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Caldyra
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Posted - 2010.03.03 14:24:00 -
[1]
This is clearly a rage post because I lost my ship to a Lvl4 mission. One mission you get 3M in rewards (and it's supposed to be hard) and the ships just come nicely in turns, noone scrams you, nothing is wrong. Then the next you get a mission for barely 1M and as you warp in you get 13 BS 5 BC shooting at you with TWO elite frigates scramming you. What's wrong with the designers? I don't care if you either make them ALL hard or ALL easy. Just keep some consistency and LEARN TO MAKE ENCOUNTERS FUN.
phew I feel better. Ps: I use eve-survival but the elite scrammers just wouldnt go down, with drones or without
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2010.03.03 14:29:00 -
[2]
First, what mission was it?
Second, and I'm not intending to be rude, but if you couldn't kill two elite frigates with drones you need better drone skills. I'm not running missions now, but with Combat Drones IV, Drone Interfacing IV, and the racial Drone Specialization skills at 2, a flight of T2 light drones absolutely eats frigates. The only time I've had a problem was in the 2nd room of Worlds Collide when there were 6 scrambling Angel frigates, and I only had that problem because I screwed it up and had more than just that one group of ships attacking me at the time. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
K'uata Sayus
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Posted - 2010.03.03 14:30:00 -
[3]
"LEARN TO MAKE ENCOUNTERS FUN" - Translation: Easy
Looks like you need to train up better drone skills, etc. Which mission was this ship-busting nightmare anyway?
EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM. |
Caldyra
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Posted - 2010.03.03 14:35:00 -
[4]
Pirate Invasion 4 - Sansha
I do have drone 5 and interface 3. I use a mix of light, medium and heavy to reach 75bwidth using 5 drones. i could probably have killed the drones but the damage being dealt was too high, too quick all the damage was EM, in caldari space.
I dont mind having HARD missions. But the leap between "easy" as you would call and "ridiculous" is too high. There are some missions i would label as HARD and I had FUN making them. Two hard-to-hit ewar tier 2 frigs are a bit overkill to me!
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K'uata Sayus
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Posted - 2010.03.03 15:07:00 -
[5]
Two EM and Two Therm shield hardeners should have been sufficient to tank this mission. You only get two groups agro at a time, and should have been able to kite a bit and bombard them at 90km.
Sorry you lost your ship. I lost a Typhoon once in a rogue drone mission as I was scrambled also, and didn't realize the incoming damage was greater than my tank could handle.
Some Level IVs creep up on you, but I daresay you won't let it happen again the next time you get this mission.
EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM. |
Dacryphile
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Posted - 2010.03.03 15:08:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Dacryphile on 03/03/2010 15:08:56
Originally by: Caldyra Pirate Invasion 4 - Sansha
I do have drone 5 and interface 3. I use a mix of light, medium and heavy to reach 75bwidth using 5 drones. i could probably have killed the drones but the damage being dealt was too high, too quick all the damage was EM, in caldari space.
I dont mind having HARD missions. But the leap between "easy" as you would call and "ridiculous" is too high. There are some missions i would label as HARD and I had FUN making them. Two hard-to-hit ewar tier 2 frigs are a bit overkill to me!
I love that mission. Those frigs should go down easy. Get T2 drones, and skill up drone sharpshooting and you should be fine. Also, 5 light drones will work much better than heavies on frigs. I don't even think those frigs are considered elite.
Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
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Tian Nu
Evil Ppl
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Posted - 2010.03.03 15:14:00 -
[7]
if you lost ship in lvl 4, something is wrong...
try using this :
http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=HomePage
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2010.03.03 16:17:00 -
[8]
As a rule, any NPCs that deal primarily EM deal a LOT of dps. Sansha Pirate invasion is probably one of highest incoming dps missions out of all the lvl 4s. But those drones start off pretty far away and you should have been able to kill them.
