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How horribly imbalanced can Missions be?

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Caldyra	Posted - 2010.03.03 14:24:00 - [1] This is clearly a rage post because I lost my ship to a Lvl4 mission. One mission you get 3M in rewards (and it's supposed to be hard) and the ships just come nicely in turns, noone scrams you, nothing is wrong. Then the next you get a mission for barely 1M and as you warp in you get 13 BS 5 BC shooting at you with TWO elite frigates scramming you. What's wrong with the designers? I don't care if you either make them ALL hard or ALL easy. Just keep some consistency and LEARN TO MAKE ENCOUNTERS FUN. phew I feel better. Ps: I use eve-survival but the elite scrammers just wouldnt go down, with drones or without
Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2010.03.03 14:29:00 - [2] First, what mission was it? Second, and I'm not intending to be rude, but if you couldn't kill two elite frigates with drones you need better drone skills. I'm not running missions now, but with Combat Drones IV, Drone Interfacing IV, and the racial Drone Specialization skills at 2, a flight of T2 light drones absolutely eats frigates. The only time I've had a problem was in the 2nd room of Worlds Collide when there were 6 scrambling Angel frigates, and I only had that problem because I screwed it up and had more than just that one group of ships attacking me at the time. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
K'uata Sayus	Posted - 2010.03.03 14:30:00 - [3] "LEARN TO MAKE ENCOUNTERS FUN" - Translation: Easy Looks like you need to train up better drone skills, etc. Which mission was this ship-busting nightmare anyway? EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM.
Caldyra	Posted - 2010.03.03 14:35:00 - [4] Pirate Invasion 4 - Sansha I do have drone 5 and interface 3. I use a mix of light, medium and heavy to reach 75bwidth using 5 drones. i could probably have killed the drones but the damage being dealt was too high, too quick all the damage was EM, in caldari space. I dont mind having HARD missions. But the leap between "easy" as you would call and "ridiculous" is too high. There are some missions i would label as HARD and I had FUN making them. Two hard-to-hit ewar tier 2 frigs are a bit overkill to me!
K'uata Sayus	Posted - 2010.03.03 15:07:00 - [5] Two EM and Two Therm shield hardeners should have been sufficient to tank this mission. You only get two groups agro at a time, and should have been able to kite a bit and bombard them at 90km. Sorry you lost your ship. I lost a Typhoon once in a rogue drone mission as I was scrambled also, and didn't realize the incoming damage was greater than my tank could handle. Some Level IVs creep up on you, but I daresay you won't let it happen again the next time you get this mission. EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM.
Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.03.03 15:08:00 - [6] Edited by: Dacryphile on 03/03/2010 15:08:56 Originally by: Caldyra Pirate Invasion 4 - Sansha I do have drone 5 and interface 3. I use a mix of light, medium and heavy to reach 75bwidth using 5 drones. i could probably have killed the drones but the damage being dealt was too high, too quick all the damage was EM, in caldari space. I dont mind having HARD missions. But the leap between "easy" as you would call and "ridiculous" is too high. There are some missions i would label as HARD and I had FUN making them. Two hard-to-hit ewar tier 2 frigs are a bit overkill to me! I love that mission. Those frigs should go down easy. Get T2 drones, and skill up drone sharpshooting and you should be fine. Also, 5 light drones will work much better than heavies on frigs. I don't even think those frigs are considered elite. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Tian Nu Evil Ppl	Posted - 2010.03.03 15:14:00 - [7] if you lost ship in lvl 4, something is wrong... try using this : http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=HomePage
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2010.03.03 16:17:00 - [8] As a rule, any NPCs that deal primarily EM deal a LOT of dps. Sansha Pirate invasion is probably one of highest incoming dps missions out of all the lvl 4s. But those drones start off pretty far away and you should have been able to kill them. If you're not absolutely sure you can tank something, you should always kill the elite frigates first. Lesson learned. edit: and just to remind you, there is still no divider between posts and sigs.
Khin'charin Amarr Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.03.03 16:23:00 - [9] Originally by: Caldyra I use a mix of light, medium and heavy to reach 75bwidth using 5 drones. Fail Originally by: Caldyra all the damage was EM, in caldari space. Fail tanking is fail Also, I assume, you failed at aggro management. Propper Planning Prevents Poor Performance Fake edit: Yeah, I'm a meme warrior today. _________________________________ More blood for the blood god. Eternal darkness to the infidels.
Flitz Farseeker Interstellar Stormfront	Posted - 2010.03.03 16:30:00 - [10] On one of the first L4 missions I did, I wasn't paying enough attention and a couple of tackling frigs scrammed me just as my tank was failing. It wasn't pretty, but at least the ship was insured. Nowadays, even though I can handle most L4s with ease, I check eve survival first to make sure I have the right hardeners fitted and if there are any surprises I need to watch out for. Makes things a lot easier. Oh yeah, kill the frigs first!
SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2010.03.03 16:33:00 - [11] Huh. I thought for sure this was going to be a rant about how missions are too easy and pay too well. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp
King Rothgar Violent By Design	Posted - 2010.03.03 18:08:00 - [12] Pirate invasion vs sansha is like the absolute best lvl4 mission in eve. It's one of the top ones for profits and is both quick and easy with proper aggro management. It sounds to me like you just started blindly shooting all rats present. In that particular mission you get auto aggro from one group but they can only hit you from about 20km yet start 70km away. If they are still alive by the time they are actually in range to shoot back, you are doing it wrong. I ran this particular mission today in an armor tanked abaddon. I never had to turn on my armor repper as they were all dead before breaking my shields. -----------------------------------------------------
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2010.03.03 18:10:00 - [13] Edited by: Kzintee on 03/03/2010 18:11:41 - Sansha don't deal all EM damage. It's EM/T. Learn to setup your tank appropriately. - You don't get some magical bonus for using all drone bandwidth. Learn to use correct tools for the job, heavy drones suck at frigate hunting. - OMG, TWO elite frigs scramming! Hint: That's not a lot of frigs. You may be advised to avoid the following missions: - Worlds Collide - Angel Extravaganza - Enemies Abound Because once you run them you may rage so hard you will kill your dog, your mom and the postman. And we won't have any of the "can I haz your stuff" b/c you'll have none. In fact, here's a site that will help you excel at your internet gaming. Click here.
RavenPaine	Posted - 2010.03.03 18:23:00 - [14] Get rid of the mixed drones thing your doing . Use 5 lights for frigates or 5 mediums for anything else . Also , with Sansha. Keep them at range if possible and you hardly even need hardners . Its when they get close that you gonna get in trouble. Keep those ships insured till you get familiar with lvl 4's. It makes a big difference .
Sae'a	Posted - 2010.03.03 18:38:00 - [15] "Note: Proximity aggro is a major factor in this mission. Please be aware that you can aggro a neutral group by just moving into its aggro bubble." looks like you just get to close to them fit some weapons with enough range and nothing happens, this mission is as boring as 99%
Riedle Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.	Posted - 2010.03.03 18:44:00 - [16] Quote: I don't care if you either make them ALL hard or ALL easy. Just keep some consistency and LEARN TO MAKE ENCOUNTERS FUN. What? I don't do missions but you want them to make all the missions the same and at the same time ask them to make them more fun? lols Forgive him Lord, he knows not for what he asks.
Epicbeardman	Posted - 2010.03.03 18:55:00 - [17] Originally by: Sae'a "Note: Proximity aggro is a major factor in this mission. Please be aware that you can aggro a neutral group by just moving into its aggro bubble." looks like you just get to close to them fit some weapons with enough range and nothing happens, this mission is as boring as 99% At times the initial group aggros no matter what you do. Even so, the one group that starts in optimal range can be easily dispatched before you even need to turn on your rep. There is absolutely no way the frigates could still be alive by the time you start taking more than 200dps unless you messed up. In conclusion. You forgot your hardeners.
Luc Guerrier Aliastra	Posted - 2010.03.03 20:12:00 - [18] Edited by: Luc Guerrier on 03/03/2010 20:14:18 Originally by: Kzintee You may be advised to avoid the following missions: - Worlds Collide - Angel Extravaganza - Enemies Abound I don't find A.E. and Enemies Abound particularly hard. Worlds Collide stage 3 is actually the only mission where I ever got in trouble. Had the entire pocket aggro instantly on warp in twice now. Oh and to the OP: There really is no nice way to put it so... If you can't get rid of two frigs you simply suck and need to learn to play.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.03 20:22:00 - [19] Originally by: King Rothgar Pirate invasion vs sansha is like the absolute best lvl4 mission in eve. It's one of the top ones for profits and is both quick and easy with proper aggro management. It sounds to me like you just started blindly shooting all rats present. In that particular mission you get auto aggro from one group but they can only hit you from about 20km yet start 70km away. If they are still alive by the time they are actually in range to shoot back, you are doing it wrong. I ran this particular mission today in an armor tanked abaddon. I never had to turn on my armor repper as they were all dead before breaking my shields. indeed, can kill almost every single ship before it even gets inside 50km and can do damage to you. the exception, the spawn directly below you on warp in. and well, just kill them first.
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.03.03 20:31:00 - [20] sounds to me you're not ready for lvl 4's. GO BACK TO RUNNING LVL 3'S NOOB!
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.03.03 21:17:00 - [21] Train t2 drones and carry a flight of 5 light drones to deal with tackle frigates. Ideally you'd have access to T2 light drones of every flavour, but you can get by with hobgoblin IIs and warrior IIs in your hangar - move the appropriate ones into your drone bay as you accept the mission. [Aussie players: join channels ANZAC or AUSSIES]
Tian Nu Evil Ppl	Posted - 2010.03.03 21:42:00 - [22] I MUST correct some ppl, NEVER KILL FRIGATS FIRST! You doing level 4Æs in BS I presume which means that frigates can NOT kill you no mather what. ALWAYS fallow this order: Crusers then BS then small ** in usual you should be able to lock 7 targets ( with multitasking) so try to lock 4 crusers and 3 frigs (once BS get in range you start pounding them). If you look at mission set ups most ships are frigates and crusers there is only few BS in every mission. So REMEMBER: 1, crusers (why cos they drop fast and you get a lot incoming dps erased) 2, BS (you will lern what range they are dangerous) for exemple nightmare and machariel NPCÆs are not same range (but that experience) 3, once you killed everything kill the small ** (never shoot at them use æhobgoblins or warriors, hobgoblins seem to work better for me). Last thing orbit ! highlight gate or something and set orbit so you perma moving. Oh and NEVER panic if you see the shild/armor going down just aline to something (ex asteoid belt) and try to get the DPS down if things get to structure just hit warp you will insta warp out (if not scrambled).
