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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.02.19 12:32:00 -
[1]
As title, its a total pain to have yourself shot at for repping up an outlaw. I could understand repping a player wiht gcc means you get gcc yourself, but repping a outlaw who has NO GCC should not give you gcc.
i dont understand this mechanic and find it highly unballenced and hurts low sec pvp.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.02.19 12:39:00 -
[2]
I guess Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.02.19 12:48:00 -
[3]
if your next door neighbour is a criminal and has a warrant for his arrest, you offer him a welcome to the neighbourhood gift the police arnt going to arrest you for aiding and abetting.
which is VERY different from offering him a lift as he runs out of a bank holding stolen loot!
crimes in the past have been payed for with a sec hit stopping access to high sec system and also a 15 minute GCC at the time of the crime.
Why should i get punished for supplying while no crimes are hapening?
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Gunnanmon
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.02.19 12:51:00 -
[4]
I guess, after thinking about it for a few, it's more like harbouring a fugitive. You're not exactly hiding him, but you're still associating with him, when you could be turning him in/podding the cretin. Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
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Cat o'Ninetails
Rancer Defence League
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Posted - 2010.02.19 12:51:00 -
[5]
hi cat here
it is because of game mechanics that helping pirates means you should get in trubble lol if you dont want a gcc then you should not help pirates simple as that
why dont you do something constructive like helping out people instead of pirates who prolly dont even have souls
xx
ps: why not mention to your friends about my pirate rehabilition service?
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Jack Dant
Minmatar The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
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Posted - 2010.02.19 13:36:00 -
[6]
This was already raised by the CSM in Iceland: Page 12
Quote: After much discussion, CCP agreed to reevaluate that game mechanic. If they find it exploitable, it will not be implemented, otherwise it will. On the face of it CCP thinks the proposal fine.
Frankly, it's quite annoying and silly. Two outlaw gangs are fighting each other on a gate, and the sentries don't mind. But the instant someone brings out a remote rep, they go crazy.
Or my personal favorite. Outlaw doing PVE is fine, and he even gets some sec status gains. Yet when someone reps him to help him tank, even though he's helping a concord-sanctioned action, he gets GCC and his sec goes down
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Slade Hoo
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.02.19 13:41:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Slade Hoo on 19/02/2010 13:40:48 This was mid 2009. So there is no hope left now to get rid of this BS! ------ Make Lowsec useful! Vote in the CSM-Forum! |
Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.02.19 14:05:00 -
[8]
these 'pirates' have recived their low sec status due to upholding the local ideals and keeping dangergous players at bay, this means tackling and destroying any would be threats to the area.
However HOW they have recved their low sec is not the piont, these are not pirates per se, they are just players with lower than -5.0 standing that suddenly cannot be helped by logistics ships or lone remote rep weilding BS. It is not for pirate activitys, if it were i could understand the machanic compltely, unfortunatly how you recived your low sec standing bares no effect on the remote asssistance machanic.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2010.02.19 14:08:00 -
[9]
RR in empire does need to be reworked a bit, unless this was intentional to limit the tactical options outlaw characters have at their disposal. Regardless, as RR can be abused in other ways it could still use some work.
===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2010.02.19 14:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Gunnanmon I guess, after thinking about it for a few, it's more like harbouring a fugitive. You're not exactly hiding him, but you're still associating with him, when you could be turning him in/podding the cretin.
in fact is something like, I am a doctor and I find a fugitive hurt and bleeding from a gun shot. If i do not help him and leave him to die... I can and will be (in many countries) arrested for denial of help.
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Ick Ickagami
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Posted - 2010.02.19 14:23:00 -
[11]
It seems to me that if you stick your nose in a situation, then you lose your neutrality. You wanna rep someone? Fine, just be prepared to become kin to them and subject to all legal agression they have.
After all, it was your choice to become involved, nobody forced you from your safe perch of neutrality.
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Slade Hoo
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.02.19 14:44:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
in fact is something like, I am a doctor and I find a fugitive hurt and bleeding from a gun shot. If i do not help him and leave him to die... I can and will be (in many countries) arrested for denial of help.
awesome...let's make it like this: If you don't rep an outlaw, you'll get a sec hit and gcc \o/ ------ Make Lowsec useful! Vote in the CSM-Forum! |
ROXGenghis
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Posted - 2010.02.19 14:55:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ick Ickagami just be prepared to become kin to them and subject to all legal agression they have.
Except that the pirates don't have legal agression at the time of repping, and yet you as a repper get agression. So you're actually agreeing that reppers should not get a GTC.
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.02.19 15:03:00 -
[14]
why would the station guns attack me if an outlaw outside is repped. theres just him and me, no one is commiting any crimes the station in invaunrable so are the sentrys, just who i sthe GCC trying to help?!
no aggression and no gcc should mean no retaliation for assistance.
I think its far more likly it was an easy way to code it, "if flashy RR = ggc".
