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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2010.02.23 16:41:00 -
[1]
CCP Dr.EyjoG's newest blog focuses on the Q4 2009 Quarterly Economic Report. Read all about it here.
Fallout
Associate Community Manager
CCP Hf, EVE Online
Contact us |
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el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.02.23 16:52:00 -
[2]
Define 'quarterly'. 
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Jack bubu
Lyonesse.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.23 16:55:00 -
[3]
i like :)
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Xtover
Suicide Kings
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Posted - 2010.02.23 17:10:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: el caido
Define 'quarterly'.
hahaha 
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Jit4
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Posted - 2010.02.23 17:18:00 -
[5]
is it just me or is this PDF simply broken?
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Jack bubu
Lyonesse.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.23 17:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jit4
is it just me or is this PDF simply broken?
what do you mean with broken? works fine for me..
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.02.23 17:28:00 -
[7]
Originally by: el caido
Define 'quarterly'.
*giggle*
should be a good read, these are usually some of the better devblogs.
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Genya Arikaido
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Posted - 2010.02.23 17:50:00 -
[8]
Is there any chance these can get archived and accessible via the left-hand menu? ...or are they already and I'm just blind?
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
my bad.
Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
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el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.02.23 17:58:00 -
[9]
They are archived in the EVElopedia/wiki, iirc.
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Kata Amentis
Quantum Drift
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Posted - 2010.02.23 18:34:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Kata Amentis on 23/02/2010 18:36:53
Originally by: Jit4
is it just me or is this PDF simply broken?
Just clicking on the link didn't work for me, just opens a blank page... r-click save link as worked though.
Originally by: el caido
They are archived in the EVElopedia/wiki, iirc.
Indeed, http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/QEN |
Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.23 18:39:00 -
[11]
The last sides of the QEN were filled with "market snapshots", price indices for random items. That's something i can see ingame too, when checking the market window price stats of 1 year, so it's nothing new or of informational value.
I'd rather like to see stats on things that i can't see ingame but that are interesting, such as:
- How much isk does the average player have (you had that in the old QENs) ?
- How much do the richest 10% have (to determine what's rich) in isk or - if possible to find out - in total assets ?
- How long does the average player stay subscribed (was mentioned by Oveur in 2006, no more infos after that).
- What's the average SP on all players ?
- How many Titans and Motherships are in game ?
etc.
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Cyclops43
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Posted - 2010.02.23 18:45:00 -
[12]
To be quite honest, the section about the minerals is mostly useless. It tries to look at the mineral market from an RL point of view, but completely forgets all the factors that makes the EVE mineral market unlike RL market.
- In RL, there's no unlimited funding for surplus minerals. In EVE there is (through insurance)
- In RL there are limits to how many minerals CAN be produced, but in EVE there isn't
- In RL there's significant ramp-up time for production, but in EVE there isn't
- In RL there's significant initial investment in mineral production, but in EVE there isn't
Especially a sentence like "The reason for the price increase in Pyerite throughout Q4 has yet to be found." makes it pretty clear that EnjoG doesn't really have a handle on how the EVE mineral economy works (or doesn't) due to the hard price floor of insurance.
Prices have been at bottom level for a long time now, they can not drop any lower, therefore it is inevitable that a drop in some minerals will be compensated for by an increase in others.
That he doesn't even mention the insurance floor with even one word makes me think he knows it is a huge problem for the economy, but doesn't dare mention it. The floor is THE most important factor for the EVE mineral market, and is not mentioned even once!
Other important data also missing that would give us a true look at the health of the EVE economy is an overview over the sinks and faucets, particularly for T1 minerals and ISK.
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Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2010.02.23 19:18:00 -
[13]
Metrics
I have to agree that talking about the current state of the mineral market without mentioning insurance, or even the mineral basket, as a possible factor in the "odd" price movements is a major oversight.
Trade Hubs
It would be interesting to know how much of the trade in Jita is simply "internal" trade, with goods shuffling from one owner to another but never leaving VI-4. With so much stuff in jita to begin with, there is much greater scope for such "internal" trade to inflate the overall trade figure for Jita than for other solar systems. This would lead to the influence of Jita on the "final use" market volumes not being as great as these figures suggest.
The report has identified the proportion of people who trade in Jita that stayed in the system, and those that jumped in/out. It would be interesting to split the trading volume into the 4 possible combinations of these groups (static to static, static to jumper, jumper to static, jumper to jumper).
Of course it would be more interesting to track the items themselves rather than the characters involved in the trade, but I would imagine that would be exceptionally difficult even if sufficient data is logged to allow it.
PLEX is also likely to be a distorting factor here, especially as the report highlights it as being the item with the single biggest traded value. Due to not being able to move PLEX around like other items, and the location of the PLEX not being especially important to it's purchase, it makes sense that trade in PLEX would centralize in Jita far more than other items. Would be interesting to see how much difference it would make if PLEX are separated out.
-------
There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
profian
Amarr
Blood Bringers
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Posted - 2010.02.23 19:33:00 -
[14]
Aceness!
That is all 
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WarlockX
Amarr
Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2010.02.23 19:40:00 -
[15]
I just want to voice my oppinion that I agree you cannot talk about minerals without insurance. This needs to be taken into account for the next Quarterly.
