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How horribly imbalanced can Missions be?

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Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.03.04 03:08:00 - [31] Edited by: Dacryphile on 04/03/2010 03:08:34 Originally by: Tian Nu Now i know why ppl cry to nerf lvl 4Æs no one run them in the right way, i will make fraps of every single mision (the big DPS ones) and show you that you never need to kill frigats until last. As I stated before if you can lock 7 targets nothing prevent you to lock 5 crusers and 2 frigs and send drones to frigs (if you are scared) I donÆt know what lvl 4Æs you run but mine tank never get even 1% perma run, only on enmy abound I can get to 20/25% cos I let the darkanas hiting me until and. If you need to kill frigs then you SUCK ! Put 20 frigs on BS who cares if you clean the room from all crusers and BS where is the DPS ? what can kill you. By focusing on frigats you losing time, time that you can use to clear up the incoming damage. Am going to make few fraps so ppl can start running lvl 4ös in the right way. Will add links to this post; Oh thank you glorious god of mission running. Missions are so complex we need a pro like you to show us all how it is done. Please continue to grace us with your vast knowledge of L4s. Pu Lease! Who said you need to use anything but drones to kill frigs. All anyone is suggesting is that if you are getting scrambled, its smart to kill that offending frigate. If the OP does that in the future, he will be fine. If the OP follows your advise, he will continue to lose ships. Nobody is advocating using furies to do it, just kill the thing. Oh, and I have to lol at how you scoff at dealing with frigs at any time but last, but you advocate killing cruisers first. Another job for the drones imo, unless there is nothing bigger left to kill. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.03.04 05:56:00 - [32] worlds collide 2nd room and a few others are the only time you don't want to use your drone to kill frigs right away. reason? read the surv. guide. best to aggro whole room(if possible). then launch drones and let them do thier job. leaving your drones in your ship till everything else is dead is just plain stupid.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.03.04 08:39:00 - [33] Quote: What? I don't do missions but you want them to make all the missions the same and at the same time ask them to make them more fun? lols Forgive him Lord, he knows not for what he asks. He asks that the activity most similar to mining, becomes easier. I mean, isn't there a droplet of decency left? Quote: I don't find A.E. and Enemies Abound particularly hard. Suffice to say that when I was new to L4, reading this forum and the eve-survival site I had this idea of AE being hard. And when it came to AE bonus room, a true screen of terror hovers over it. Movies show guys in deadspace fitted Golem down to 30% shields doing it, others warn about the ebil damage blah blah. Imagine when I finally decided to try anyway, in a lol meta4 x-large shield maelstrom with gallium guns and did this horrific bonus room while twiddling my thumbs... Since then, I deducted that many missioneers have to be atrociously bad players that will show anything like it's the end of the world. This thread is just one more proof. Quote: I MUST correct some ppl, NEVER KILL FRIGATS FIRST! You doing level 4Æs in BS I presume which means that frigates can NOT kill you no mather what. ALWAYS fallow this order: Crusers then BS then small **** in usual you should be able to lock 7 targets ( with multitasking) so try to lock 4 crusers and 3 frigs (once BS get in range you start pounding them). If you look at mission set ups most ships are frigates and crusers there is only few BS in every mission. Terrible advice. WEB frigates increase effective damage dealt on you by a lot. Their objective is to have the super close range 10000000 DPS NPC battleships reach and toast you. Target paint frigates also increase effective damage deal on you. Scrammers tend to randomly web (or do both), so they potentially combine the risk of web frigates with being pinned down in case the client crashes or the connection drops. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.04 08:50:00 - [34] Originally by: Tian Nu I MUST correct some ppl, NEVER KILL FRIGATS FIRST! You doing level 4’s in BS I presume which means that frigates can NOT kill you no mather what. ALWAYS fallow this order: No. The only absolute answer is "there are no absolute answers." If you always do things in a particular order, you will die. Repeatedly. You kill frigates first because they're actually the only ships that presents any kind of threat… unless they're wave triggers, in which you leave them until not-quite-last, unless there are other trigger ships, in which case you leave them until not-quite-last, unless there are ewar frigs, in which case you nuke them at the earliest convenience, unless etc… In saying "ALWAYS follow [yaddda yadda]" you're doing the exact same mistake as the op: you're assuming that all missions are the same and follow the same logic when in fact they do not. You adapt your tactics (what little of it is needed in missions – and it generally boils down to a choice involving frigates and triggers) to the mission at hand. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Ran Khanon Amarr Vengeance Innovations	Posted - 2010.03.04 09:03:00 - [35] Edited by: Ran Khanon on 04/03/2010 09:04:29 Originally by: Tian Nu Now i know why ppl cry to nerf lvl 4Æs no one run them in the right way, i will make fraps of every single mision (the big DPS ones) and show you that you never need to kill frigats until last. As I stated before if you can lock 7 targets nothing prevent you to lock 5 crusers and 2 frigs and send drones to frigs (if you are scared) I donÆt know what lvl 4Æs you run but mine tank never get even 1% perma run, only on enmy abound I can get to 20/25% cos I let the darkanas hiting me until and. If you need to kill frigs then you SUCK ! Put 20 frigs on BS who cares if you clean the room from all crusers and BS where is the DPS ? what can kill you. By focusing on frigats you losing time, time that you can use to clear up the incoming damage. Am going to make few fraps so ppl can start running lvl 4ös in the right way. Will add links to this post; Bravo! You are an experienced missioner who never gets a trigger wrong and knows exactly how much dps to expect and how to tank each level 4 and that you can survive it even when webbed and scrambled. For everyone else that doesn't want to take that risk: kill frigs asap unless they are triggers themselves, as they can prevent you from warping out when things go bad; when they are far out and tracking is not an issue, use guns (if you have them), when they are close use 5 small drones. p.s. Your approach is still risky, even for experienced mission runners. Imagine a nasty person jumping into your mission and killing all triggers before warping out when you are swamped by all the frigs that you save up for last ^_^ Support Lana's new bounty system.
My Postman	Posted - 2010.03.04 09:47:00 - [36] Originally by: Kzintee Edited by: Kzintee on 03/03/2010 18:11:41 - Sansha don't deal all EM damage. It's EM/T. Learn to setup your tank appropriately. - You don't get some magical bonus for using all drone bandwidth. Learn to use correct tools for the job, heavy drones suck at frigate hunting. - OMG, TWO elite frigs scramming! Hint: That's not a lot of frigs. You may be advised to avoid the following missions: - Worlds Collide - Angel Extravaganza - Enemies Abound Because once you run them you may rage so hard you will kill your dog, your mom and the postman. And we won't have any of the "can I haz your stuff" b/c you'll have none. In fact, here's a site that will help you excel at your internet gaming. Click here. Please don¦t kill me (RL)! Many good advices here, only one VERY BAD gues who. If there are scrambling frigs around kill them asap, as long as they are no triggers. Launch a flight of T2 hobos, kill frigs (15 sec.), than go for the damage dealers. Last to shoot is the trigger. When killing the scrambling frigs first, you can warp out if things go bad. Otherwise you die. Simple! Hope this helps.
Vincent Death Hyasyoda External Security Trade and Development	Posted - 2010.03.04 10:06:00 - [37] Level 4 missions are not hard, just frustrating. Theres one mission where a rat has FoF's, speedtank and a super shield booster. It cant feasibly kill you but takes forever to break the tank, or did for me at least. Missions being hard isnt a bad thing. Making them take a long time just as a speed bump measure is.