If you're not absolutely sure you can tank something, you should always kill the elite frigates first. Lesson learned.
edit: and just to remind you, there is still no divider between posts and sigs.
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Khin'charin
Amarr Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.03.03 16:23:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Caldyra I use a mix of light, medium and heavy to reach 75bwidth using 5 drones.
Fail
Originally by: Caldyra all the damage was EM, in caldari space.
Fail tanking is fail
Also, I assume, you failed at aggro management.
Propper Planning Prevents Poor Performance
Fake edit: Yeah, I'm a meme warrior today.
_________________________________
More blood for the blood god. Eternal darkness to the infidels. |
Flitz Farseeker
Interstellar Stormfront
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Posted - 2010.03.03 16:30:00 -
[10]
On one of the first L4 missions I did, I wasn't paying enough attention and a couple of tackling frigs scrammed me just as my tank was failing. It wasn't pretty, but at least the ship was insured.
Nowadays, even though I can handle most L4s with ease, I check eve survival first to make sure I have the right hardeners fitted and if there are any surprises I need to watch out for. Makes things a lot easier.
Oh yeah, kill the frigs first!
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SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2010.03.03 16:33:00 -
[11]
Huh. I thought for sure this was going to be a rant about how missions are too easy and pay too well. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp |
King Rothgar
Violent By Design
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Posted - 2010.03.03 18:08:00 -
[12]
Pirate invasion vs sansha is like the absolute best lvl4 mission in eve. It's one of the top ones for profits and is both quick and easy with proper aggro management. It sounds to me like you just started blindly shooting all rats present. In that particular mission you get auto aggro from one group but they can only hit you from about 20km yet start 70km away. If they are still alive by the time they are actually in range to shoot back, you are doing it wrong.
I ran this particular mission today in an armor tanked abaddon. I never had to turn on my armor repper as they were all dead before breaking my shields. -----------------------------------------------------
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Kzintee
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.03 18:10:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Kzintee on 03/03/2010 18:11:41 - Sansha don't deal all EM damage. It's EM/T. Learn to setup your tank appropriately. - You don't get some magical bonus for using all drone bandwidth. Learn to use correct tools for the job, heavy drones suck at frigate hunting. - OMG, TWO elite frigs scramming! Hint: That's not a lot of frigs.
You may be advised to avoid the following missions: - Worlds Collide - Angel Extravaganza - Enemies Abound
Because once you run them you may rage so hard you will kill your dog, your mom and the postman. And we won't have any of the "can I haz your stuff" b/c you'll have none.
In fact, here's a site that will help you excel at your internet gaming. Click here.
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RavenPaine
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Posted - 2010.03.03 18:23:00 -
[14]
Get rid of the mixed drones thing your doing . Use 5 lights for frigates or 5 mediums for anything else .
Also , with Sansha. Keep them at range if possible and you hardly even need hardners . Its when they get close that you gonna get in trouble.
Keep those ships insured till you get familiar with lvl 4's. It makes a big difference .
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Sae'a
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Posted - 2010.03.03 18:38:00 -
[15]
"Note: Proximity aggro is a major factor in this mission. Please be aware that you can aggro a neutral group by just moving into its aggro bubble."
looks like you just get to close to them fit some weapons with enough range and nothing happens, this mission is as boring as 99%
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Riedle
Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.
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Posted - 2010.03.03 18:44:00 -
[16]
Quote: I don't care if you either make them ALL hard or ALL easy. Just keep some consistency and LEARN TO MAKE ENCOUNTERS FUN.
What? I don't do missions but you want them to make all the missions the same and at the same time ask them to make them more fun? lols
Forgive him Lord, he knows not for what he asks.
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Epicbeardman
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Posted - 2010.03.03 18:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sae'a "Note: Proximity aggro is a major factor in this mission. Please be aware that you can aggro a neutral group by just moving into its aggro bubble."
looks like you just get to close to them fit some weapons with enough range and nothing happens, this mission is as boring as 99%
At times the initial group aggros no matter what you do.