-----------------------------------------------
Free Trade Corp - Flash page
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Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
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Posted - 2010.02.23 19:48:00 -
[16]
Yessss, I was waiting for it. :)
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2010.02.23 19:57:00 -
[17]
go economics go?
Secure 3rd party service |
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Qwert0
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Posted - 2010.02.23 20:04:00 -
[18]
EyjoG seems to have missed something obvious in the MPI...
Did he not get informed about the new grav site mechanics with sovreignty?
The ones that even at level one give a 250000 unit spoduman rock (containing a large portion of megacite ) every 2-3 days, or the fact that every 0.0 system can trivially get about 40k units of ABC's in the same timeframe at only industry level one?
On a similar note, has anyone seen ANY scordite in the low end grav sites? I swear I haven't seen any .
Heck with prices as they are now the only ores more valuble than scordite are gneiss and the MABC's ; veldspar never got this bad in the trit boom.
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Perrin Girard
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Posted - 2010.02.23 20:09:00 -
[19]
I find it hard to draw any conclusions about the overall shift in the types of ships being flown based on a single a single snapshot in time. Has player activities really shifted more toward combat overall or is it just true for this snapshot. Did the Drake really win out over the Hulk for the entire quarter or was it just during the snapshot?
I would like to see two charts based off of numbers for the entire quarter. The first chart would be the ships ranked by total number of times a ship was boarded. The second chart would be the ships ranked by total time spent in a ship while a character was logged in. With these two charts I think you could drawn more meaningful conclusions about the shift in player activity from the previous quarter than you could from a single snapshot in time.
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Archestratidas
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Posted - 2010.02.23 20:18:00 -
[20]
I like the idea of a QEN, but honestly, you have an entire team that spits out one or two "quarterly" economic reports per year, and all they have is a few market screenshots that are available in game? I mean, really? What do these people do all day???
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Ifly Uwalk
Caldari
Empire Tax Collection Agency
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Posted - 2010.02.23 20:55:00 -
[21]
Editorial, page 6:
"The Dominion release was a very successful EVE expansion that was well received by the players."
Uh-huh. 
Ifly
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.02.23 21:26:00 -
[22]
Page 10, population density. Fountain is accounted as North, shouldn't it be West?
Page 16: "The reason for the price increase in Pyerite throughout Q4 has yet to be found. Sure enough, the
demand is increasing but so is demand for other low-end minerals" Insurance fraud? BS need especially lots of pyr.
-----
And now ... finally!! some comments and outlooks into the future and not dull repeating of what just happend in the past. The QEN team finally seems to become more confident in their own abilities :-) That is good, more comments from the team are always welcome!
Also lots of interesting things to read, the section about the tradehubs in the past and present. The analysis of Jita and the activity there round the day was also good. Such things the player normally doesn't see, please more of such.
Otherwise, go ahead. You are a on the right track!
And thanks! 
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Tiny Carlos
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.23 21:52:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Matthew
or otherwise he must be completely clueless.
He is an economist, cluelessness is an essential part of the job.
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Rough Necks
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Posted - 2010.02.23 22:02:00 -
[24]
Usually I enjoy these a lot but this blog reads a bit like it was quickly patched together without any real research or understanding.
But on another note, am I being dense for not recognizing the Sansha type vessel on page 24?
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Mors Magne
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.02.23 22:35:00 -
[25]
I like the report.
I'd like to see a graph of number of players against how many skill points they have.
I have nearly 100 million SP, and I'd like to compare myself to others. 
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wert668
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Posted - 2010.02.23 23:06:00 -
[26]
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Doctor Mabuse
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Posted - 2010.02.23 23:45:00 -
[27]
Statistics are like bikinis; what they reveal is interesting, but not as interesting as what they conceal...
------------------------------------
Who's trip-trapping on my bridge? |
Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2010.02.24 01:07:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Claire Voyant on 24/02/2010 01:07:38
A few observations in addition to what's been said above:
1. The Zephyr is the fifth most popular ship "flown"? Not where I am. Can this really represent ships in space? If so, it had to be a snapshot taken the day that the ships first appeared.
2. I doubt that speculative trading in Technetium ended on Dec. 1st or even Dec. 31 and I don't think we've seen the end of it.
3.Were the superhighways "introduced" as you say on page 24 or "removed" as you say on page 27?
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FunzzeR
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.02.24 01:22:00 -
[29]
The quarterly economic reports need more econometric analysis or give us the raw data to run our own regressions.
PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!!
THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!! |
Elymi
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Posted - 2010.02.24 01:42:00 -
[30]
Why not compairing faction-ship-usage ?
Oh it would show balance issues for sure ..
Als that there are more Zephyr around then Raven is just a bad joke. Never trust a statistik you didn't faked yourself ;)
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
SRS.
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Posted - 2010.02.24 02:20:00 -
[31]
Seriously? The doc didn't even touched insurance fraud not once, not even in his mineral market analysis...
Closed until further notice
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.02.24 04:05:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Ifly Uwalk
Editorial, page 6:
"The Dominion release was a very successful EVE expansion that was well received by the players."
Uh-huh.
He probably has access to better data on satisfaction rates than forum dwellers.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.02.24 04:20:00 -
[33]
Originally by: FunzzeR
The quarterly economic reports need more econometric analysis or give us the raw data to run our own regressions.
If they did that then we would be able to disprove their fluff and misdirection; and they don't want that.
--
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.02.24 04:44:00 -
[34]
Page 18.