Cherubior Pernicious Creed	Posted - 2010.03.04 10:23:00 - [38] Nothing wrong with the mission, you just came unprepared. get better skills and stop whining to us about your failures ------------------------------------ yes, this is my sig. ------------------------------------
Tian Nu Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.03.04 11:37:00 - [39] I agree whith ppl that kill webers frigats, and again as i say you can lock for exemple 5 crusers and 2 frigs the point i try to make is always kill DPS in mision cos that what get you kiled. I mean I pure logic even if you get 10 webers on you once you killed the DPS you are home free. I donÆt say to be expert but I lost few ships when I started I just try to share experience as say before I will frap few of the DPS missions and will run them on the alt whith less that 10 mill skills (cruise lvl 3 lol) and will prove you that the skills donÆt mater (well they do ofc) but you can run missions in good way if you just do it right. I wonÆt pretend that I know the exact siance (even that I do realyse the post I made before was bit rude) but I strongly belive you should kill crusers, BS and then frigs it is the best order. Will probably upload something on youtube to day.
Khin'charin Amarr Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.03.04 14:35:00 - [40] Originally by: Tian Nu I agree whith ppl that kill webers frigats, and again as i say you can lock for exemple 5 crusers and 2 frigs the point i try to make is always kill DPS in mision cos that what get you kiled. Not being able to dictate range gets you killed. Not being able to warp out if you end up SOL, gets you killed. Not being able to keep transversal up against heavy hitters, gets you killed. Not having the firepower to nullify incomming DPS at quick enough pace, gets you killed. Not fielding correct tank, gets you killed. Failing at aggro management, gets you killed. ItÆs not the DPS in a mission that gets you killed, itÆs the mismanagement of said L4 and f-ing up, that gets you killed. Originally by: Tian Nu I strongly belive you should kill crusers, BS and then frigs it is the best order. Frigs should actually die while youÆre killing the other NPCÆs, unless youÆve already instapopped them at range. _________________________________ More blood for the blood god. Eternal darkness to the infidels.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2010.03.04 14:54:00 - [41] Originally by: Khin'charin Frigs should actually die while youÆre killing the other NPCÆs, unless youÆve already instapopped them at range. Unless you don't have drones. I fly a HML Tengu in missions so I have to kill everything with missiles eventually anyway. My typical kill order is elite frigs -> cruisers -> BS -> frigs/destroyers. The tacklers are the things that cause the most threat and I'm not going to risk my 1.2 bil investment on a disconnect or something (not to mention some missions, like Stop the Thief, put out so much DPS once the webbers get on me, I have to kill them first anyway) edit: and just to remind you, there is still no divider between posts and sigs.
Khin'charin Amarr Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.03.04 15:33:00 - [42] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Khin'charin Frigs should actually die while youÆre killing the other NPCÆs, unless youÆve already instapopped them at range. Unless you don't have drones. I fly a HML Tengu in missions so I have to kill everything with missiles eventually anyway. My typical kill order is elite frigs -> cruisers -> BS -> frigs/destroyers. The tacklers are the things that cause the most threat and I'm not going to risk my 1.2 bil investment on a disconnect or something (not to mention some missions, like Stop the Thief, put out so much DPS once the webbers get on me, I have to kill them first anyway) Yeah I know, totally.. and what about the rifter, I mean... _________________________________ More blood for the blood god. Eternal darkness to the infidels.
Mastin Dragonfly The Unemployement Agency	Posted - 2010.03.04 16:15:00 - [43] Hmmm, first thing I do in Pirate Invasion when all spawns have popped is agro them all, so I can get them all within 40km for my Paladin's tractor beams... You're underskilled or undergeared if your ship gets blown up just from the ships that agro on their own.
Tian Nu Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.03.04 16:18:00 - [44] ok there you go : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDP9jJJFNJg that how i run every single mision, the trd room is uploading. sry for the video qualyty is the first time i make them. This is done on mine alt whith 7 mill SP and horibol cruser misiles skills (lvl 3) but the shild skills are all to lvl 5 that why the tank is good. No rat specific hardeners (one EM, one ter two inv one shild amp and med shild booster (make the cap stable). Sadly i did the Pirate Invasion but the movie anded 39 gb so i can't upload but i promess to upload something that actualy give you huge DPS just to prove you that you never need to kill frigs. Last think this is done in CNR ofc there is advantage to shoot things as they are far.