Zilberfrid	Posted - 2010.03.03 21:52:00 - [23] If you are not sure whether you can tank is, kill frigates first, no matter what dps the rest might dish out, two clicks with a flight of light t2 drones would have saved a lot of trouble.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2010.03.03 21:56:00 - [24] Originally by: Tian Nu I MUST correct some ppl, NEVER KILL FRIGATS FIRST! You doing level 4Æs in BS I presume which means that frigates can NOT kill you no mather what. ALWAYS fallow this order: Crusers then BS then small ** in usual you should be able to lock 7 targets ( with multitasking) so try to lock 4 crusers and 3 frigs (once BS get in range you start pounding them). If you look at mission set ups most ships are frigates and crusers there is only few BS in every mission. So REMEMBER: 1, crusers (why cos they drop fast and you get a lot incoming dps erased) 2, BS (you will lern what range they are dangerous) for exemple nightmare and machariel NPCÆs are not same range (but that experience) 3, once you killed everything kill the small ** (never shoot at them use æhobgoblins or warriors, hobgoblins seem to work better for me). Last thing orbit ! highlight gate or something and set orbit so you perma moving. Oh and NEVER panic if you see the shild/armor going down just aline to something (ex asteoid belt) and try to get the DPS down if things get to structure just hit warp you will insta warp out (if not scrambled). Actually, if you want to get technical, frigates are the only thing that can kill you since you will never die if you aren't tackled. Not to mention being webbed hurts your tank (you are setting an orbit to give yourself some transversal aren't you? It's free tank, afterall). If there's only two of them and they aren't a trigger for something, it makes zero sense to not kill them. edit: and just to remind you, there is still no divider between posts and sigs.
Tanthius Vanter Gallente Vanter Ventures	Posted - 2010.03.03 22:45:00 - [25] Edited by: Tanthius Vanter on 03/03/2010 22:53:28 Edited by: Tanthius Vanter on 03/03/2010 22:50:36 Originally by: Caldyra Pirate Invasion 4 - Sansha I do have drone 5 and interface 3. I use a mix of light, medium and heavy to reach 75bwidth using 5 drones. And that, sir, was your mistake. Do NOT use heavies on frigates. You're wasting your dps. Launch 5 lights for frigate killing, then once frigates are dead switch to however many meds or heavies you can support for killing frigates and battleships. Originally by: Tian Nu I MUST correct some ppl, NEVER KILL FRIGATS FIRST! Absolute worst advice in the thread. Frigates are the deadliest thing in level 4 missions. If you fight a hundred battleships that obliterate your tank, you can always run, rep, and come back. If a single frigate scrams you, then you can't hit and run, you just die. Now, if you're so tanked that nothing in the mission can bother you and you are 100% sure that nothing will force you to run, then sure, frigates aren't much of a threat (though as the previous poster said, a web frigate will severely increase the damage you take), though they also die so fast with 5 lights, so why not? After frigates, I usually go for batteries if the mission has them, as they generally die pretty quickly relative to how much damage they do, so it's a fast way to mitigate a lot of dps, and are rarely triggers. (There's on L5 where a neut tower is a trigger but other than that I don't think I've ever seen a battery trigger.) After that, battlecruisers, because they're about as easy to kill as cruisers, but do more damage. After that, my friends and I sometimes debate whether to kill cruisers or battleships first, as they're about the same threat/hp ratio. I guess it depends on what presents the best target. Since my railguns have the horrid tracking, I usually have my drones eat cruisers while I pew pew battleships, but your mileage may vary. (Edit: I feel I should add, if you're having trouble, I wouldn't suggest splitting dps like I just mentioned. Usually by the time all frigates/battlecruisers are down I'm no longer in any danger, though if stuff still needs to die I'll either try to hit cruisers at long range where I can hit them, or have my drones help me eat batteships.)
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.03 22:51:00 - [26] Originally by: Tian Nu I MUST correct some ppl, NEVER KILL FRIGATS FIRST! You doing level 4Æs in BS I presume which means that frigates can NOT kill you no mather what. ALWAYS fallow this order: Crusers then BS then small ** in usual you should be able to lock 7 targets ( with multitasking) so try to lock 4 crusers and 3 frigs (once BS get in range you start pounding them). If you look at mission set ups most ships are frigates and crusers there is only few BS in every mission. So REMEMBER: 1, crusers (why cos they drop fast and you get a lot incoming dps erased) 2, BS (you will lern what range they are dangerous) for exemple nightmare and machariel NPCÆs are not same range (but that experience) 3, once you killed everything kill the small ** (never shoot at them use æhobgoblins or warriors, hobgoblins seem to work better for me). Last thing orbit ! highlight gate or something and set orbit so you perma moving. Oh and NEVER panic if you see the shild/armor going down just aline to something (ex asteoid belt) and try to get the DPS down if things get to structure just hit warp you will insta warp out (if not scrambled). pretty easy to just launch drones and forget the frigates are even there
Luc Guerrier Aliastra	Posted - 2010.03.03 23:49:00 - [27] Edited by: Luc Guerrier on 03/03/2010 23:53:07 Originally by: Tian Nu I MUST correct some ppl, NEVER KILL FRIGATS FIRST! ... People tend to become extremist on forums for some strange reason. Always talking black and white. It's funny. Here's just a few situations in which you do wanna kill frigs first: you're being tackled with some 5 bazillion hard hitters on your ass see 1 and add the fact that you decided to go for dps instead of going all out on tank you're in a gun boat, the frigs are approaching you, transversal is at zero. Basically this means instapopping all of them versus waiting for your effective but sub par dps lights to do the job. Making good strategies rarely ever involves using the word "never".
Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.03.04 00:25:00 - [28] Originally by: Tian Nu I MUST correct some ppl, NEVER KILL FRIGATS FIRST! Horrible advise. If you are being tackled, kill that ship no matter what. True story: Was scrammed in worlds collide. "No problem," I thought, "I can destroy the incoming dps quickly and tank this mission no prob." Then I got disconnected. I restarted eve asap, but it froze at the log in. Really panicking I restart it again, finally get logged in. My ship is still in the middle of the mission scrammed by that one frig and deep into structure. Moral of the story, kill tackle frigs asap. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Tian Nu Evil Ppl	Posted - 2010.03.04 02:10:00 - [29] Now i know why ppl cry to nerf lvl 4Æs no one run them in the right way, i will make fraps of every single mision (the big DPS ones) and show you that you never need to kill frigats until last. As I stated before if you can lock 7 targets nothing prevent you to lock 5 crusers and 2 frigs and send drones to frigs (if you are scared) I donÆt know what lvl 4Æs you run but mine tank never get even 1% perma run, only on enmy abound I can get to 20/25% cos I let the darkanas hiting me until and. If you need to kill frigs then you SUCK ! Put 20 frigs on BS who cares if you clean the room from all crusers and BS where is the DPS ? what can kill you. By focusing on frigats you losing time, time that you can use to clear up the incoming damage. Am going to make few fraps so ppl can start running lvl 4ös in the right way. Will add links to this post;
Tanthius Vanter Gallente Vanter Ventures	Posted - 2010.03.04 02:32:00 - [30] Originally by: Tian Nu Now i know why ppl cry to nerf lvl 4Æs no one run them in the right way, i will make fraps of every single mision (the big DPS ones) and show you that you never need to kill frigats until last. As I stated before if you can lock 7 targets nothing prevent you to lock 5 crusers and 2 frigs and send drones to frigs (if you are scared) I donÆt know what lvl 4Æs you run but mine tank never get even 1% perma run, only on enmy abound I can get to 20/25% cos I let the darkanas hiting me until and. If you need to kill frigs then you SUCK ! Put 20 frigs on BS who cares if you clean the room from all crusers and BS where is the DPS ? what can kill you. By focusing on frigats you losing time, time that you can use to clear up the incoming damage. Am going to make few fraps so ppl can start running lvl 4ös in the right way. Will add links to this post; Frigates don't kill you by doing a ton of dps on their own, no, they kill you by making everything ELSE do more dps, and then preventing you from running away when it gets hot. As I said before, sure, if you have a solid tank and plenty of skills then whatever, go ahead and ignore them. I generally ignore frigates on most Level 4's now too(5's are an entirely different story), but for newbies running their first few level 4's, "Kill frigates last" is the worst advice you could possibly give next to "Don't use resist modules."
Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.03.04 03:08:00 - [31] Edited by: Dacryphile on 04/03/2010 03:08:34 Originally by: Tian Nu Now i know why ppl cry to nerf lvl 4Æs no one run them in the right way, i will make fraps of every single mision (the big DPS ones) and show you that you never need to kill frigats until last. As I stated before if you can lock 7 targets nothing prevent you to lock 5 crusers and 2 frigs and send drones to frigs (if you are scared) I donÆt know what lvl 4Æs you run but mine tank never get even 1% perma run, only on enmy abound I can get to 20/25% cos I let the darkanas hiting me until and. If you need to kill frigs then you SUCK ! Put 20 frigs on BS who cares if you clean the room from all crusers and BS where is the DPS ? what can kill you. By focusing on frigats you losing time, time that you can use to clear up the incoming damage. Am going to make few fraps so ppl can start running lvl 4ös in the right way. Will add links to this post; Oh thank you glorious god of mission running. Missions are so complex we need a pro like you to show us all how it is done. Please continue to grace us with your vast knowledge of L4s. Pu Lease! Who said you need to use anything but drones to kill frigs. All anyone is suggesting is that if you are getting scrambled, its smart to kill that offending frigate. If the OP does that in the future, he will be fine. If the OP follows your advise, he will continue to lose ships. Nobody is advocating using furies to do it, just kill the thing. Oh, and I have to lol at how you scoff at dealing with frigs at any time but last, but you advocate killing cruisers first. Another job for the drones imo, unless there is nothing bigger left to kill. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.03.04 05:56:00 - [32] worlds collide 2nd room and a few others are the only time you don't want to use your drone to kill frigs right away. reason? read the surv. guide. best to aggro whole room(if possible). then launch drones and let them do thier job. leaving your drones in your ship till everything else is dead is just plain stupid.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.03.04 08:39:00 - [33] Quote: What? I don't do missions but you want them to make all the missions the same and at the same time ask them to make them more fun? lols Forgive him Lord, he knows not for what he asks. He asks that the activity most similar to mining, becomes easier. I mean, isn't there a droplet of decency left? Quote: I don't find A.E. and Enemies Abound particularly hard. Suffice to say that when I was new to L4, reading this forum and the eve-survival site I had this idea of AE being hard. And when it came to AE bonus room, a true screen of terror hovers over it. Movies show guys in deadspace fitted Golem down to 30% shields doing it, others warn about the ebil damage blah blah. Imagine when I finally decided to try anyway, in a lol meta4 x-large shield maelstrom with gallium guns and did this horrific bonus room while twiddling my thumbs... Since then, I deducted that many missioneers have to be atrociously bad players that will show anything like it's the end of the world. This thread is just one more proof. Quote: I MUST correct some ppl, NEVER KILL FRIGATS FIRST! You doing level 4Æs in BS I presume which means that frigates can NOT kill you no mather what. ALWAYS fallow this order: Crusers then BS then small **** in usual you should be able to lock 7 targets ( with multitasking) so try to lock 4 crusers and 3 frigs (once BS get in range you start pounding them). If you look at mission set ups most ships are frigates and crusers there is only few BS in every mission. Terrible advice. WEB frigates increase effective damage dealt on you by a lot. Their objective is to have the super close range 10000000 DPS NPC battleships reach and toast you. Target paint frigates also increase effective damage deal on you. Scrammers tend to randomly web (or do both), so they potentially combine the risk of web frigates with being pinned down in case the client crashes or the connection drops. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.04 08:50:00 - [34] Originally by: Tian Nu I MUST correct some ppl, NEVER KILL FRIGATS FIRST! You doing level 4’s in BS I presume which means that frigates can NOT kill you no mather what. ALWAYS fallow this order: No. The only absolute answer is "there are no absolute answers." If you always do things in a particular order, you will die. Repeatedly. You kill frigates first because they're actually the only ships that presents any kind of threat… unless they're wave triggers, in which you leave them until not-quite-last, unless there are other trigger ships, in which case you leave them until not-quite-last, unless there are ewar frigs, in which case you nuke them at the earliest convenience, unless etc… In saying "ALWAYS follow [yaddda yadda]" you're doing the exact same mistake as the op: you're assuming that all missions are the same and follow the same logic when in fact they do not. You adapt your tactics (what little of it is needed in missions – and it generally boils down to a choice involving frigates and triggers) to the mission at hand. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Ran Khanon Amarr Vengeance Innovations	Posted - 2010.03.04 09:03:00 - [35] Edited by: Ran Khanon on 04/03/2010 09:04:29 Originally by: Tian Nu Now i know why ppl cry to nerf lvl 4Æs no one run them in the right way, i will make fraps of every single mision (the big DPS ones) and show you that you never need to kill frigats until last. As I stated before if you can lock 7 targets nothing prevent you to lock 5 crusers and 2 frigs and send drones to frigs (if you are scared) I donÆt know what lvl 4Æs you run but mine tank never get even 1% perma run, only on enmy abound I can get to 20/25% cos I let the darkanas hiting me until and. If you need to kill frigs then you SUCK ! Put 20 frigs on BS who cares if you clean the room from all crusers and BS where is the DPS ? what can kill you. By focusing on frigats you losing time, time that you can use to clear up the incoming damage. Am going to make few fraps so ppl can start running lvl 4ös in the right way. Will add links to this post; Bravo! You are an experienced missioner who never gets a trigger wrong and knows exactly how much dps to expect and how to tank each level 4 and that you can survive it even when webbed and scrambled. For everyone else that doesn't want to take that risk: kill frigs asap unless they are triggers themselves, as they can prevent you from warping out when things go bad; when they are far out and tracking is not an issue, use guns (if you have them), when they are close use 5 small drones. p.s. Your approach is still risky, even for experienced mission runners. Imagine a nasty person jumping into your mission and killing all triggers before warping out when you are swamped by all the frigs that you save up for last ^_^ Support Lana's new bounty system.
My Postman	Posted - 2010.03.04 09:47:00 - [36] Originally by: Kzintee Edited by: Kzintee on 03/03/2010 18:11:41 - Sansha don't deal all EM damage. It's EM/T. Learn to setup your tank appropriately. - You don't get some magical bonus for using all drone bandwidth. Learn to use correct tools for the job, heavy drones suck at frigate hunting. - OMG, TWO elite frigs scramming! Hint: That's not a lot of frigs. You may be advised to avoid the following missions: - Worlds Collide - Angel Extravaganza - Enemies Abound Because once you run them you may rage so hard you will kill your dog, your mom and the postman. And we won't have any of the "can I haz your stuff" b/c you'll have none. In fact, here's a site that will help you excel at your internet gaming. Click here. Please don¦t kill me (RL)! Many good advices here, only one VERY BAD gues who. If there are scrambling frigs around kill them asap, as long as they are no triggers. Launch a flight of T2 hobos, kill frigs (15 sec.), than go for the damage dealers. Last to shoot is the trigger. When killing the scrambling frigs first, you can warp out if things go bad. Otherwise you die. Simple! Hope this helps.
Vincent Death Hyasyoda External Security Trade and Development	Posted - 2010.03.04 10:06:00 - [37] Level 4 missions are not hard, just frustrating. Theres one mission where a rat has FoF's, speedtank and a super shield booster. It cant feasibly kill you but takes forever to break the tank, or did for me at least. Missions being hard isnt a bad thing. Making them take a long time just as a speed bump measure is.
Cherubior Pernicious Creed	Posted - 2010.03.04 10:23:00 - [38] Nothing wrong with the mission, you just came unprepared. get better skills and stop whining to us about your failures ------------------------------------ yes, this is my sig. ------------------------------------
Tian Nu Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.03.04 11:37:00 - [39] I agree whith ppl that kill webers frigats, and again as i say you can lock for exemple 5 crusers and 2 frigs the point i try to make is always kill DPS in mision cos that what get you kiled. I mean I pure logic even if you get 10 webers on you once you killed the DPS you are home free. I donÆt say to be expert but I lost few ships when I started I just try to share experience as say before I will frap few of the DPS missions and will run them on the alt whith less that 10 mill skills (cruise lvl 3 lol) and will prove you that the skills donÆt mater (well they do ofc) but you can run missions in good way if you just do it right. I wonÆt pretend that I know the exact siance (even that I do realyse the post I made before was bit rude) but I strongly belive you should kill crusers, BS and then frigs it is the best order. Will probably upload something on youtube to day.
Khin'charin Amarr Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.03.04 14:35:00 - [40] Originally by: Tian Nu I agree whith ppl that kill webers frigats, and again as i say you can lock for exemple 5 crusers and 2 frigs the point i try to make is always kill DPS in mision cos that what get you kiled. Not being able to dictate range gets you killed. Not being able to warp out if you end up SOL, gets you killed. Not being able to keep transversal up against heavy hitters, gets you killed. Not having the firepower to nullify incomming DPS at quick enough pace, gets you killed. Not fielding correct tank, gets you killed. Failing at aggro management, gets you killed. ItÆs not the DPS in a mission that gets you killed, itÆs the mismanagement of said L4 and f-ing up, that gets you killed. Originally by: Tian Nu I strongly belive you should kill crusers, BS and then frigs it is the best order. Frigs should actually die while youÆre killing the other NPCÆs, unless youÆve already instapopped them at range. _________________________________ More blood for the blood god. Eternal darkness to the infidels.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2010.03.04 14:54:00 - [41] Originally by: Khin'charin Frigs should actually die while youÆre killing the other NPCÆs, unless youÆve already instapopped them at range. Unless you don't have drones. I fly a HML Tengu in missions so I have to kill everything with missiles eventually anyway. My typical kill order is elite frigs -> cruisers -> BS -> frigs/destroyers. The tacklers are the things that cause the most threat and I'm not going to risk my 1.2 bil investment on a disconnect or something (not to mention some missions, like Stop the Thief, put out so much DPS once the webbers get on me, I have to kill them first anyway) edit: and just to remind you, there is still no divider between posts and sigs.
Khin'charin Amarr Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.03.04 15:33:00 - [42] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Khin'charin Frigs should actually die while youÆre killing the other NPCÆs, unless youÆve already instapopped them at range. Unless you don't have drones. I fly a HML Tengu in missions so I have to kill everything with missiles eventually anyway. My typical kill order is elite frigs -> cruisers -> BS -> frigs/destroyers. The tacklers are the things that cause the most threat and I'm not going to risk my 1.2 bil investment on a disconnect or something (not to mention some missions, like Stop the Thief, put out so much DPS once the webbers get on me, I have to kill them first anyway) Yeah I know, totally.. and what about the rifter, I mean... _________________________________ More blood for the blood god. Eternal darkness to the infidels.
Mastin Dragonfly The Unemployement Agency	Posted - 2010.03.04 16:15:00 - [43] Hmmm, first thing I do in Pirate Invasion when all spawns have popped is agro them all, so I can get them all within 40km for my Paladin's tractor beams... You're underskilled or undergeared if your ship gets blown up just from the ships that agro on their own.