Want as poster, noa!
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d4shing
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Posted - 2010.02.24 04:49:00 -
[35]
Cool stuff.
Is it just me, or does anyone else feel like they're hinting that perhaps they'll sever a couple of the main arteries to Jita? I wonder how the markets would react if there were an "accident" with the Niarja and Uedema stargates.
Something I'd like to see, instead of a snapshot of "what are the ships people are flying this second" is "What ships are the most destroyed?"
Because a snapshot is going to be inherently flawed, sometimes people are in haulers or station spinning in a frigate or whatever. But ships that get destroyed tells you (indirectly) about usage and gives direct info about demand. The only way to measure usage would be to take a large number of snapshots, which isn't really practical.
I'd be particularly interested in a deeper drilldown on T2 ship production/sales/destruction, by ship. Which recon is most popular? How often do people go thorugh Dictors or Marauders? Is someone stockpiling taranises?
The indices, while interesting in theory, are kind of useless without knowing more about them. The technetium increase was cancelled out by the pro/dysp fall? Why? Because they were of equal magnitude? Because they're equally weighted? How are the weights derived? From extraction, trade, use?
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.02.24 05:39:00 -
[36]
Originally by: d4shing
Is someone stockpiling taranises?
The rest of it seems good, but this seems like its the kind of information that should not appear on a QEN.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Aleena Doran
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Posted - 2010.02.24 06:00:00 -
[37]
Good read.
There were a bunch of ships I didn't recognise in the pictures though. Am I missing something?
Page 7 amarr omen + what?
Page 21 caldari what?
Page 25 sansha capital ship?
Page 41 raven + what?
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.02.24 06:28:00 -
[38]
First - when a pie chart contains Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar, can they be coloured Gold, Blue, Green, Red in that order, to help the visualisation? It's a teensy cosmetic nitpick, I know.
I'd like to see more information on ISK faucets and sinks, mineral faucets and sinks, and and indication of how many ships have been blown up with no modules fitted.
Some mention of monetary velocity would be nice too. How much is each character spending per day? I expect a few traders will be cycling through billions of ISK a day, while some folks in the long tail will be earning a chunk one day, then whittling it away over the next week on ship losses and ammo. How many times does one ISK go around the system before being spent on sink items?
How many level 4 encounter missions are completed each day? What is the distribution of missions completed per day by geographic location? What is the distribution of missions completed per character per day by character SP total? My expectation is that by far the single system with the largest number of missions completed per day will be Motsu, with systems such as Dodixie and Emolgranlan featuring high on the list. I also expect that a small number high-SP characters will be completing exponentially more missions per day than anyone else.
How many encounter missions are completed by solo characters versus characters in fleets?
What is the ratio of T1 (meta 0) items dropped by NPCs versus manufactured by players?
[Aussie players: join channels ANZAC or AUSSIES] |
Jim Luc
Caldari
Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.02.24 07:55:00 -
[39]
I like all the pretty pictures
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Wrayeth
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.02.24 08:00:00 -
[40]
That was definitely an interesting read, at least what I understood of it due to lack of trading/market-whoring knowledge.
On a somewhat related note (mostly because they were part of the newsletter), the pics of tech 3 frigates and orbital refineries look good. (At least...I *think* that's what they are.)
-Wrayeth
n00b Extraordinaire
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2010.02.24 08:14:00 -
[41]
I second the critique on the mineral price analysis not including neither insurance nor mineral basket.
Originally by: Aleena Doran
There were a bunch of ships I didn't recognise in the pictures though. Am I missing something?
Page 7 amarr omen + what?
Page 21 caldari what?
Page 25 sansha capital ship?
Page 41 raven + what?
- Omen, Malleus (Amarr fighter bomber), Punisher
- Hel, Tyrfing (Minnie fighter bomber)
- looks like a Sansha station from a complex
- Raven, Drake, Rokh, Kestrel
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Kerfira
Audaces Fortuna Iuvat
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Posted - 2010.02.24 08:32:00 -
[42]
Originally by: d4shing
Is it just me, or does anyone else feel like they're hinting that perhaps they'll sever a couple of the main arteries to Jita? I wonder how the markets would react if there were an "accident" with the Niarja and Uedema stargates.
Unlikely.... They tried it once (to break up Yulai), and Jita just sprang into existence soon thereafter. If Jita is made inconvenient, another main market hub will just emerge.
If they really wanted to encourage regional markets, they'd have to reinstate warp-to-15km (with proper limits to insta-BM's). There'd still be a 'main' hub, but less people would want to travel there to shop.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Die Baas
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Posted - 2010.02.24 08:58:00 -
[43]
I always find the QEN an interesting read and I've been looking forward to this one for quite some time. Whilst the QEN is still quite informative and useful, I have to admit that our resident economist misses some of the more obvious causalities and reverts to basic descriptive stats and indices.
To his credit, he does admit that he does not understand some of the dynamics such as mineral price increases/decreases. But the fact the he was unable to draw the lines between cause and effect is definitely a concern. I would encourage CCP Dr.EyjoG or his team members to spend a bit more time playing the game, as doing so could only enhance his understanding of the underlying dynamics.
I expected a lot more on the impact of T2 bp changes...
