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Arcelian
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.02.17 04:41:00 -
[1]
Well, I'm gonna be deploying for four months in April, and I'm looking for something long to train during that time.
I'm not sure if I want the Archon or Revelation, but of course it depends on what I wanna do, so I'll explain that.
I intend to go live in low sec and possibly join a low sec corp, and do some small gang/fleet warfare. Perhaps even some solo roams (with alts of course).
I've looked for guides, searched these very forums(hahaha), and the little info I can find is about what role these two capitals play in a major fleet. Carrier is remote rep/cap/some dps while dreadnaught is godly dps against structures, other capitals, and maybe battleships? Some tell me that a dreadnaught is ONLY good for taking out structures, and can't even hit a carrier if it moves. Since I don't plan to be a member of a large fleet, I don't know which route would suit what I want best.
From what I can tell carriers can take out anything, sub cap or even other capitals. They don't seem to have the same limitations that dreads do.
I first had the impression that a dread was just a bigger, badder battleship, but now I know there's more to it than that.
So, is the dread just good for taking down POS's and titans or is it good for anything else, especially what I would like to use it for? Or would the carrier be a better choice?
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Miseryman
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Posted - 2010.02.17 04:46:00 -
[2]
Yeah solo or even small gang(under 10) with a cap is going to just loose you isk 95% of the time because everyone within 2 cyno jumps is going to want a easy cap kill on there boards and is going to be gunning for you.
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Arcelian
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.02.17 07:30:00 -
[3]
Anyone else?
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Temnozor
Gallente
Gates of Valhalla
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Posted - 2010.02.17 07:42:00 -
[4]
For small gangs I would train something like HAC, Recon, or Commandship 5 over training for a carrier or dread. If I had to choose one, carrier is more useful in more situations probably to a small gang than a dread is, but neither is worth deploying outside of a WH with a small gang. As soon as word gets out of a carrier being tackled everyone within 20 jumps is on their way despite standings to one another.
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Arcelian
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.02.17 08:41:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Temnozor
For small gangs I would train something like HAC, Recon, or Commandship 5 over training for a carrier or dread. If I had to choose one, carrier is more useful in more situations probably to a small gang than a dread is, but neither is worth deploying outside of a WH with a small gang. As soon as word gets out of a carrier being tackled everyone within 20 jumps is on their way despite standings to one another.
Okay I think I get the idea now.
How disappointing.
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Dursun Idris
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Posted - 2010.02.17 09:04:00 -
[6]
It depends on state of your corp actually. If they can properly field a cap fleet, for low sec carrier will be the best choice. But again, if you cannot field AT LEAST 10 of them when you are going for caps, it's better to come with something else. And carrier is essential for defending pos'es too, if you get into such fights often(Plus little risk of losing your ship.)
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.17 09:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Arcelian
Originally by: Temnozor
For small gangs I would train something like HAC, Recon, or Commandship 5 over training for a carrier or dread. If I had to choose one, carrier is more useful in more situations probably to a small gang than a dread is, but neither is worth deploying outside of a WH with a small gang. As soon as word gets out of a carrier being tackled everyone within 20 jumps is on their way despite standings to one another.
Okay I think I get the idea now.
How disappointing.
Well at least you asked before losing your carrier in a hilariously foolish way. That in itself is enough to pull you out of the bottom quartile of new cap pilots.
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Kookie Snr
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Posted - 2010.02.17 09:57:00 -
[8]
You could do what I'm doing (which is probably a huge waste of isk, but what the hell) but get a Carrier and roam around low sec and try and kill stuff - on sisi that is:)
As a carebaring Level 4 mission grinder, I'm at the point where I can fly everything I want, everything up to capitals, and have flown them, all my weaponary and support skills are where they need to be (66mil+ points) so I figured I'd train for a carrier, as I'm kinda in the 'end-game-ship' for MY STYLE OF PLAY already. As I only tend to play this mmo solo :) I'll never be able to use the carrier properly on Tranq as would lose it straight away. So I'll fly it on sisi a few times, learn how to use them - and then if I ever decide to play this mmo properly and join a corp I'll be ready for the capitals:)
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Dalek Commander
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Posted - 2010.02.17 10:49:00 -
[9]
A triage archon in the right hands with a small fleet can be used effectively to win fights where you're outnumbered. Take a look at this video by Rooks and Kings on using the triage archon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXkTjr5B_Xk. If you have the time I'd recommend the extended version as well.
Unless you or your corp will be doing extensive POS take downs you don't need a Dread.