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Gilgamesh1980
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2010.02.19 15:29:00 -
[15]
pirates get to live with it tbh.
however it is a fair point.
especially if you look at hisec and how neuts are used to repair other ships who are in combat (sorry haven't been in hisec recently, might have changed)
if a pirate has GCC then fine, you are assisting a fugitive, then you should get GCC too, however if it is just related to sec status then it makes no sense.
even on the other side, if you have someone with positive sec in the same corp as you are and you shoot him in the face, why don't the sentries care about that? it just makes no sense.
this isn't just a whine from my side, it's an actual question for my interest to CCP as well as to why this is
if any CSM would set themselves up to focus on this key area for they campaign or ongoing talks, then I will be right behind that person in supporting ti however possible
right, time to get the banners ready for the next Fanfest....
Federic 'Gilgamesh1980' Chopin
Supreme Commander and Diplomat of the Black Rabbits and Gurlstas associates |
Ick Ickagami
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Posted - 2010.02.19 15:33:00 -
[16]
Originally by: ROXGenghis
Originally by: Ick Ickagami just be prepared to become kin to them and subject to all legal agression they have.
Except that the pirates don't have legal agression at the time of repping, and yet you as a repper get agression. So you're actually agreeing that reppers should not get a GTC.
Of course they do. You just refuse to accept the reality of it. Twist it any way you like, but the fact remains. You aide an outlaw, you choose to take on the mantle of an outlaw and all the goddies that come along with it.
Nobody forced you from your perch of neutrality.
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fuer0n
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Posted - 2010.02.19 15:38:00 -
[17]
remove it so it's possible to tank concord and smartbomb the jita gates again :)
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Zedrik Cayne
Gallente Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2010.02.19 15:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Gilgamesh1980 pirates get to live with it tbh.
however it is a fair point.
especially if you look at hisec and how neuts are used to repair other ships who are in combat (sorry haven't been in hisec recently, might have changed)
if a pirate has GCC then fine, you are assisting a fugitive, then you should get GCC too, however if it is just related to sec status then it makes no sense.
even on the other side, if you have someone with positive sec in the same corp as you are and you shoot him in the face, why don't the sentries care about that? it just makes no sense.
this isn't just a whine from my side, it's an actual question for my interest to CCP as well as to why this is
if any CSM would set themselves up to focus on this key area for they campaign or ongoing talks, then I will be right behind that person in supporting ti however possible
right, time to get the banners ready for the next Fanfest....
This particular mechanic appeared (if memory serves) rather suddenly after CCP made it a GCC offense to remote repair rats. Folks were remote repairing the scrambling rats in missions, and then punching all the trigger rats causing mission runner death. Thing is, it wasn't killing the more novice mission runners. It was actually causing experienced mission runner death, as most newer mission runners significantly overtank with complete cap stability and take forever to do a mission. The real speed mission runners usually cannot tank a full-aggro mission for very long (sacrificing cap stability for more dps and depend on managing aggro and killing the incoming dps before their tank fails).
As far as I can tell the rats are all 'outlaws' which is why the server doesn't give you the message about shooting them (Unlike the message you get when shooting asteroids or other 'neutral' entities.)
And I'm pretty sure that its that band-aid that they put in to cover the 'remote repairing a rat' hole that caused the 'remote repairing an outlaw PC gets you a GCC' mechanic. Don't know whether or not it was intentional or not. Its certainly annoying. --
Originally by: "RedSplat" You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.02.19 15:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gilgamesh1980 pirates get to live with it tbh.
this is the issue it is NOT the pirate who has to pay for it therefpore makes even less sense to punish the RR guy, under a GCC ANYONE repping that player with a GCC should be subjected to a GCC themselfs - absolutly.
this is a particular problem which has become quite annoying since FW. in FW you have lots of players old and new, good and bad all mucked togther for a common cause.
If a fight is going on and race 1 is attacking race 2, you come in to aid your allies (none of which have gcc for shooting each other) yet if oyu aid a purple guy (FW allie) but that guy is below -5.0 YOU get a GCC!
this mechanic is spoiling FW tactics and going agianst the whole idea of a wide common goal pvp RP style. Out of the FW the rules make a little more sense, which nuetral reppers aiding pirates on gates with gcc or not etc etc, but even then the fact remains that if you rep a pirate BEFORE he aggress and gets a GCC you in the laws eyes, at that very moment, are WORSE than the pirate thats just sitting there not doing naything. Of course if outlaws got shot at all the time by sentrys and suffered perminant GCC then the mechanic would make some sense.
but again for FW this really ruins a big part and thus should be removed/changed - just for FW would be a start, but im sure that everyone would agree that on the whole you repping ANYONE without a GCC should in no way cause GCC for yourself - kind of insane actually.
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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc. Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.19 15:58:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 19/02/2010 15:58:06
The above post (2posts up) is very interesting since this occurred before I started playing I believe.