My alt is a hulk-producer. With the Dominion changes to Tech II blueprints the cost of producing a Hulk nearly doubled. This was directly attributable to the fact that Fusion Reactors (that used to be the most expensive item in Hulk production) was de-throned by Photon Microprocessors. (I still think CCP over-reacted in the Tech II bp changes but that's another debate.) The market is slowly correcting after the price for Fusion Reactor materials plunged and the prices for Photon Microprocessor materials sky-rocketed, and Hulk prices are reducing ever so slightly on a daily basis. But still 60% higher than before Dominion and will remain that way until moon miners and raw material producers adjust to take us back to where we were before Dominion.
However, if we look at p34, figure 26, it seems that the QEN is completely oblivious to the T2 BP changes and attributes the very sudden increase in hulk prices to Hulk-a-geddon. (Admittedly also stating that it does not make sense because volumes remained unchanged). As a hulk producer I can say without a shred of doubt that the Hulk price increase was entirely due to changes in the cost of production. Hulk-a-geddon provided a very small blip, but nothing more.
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Dimitri Kerensky
Stardust Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.24 09:13:00 -
[44]
There are a few flaws with the sectors on page 10:
- Fountain should be in the west not the north (no connection with other northern regions)
- Impass is in the south and southeast sector mentioned
- Omist is left out (or the SE Impass should be Omist)
Page 14 low-end minerals:
July witnessed a major drop... July?
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.24 09:49:00 -
[45]
The QENs seem to mainly be just game-promotion tools designed for the non-players.
CCP Dr.EyjoG has admitted to not playing the game (not much, not at all, not anymore, doesn't really matter), he has little knowledge of what the GAME'S ECONOMY is all about, regardless of how much he knows about any real-life economies... and it really, really shows.
Out of an entire QEN, it's seldom I walk away with more than a couple of bits of information I could care for, and more than my fair share of /facepalm moments.
In that regard, the current QEN does not disappoint, it follows the exact same formula.
The interesting info ? Subscription numbers and character populations to a small degree, then Jita trade volume to a much larger degree (seriously, I completely expected Jita to be THE major trade hub, but seems my "data" was stuck in the far past, as I never thought it would be over 20% of the global volume... oh, boy, was I wrong... over 50%? Damn! )
The /facepalm moments ? Pretty much every time "the doc" tries to explain what happened with mineral prices (both ore and moon) or predict future trends... and a few more I don't really care to get into.
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
_
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Sarina Berghil
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Posted - 2010.02.24 10:42:00 -
[46]
I find it very hard to read. For me the background is grey and white squares, with black text on top. I dont know if this is intended, but Im certainly going to end up with a headache if I read it all.
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Sarina Berghil
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Posted - 2010.02.24 12:07:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Cyclops43
Especially a sentence like "The reason for the price increase in Pyerite throughout Q4 has yet to be found." makes it pretty clear that EnjoG doesn't really have a handle on how the EVE mineral economy works (or doesn't) due to the hard price floor of insurance.
Prices have been at bottom level for a long time now, they can not drop any lower, therefore it is inevitable that a drop in some minerals will be compensated for by an increase in others.
That he doesn't even mention the insurance floor with even one word makes me think that either he knows it is a huge problem for the economy, but doesn't dare mention it, or otherwise he must be completely clueless. The floor is THE most important factor for the EVE mineral market, and is not mentioned even once!
Quite agree on this. The rise of price of pyerite is simple. Insurance floor keeps a steady demand of tritanium, causing pyerite prices to rise because those are also needed for ship building. But since producing pyerite will generally result in more trit as a byproduct the more the market tries to adjust by producing pyerite, the higher it will go.
Pyerite is currently the bottleneck and the limiting factor, so it can in theory keep rising, until supply runs dry.
Before the change in how asteroids respawned, there was a limiting factor. This probably kept trit high in a natural supply/demand balance. Now this limit seems to not be there, or be much weaker.
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Acrid Acid
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Posted - 2010.02.24 14:06:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Jit4
is it just me or is this PDF simply broken?
Indeed, with windows 7 and the lastest patch for reader it seems the PDF is broken. Wiki it is then.
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SavantFrost
The Craniac
Blazing Angels Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.24 14:28:00 -
[49]
Edited by: SavantFrost on 24/02/2010 14:28:43
Originally by: Acrid Acid
Originally by: Jit4
is it just me or is this PDF simply broken?
Indeed, with windows 7 and the lastest patch for reader it seems the PDF is broken. Wiki it is then.
Had same issue. Right click on the link and select save link as. That should do the trick.
---
Currently attempting to interface with forum ...
Progress: 1% |
Krans Hopeson
Hypercube Ventures
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Posted - 2010.02.24 15:00:00 -
[50]
I agree with those people who are disappointed by the QEN.
It's pretty clear that there are members of the playerbase -- Akita T, for example -- who have a far better grasp of the way that the EVE economy works and what factors affect prices than Dr.EyjoG does. His failure to understand or explain the effects of the Dominion T2 materials rejig on Hulk prices and the way that insurance is driving up Pyerite prices is pretty damning.
Weak sauce. 
--
"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask." |
MichaelJackson RIP
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Posted - 2010.02.24 15:05:00 -
[51]
Edited by: MichaelJackson RIP on 24/02/2010 15:04:55
nice!
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.02.24 15:22:00 -
[52]
Can i gate a dev comment on what the least populair ship is in Q4? is it again the black ops?