Tian Nu Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.03.04 16:18:00 - [44] ok there you go : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDP9jJJFNJg that how i run every single mision, the trd room is uploading. sry for the video qualyty is the first time i make them. This is done on mine alt whith 7 mill SP and horibol cruser misiles skills (lvl 3) but the shild skills are all to lvl 5 that why the tank is good. No rat specific hardeners (one EM, one ter two inv one shild amp and med shild booster (make the cap stable). Sadly i did the Pirate Invasion but the movie anded 39 gb so i can't upload but i promess to upload something that actualy give you huge DPS just to prove you that you never need to kill frigs. Last think this is done in CNR ofc there is advantage to shoot things as they are far.
Mastin Dragonfly The Unemployement Agency	Posted - 2010.03.04 16:22:00 - [45] Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 04/03/2010 16:22:13 Originally by: Khin'charin Not being able to dictate range gets you killed. Not being able to keep transversal up against heavy hitters, gets you killed. Last time I worried about dictating range and keeping up my transversal was when doing lvl 3 missions. Nowadays the only time my Paladin moves is when moving to the next gate...
Tian Nu Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.03.04 16:29:00 - [46] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 04/03/2010 16:22:13 Originally by: Khin'charin Not being able to dictate range gets you killed. Not being able to keep transversal up against heavy hitters, gets you killed. Last time I worried about dictating range and keeping up my transversal was when doing lvl 3 missions. Nowadays the only time my Paladin moves is when moving to the next gate... agree, tbh i will try to make fraps while not moving at all so i get even the full DPS from NPC, the all point i try to prove is "kill the DPS first" = no DPS no death :)
Khin'charin Amarr Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.03.04 16:41:00 - [47] Originally by: Tian Nu ok there you go : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDP9jJJFNJg I think you failed at youtube? _________________________________ More blood for the blood god. Eternal darkness to the infidels.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.04 16:47:00 - [48] Originally by: Tian Nu ok there you go : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDP9jJJFNJg that how i run every single mision, the trd room is uploading. sry for the video qualyty is the first time i make them. This is done on mine alt whith 7 mill SP and horibol cruser misiles skills (lvl 3) but the shild skills are all to lvl 5 that why the tank is good. No rat specific hardeners (one EM, one ter two inv one shild amp and med shild booster (make the cap stable). Sadly i did the Pirate Invasion but the movie anded 39 gb so i can't upload but i promess to upload something that actualy give you huge DPS just to prove you that you never need to kill frigs. Last think this is done in CNR ofc there is advantage to shoot things as they are far. This video has been removed because it is too long. Regular YouTube videos must be 10 minutes or less. make sure to at least speed it up 2x, and/or blitz harder next time plz! and since it is just a mission you could probably get away with lowering the fps.
Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.03.04 17:27:00 - [49] Originally by: Tian Nu ok there you go : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDP9jJJFNJg that how i run every single mision, the trd room is uploading. sry for the video qualyty is the first time i make them. This is done on mine alt whith 7 mill SP and horibol cruser misiles skills (lvl 3) but the shild skills are all to lvl 5 that why the tank is good. No rat specific hardeners (one EM, one ter two inv one shild amp and med shild booster (make the cap stable). Sadly i did the Pirate Invasion but the movie anded 39 gb so i can't upload but i promess to upload something that actualy give you huge DPS just to prove you that you never need to kill frigs. Last think this is done in CNR ofc there is advantage to shoot things as they are far. This video has been removed because it is too long. Regular YouTube videos must be 10 minutes or less. Even PI should not take more than 10 minutes. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Tian Nu Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.03.04 17:29:00 - [50] Originally by: Khin'charin Originally by: Tian Nu ok there you go : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDP9jJJFNJg I think you failed at youtube? definetly ! first time i tried to upload something damn noob am
Tian Nu Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.03.04 18:00:00 - [51] If you donÆt mind i can use some helpà how this guy make the movie go fast like this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yi_qq9bnsQ&feature=related can I do that whith fraps and virtualdub ? if so pls tell me :) or link some tutorial am total noob at this.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.04 18:40:00 - [52] Originally by: Tian Nu If you donÆt mind i can use some helpà how this guy make the movie go fast like this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yi_qq9bnsQ&feature=related can I do that whith fraps and virtualdub ? if so pls tell me :) or link some tutorial am total noob at this. try this thread: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1107781 a bunch of video resources there. I haven't done any video editing, but it seems possible to do in windows movie maker, and the adobe programs. and apparently macs "just work" so there is probably a program somewhere that can do what you need. I dunno about open software.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.04 18:47:00 - [53] in the virtualdub features page it says: "Adjust frame rate, decimate frames, and 3:2 pulldown removal." but I'm not sure if that means video frame rate or playback frame rate.
Tian Nu Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.03.04 18:51:00 - [54] ty Chainsaw am going to read that tuto and hope will make something ppl can actualy see on mine next ataempt xD
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2010.03.04 19:21:00 - [55] IMO all Level 4 missions should be the same or greater difficulty than the Angel Extravaganza bonus room (And no I don't care about your epeen if you think the bonus room is "super easy") Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
Mara Abraham Minmatar	Posted - 2010.03.04 21:22:00 - [56] Greetings: Actually, I think the A.E. bonus room is extremely hard. Granted, I tried it several times in a Drake; and each time barely got out (tanked specific to angel, improved passive and active shield tank certificates)... I could not hit the towers (heavy missile range limited to about 54 km), and barely got the frigates off me. And I did try multiple times (dock to regen shields fast then back). Thank you.
Ashira Twilight	Posted - 2010.03.04 21:57:00 - [57] Originally by: Caldyra Pirate Invasion 4 - Sansha I do have drone 5 and interface 3. I use a mix of light, medium and heavy to reach 75bwidth using 5 drones. i could probably have killed the drones but the damage being dealt was too high, too quick all the damage was EM, in caldari space. I dont mind having HARD missions. But the leap between "easy" as you would call and "ridiculous" is too high. There are some missions i would label as HARD and I had FUN making them. Two hard-to-hit ewar tier 2 frigs are a bit overkill to me! No wonder you can't kill the elite frigates. Use 5x Hobgoblin II next time around. You had two heavy drones slowboating way behind shooting and hitting nothing, two medium drones barely keeping up, and one single light drone actually doing damage. DPS is nothing if it isn't being applied.
Tanthius Vanter Gallente Vanter Ventures	Posted - 2010.03.04 22:46:00 - [58] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 04/03/2010 16:22:13 Originally by: Khin'charin Not being able to dictate range gets you killed. Not being able to keep transversal up against heavy hitters, gets you killed. Last time I worried about dictating range and keeping up my transversal was when doing lvl 3 missions. Nowadays the only time my Paladin moves is when moving to the next gate... Same for me and my Domi, but not going to be quite the same for a new player just starting level 4's. To anyone having trouble: If your tank is going down, get mobile, either by orbiting or aligning to a celestial and cranking up the engines (this has the added benefit of letting you warp out instantly).
Brechan Skene	Posted - 2010.03.04 22:47:00 - [59] Originally by: Caldyra This is clearly a rage post because I lost my ship to a Lvl4 mission. One mission you get 3M in rewards (and it's supposed to be hard) and the ships just come nicely in turns, noone scrams you, nothing is wrong. Then the next you get a mission for barely 1M and as you warp in you get 13 BS 5 BC shooting at you with TWO elite frigates scramming you. What's wrong with the designers? I don't care if you either make them ALL hard or ALL easy. Just keep some consistency and LEARN TO MAKE ENCOUNTERS FUN. phew I feel better. Ps: I use eve-survival but the elite scrammers just wouldnt go down, with drones or without What type of ship are you using? What was its setup? What was your exact Drone make up? I know you had a mixture of light, medium and heavy drones. Brechan
Lai Nat	Posted - 2010.03.05 01:49:00 - [60] Originally by: Caldyra I do have drone 5 and interface 3. I use a mix of light, medium and heavy to reach 75bwidth using 5 drones. i could probably have killed the drones but the damage being dealt was too high, too quick all the damage was EM, in caldari space. That's what got you killed, really. You weren't tanked enough for the mission, and most of the drones you fielded couldn't track the elite frigates. Don't worry about pushing out 75 bandwidth. Just carry 5 lights and 5 mediums. Launch the lights to kill the frigates, and use the mediums to help out your dps on the bigger ships. Other than that, fit to tank the mission. Depending on which ship you were flying... makes a big difference.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.05 05:16:00 - [61] Originally by: Sader Rykane IMO all Level 4 missions should be the same or greater difficulty than the Angel Extravaganza bonus room (And no I don't care about your epeen if you think the bonus room is "super easy") laughably easy with 2 accounts tbh. a few harder missions with better rewards would be nice
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.03.05 05:28:00 - [62] AE4 bonus room is only hard if you haven't figured out to shoot the cruise missile batteries first, or if you haven't got a very good tank. Chainsaw Plankton's claim - that AE4 is "laughably easy" with two pilots - pretty much applies to all missions. Send one in to tank, the other to gank, and suddenly the missions are (mostly) walks in the park. [Aussie players: join channels ANZAC or AUSSIES]
