. you, no. muahahahaaaaaaaaaa" and stuff around the hac goes klabooom So, lets imagine all those newbs didn't have to train those skills... if you train your first lvl 5 skills, you've put alot of thought into what skill to train first. Means you actually did numbercrunching and decided on an (for your perspective, at least) ideal path towards your desired ship/fit. You know what you need, what you want, and what you'll do with it. If you were just given skills, this process wouldn't happen. You'd have your shiny lvl 5 cruiser, all your 1337 support skills at max, and hop into a hac after you've been playing the game for like what, a week? You'd buy a Vagabond, put a 800mm plate on, put a civil shield booster on, use missiles and fit neither ab nor mwd cause you've got no clue what you're doing, cause you never had to think a bit about what you wanna do, or where you wanna go. You'd go around, pointing finger at ppl "haaaaaaaaaa, fear me, i'm your biggest..." klaboom, vaga gone. "WTF!!! I had a t2 cruiser, you had an ibis.. how?!" You all should be glad that you're forced to wait and put thoughts into the game! It actually protects you from yourself! (Exceptions excluded :) ) The skill system in eve is awesome for 2 reasons: a) It forces you to DECIDE (aka put thoughts into stuff) where you wanna go b) It allows you to be able to decide (sandbox) where you wanna go, no limitations Pure awesome! :D My videos: Watch on youtube.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.02.11 05:43:00 - [30] Sorry we aren't as awesome as you mr awesome possum

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