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Maven Deltor
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Posted - 2010.02.24 17:14:00 -
[53]
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
July witnessed a major drop in the traded volume of low-end minerals, in particular with Isogen,
where volume dropped by over 19%. At the same time, the price of low-end minerals went up, with
the notable exception of Tritanium, which fell in price by 6.9%.
When I first read this, I thought "July? He must have just lost track as to what he was doing." But I decided to look up Q3 QEN to find the same section. Here's what Dr. EyjoG said in Q3 on low-end minerals.
Originally by: CCP Dr. EyjoG
July witnessed a major drop in the traded volume
of low-end minerals, in particular with Isogen,
where volume dropped by over 19%. At
the same time, the price of low-end minerals
went up, with the notable exception of Tritanium,
which fell in price by 6.9%.
I know history repeats itself, but this is a bit ridiculous. How much of the QEN is a copy & paste effort?
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Matalino
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Posted - 2010.02.24 17:20:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Matalino on 24/02/2010 17:20:33
Originally by: Cyclops43
Especially a sentence like "The reason for the price increase in Pyerite throughout Q4 has yet to be found." makes it pretty clear that EnjoG doesn't really have a handle on how the EVE mineral economy works (or doesn't) due to the hard price floor of insurance.
Prices have been at bottom level for a long time now, they can not drop any lower, therefore it is inevitable that a drop in some minerals will be compensated for by an increase in others.
This! Doubly so since the last time self-destruction became profitable, (back in 2006) it was followed immeadiately by a spike in Pyerite prices. 
Then again he appears too busy stating the obvious: we know that most trading is done in Jita. That isn't news worthy! Yet there are three pages telling us this.
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Morgals
Dark Star Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.24 23:22:00 -
[55]
Enjoyed it, thank you.
Enjoyed some of the insites into some of the prices but I would request a slightly longer report next time.
In other reports you gave intresting information about
Average skill points
Average ISK income
Average wallet amounts
found this fairly intresting and am sad that it's gone.
Would also love to see information on isk/hr typically made as profit from varous activities. What does a trader make, a missioner, a minner, a ratter.
Enjoyed the stats about what ships are used but it does not tell us where. What where the most common ships in empire? the most common ships in low sec? 0.0? what ship was blown up the most. What ship was blown up the least amount for how represented it was.
Average skill points of pilots in 0.0, average skill points of pilots ina sov holding alliance.
lots more information could have been provided. I look forward to the next version.
Dark Star Industries
Actions speak louder than words.
Let us show you=> DSI-Recruitment in game channel |
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.25 01:53:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Cyclops43
Especially a sentence like "The reason for the price increase in Pyerite throughout Q4 has yet to be found." makes it pretty clear that EnjoG doesn't really have a handle on how the EVE mineral economy works (or doesn't) due to the hard price floor of insurance.[...]
This! Doubly so since the last time self-destruction became profitable, (back in 2006) it was followed immeadiately by a spike in Pyerite prices.
He needs to be either properly educated or let go, that's what I say...
You don't let an infantry general command your space force without some retraining ! Well, granted, not the best analogy, but still.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Zi'Boo
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Posted - 2010.02.25 04:20:00 -
[57]
Nice that they know what they are talking about:
Quote:
The 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II is an artillery cannon. When Dominion was launched, the falloff by tier on repeating artillery was increased in addition to tracking speed, which was raised to 15%. This lead to prices almost doubling in December alone, with volume traded increasing by 59%.
Now let me break it down:
Quote:
The 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II is an artillery cannon.
- so far so good
Quote:
When Dominion was launched, the falloff by tier on repeating artillery was increased
repeating artillery is a name for 2 highest tiers of battleship autocannons not artillery, so what does it have to do with anything?
Quote:
in addition to tracking speed, which was raised to 15%
15% of what?
Quote:
This lead to prices almost doubling in December alone, with volume traded increasing by 59%.
at least they got the conclusion right...
Guys, you should seriously get someone to proofread those QENs.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.02.25 04:28:00 -
[58]
Quote:
In 2010 the QEN team will be focused on improving the publication, so please feel free to comment on this issue and the year overall. We are open to all suggestions on how it can be changed to better serve your craving for numbers, graphs and pretty tables.
Enjoy,
The QEN team.
Ok, I'm taking you at your word.
How would we like the QEN to be improved? Easy. Give us some numbers on metrics that actually mean something. Instead of being so general, give us precise numbers for specific issues. Say, numbers of ships being self destructed vs. destroyed by 'normal' means in order to demonstrate how common insurance fraud has been and how the trend is shaping up. This is simply one single example. The possibilities are endless.
How about precise performance metrics on ships used/lost in PVP? How about an entire QEN devoted to nothing but ship performance metrics? Or a QEN devoted entirely to defining the relative outputs of high/low/0.0 sec across all factors? Like NPCs, mining, production etc?
Here's an EASY way to make the QEN more interesting and satisfying for pretty much every player type: track down the top ten most controversial topics in Eve and then provide metrics for them. Simple as that. I'd guess that 90% of all players out there aren't interested in information that amounts to nothing more than 'well yeah, we already knew that'.
If it's something that we're already aware of, or some new information that has zero impact on our playing, we simply don't care. And if we don't care about it, what is the point of producing it in the first place? It's a waste of time.