Even so, the one group that starts in optimal range can be easily dispatched before you even need to turn on your rep. There is absolutely no way the frigates could still be alive by the time you start taking more than 200dps unless you messed up.
In conclusion. You forgot your hardeners.
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Luc Guerrier
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.03.03 20:12:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Luc Guerrier on 03/03/2010 20:14:18
Originally by: Kzintee
You may be advised to avoid the following missions: - Worlds Collide - Angel Extravaganza - Enemies Abound
I don't find A.E. and Enemies Abound particularly hard. Worlds Collide stage 3 is actually the only mission where I ever got in trouble. Had the entire pocket aggro instantly on warp in twice now.
Oh and to the OP: There really is no nice way to put it so... If you can't get rid of two frigs you simply suck and need to learn to play.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.03.03 20:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: King Rothgar Pirate invasion vs sansha is like the absolute best lvl4 mission in eve. It's one of the top ones for profits and is both quick and easy with proper aggro management. It sounds to me like you just started blindly shooting all rats present. In that particular mission you get auto aggro from one group but they can only hit you from about 20km yet start 70km away. If they are still alive by the time they are actually in range to shoot back, you are doing it wrong.
I ran this particular mission today in an armor tanked abaddon. I never had to turn on my armor repper as they were all dead before breaking my shields.
indeed, can kill almost every single ship before it even gets inside 50km and can do damage to you. the exception, the spawn directly below you on warp in. and well, just kill them first.
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Psychotic Maniac
Caldari Head Shrinkers
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Posted - 2010.03.03 20:31:00 -
[20]
sounds to me you're not ready for lvl 4's.
GO BACK TO RUNNING LVL 3'S NOOB!
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.03.03 21:17:00 -
[21]
Train t2 drones and carry a flight of 5 light drones to deal with tackle frigates.
Ideally you'd have access to T2 light drones of every flavour, but you can get by with hobgoblin IIs and warrior IIs in your hangar - move the appropriate ones into your drone bay as you accept the mission.
[Aussie players: join channels ANZAC or AUSSIES] |
Tian Nu
Evil Ppl
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Posted - 2010.03.03 21:42:00 -
[22]
I MUST correct some ppl, NEVER KILL FRIGATS FIRST!
You doing level 4Æs in BS I presume which means that frigates can NOT kill you no mather what.
ALWAYS fallow this order:
Crusers then BS then small **** in usual you should be able to lock 7 targets ( with multitasking) so try to lock 4 crusers and 3 frigs (once BS get in range you start pounding them). If you look at mission set ups most ships are frigates and crusers there is only few BS in every mission. So REMEMBER:
1, crusers (why cos they drop fast and you get a lot incoming dps erased) 2, BS (you will lern what range they are dangerous) for exemple nightmare and machariel NPCÆs are not same range (but that experience) 3, once you killed everything kill the small **** (never shoot at them use æhobgoblins or warriors, hobgoblins seem to work better for me).
Last thing orbit ! highlight gate or something and set orbit so you perma moving. Oh and NEVER panic if you see the shild/armor going down just aline to something (ex asteoid belt) and try to get the DPS down if things get to structure just hit warp you will insta warp out (if not scrambled).
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Zilberfrid
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Posted - 2010.03.03 21:52:00 -
[23]
If you are not sure whether you can tank is, kill frigates first, no matter what dps the rest might dish out, two clicks with a flight of light t2 drones would have saved a lot of trouble.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2010.03.03 21:56:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tian Nu I MUST correct some ppl, NEVER KILL FRIGATS FIRST!
You doing level 4Æs in BS I presume which means that frigates can NOT kill you no mather what.