Mastin Dragonfly The Unemployement Agency	Posted - 2010.03.04 16:22:00 - [45] Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 04/03/2010 16:22:13 Originally by: Khin'charin Not being able to dictate range gets you killed. Not being able to keep transversal up against heavy hitters, gets you killed. Last time I worried about dictating range and keeping up my transversal was when doing lvl 3 missions. Nowadays the only time my Paladin moves is when moving to the next gate...
Tian Nu Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.03.04 16:29:00 - [46] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 04/03/2010 16:22:13 Originally by: Khin'charin Not being able to dictate range gets you killed. Not being able to keep transversal up against heavy hitters, gets you killed. Last time I worried about dictating range and keeping up my transversal was when doing lvl 3 missions. Nowadays the only time my Paladin moves is when moving to the next gate... agree, tbh i will try to make fraps while not moving at all so i get even the full DPS from NPC, the all point i try to prove is "kill the DPS first" = no DPS no death :)
Khin'charin Amarr Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.03.04 16:41:00 - [47] Originally by: Tian Nu ok there you go : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDP9jJJFNJg I think you failed at youtube? _________________________________ More blood for the blood god. Eternal darkness to the infidels.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.04 16:47:00 - [48] Originally by: Tian Nu ok there you go : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDP9jJJFNJg that how i run every single mision, the trd room is uploading. sry for the video qualyty is the first time i make them. This is done on mine alt whith 7 mill SP and horibol cruser misiles skills (lvl 3) but the shild skills are all to lvl 5 that why the tank is good. No rat specific hardeners (one EM, one ter two inv one shild amp and med shild booster (make the cap stable). Sadly i did the Pirate Invasion but the movie anded 39 gb so i can't upload but i promess to upload something that actualy give you huge DPS just to prove you that you never need to kill frigs. Last think this is done in CNR ofc there is advantage to shoot things as they are far. This video has been removed because it is too long. Regular YouTube videos must be 10 minutes or less. make sure to at least speed it up 2x, and/or blitz harder next time plz! and since it is just a mission you could probably get away with lowering the fps.
Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.03.04 17:27:00 - [49] Originally by: Tian Nu ok there you go : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDP9jJJFNJg that how i run every single mision, the trd room is uploading. sry for the video qualyty is the first time i make them. This is done on mine alt whith 7 mill SP and horibol cruser misiles skills (lvl 3) but the shild skills are all to lvl 5 that why the tank is good. No rat specific hardeners (one EM, one ter two inv one shild amp and med shild booster (make the cap stable). Sadly i did the Pirate Invasion but the movie anded 39 gb so i can't upload but i promess to upload something that actualy give you huge DPS just to prove you that you never need to kill frigs. Last think this is done in CNR ofc there is advantage to shoot things as they are far. This video has been removed because it is too long. Regular YouTube videos must be 10 minutes or less. Even PI should not take more than 10 minutes. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Tian Nu Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.03.04 17:29:00 - [50] Originally by: Khin'charin Originally by: Tian Nu ok there you go : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDP9jJJFNJg I think you failed at youtube? definetly ! first time i tried to upload something damn noob am
Tian Nu Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.03.04 18:00:00 - [51] If you donÆt mind i can use some helpà how this guy make the movie go fast like this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yi_qq9bnsQ&feature=related can I do that whith fraps and virtualdub ? if so pls tell me :) or link some tutorial am total noob at this.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.04 18:40:00 - [52] Originally by: Tian Nu If you donÆt mind i can use some helpà how this guy make the movie go fast like this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yi_qq9bnsQ&feature=related can I do that whith fraps and virtualdub ? if so pls tell me :) or link some tutorial am total noob at this. try this thread: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1107781 a bunch of video resources there. I haven't done any video editing, but it seems possible to do in windows movie maker, and the adobe programs. and apparently macs "just work" so there is probably a program somewhere that can do what you need. I dunno about open software.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.04 18:47:00 - [53] in the virtualdub features page it says: "Adjust frame rate, decimate frames, and 3:2 pulldown removal." but I'm not sure if that means video frame rate or playback frame rate.