So far the QENs have produced little that is of any real concern to the majority of the player base. Any information that has been released isn't any surprise to the player base and is widely considered to just be 'fluff' and it makes the players think that you're just trying to put 'something' out there so that you have an excuse when we request actual detailed information about the game.
Why not do a more detailed breakdown of the population dispersion? Show detailed maps and graphs of where the population centers are, why they are that way and then what is being done to correct the obvious mistakes with game design (like the massive population clusters around systems with multiple L4 agents in them).
Eve has usage stats that vary wildly (some minerals/materials being almost worthless while others are exceedingly expensive as an example) and this is simply a sign of broken game design. You clearly have access to the data, if this is so then why isn't anything being done to correct these obvious design mistakes?
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Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Rough Necks
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Posted - 2010.02.25 04:46:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Eve has usage stats that vary wildly (some minerals/materials being almost worthless while others are exceedingly expensive as an example) and this is simply a sign of broken game design. You clearly have access to the data, if this is so then why isn't anything being done to correct these obvious design mistakes?
His job isn't game design, so you cannot expect a devblog on game design from him.
But I agree with the gist of your post: The QEN's are only interesting as long as they present data which everybody doesn't already have access to anyway (like the last QEN, it had just no real content at all). And preferably just present the raw data instead of ever too often the results of a flawed analysis. You cannot analyze the EVE economy without understanding of the game design factors that influence it, and that understanding is clearly not there, so don't even try.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.02.25 06:38:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Catari Taga
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Eve has usage stats that vary wildly (some minerals/materials being almost worthless while others are exceedingly expensive as an example) and this is simply a sign of broken game design. You clearly have access to the data, if this is so then why isn't anything being done to correct these obvious design mistakes?
His job isn't game design, so you cannot expect a devblog on game design from him.
But I agree with the gist of your post: The QEN's are only interesting as long as they present data which everybody doesn't already have access to anyway (like the last QEN, it had just no real content at all). And preferably just present the raw data instead of ever too often the results of a flawed analysis. You cannot analyze the EVE economy without understanding of the game design factors that influence it, and that understanding is clearly not there, so don't even try.
Yes, I realize that he doesn't affect game design decisions. I was speaking more generally there to CCP as a whole. My point was if players can spot glaring inconsistencies with the game data and derive design changes that would fix that, then why can't the economist and game designers do the same?
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Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Dissonance Corp
Primary.
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Posted - 2010.02.25 07:27:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 25/02/2010 07:27:47
Quote:
The Micro Auxiliary Power Core I is primarily used to increase the power grid on frigate sized ships. In December the requirements for the module were downgraded from energy management level 3 to 2. This change led to a 46% increase in volume traded in December alone.
Is there really that many people in game who lack Energy Management III?
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Vir Hellnamin
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.02.25 12:07:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Vir Hellnamin on 25/02/2010 12:07:13
EVE QEN > Fox News in comedy-value.
(lolz, managed to typo that one even)
--
"Entering MH means instant death. It's worse than 0.0. Even the asteroids shoot back." - Alex Harumichi [GRD]
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Jacob Holland
Gallente
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.25 13:22:00 -
[63]
As I've requested in the feedback threads for the last two...
Could we please return to the single page spread format (even as an alternative) rather than this "pictures are more important than reference" double page, unprintable version.
Please give us one page of QEN per page of .pdf so that we can print the damn thing out.
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Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Dissonance Corp
Primary.
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Posted - 2010.02.25 16:26:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 25/02/2010 16:27:35
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 25/02/2010 16:26:29
I realize that, given the lack of first-hand experience with EVE, piecing together the reasons behind trends must be a serious headache with a lot of networking second-hand information from CCP devs.
Here's some factors I don't think were considered though in your analysis:
Quote:
The Hulk is the most popular specialized mining ship in EVE. During Q4, a campaign was launched by a group of players with the aim of attacking and destroying as many Hulk-class vessels as possible, which can be speculated as being one of the reasons behind the increase in the price of the Hulk towards the end of the Quarter. It is, however, worth noting that the volume of Hulks being traded did not increase to match this.
While lots of Hulks died during Hulkageddon, the actual reason is a lot more mundane: The shifting of moon material amounts needed to make hulks increased production costs. Pretty much everyone in EVE who knows a hulk builder knows this due to their constant griping about it.
Quote:
Demand for high-end minerals was of course affected by Dominion in the same way as the lowends; through warfare over solar systems and moons. However, the 33.4% drop in Megacyte price does seem odd. A sharply dropping price coinciding with increased volume strongly suggests an increased supply of Megacyte, but it is hard to say for certain. The 22% jump in Nocxium price in December is also rather odd.
Dominion opened up the possibility of industrial upgrades to nullsec systems; namely, hidden asteroid belts. These belts give access to megacyte deposits to any nullsec bear anywhere who wants some quick cash and has access to an system that can be upgraded. Also, since these belts have to be probed down first, they can be mined much more intensively then arkanor ever has been in the past, as hidden belts are much less accessible to roaming hostiles then regular belts.
Quote:
Figure 29: The Obelisk is a Gallente Freighter renowned for its great transport capacity. In Dominion, the sovereignty changes resulted in decreased demand for player owned structures (POS). The Obelisk is among other freighters used frequently in transporting fuel to the player structures. Despite the reduced incentive to own a POS there is an increase in volume of Obelisk traded by 19% in Q4.