ALWAYS fallow this order:
Crusers then BS then small **** in usual you should be able to lock 7 targets ( with multitasking) so try to lock 4 crusers and 3 frigs (once BS get in range you start pounding them). If you look at mission set ups most ships are frigates and crusers there is only few BS in every mission. So REMEMBER:
1, crusers (why cos they drop fast and you get a lot incoming dps erased) 2, BS (you will lern what range they are dangerous) for exemple nightmare and machariel NPCÆs are not same range (but that experience) 3, once you killed everything kill the small **** (never shoot at them use æhobgoblins or warriors, hobgoblins seem to work better for me).
Last thing orbit ! highlight gate or something and set orbit so you perma moving. Oh and NEVER panic if you see the shild/armor going down just aline to something (ex asteoid belt) and try to get the DPS down if things get to structure just hit warp you will insta warp out (if not scrambled).
Actually, if you want to get technical, frigates are the only thing that can kill you since you will never die if you aren't tackled. Not to mention being webbed hurts your tank (you are setting an orbit to give yourself some transversal aren't you? It's free tank, afterall). If there's only two of them and they aren't a trigger for something, it makes zero sense to not kill them.
edit: and just to remind you, there is still no divider between posts and sigs.
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Tanthius Vanter
Gallente Vanter Ventures
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Posted - 2010.03.03 22:45:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Tanthius Vanter on 03/03/2010 22:53:28 Edited by: Tanthius Vanter on 03/03/2010 22:50:36
Originally by: Caldyra Pirate Invasion 4 - Sansha
I do have drone 5 and interface 3. I use a mix of light, medium and heavy to reach 75bwidth using 5 drones.
And that, sir, was your mistake. Do NOT use heavies on frigates. You're wasting your dps. Launch 5 lights for frigate killing, then once frigates are dead switch to however many meds or heavies you can support for killing frigates and battleships.
Originally by: Tian Nu I MUST correct some ppl, NEVER KILL FRIGATS FIRST!
Absolute worst advice in the thread. Frigates are the deadliest thing in level 4 missions. If you fight a hundred battleships that obliterate your tank, you can always run, rep, and come back. If a *single* frigate scrams you, then you can't hit and run, you just die. Now, if you're so tanked that nothing in the mission can bother you and you are 100% sure that nothing will force you to run, then sure, frigates aren't much of a threat (though as the previous poster said, a web frigate will severely increase the damage you take), though they also die so fast with 5 lights, so why not?
After frigates, I usually go for batteries if the mission has them, as they generally die pretty quickly relative to how much damage they do, so it's a fast way to mitigate a lot of dps, and are rarely triggers. (There's on L5 where a neut tower is a trigger but other than that I don't think I've ever seen a battery trigger.) After that, battlecruisers, because they're about as easy to kill as cruisers, but do more damage. After that, my friends and I sometimes debate whether to kill cruisers or battleships first, as they're about the same threat/hp ratio. I guess it depends on what presents the best target. Since my railguns have the horrid tracking, I usually have my drones eat cruisers while I pew pew battleships, but your mileage may vary. (Edit: I feel I should add, if you're having trouble, I wouldn't suggest splitting dps like I just mentioned. Usually by the time all frigates/battlecruisers are down I'm no longer in any danger, though if stuff still needs to die I'll either try to hit cruisers at long range where I can hit them, or have my drones help me eat batteships.)
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.03.03 22:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tian Nu I MUST correct some ppl, NEVER KILL FRIGATS FIRST!
You doing level 4Æs in BS I presume which means that frigates can NOT kill you no mather what.
ALWAYS fallow this order:
Crusers then BS then small **** in usual you should be able to lock 7 targets ( with multitasking) so try to lock 4 crusers and 3 frigs (once BS get in range you start pounding them). If you look at mission set ups most ships are frigates and crusers there is only few BS in every mission. So REMEMBER:
1, crusers (why cos they drop fast and you get a lot incoming dps erased) 2, BS (you will lern what range they are dangerous) for exemple nightmare and machariel NPCÆs are not same range (but that experience) 3, once you killed everything kill the small **** (never shoot at them use æhobgoblins or warriors, hobgoblins seem to work better for me).