Tian Nu Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.03.04 18:51:00 - [54] ty Chainsaw am going to read that tuto and hope will make something ppl can actualy see on mine next ataempt xD
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2010.03.04 19:21:00 - [55] IMO all Level 4 missions should be the same or greater difficulty than the Angel Extravaganza bonus room (And no I don't care about your epeen if you think the bonus room is "super easy") Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
Mara Abraham Minmatar	Posted - 2010.03.04 21:22:00 - [56] Greetings: Actually, I think the A.E. bonus room is extremely hard. Granted, I tried it several times in a Drake; and each time barely got out (tanked specific to angel, improved passive and active shield tank certificates)... I could not hit the towers (heavy missile range limited to about 54 km), and barely got the frigates off me. And I did try multiple times (dock to regen shields fast then back). Thank you.
Ashira Twilight	Posted - 2010.03.04 21:57:00 - [57] Originally by: Caldyra Pirate Invasion 4 - Sansha I do have drone 5 and interface 3. I use a mix of light, medium and heavy to reach 75bwidth using 5 drones. i could probably have killed the drones but the damage being dealt was too high, too quick all the damage was EM, in caldari space. I dont mind having HARD missions. But the leap between "easy" as you would call and "ridiculous" is too high. There are some missions i would label as HARD and I had FUN making them. Two hard-to-hit ewar tier 2 frigs are a bit overkill to me! No wonder you can't kill the elite frigates. Use 5x Hobgoblin II next time around. You had two heavy drones slowboating way behind shooting and hitting nothing, two medium drones barely keeping up, and one single light drone actually doing damage. DPS is nothing if it isn't being applied.
Tanthius Vanter Gallente Vanter Ventures	Posted - 2010.03.04 22:46:00 - [58] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 04/03/2010 16:22:13 Originally by: Khin'charin Not being able to dictate range gets you killed. Not being able to keep transversal up against heavy hitters, gets you killed. Last time I worried about dictating range and keeping up my transversal was when doing lvl 3 missions. Nowadays the only time my Paladin moves is when moving to the next gate... Same for me and my Domi, but not going to be quite the same for a new player just starting level 4's. To anyone having trouble: If your tank is going down, get mobile, either by orbiting or aligning to a celestial and cranking up the engines (this has the added benefit of letting you warp out instantly).
Brechan Skene	Posted - 2010.03.04 22:47:00 - [59] Originally by: Caldyra This is clearly a rage post because I lost my ship to a Lvl4 mission. One mission you get 3M in rewards (and it's supposed to be hard) and the ships just come nicely in turns, noone scrams you, nothing is wrong. Then the next you get a mission for barely 1M and as you warp in you get 13 BS 5 BC shooting at you with TWO elite frigates scramming you. What's wrong with the designers? I don't care if you either make them ALL hard or ALL easy. Just keep some consistency and LEARN TO MAKE ENCOUNTERS FUN. phew I feel better. Ps: I use eve-survival but the elite scrammers just wouldnt go down, with drones or without What type of ship are you using? What was its setup? What was your exact Drone make up? I know you had a mixture of light, medium and heavy drones. Brechan
Lai Nat	Posted - 2010.03.05 01:49:00 - [60] Originally by: Caldyra I do have drone 5 and interface 3. I use a mix of light, medium and heavy to reach 75bwidth using 5 drones. i could probably have killed the drones but the damage being dealt was too high, too quick all the damage was EM, in caldari space. That's what got you killed, really. You weren't tanked enough for the mission, and most of the drones you fielded couldn't track the elite frigates. Don't worry about pushing out 75 bandwidth. Just carry 5 lights and 5 mediums. Launch the lights to kill the frigates, and use the mediums to help out your dps on the bigger ships. Other than that, fit to tank the mission. Depending on which ship you were flying... makes a big difference.

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