What's not taken into account here is that freighters are also very useful for highsec players as well - to move large amounts of goods to and from trade hubs. As pointed out when listing statistics of Jita, Jita's most commonly traded commodity (except PLEX) is Tritanium. Moving tritanium in sufficient quantities for high-level projects usually requires a freighter. Also pointed out in the QEN, there's more trit on the market now then ever thanks to increased belt reseeding, as well as increased demands for it on the T2 production scale, hence more freighters to help move it all. As high-sec business dwarfs nullsec logistic requirements (which often use the more reliable jump freighter anyway), it's no mystery why Obelisk sales are up.
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Dissonance Corp
Primary.
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Posted - 2010.02.25 16:42:00 -
[65]
Here's some questions I'd like to pose to EVE's economist:
1) What is the population of eve nullsec regions going by NPC rat type? Going by "direction on the map" I don't think paints a clear economic picture. While you point out the population disparity between places like Providence and the Spire (80.5 vs. 2.9 per system), no theories are thrown out to answer why.
2) Pirate ships and faction ships have been dramatically upgraded in Dominion. The Dramiel for example has skyrocketed in popularity (at least in my experience). What effect has the demand for these ships have on the market?
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Whizz Mo
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Posted - 2010.02.26 05:07:00 -
[66]
On the bottom of page 27, the following:
ááááNo other system has even come to reaching that volume since.
should probably be:
ááááNo other system has even come close to reaching that volume since.
</grammar "not-z">
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Whizz Mo
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Posted - 2010.02.26 05:17:00 -
[67]
On the bottom of page 33, the following...:
áááááwith volume traded rising by 18% and prices increasing to 5%.
... should probably be:
áááááwith volume traded rising by 18% and prices increasing by 56%.
... or
áááááwith volume traded rising by 18% and prices increasing by 50 million isk.
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Kanatta Jing
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Posted - 2010.02.26 18:35:00 -
[68]
2.6% pop density in Spire? If I was Solar I'd be a little bothered by the release of that information. But then just looking at the map says it's under developed.
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Xavier Hayes
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Posted - 2010.02.27 11:16:00 -
[69]
Quote:
The 22% jump in Nocxium price in December is also rather odd.
Well, VRB is an odd trading unit
Nice to see our efforts have been recorded in a Dev Blog...cheers!
Xavier Hayes
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BlondieBC
Minmatar
Galactic Exploration and Missions
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Posted - 2010.02.27 19:57:00 -
[70]
On table 2, Fountian is listed among the Northern Regions, it should be in the West.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.02.27 19:57:00 -
[71]
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 27/02/2010 19:59:27
Whoever is the creator of this ,he has no idea about 99% of stuff.
My question is : Will it change ? Or it still will be ok for him having no clue.
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Dissonance Corp
Primary.
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Posted - 2010.02.27 22:34:00 -
[72]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 27/02/2010 19:59:27
Whoever is the creator of this ,he has no idea about 99% of stuff.
My question is : Will it change ? Or it still will be ok for him having no clue.
tbh I'd rip my hair out if CCP dumped a pile of receipts of a game I don't play in my lap and was asked to figure out the economy of it all.
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Berzerkergang
Caldari
Bendebeukers
Green Rhino
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Posted - 2010.03.01 10:38:00 -
[73]
Well for those interested, this report is based on numbers. Numbers reflect the overall game of all area's instead of just pointing it out in a small portion of the game. For those that look at the complaints and pick more value out of that than these figures, do not forget that complaints are just a small tip of the iceberg of users. Most of them are pleased with the way the game is run probably.
EVE is running well if you look at the figures, good job CCP!
"He who knows he knows nothing, is a wise man..." -- Socrates
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thisisnotmikaldrey
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Posted - 2010.03.01 22:00:00 -
[74]
hey hey
Omist :''(
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.03.03 01:51:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 25/02/2010 07:27:47
Quote:
The Micro Auxiliary Power Core I is primarily used to increase the power grid on frigate sized ships. In December the requirements for the module were downgraded from energy management level 3 to 2. This change led to a 46% increase in volume traded in December alone.
Is there really that many people in game who lack Energy Management III?
Seems to be quite a bit of oversimplistic interpretation on some points tbh that reflect limited knowledge of what players are actually doing.
Another compelling explanation for increased sales of MAPCs could be that more people began fitting rigs to their frigs once the small rig prices stabilized.
Generally appears sadly superficial. Shame. EVE is a complex game and maybe a different economist would chomp at the bit to be able to wade into the data up to his elbows instead of skimming the surface with his fingertips.
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CCP Recurve
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Posted - 2010.03.03 22:36:00 -
[76]
It is quite true that we did not see insurance fraud as as the reason for the growing pyerite prices.
Weære certainly well aware of the insurance fraud issue and the fact that it puts a floor on the price of ships, and thus on minerals. However, we assumed that this would have a roughly similar effect on most other minerals. We failed to recognize that scordite would become such a bottleneck 5 months after the tritanium supply was increased through asteroid reseeding and respawning. Hence, we stand corrected. The same is true of the analysis of Hulks, Obelisks and megacyte.
While we will keep on trying to improve our analysis and learn from our experience, we think itæs fair to assume that when it comes to analysis and in-game experience weære always going to be outperformed by a dedicated playerbase of 320 thousand.