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.03.05 09:02:00 - [63] Quote: Greetings: Actually, I think the A.E. bonus room is extremely hard. Granted, I tried it several times in a Drake; and each time barely got out (tanked specific to angel, improved passive and active shield tank certificates)... I could not hit the towers (heavy missile range limited to about 54 km), and barely got the frigates off me. And I did try multiple times (dock to regen shields fast then back). Thank you. AE bonus room would be made to be a time sink, "suggesting" you to go back home, refit with some thermal and EM (iirc), yawn-fly again thru the gates (CCP enabled MWD in AE though, guess why...). Then, in theory, you could choose to pop the launchers but it's timed so that by the time you are done, the frigs are almost on you and the heavy hitters are closing. But as most in EvE goes, you can also do other solutions. IE I CBA to fly back and refit. I just slam the AB and kite the NPCs. I don't even bother with killing the launchers, they get out of range after a while. If you want to loot, bookmark at warp in, turn in mission, warp directly to wrecks, launchers are gone, despawned with the mission rooms and the tedious warping around. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Bomberlocks Minmatar Star Bombers	Posted - 2010.03.05 12:03:00 - [64] There advice being posted here (kills frigates first or last etc) is confusing. There are many different types of missions and player skill has a big influence as well. - Player skills: A younger player, with less sp and isk, should always make sure he can warp out of a mission if it gets too hot. This means killing the scramming/disrupting frigs first. Do this with the mission specific drones (but don't use Amarr drones as they have a very low damage modifier). Older player with better damage and tanking skills can often afford to just sit there, aggro the whole room in a mission and shoot away and kill the drones last. - Killing order/managing aggression to minimize dps: The way you should kill the npcs depends very much on the mission. In some missions, such as Pirate Invasion, you can easily manage the aggression IF you are not aggroed by the whole room. The warp in point in this mission is very sensitive and although you mostly can aggro individual groups, it does happen that you get aggroed by almost all on warp in. Happened to me last night. In cases like this, it is imperative that a younger/lower skilled player kill the drones first. - Managing aggro by only getting npcs to attack you in groups is a big part of missions. The missions The Assault (serpentis) and Smash the Suppliers (amarr) often agrro the whole room and these two missions do enormous damage which is not survivable by a newer player. They can, however, both be kited, in the serpentis case, of course, bringing a sensor booster along will help tremendously against the dampening. Apart from that, the killing order should be based on the eve-survival guides. Count the number of ships who damage at range and see if they are outnumbered by ships that do damage in close. In some missions, you can minimize damage by kiting the NPCs, especially if you are flying a Raven, but in others, like missions against Mordus, they do damage at long range, and then you should be killing the ones who do the most dps first. If there are 20 BCs doing 1000 raw dps and 10 BSs doing 1000 raw dps, you will be better killing of the BCs first as they die faster. In other cases the BS dps outnumbers the BC dps by quite a margin and you should kill those first. - The major part of mission planning of course, is to fit your resistances and damage types according to the mission, if you can. Amarr have big difficulty earlier on with Angel missions as they tank EM/Therm pretty well and Amarr can only use these types. In cases like this, fit a good tank, kills the tackling frigs first and be prepared to warp out if needs be. - Ship types: Once you get enough sp and isk to fly a T2 or faction BS, such as a Golem, CNR, Vargur, Machariel etc, you should not be having any problems with missions any more, and can then simply concentrate on isk/hour efficiency.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2010.03.05 12:28:00 - [65] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Sader Rykane IMO all Level 4 missions should be the same or greater difficulty than the Angel Extravaganza bonus room (And no I don't care about your epeen if you think the bonus room is "super easy") laughably easy with 2 accounts tbh. a few harder missions with better rewards would be nice What a silly comment. What mission isn't easy with two people running it? I've attempted to solo the Angel Bonus room 3 times and have only managed to do it once in my Paladin. I'm pretty sure the time I managed to solo it was the time the room spawned with less thermal damage than normal since I usually just warp in with a kin/explosive tank and am too lazy to get a thermal hardener. Now I'm almost certain that if I stopped going in without tanking for thermal I'd have no trouble with the room at all. But then again, it's a lot more fun to have that "race against time" feeling when my tank is breaking as I'm racing to reduce the dps before they beat the crap out of me. Basically the difficulty of the mission is generally 100% in the hands of the pilot. Since I don't always go in properly tanked for the bonus room its harder. Tbh maybe that's it, missions should occasionally sprinkle a random damage type at you to keep you on your toes. Oh and allow NPC's to target switch for Christ sake. Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
Tian Nu Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.03.05 15:32:00 - [66] don't worry guys i did not forget i will make the damn movies just the agent (must be the CCP plot) won't give me the pirate mission all day. PS I find the AE bonus room hard (in same way as enmy abound 5of5)the think is as some one mention is to figure out how to run it but first time is hard as hell.
Mara Abraham Minmatar	Posted - 2010.03.05 17:31:00 - [67] Greetings: "What mission isn't easy with two people running it?" Agreed. A requirement shouldn't be that one has to dual box to get through a mission area. Thank you.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.05 17:41:00 - [68] The only thing that makes the AE bonus room hard is the fact that people insist on doing it in battleships or larger-sig-radius-than-God battlecruisers… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2010.03.05 18:36:00 - [69] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton laughably easy with 2 accounts tbh. a few harder missions with better rewards would be nice Come on, Chainsaw...what you just described are lvl5 missions.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.05 19:05:00 - [70] Originally by: Mara Rinn AE4 bonus room is only hard if you haven't figured out to shoot the cruise missile batteries first, or if you haven't got a very good tank. Chainsaw Plankton's claim - that AE4 is "laughably easy" with two pilots - pretty much applies to all missions. Send one in to tank, the other to gank, and suddenly the missions are (mostly) walks in the park. hell no, send in one to gank, and then another to gank. the whole "logistics battleship" is just a waste of a ship. and hell, most missions are laughably easy with 1 pilot.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.05 19:13:00 - [71] Originally by: Sader Rykane Oh and allow NPC's to target switch for Christ sake. yes let npcs target switch, that just makes the tanking easier.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.05 19:20:00 - [72] Originally by: Tippia The only thing that makes the AE bonus room hard is the fact that people insist on doing it in battleships or larger-sig-radius-than-God battlecruisersà you tempt me to try and afk ishtar it. will do! awesome kin/term/ex resists ftw! (I even have one in the journal!)
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.05 19:23:00 - [73] Originally by: Kzintee Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton laughably easy with 2 accounts tbh. a few harder missions with better rewards would be nice Come on, Chainsaw...what you just described are lvl5 missions. maybe. now if only level 5s weren't full of neut towers. how lame, passive tank or else! (btw I have a command ship 5 nighthawk pilot, so I'd like it if you didn't call me biased on that one) and dear ccp put a level 5 agent in ihakana, I get bored (to the point I don't even log on chainsaw most of the time) sometimes
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.05 19:40:00 - [74] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Tippia The only thing that makes the AE bonus room hard is the fact that people insist on doing it in battleships or larger-sig-radius-than-God battlecruisers… you tempt me to try and afk ishtar it. will do! awesome kin/term/ex resists ftw! (I even have one in the journal!) I do, I do… That said, it's even possible in an armour-tanked BC. A large part of the problem with that room is the sentries and the cruise spam – a low(ish) sig radius and an AB solves that problem quite neatly, even at BC sizes. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.05 23:29:00 - [75] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Tippia The only thing that makes the AE bonus room hard is the fact that people insist on doing it in battleships or larger-sig-radius-than-God battlecruisersà you tempt me to try and afk ishtar it. will do! awesome kin/term/ex resists ftw! (I even have one in the journal!) I do, I doà That said, it's even possible in an armour-tanked BC. A large part of the problem with that room is the sentries and the cruise spam û a low(ish) sig radius and an AB solves that problem quite neatly, even at BC sizes. I tried it with an afterburner damnation one day, that was awesome, 2x eanm, 1x kin, 1x ex and 2 mar. sat around 99% armor. had a raven variant doing dps though.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.05 23:56:00 - [76] Originally by: Bomberlocks stuff one hell of a post, wanted to get to it earlier but didn't have the time. on frigs: in a turret ship if a frig spawns at range I like to take it out first just press an f button (ungrouped guns of course, although on say a t1 bs maybe do 4 groups of 2 guns each, guess it will depend on your skills) and 1 frig down. if they start too close don't worry about it and let the drones take care of it. with a missile boat don't even bother with the frigs, just let the drones deal with them. although might be worth targeting a few just to keep the drones on the elite frigs first rather than the random other junk frigs. If you have lowskills chances are your missiles won't really even help take down frigs. mission specific dtty much fine for every mission I've done. although with the new fitting screen it is much easier to swap drones out. On Killing order: it very much depends on player skills and the mission. I've always been a fan of taking out the BCs first as they go down super easy. usually battleships next and launch drones as soon as you start getting aggro to get them to start killing frigs. if they go for a battleship first telling them to attack the target you are shooting will usually "reset" them and they will start working on frigs. on pirate invasion I like to warp in, kill the first group (the ones 20-30km below you), then aggro everything else. but I have the killspeed to make a ~50km wreck bubble. when I was newer I'd kill the closest group then kill the ones that had aggro on me, and then kill the two groups ~50km to the left. the one group that spawns infront of you sometimes aggros sometimes doesn't but I like to aggro them as soon as I can to try and avoid drone aggro. also you can start moving up and right as soon as you land, that should keep you a pretty good distance away from everything. planning: yes planning makes things much easier, it is also a big reason I think the cnr is better than then tengu, cnr gets a pure rof bonus, tengu gets a few bonuses but one of the bigger ones is a kinetic damage bonus. survivability is important for learning the missions, but well I feel if you made it through level 1, 2, and 3 missions you should have mostly learned this. almost every mission is the exact same thing with some minor detail changes. and heh an osprey or exequicor (spelled wrong but it is a gallente cruiser) are the 2 rr cruisers. remote reps give more hp/s than local reps and give a big boost to tank.
Traidor Disloyal Private Nuisance	Posted - 2010.03.06 01:41:00 - [77] Originally by: Caldyra Ps: I use eve-survival but the elite scrammers just wouldnt go down, with drones or without If you used that site and you still get blown to hell and back then your skills suck for that mission. Train some skills and stop crying on the forums. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Azcatl	Posted - 2010.03.06 02:51:00 - [78] I do lvl4s in a CNR. I NEVER target frigs, thats what my light drones are for ;P Once my Hobs are done with frigs out come the Hammerheads to help with Cruisers up. No one is saying your BS should target Frigs first but for crying out loud you should have drones on frigs from the start of a fight. Do the above and you will have no problems, first lesson I learnt doing lvl3s in a drake, haven't lost a ship to a mission since then
Caleidascope	Posted - 2010.03.06 05:00:00 - [79] I lost two Ravens and one Typhoon in L4. Quit whining.
Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.03.06 17:24:00 - [80] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton on pirate invasion I like to warp in, kill the first group (the ones 20-30km below you), then aggro everything else. but I have the killspeed to make a ~50km wreck bubble. when I was newer I'd kill the closest group then kill the ones that had aggro on me, and then kill the two groups ~50km to the left. the one group that spawns infront of you sometimes aggros sometimes doesn't but I like to aggro them as soon as I can to try and avoid drone aggro. My 0.02isk on PI. I like to aggro the first spawn that pops up in front of you, killing the 2 BCs only. By the time I'm done with them (4 volleys) the bottom group is spawning and I target all 6. I set my lights on the 2 frigs and start pounding on the BSs. When the frigs are gone, I recall the lights and deploy the mediums and have them add dps to the 2BSs that are left in that group. By this time the initial spawn I aggroed is within 30-50km, and I simply kill the closest BS. The reason I draw that initial aggro is simply to get the ships closer to me by the time I kill them, making salvage/looting go faster. At this point the final group has spawned and is aggroing me as well. I target the closest cruiser and as soon as it is in range I set my medium drones on them and forget about em. Now its just a matter of killing the closest BS until all the aggroed ships are dead. When I'm getting near the end of all that aggro, there are the final 2 groups left. I target the closest cruiser and the closest BSs. I start off aggroing the farther group, as this aggros the closer group as well. After killing one BS from the far group, I go back to killing the closest BS to me. At this point the orca alt warps in and starts tractoring the large wrecks. into a lootball. I leave the mission when all BSs are gone. Frigs and cruisers that are left go back to their spawn point, leaving the orca alone. Even if they did attack the orca, it has a full set of T2 hammers and hobos so no worry. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Caldyra	Posted - 2010.03.06 17:31:00 - [81] Well yeah, there were 2 problems that I totally agree with: 1) I changed my drones to 5 light 5 medium. The frigs go down a lot easier. I still have to train for scout drones VI but I have like a week left on Cald Frig V 2) My skills are clearly not up to par. I'm like 2 months old, almost no skill to IV and nothing is Tier 2. Honestly saying that "I fly my tengu around frigates and enjoy a cup of tea while things blow up" is not good advice. So anyway I've also upped an alt and now he's flying a Domi with remote Reppers and heavies to "afk-rep". Missions have been going a lot easier, of course. Now my gank is a bit low, so i'm trying to get better on that field. Should my alt go for sentry drones, or Heavies II? Should i go for cruiser Missiles IV or train a better tank? I have lost more ships, I just had a lot of rage that day. I hadn't anything beyond the auto-aggro. I had 2 invuls on, because I'm still learning who does what kind of damage (i use kinetc for guristas all the time). Regarding my consistency claim, I've done A.E. (no bonus room) and Worlds Collide, and I've had less problems than Pirate Invasion. I've even done stop the thief. I don't know still why my tank failed so hard on Invasion (As i said, only used 2 invulns and an x-large repper which i can't keep stable of course) Cheers all!
Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.03.06 21:44:00 - [82] Edited by: Dacryphile on 06/03/2010 21:52:35 Originally by: Caldyra Missions have been going a lot easier, of course. Now my gank is a bit low, so i'm trying to get better on that field. Should my alt go for sentry drones, or Heavies II? Should i go for cruiser Missiles IV or train a better tank? Cheers all! If you can do a mission without needing to warp out, train up skills that will increase your dps. Skill the primary damage skill first (cruise missiles) and support second (rapid launch...). Get those to IV and then train up your tank skills to IV. Then go back to dps skills and start topping them off at V, and then do the same with tank/cap skills. If you still need to warp out, train tank skills up until you no longer need to. Then go back to dps skills. Quote: I have lost more ships, I just had a lot of rage that day. I hadn't anything beyond the auto-aggro. I had 2 invuls on, because I'm still learning who does what kind of damage (i use kinetc for guristas all the time). http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports Bookmarks that site in the in game browser and use it to preview each mission before you run it. It identifies triggers and aggro mechanics, what kind of damage to tank for and what kind of damage to deal. Invaluable for any mission runner. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.07 06:00:00 - [83] Originally by: Caldyra Well yeah, there were 2 problems that I totally agree with: 1) I changed my drones to 5 light 5 medium. The frigs go down a lot easier. I still have to train for scout drones VI but I have like a week left on Cald Frig V 2) My skills are clearly not up to par. I'm like 2 months old, almost no skill to IV and nothing is Tier 2. Honestly saying that "I fly my tengu around frigates and enjoy a cup of tea while things blow up" is not good advice. So anyway I've also upped an alt and now he's flying a Domi with remote Reppers and heavies to "afk-rep". Missions have been going a lot easier, of course. Now my gank is a bit low, so i'm trying to get better on that field. Should my alt go for sentry drones, or Heavies II? Should i go for cruiser Missiles IV or train a better tank? I have lost more ships, I just had a lot of rage that day. I hadn't anything beyond the auto-aggro. I had 2 invuls on, because I'm still learning who does what kind of damage (i use kinetc for guristas all the time). Regarding my consistency claim, I've done A.E. (no bonus room) and Worlds Collide, and I've had less problems than Pirate Invasion. I've even done stop the thief. I don't know still why my tank failed so hard on Invasion (As i said, only used 2 invulns and an x-large repper which i can't keep stable of course) Cheers all! if you have the domi to help go for damage skills! and sentrys for the domi, the damage instantly switches target rather than travel however far it is. and pirate invasion does a lot of em/therm damage once everything starts getting close. I used to have to warp out of that one pretty often.
Carniflex StarHunt Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.03.07 07:07:00 - [84] I have lost Raven with T2 XL booster, 3 rat specific hareners and cap injector to L4 mission with XL booster ticking full speed before cap was low enough to need injector. About 45 seconds or so. Buddy agro was it, you know the one where there is specifc ship in missions that get's you killed if you stick drones on it. Oh yes - I was scrammed also ofc then. Had 6 points on me alltogether and the trigger was the scramming frig to whom I sticked my drones. If you manage the agro wrong and trigger extra wave on you before previous one is dead then L4 missions can and will kill you. Even if you are uber tanked. Buddy agro is not mentioned in eve-survival usually - it's something a missionrunner has to learn on his own ;).
Mulligan Basti	Posted - 2010.03.07 10:01:00 - [85] Originally by: Flitz Farseeker On one of the first L4 missions I did, I wasn't paying enough attention and a couple of tackling frigs scrammed me just as my tank was failing. It wasn't pretty, but at least the ship was insured. Nowadays, even though I can handle most L4s with ease, I check eve survival first to make sure I have the right hardeners fitted and if there are any surprises I need to watch out for. Makes things a lot easier. Oh yeah, kill the frigs first! I just had a similar experience. My cap was down and my shield almost spent in my Raven as I was wheeling in drones to warp out. Then I noticed the scrams. After a bit of panic I got the drones out, and started killing the 2 frigs while hull tanking. I got what was left of the hull out and had to spend a while running reppers, but it was a fun little event. A damage control may not be the best module for a theoretic PvE fit, but it has saved my butt on a few occasions. Thats the fun part about L4s, they may seem easy for the most part, but sometimes the difficulty tend to sneak up on you.
JonShannow Caldari Regante	Posted - 2010.03.07 11:11:00 - [86] Originally by: Bomberlocks Edited by: Bomberlocks on 05/03/2010 12:08:19 There advice being posted here (kills frigates first or last etc) is confusing. There are many different types of missions and player skill has a big influence as well. - Player skills: A younger player, with less sp and isk, should always make sure he can warp out of a mission if it gets too hot. This means killing the scramming/disrupting frigs first. Do this with the mission specific drones (but don't use Amarr drones as they have a very low damage modifier). Older player with better damage and tanking skills can often afford to just sit there, aggro the whole room in a mission and shoot away and kill the drones last. - Killing order/managing aggression to minimize dps: The way you should kill the npcs depends very much on the mission. In some missions, such as Pirate Invasion, you can easily manage the aggression IF you are not aggroed by the whole room. The warp in point in this mission is very sensitive and although you mostly can aggro individual groups, it does happen that you get aggroed by almost all on warp in. Happened to me last night. In cases like this, it is imperative that a younger/lower skilled player kill the drones first. - Managing aggro by only getting npcs to attack you in groups is a big part of missions. The missions The Assault (serpentis) and Smash the Suppliers (amarr) often agrro the whole room and these two missions do enormous damage which is not survivable by a newer player. They can, however, both be kited, in the serpentis case, of course, bringing a sensor booster along will help tremendously against the dampening. Apart from that, the killing order should be based on the eve-survival guides. Count the number of ships who damage at range and see if they are outnumbered by ships that do damage in close. In some missions, you can minimize damage by kiting the NPCs, especially if you are flying a Raven, but in others, like missions against Mordus, they do damage at long range, and then you should be killing the ones who do the most dps first. If there are 20 BCs doing 1000 raw dps and 10 BSs doing 1000 raw dps, you will be better killing of the BCs first as they die faster. In other cases the BS dps outnumbers the BC dps by quite a margin and you should kill those first. - The major part of mission planning of course, is to fit your resistances and damage types according to the mission, if you can. Amarr have big difficulty earlier on with Angel missions as they tank EM/Therm pretty well and Amarr can only use these types. In cases like this, fit a good tank, kills the tackling frigs first and be prepared to warp out if needs be. - Ship types: Once you get enough sp and isk to fly a T2 or faction BS, such as a Golem, CNR, Vargur, Machariel etc, you should not be having any problems with missions any more, and can then simply concentrate on isk/hour efficiency. Before then, if you are flying a ship that is not very good at missioing, such as a Typhoon, be careful. - Tricks: You should also think creatively if possible. For instance, you can train an alt on a trial account to fly a cruiser with remote repper and add something to your tank if you need it. fking well said that man
Khin'charin Amarr Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.03.08 10:13:00 - [87] Originally by: Caldyra So anyway I've also upped an alt and now he's flying a Domi with remote Reppers and heavies to "afk-rep". Now my gank is a bit low, so i'm trying to get better on that field. Should my alt go for sentry drones, or Heavies II? Should i go for cruiser Missiles IV or train a better tank? If you would have your domi to pull aggro and tank the spawns, you could fit your raven for max gank and just a little tank in case of stray DPS. All you need on the domi is a civilian type gun for pulling aggro, they get indef ammo and aggroes anything withit target range. Sentry drones are better than Heavies in this area. At least thats my opinion. Cruise missiles kills NPC, tanking doesnt. Go for Cruise Missile training. my 2 isk. _________________________________ More blood for the blood god. Eternal darkness to the infidels.