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: Gunnanmon I guess, after thinking about it for a few, it's more like harbouring a fugitive. You're not exactly hiding him, but you're still associating with him, when you could be turning him in/podding the cretin.
in fact is something like, I am a doctor and I find a fugitive hurt and bleeding from a gun shot. If i do not help him and leave him to die... I can and will be (in many countries) arrested for denial of help.
That is why, in the US, Doctors are required by law to report any and all gunshot wounds (GSW). If you are a Doctor and you get caught not reporting a GSW you may be saying goodbye to your license very soon(TM). Then you can go completely underground and be a Doc for a criminal syndicate or something of the like
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
≡v≡ |
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.02.19 17:03:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dr Fighter if your next door neighbour is a criminal and has a warrant for his arrest, you offer him a welcome to the neighbourhood gift the police arnt going to arrest you for aiding and abetting.
which is VERY different from offering him a lift as he runs out of a bank holding stolen loot!
crimes in the past have been payed for with a sec hit stopping access to high sec system and also a 15 minute GCC at the time of the crime.
Why should i get punished for supplying while no crimes are hapening?
Exactly. This is like running a hotdog stand right across the border when an exausted criminal wanders in from his successful getaway run and needs some nourishment. But as soon as you sell him the hotdog several out of jurisdiction cops bust in and charge you with aiding and abetting a known criminal(gcc) then start plinking shots at you(sentry guns) but for some reason leave the criminal alone to happily munch on his hotdog. Like wtf man..
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu The only thing separating us from frightened, feral monkeys is running water on tap, fuel in the tank, and current in our wall sockets.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.02.19 17:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon ..gunshot wounds (GSW).
Well, 1 piece of useful info came from this thread. I always wondered how to shorten those 2 words. Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
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B1FF
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Posted - 2010.02.19 17:54:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dr Fighter if your next door neighbour is a criminal and has a warrant for his arrest, you offer him a welcome to the neighbourhood gift the police arnt going to arrest you for aiding and abetting.
which is VERY different from offering him a lift as he runs out of a bank holding stolen loot!
crimes in the past have been payed for with a sec hit stopping access to high sec system and also a 15 minute GCC at the time of the crime.
Why should i get punished for supplying while no crimes are hapening?
AFK we don't have spaceships so we should remove spaceships from EvE.
AFK examples always fail.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.02.19 17:55:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dr Fighter As title, its a total pain to have yourself shot at for repping up an outlaw. I could understand repping a player wiht gcc means you get gcc yourself, but repping a outlaw who has NO GCC should not give you gcc.
i dont understand this mechanic and find it highly unballenced and hurts low sec pvp.
that would be AWESOME!
CCP REMOVE THIS AND WE WILL NOT DO ANOTHER ZOMBIE INCIDENT, THIS TIME ON JITA 4-4 I PROMISE! ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Phil Exon
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.02.19 18:30:00 -
[25]
George Bush doesn't care about the black people....errrrr..
CCCP doesn't care about pirates
I'd be happy if -10 corpmates could at least rep-other without sentris interference.
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente C C P
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Posted - 2010.02.19 18:40:00 -
[26]
Moved to Features and Ideas Discussion.
Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.02.19 18:55:00 -
[27]
It would be abused to hell and back. Bring in neutral RR to support a flashy gang?
CCP has a hard enough time making what they call a "standings/aggro system" work. That trusting that they can make something like this and not release it with a ton of loop-holes is beyond naive.
Case in point: RR still allows one to jump/dock/dance-a-jig with no repercussions. Such an obvious deviation from "normal" aggro rules that one can only surmise that CCP has no idea how to resolve it without breaking something even more critical
New expansion devblog touches on work being put into standings system, so perhaps they are creating something that can actually be changed without unfortunate domino effects all over the place.
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Mike C
Caldari Ipuvaepe Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.19 19:17:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Mike C on 19/02/2010 19:17:58 A remote reps B who is being shot by C. A is now flagged to be shot by C. Current mechanics make no goddamn difference if this is removed for normal combat.
If you want this to change:
Have your entire alliance go to Jita. Fit remote reps onto a noob ship start remote repping in a circle (rep the next person in fleet and last reps the first) someone shoots Jita 4-4 station laugh log back on after node comes back up
edited to circle lists 'cause CCP broke numeric lists
↑↑ bar is just /quote ↑↑ [03:17:29] Trade Skills > Jesus believes in god [03:17:38] Mike C > believed* [03:17:48] Trade Skills > touche |
VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.02.19 19:38:00 -
[29]
dude, as an outlaw you even get crim + sec loss for repping your own ****ing drones. Can you not find a problem with this system?
They need to at least make it so that you can remote rep an outlaw that isn't engaged in combat.
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Slade Hoo
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.02.19 19:47:00 -
[30]
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto dude, as an outlaw you even get crim + sec loss for repping your own ****ing drones.
really? never repped my drones lol. This GCC-System is so f****** bad designed. ------ Make Lowsec useful! Vote in the CSM-Forum! |
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