Last thing orbit ! highlight gate or something and set orbit so you perma moving. Oh and NEVER panic if you see the shild/armor going down just aline to something (ex asteoid belt) and try to get the DPS down if things get to structure just hit warp you will insta warp out (if not scrambled).
pretty easy to just launch drones and forget the frigates are even there
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Luc Guerrier
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.03.03 23:49:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Luc Guerrier on 03/03/2010 23:53:07
Originally by: Tian Nu I MUST correct some ppl, NEVER KILL FRIGATS FIRST! ...
People tend to become extremist on forums for some strange reason. Always talking black and white. It's funny.
Here's just a few situations in which you *do* wanna kill frigs first:
- you're being tackled with some 5 bazillion hard hitters on your ass
- see 1 and add the fact that you decided to go for dps instead of going all out on tank
- you're in a gun boat, the frigs are approaching you, transversal is at zero. Basically this means instapopping all of them versus waiting for your effective but sub par dps lights to do the job.
Making good strategies rarely ever involves using the word "never".
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Dacryphile
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Posted - 2010.03.04 00:25:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tian Nu I MUST correct some ppl, NEVER KILL FRIGATS FIRST!
Horrible advise. If you are being tackled, kill that ship no matter what.
True story: Was scrammed in worlds collide. "No problem," I thought, "I can destroy the incoming dps quickly and tank this mission no prob." Then I got disconnected. I restarted eve asap, but it froze at the log in. Really panicking I restart it again, finally get logged in. My ship is still in the middle of the mission scrammed by that one frig and deep into structure.
Moral of the story, kill tackle frigs asap.
Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
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Tian Nu
Evil Ppl
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Posted - 2010.03.04 02:10:00 -
[29]
Now i know why ppl cry to nerf lvl 4Æs no one run them in the right way, i will make fraps of every single mision (the big DPS ones) and show you that you never need to kill frigats until last. As I stated before if you can lock 7 targets nothing prevent you to lock 5 crusers and 2 frigs and send drones to frigs (if you are scared) I donÆt know what lvl 4Æs you run but mine tank never get even 1% perma run, only on enmy abound I can get to 20/25% cos I let the darkanas hiting me until and. If you need to kill frigs then you SUCK ! Put 20 frigs on BS who cares if you clean the room from all crusers and BS where is the DPS ? what can kill you. By focusing on frigats you losing time, time that you can use to clear up the incoming damage. Am going to make few fraps so ppl can start running lvl 4ös in the right way. Will add links to this post;
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Tanthius Vanter
Gallente Vanter Ventures
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Posted - 2010.03.04 02:32:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tian Nu Now i know why ppl cry to nerf lvl 4Æs no one run them in the right way, i will make fraps of every single mision (the big DPS ones) and show you that you never need to kill frigats until last. As I stated before if you can lock 7 targets nothing prevent you to lock 5 crusers and 2 frigs and send drones to frigs (if you are scared) I donÆt know what lvl 4Æs you run but mine tank never get even 1% perma run, only on enmy abound I can get to 20/25% cos I let the darkanas hiting me until and. If you need to kill frigs then you SUCK ! Put 20 frigs on BS who cares if you clean the room from all crusers and BS where is the DPS ? what can kill you. By focusing on frigats you losing time, time that you can use to clear up the incoming damage. Am going to make few fraps so ppl can start running lvl 4ös in the right way. Will add links to this post;
Frigates don't kill you by doing a ton of dps on their own, no, they kill you by making everything ELSE do more dps, and then preventing you from running away when it gets hot. As I said before, sure, if you have a solid tank and plenty of skills then whatever, go ahead and ignore them. I generally ignore frigates on most Level 4's now too(5's are an entirely different story), but for newbies running their first few level 4's, "Kill frigates last" is the worst advice you could possibly give next to "Don't use resist modules."
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