Tian Nu Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.03.11 22:22:00 - [88] Edited by: Tian Nu on 11/03/2010 22:24:59 Edited by: Tian Nu on 11/03/2010 22:23:31 Finaly i got the mission (wtf once in 3 days) big ty go to Chainsaw for this link http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1107781 helped total noob to make the first movie ever :) Ship used CNR (what else) low SP caracter (less that 8 mill, lvl 3 cruse misiles ) the point was just to prove that noob can do these if done the right way (that the way i run them any way) first kill crusers and then mix BS, drones go on frigs. Hope you like it the quality is good (i hope is good on PC) is actualy uploading so as each part upload i will post link. Oh and pls don't run it this way (am confident in mine tank) but you don't need to full agro this mision do it as the eve survival guide tell you to ! Part 1 : Pirate Invasion 1 Part 2 : Pirate Invasion 2 Part 3 :null Part 4 :null Part 5 : null Part 6 : null Ty all for helping me making this :) It seem that youtube is processing the videos so give it litle time cos the quality should be nice.
Songbird	Posted - 2010.03.12 01:59:00 - [89] angel missions are inherently hard for armor tanks and pretty damn easy for shield ones due to different explosive base resists. AE bonus room has a lot of dps coming from the towers - a ton of it is thermal cruise missiles I think. As for frigates - most can be 1 shot - killed if they're still blinking yellow. That means that they have you targeted but still not in their attack range so they're burning for you and have no transversal(?) so in effect even a 450 rail can hit them. If you land more than 20-25 km from the frigates I'd advise taking a shot. Sure 5 drones would kill an npc frig but they take way too long. At the same time you can pop em with the main gun with 1 or 2 shots. As long as we're on the missions topic - I really like to see level 5 in high sec. Keep pve for pve-ers .
Carthus Sondale Gallente Power and Water	Posted - 2010.03.27 11:46:00 - [90] It's also worth mentioning that if you're flying around in a particularly expensive ship/fit with an active tank, killing the frigates first is the smartest thing you could possibly do in L4s. All it takes to lose your ship is one disconnect, and if you're sitting there plowing through BS and Cruisers and ignoring the little frigate with a point on you, you'll certainly wish you hadn't when you log back in.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.03.27 11:54:00 - [91] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 27/03/2010 11:56:34 Originally by: Songbird As for frigates - most can be 1 shot - killed if they're still blinking yellow. That means that they have you targeted but still not in their attack range so they're burning for you and have no transversal(?) so in effect even a 450 rail can hit them. If you land more than 20-25 km from the frigates I'd advise taking a shot. Sure 5 drones would kill an npc frig but they take way too long. At the same time you can pop em with the main gun with 1 or 2 shots. . Notices for Minmatar ships: the above does not necessarily apply. - Arty Maels: don't even try to shoot a frig at 25km, all you'll get is to pull it (if not aggressed yet). On the other side, arty mael is nice at 1 shotting non elite frigs at 55-70km. Elite frigs will usually not die (only few missions set them to stand still) as they are often programmed to run in circles and keep 300+ transversal. Even those that stand still, once hit will start moving and put up high transversal for an arty to track. - AC Maels: with enough mods, it's possible to 1 shot a frig at 25km but of the non elite type. The dangerous ones are usually elite and they will die but will take more shots. At this point it might be wiser to focus a cruiser / BC at 25km instead (which will die quicker than the elite frig at 25km) and kill the frig with small T2 drones. Finally, while hitting the above, don't forget to already point to a battleship, they WILL try and kite you and will get to 40km+ in no time while you kill the smaller fries. Also, using an AB to counter this is highly advisable. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Droppa MaPantz	Posted - 2010.03.27 18:16:00 - [92] I've done the Sansha one you lost a ship on, and AE4 in a t2 fitted drake, so I'm not feeling much sympathy, sorry. Fit mission-specific hardeners, and run a full flight of light and medium drones regardless of bandwidth if you're in a BS. Only lights chew up and spit out frigates your big guns can't hit. Let's repeat that, it's so important. ALWAYS FIELD A FLIGHT OF LIGHT DRONES TO KILL SCRAMBLING AND WEBBING NPC FRIGATES. Use eve-missions to find out what damage types to tank, and what damage types to deal out with both drones and guns (although with the drake kinetic damage bonus it's a wash to swap from kinetic for 95% of missions, just need to swap to break some elite BS tanks). It's not the game's fault, you should have learned in L1, L2, and L3 missions that light drones are best vs frigates.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.03.27 21:50:00 - [93] Originally by: Mara Rinn AE4 bonus room is only hard if you haven't figured out to shoot the cruise missile batteries first, or if you haven't got a very good tank. Chainsaw Plankton's claim - that AE4 is "laughably easy" with two pilots - pretty much applies to all missions. Send one in to tank, the other to gank, and suddenly the missions are (mostly) walks in the park. I'll have to say the only mission BS I've lost since i've had 2 half ass skilled accounts was to PvP. You can just ferry in cap boosters and tank about anything. As said read the mission reoports. "The assault" is hard as hell if you try it with no sensor boosters b/c there are 6 ships dampening you. You drop your AB for a sensor booster or bring an alt/friend for that 1st room and the mission is freaking PIE. Use eveinfo.com to find out EXACTLY what damage to tank. If you're really smart about it you'll run the numbers from eveinfo.com through EFT and it will tell you your tanking capabilities against each group of npc's. This is clearly a signature.
shaved chimp	Posted - 2010.03.27 22:37:00 - [94] Originally by: SurrenderMonkey Huh. I thought for sure this was going to be a rant about how missions are too easy and pay too well. Me too!! LOL
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.03.28 12:07:00 - [95] Quote: "The assault" is hard as hell if you try it with no sensor boosters b/c there are 6 ships I just pull and wait for the cruisers to come so close the damp stops working (killing 1-2 while they approach, they don't have it always up), then kill them with med drones. Same for the other "inactive" battleships to the left. This when I don't use 2 ships, as the mission (and others) become a 10 minutes deal if you pull with the long range ship and send in a brawler with AB in the middle of them. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Mesh Marillion Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.03.28 12:10:00 - [96] Killing tackling frigs is common sense for just everybody. You'll have a much larger margin of error that way and most ship setups will try to kill large and small targets at the same time anyway. If you're really looking for getting the best kind of protection for your ship, your priorities should be like that: 1. kill all BCs with your main guns, they will die fast yet contribute a great deal of dps. also they will approach faster than the BS. at the same time put your light drones on the elite frigs, removing scrams and webs as well as the other kind of ewar they might put on you because webs/painters indirectly reduce your tank while tracking dispruptor, sensor damps and ecm reduce your ability to kill stuff. 2. go for bs with your main guns, continue killing frigs with your light drones. swap to mediums as soon as alle frig and destroyer ship types are dead. 3. kill cruisers last with a combination of guns/missiles and drones. Unless you have a mission where you need to kill some elite cruisers first (blood raiders come in mind since their neuting is very dangerous if they get within 30 km) this is the way you probably will never loose a ship unless you mismanage triggers because you will be able to warp very early while having to do it very rarely since you are reducing the incoming dps quickly.
Dungheap Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.03.28 14:43:00 - [97] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Sader Rykane IMO all Level 4 missions should be the same or greater difficulty than the Angel Extravaganza bonus room (And no I don't care about your epeen if you think the bonus room is "super easy") laughably easy with 2 accounts tbh. a few harder missions with better rewards would be nice ccp made lvl 4's much easier. you mention ae bonus room, and it's a prime example. making lvl 4's new-player friendly is what caused so much of the forum noise calling for a nerf to them. here is the current guide most use : http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=AngelExtragavanza4 and here it is from a couple years back; please to note the difference in bonus room: http://eveinfo.com/missions/264/eve-online-angel-extravaganza that's right, 16 web/scram frigs and the whole room used to aggro you...
Khin'charin Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.03.28 15:10:00 - [98] Originally by: Dungheap here is the current guide most use : http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=AngelExtragavanza4 and here it is from a couple years back; please to note the difference in bonus room: http://eveinfo.com/missions/264/eve-online-angel-extravaganza that's right, 16 web/scram frigs and the whole room used to aggro you... Not to mention they all used MWD and came at you at 2k m/s, webbing you blind and shooting you silly with 1600+ DPS 20 sec after warpin... Those were the days. Nowadays, you're not even scared going in with half a tank. _________________________________ More blood for the blood god. Eternal darkness to the infidels.