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.04 05:58:00 -
[77]
Remove insurance for empire suicide ganks as a start will increase demand for ships
Pyterite if prices go up u just mine in wspace if prices justify it miners will deliver it. Hulks well that ties in with the lack of a moon goo expansion but those t2 bottlenecks were foreseen and ignored. Megacyte well more loot reprocessing will help
Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Krans Hopeson
Hypercube Ventures
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Posted - 2010.03.04 07:52:00 -
[78]
Originally by: HeliosGal
Remove insurance for empire suicide ganks as a start will increase demand for ships
No, quite the opposite.
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"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask." |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Dissonance Corp
Primary.
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Posted - 2010.03.05 00:39:00 -
[79]
Originally by: CCP Recurve
It is quite true that we did not see insurance fraud as as the reason for the growing pyerite prices.
Weære certainly well aware of the insurance fraud issue and the fact that it puts a floor on the price of ships, and thus on minerals. However, we assumed that this would have a roughly similar effect on most other minerals. We failed to recognize that scordite would become such a bottleneck 5 months after the tritanium supply was increased through asteroid reseeding and respawning. Hence, we stand corrected. The same is true of the analysis of Hulks, Obelisks and megacyte.
While we will keep on trying to improve our analysis and learn from our experience, we think itæs fair to assume that when it comes to analysis and in-game experience weære always going to be outperformed by a dedicated playerbase of 320 thousand.
I think the QEN was worth it just for a dev acknowledgment on the insurance thing :D. Oh, I think anyone who claims to have the EVE economy figured out 100% is a flat-out liar. However, anyone who trades regularly knows a little bit of something. Like I said before, I don't envy Dr.EyjoG's job of having to reverse engineer the the world's biggest MMO economy, especially if you don't have first-hand familiarity with the game (imagine the steps in figuring out why the 'Cormorant' is a more popular ship if you've never salvaged before). That being said, a lot of the aggregate statistics he threw out about the entire Eve universe (and history of) in that report turned out to be very interesting I thought. Some of the conclusions from that data were off, true, but improved conclusions wouldn't have been possible without the original data in the first place (it's hard to say 0.0 wasn't financially incentivized with Dominion when it seems everyone and their uncle is out mining megacyte).
Anyways, I have more questions I'd like to toss out for the next QEN to maybe look into:
1) How much money is made from contract scamming? By that I mean the classic swindler practices like adding an extra zero in the contract description when selling 50,000 zydrine, or adding "Caldari Navy" to a contracted Raven.
2) Corps and cash distribution? Do big corporations have more money per member? What's the separation between rich and poor members (say using a Gini coefficient)? Do corporation tax rates effect this? If so by how much?
3) Why is drone space so unpopular? Is the space simply that inferior or is it related to the player government's management of the region?
4) Officer modules. By far the most lucrative export per unit from nullsec to hisec professional mission runners, which loot and/or what region has the biggest footprint on this market? And, again, is that simply because the space is that much superior r is it related to the player government's management of the region?
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Yon Krum
The Knights Templar
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.03.05 04:52:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
3) Why is drone space so unpopular? Is the space simply that inferior or is it related to the player government's management of the region?
Anyone who's spent time in the Drone Regions can explain why it is unpopular: revenue stream complexity.
Examples from normal 0.0 for an average player:
1) Shoot rat -> Profit!
2) Shoot rat -> loot -> (reprocess--optional) -> haul to empire -> Profit!
3) Shoot rat -> salvage -> haul to empire -> Profit!
4) Mine -> compress -> (reprocess--optional) -> haul to empire -> Profit!
5) Scan down plex -> shoot rats -> (open profession cans--optional) -> loot -> haul special stuff to empire -> Profit!!!
Examples from Drone Regions for an average player:
1) Shoot rat -> loot -> reprocess* -> haul to empire** -> Profit!
2) Shoot rat -> salvage -> haul to empire -> Profit!
3) Mine -> compress -> (reprocess--optional) -> haul to empire -> Profit!
* You will refine at an alliance station, which taxes your minerals at various rates determined by how dastardly your leadership is.
** You pray your corp is providing free/subsidized jumpfreighter services. Regardless, jump fuel or JB fuel will be expensive as you'll use alot-- 20-30 mill for one-way to a relatively close region like Etherium. Using JB are also more dangerous of course.
Alliances and corporations make bank in Drone Regions by buying minerals (or collecting taxes), and then building capital ship components for sale in Empire (or building the caps themselves). The amount of money to be made in this is phenomenal, in part because for individual players the logistics of selling minerals in Empire are daunting. So, if you are very well organized logistically, your alliance can do quite well out there.
Now, note the comparison between revenue options: normal 0.0 has quite a few options, including plexes and their very, very tasty drops. Drone Region has the same plexes that you can find littering the rest of 0.0, and they drop low-demand sentient drone components with a chance for an escalation that if it completes CAN provide up to a billion in T2 salvage. Oh yeah, and the plex alloys are inferior in quantity to the same time in a belt. Whee.
It takes WORK to live in the Drone Regions, and if your alliance and personal playstyle are not configured/re-configured to accommodate that, life is hard and un-fun. That said, if your logistics get sorted you can make upwards of 40 million an hour belt-ratting, and your corp/alliance can make a ton of money building capitals.
--Krum
--Krum |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Dissonance Corp
Primary.
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Posted - 2010.03.05 12:04:00 -
[81]
I don't doubt it. Still, seeing some actual data behind it would be interesting.
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