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Shade Millith
International House of PWNCakes
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2010.02.17 11:01:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dalek Commander
A triage archon in the right hands with a small fleet can be used effectively to win fights where you're outnumbered. Take a look at this video by Rooks and Kings on using the triage archon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXkTjr5B_Xk. If you have the time I'd recommend the extended version as well.
Unless you or your corp will be doing extensive POS take downs you don't need a Dread.
The thing is with this, is you have to be VERY prepared to loose the fight, and the carrier along with it. Also a suggestion is not to try that near very active alliances. You can get a lot of enemy reinforcments in the 10 minutes of triage (5 minutes now) when someone's screaming "HOSTILE CAPITAL TACKLED, NEED REINFORCMENTS XXX SYSTEM" in intel channels.
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Denuo Secus
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Posted - 2010.02.17 11:03:00 -
[11]
Carrier can be used as mobile POS also. This is useful when you and your gang is far away in hostile space (ninja ratting) or in WH space with carriers access. In situations when you don't have access to the market and to stations:
- Cyno the carrier in or use WHs
- Stay cloaked on safe spot 97% of the time
- Use the carrier as ammo/drone/loot/ship storage
- Refit and repair you ships
- Option to support your gang when needed
Said carrier is obviously not meant for active fighting. So it's a rather boring job - better suited for an alt ^^
BTW: some of these jobs can also be done by an Orca. But the carrier has one major advantage: jumping. Very handy to get into hostile space.
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Save the missiles from the glowing blob :S
R ----------> *
A --------> *
V --------> *
E -------> *
N ---------> *
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.02.17 11:27:00 -
[12]
If you don't know that you need a dread, you don't need a dread.
They're valuable tools, but very specialised - they're for shooting down structures, and sometimes on an alliance scale in a capital slapfest.
But basically, you almost never deploy a solo dread, unless you like losing them.
Carriers on the other hand, are wider in their utility. You won't necessarily find them valuable in a small corp, as a front line combat ship, but they are at least viable to act in support of a conventional gang.
RR, corp hangar, ship maintenance array and a long jump range are other things that make for out of combat utility - I own a carrier that I use primarily as a 'ship backpack' - I fly to a new base in my recon, cyno in the carrier which brings in the ship collection and spare mods. I can't fit quite as many as I'd like, but a carrier full of T2 frigates and cruisers is a useful quantity, and far less annoying than moving them one at a time.
And the carrier can relocate very quickly for rapid ship swaps.
Fighters are quite nice, but expensive and more vulnerable than you might imagine. Useful amount of DPS though, on a ship with a lot of EHPs and tank. Just don't make the mistake of thinking it invulnerable - people will bother to chase down your carrier, and hunt it down if you use it carelessly. It only takes one or two ships to 'pin' you, for long enough for backup to arrive, and then you're a killmail.
The other use is the 'almost suicide' logistics triage carrier - I've seen it used to good effect, but it also needs a very tight cohesive gang/corp.
You lose the fighters (that are expensive) and fit purely for triage/RR, and 'insurance tank'. Jump in, go into triage for a really awesome tank, and really impressive gang RR. Hope your gang can clear the field fast enough with that support that you don't then die, because in triage you're stuck until triage wears off, and effectively helpless if unsupported.
It can, and does work, but it's a gamble that can cost you a carrier - that's not always a bad thing though, because in the right fight even a carrier loss isn't the end of the world - fully insured, it might be worth it.
So if you're really set on capitals, the answer is a Carrier - when you need a dread, you need a dread, but the rest of the time it's a hangar ornament.
But there's other skills and ships that you'll probably find more useful/valuable in a smaller gang size, which you might want to focus on first.
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Tara Moss
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Posted - 2010.02.17 12:08:00 -
[13]
Unless you have a definite need for capitals...you should consider whether they are a good SP investment.
You might find focusing on sub-capitals or even cross-training another race gives you more options than a carrier/dread which require a lot of support to be effective.
They are certainly useful but ask yourself if they are right for you.
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Haramir Haleths
Caldari
Nutella Bande
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Posted - 2010.02.17 13:17:00 -
[14]
Carrier i would suggest. Nice moveable Headquarter, Fitting and Corp Hangar.
Im living since 6 month with my medium POS in Pirates 00 Space and this Carrier makes things pretty easy. And Fighters are very nice. Ok, i lost one carrier during an expedition (the suckers scanned me down in a sec or so) but was worse the fun. 2 Days later i have had a new shiny Chimera 
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