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.03.28 15:17:00 - [99] Edited by: Zartrader on 28/03/2010 15:22:49 Stop reading mission guides and learn how to play the game properly. Slavishly following what others say means you do not observe and learn NPC behaviour, which is very basic AI and consistent in all missions. How did you not learn all this by doing level 1 to 3 missions I can only guess at. Level 4's are too easy as it is which is why many players prefer Sleepers. Try and learn by your mistakes rather than blame others, it reminds me of another game I used to play.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.03.28 16:11:00 - [100] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 27/03/2010 11:56:34 Originally by: Songbird As for frigates - most can be 1 shot - killed if they're still blinking yellow. That means that they have you targeted but still not in their attack range so they're burning for you and have no transversal(?) so in effect even a 450 rail can hit them. If you land more than 20-25 km from the frigates I'd advise taking a shot. Sure 5 drones would kill an npc frig but they take way too long. At the same time you can pop em with the main gun with 1 or 2 shots. . Notices for Minmatar ships: the above does not necessarily apply. Works a treat for Nightmares though I kill off the frigates first wherever possible, while the range is long and transversal is low - even with IN Standard L at 100Km, the alpha is enough to 1-shot almost any frig with a group of 2 tachs; if the first shot doesn't kill it, then it dies 6 seconds later. Then the cruisers, BCs and finally the BS.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.03.28 16:32:00 - [101] Quote: Stop reading mission guides and learn how to play the game properly. Drop out of college and learn trig on your own. This is clearly a signature.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.03.28 17:17:00 - [102] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 28/03/2010 17:20:45 Quote: ccp made lvl 4's much easier. you mention ae bonus room, and it's a prime example. making lvl 4's new-player friendly is what caused so much of the forum noise calling for a nerf to them. The nerf "noise" has 2 reasons: - Making the missions easier did not correspond with a reward decrease. Edit: for the slowest thinkers: this maps directly in botta-bility for RMT, which happened AND is visibly happening NOW despite Holy Rage. - Passing from 30k players to 30k players + 270k farmers requires that either the 30k players spend all of the resources gathered by the other 270k farmers OR the economy is bound to crash. Guess what, they are to change the insurance mechanism exactly because the in-out flow of the minerals went nuts. Edit for the slowest thinkers: see minerals inflation. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.03.28 17:46:00 - [103] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 28/03/2010 17:20:45 Quote: ccp made lvl 4's much easier. you mention ae bonus room, and it's a prime example. making lvl 4's new-player friendly is what caused so much of the forum noise calling for a nerf to them. The nerf "noise" has 2 reasons: - Making the missions easier did not correspond with a reward decrease. Edit: for the slowest thinkers: this maps directly in botta-bility for RMT, which happened AND is visibly happening NOW despite Holy Rage. - Passing from 30k players to 30k players + 270k farmers requires that either the 30k players spend all of the resources gathered by the other 270k farmers OR the economy is bound to crash. Guess what, they are to change the insurance mechanism exactly because the in-out flow of the minerals went nuts. Edit for the slowest thinkers: see minerals inflation. thanks for the autologout CCP. You fail at forums on an unprecedented level. Still love you tho just sayin. Back to the thread now... Been playing since late 08 and cant figure out what all the fuss is. Trit was at 4ISK/per and PLEX cards were 12 mil a day. Playing now and PLEX is 10 a day and trit is 2 something. What are we trying to accomplish? I hear, which makes it hearsay, that at one point battleships were the GG endgame ****. It was hard to get one and the payout from having one made you "rich" Ok fastforward to now, BS is not endgame GG level 80 deathknight. Therefore its not supposed to take the same effort as obtaining a capship. Why are people hell bent on making it harder? This is clearly a signature.
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.03.28 17:58:00 - [104] Edited by: Zartrader on 28/03/2010 18:01:58 Originally by: Cipher Jones Quote: Stop reading mission guides and learn how to play the game properly. Drop out of college and learn trig on your own. If you think working our basic Mission AI is like Trig that's your call. People who rush to mission guides when they face any challenge never really learn anything. It's the same in EVE as all the other games I have played. EVE missions are highly generic and follow a few simple rules that even bots can use. The Op clearly did not learn even those basic rules. That's either because he followed guides without paying any attention or he bought his character. He then expects changes to suit him. Also some play a game for a challenge which is enjoyment for many of us. Earning ISK is boring if it's too easy and it does not get easier than L4 missions.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.03.28 18:36:00 - [105] Originally by: Zartrader Edited by: Zartrader on 28/03/2010 18:01:58 Originally by: Cipher Jones Quote: Stop reading mission guides and learn how to play the game properly. Drop out of college and learn trig on your own. If you think working our basic Mission AI is like Trig that's your call. People who rush to mission guides when they face any challenge never really learn anything. It's the same in EVE as all the other games I have played. EVE missions are highly generic and follow a few simple rules that even bots can use. The Op clearly did not learn even those basic rules. That's either because he followed guides without paying any attention or he bought his character. He then expects changes to suit him. Also some play a game for a challenge which is enjoyment for many of us. Earning ISK is boring if it's too easy and it does not get easier than L4 missions. your statements make no sense whatsoever. Ok, lets say we take your advice. We don't use a web page to do the mission. we do the mission once and do poorly. maybe lose a ship, maybe just have to warp out a few times. we don't know whats going to be in the until we try it. Ok now we do the mission a second time using what we learned from the first run. Now its "Boring" according to your post. Why bother then? I got 99% in trig in college. IMHO it was much easier than running level 4 misisons without a guide. All you have to do to is remember oscar has a hairy old ass or that old hippies are happy on acid. To say I never really learned anything from reading mission reports is kind of insulting, and 100% inaccurate. This is clearly a signature.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.03.28 18:38:00 - [106] Quote: Ok fastforward to now, BS is not endgame GG level 80 deathknight. Therefore its not supposed to take the same effort as obtaining a capship. EvE has no "gear reset at next 10 levels" thus EvE must rely on its own economy to work forever. In fact CCP are not putting T3 battleships, did not make T2 "conventional warfare" battleships, did not make T2 dreads etc exactly because it'd start the same escalation that happens in the level based MMOs, but EvE could not outgrow the inflation of "epics" by forcing a gear reset. EvE would just die. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.03.28 18:45:00 - [107] Edited by: Cipher Jones on 28/03/2010 18:45:59 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: Ok fastforward to now, BS is not endgame GG level 80 deathknight. Therefore its not supposed to take the same effort as obtaining a capship. EvE has no "gear reset at next 10 levels" thus EvE must rely on its own economy to work forever. In fact CCP are not putting T3 battleships, did not make T2 "conventional warfare" battleships, did not make T2 dreads etc exactly because it'd start the same escalation that happens in the level based MMOs, but EvE could not outgrow the inflation of "epics" by forcing a gear reset. EvE would just die. agreed, signed, sealed, and delivered. Thats why I cant isolate the problem. When you first get the skill to fly a BS, you cant do a level 4 on your own. By the time you are done (skilling) you can crush them. Theres a huge range there. This is clearly a signature.
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.03.28 18:47:00 - [108] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Zartrader Edited by: Zartrader on 28/03/2010 18:01:58 Originally by: Cipher Jones Quote: Stop reading mission guides and learn how to play the game properly. Drop out of college and learn trig on your own. If you think working our basic Mission AI is like Trig that's your call. People who rush to mission guides when they face any challenge never really learn anything. It's the same in EVE as all the other games I have played. EVE missions are highly generic and follow a few simple rules that even bots can use. The Op clearly did not learn even those basic rules. That's either because he followed guides without paying any attention or he bought his character. He then expects changes to suit him. Also some play a game for a challenge which is enjoyment for many of us. Earning ISK is boring if it's too easy and it does not get easier than L4 missions. your statements make no sense whatsoever. Ok, lets say we take your advice. We don't use a web page to do the mission. we do the mission once and do poorly. maybe lose a ship, maybe just have to warp out a few times. we don't know whats going to be in the until we try it. Ok now we do the mission a second time using what we learned from the first run. Now its "Boring" according to your post. Why bother then? I got 99% in trig in college. IMHO it was much easier than running level 4 misisons without a guide. All you have to do to is remember oscar has a hairy old ass or that old hippies are happy on acid. To say I never really learned anything from reading mission reports is kind of insulting, and 100% inaccurate. Sorry, why do you think the first attempt will do poorly? You do not have to know anything at all about a mission to do fine in it, they are generic and easy to grasp immediately by anyone who did level 1 to 3 (which the Op clearly did not if he got caught by scramblers that easily). And who do you think writes these guides, who taught them? Its endemic in online games to read 'Boss tactics' and it's one of the key reasons why they had to be dumbed down. Because people are not encouraged to work it out for themselves and they never grasp simple game mechanics or able to deal with unusual situations as a result. If you want to read guides I do not care at all, just don't pretend that missions need them or are remotely difficult. Why your comparing a game to college study is beyond me, it's a false analogy.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.03.28 19:14:00 - [109] Quote: Sorry, why do you think the first attempt will do poorly? You do not have to know anything at all about a mission to do fine in it, they are generic and easy to grasp immediately by anyone who did level 1 to 3 (which the Op clearly did not if he got caught by scramblers that easily). And who do you think writes these guides, who taught them? Its endemic in online games to read 'Boss tactics' and it's one of the key reasons why they had to be dumbed down. Because people are not encouraged to work it out for themselves and they never grasp simple game mechanics or able to deal with unusual situations as a result. Because you cant know what's in the mission until you try it or read about it. I didn't say it was impossible but denial aint just a river. There arent scrambles in level 1-3 missions. you cannot possibly equate l1-3 missions to l4 and say the OP should have known there are scramblers in l4 missions based on running level 1-3. This is clearly a signature.
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2010.03.28 19:20:00 - [110] AE4 bonus; send a frig in to tank it, shoot at will in whatever you're shooting in. Managed it in a single MAR RF stabber once, not recommended though. PI is a load of fun, altho having just done the Sansha one for the first time that was a bit hair-raising in an Abaddon which I'm really not used to flying. At least there's no TD in it... Angels one is just waltz in in a Mach & the room explodes, I've never had problems with that in a shield tank boat. Having nearly lost a Domi there though, recommend you turn 90 degrees right after entry & kill the group underneath you first off, then you've got range on the other group coming after you. While we're talking about wierd difficulty, I put a Raven in armour in Gurista Intercept the Saboteurs the other day, broke three hardeners and a heated T2 XL sb; is this normally this ridiculous? the other faction versions are snoringly easy. Was so ridiculous I'm wondering if the hardeners really turned on.
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2010.03.28 20:08:00 - [111] Originally by: Cipher Jones Quote: Stop reading mission guides and learn how to play the game properly. Drop out of college and learn trig on your own. trig is grade 10 math or it was when i went through high school.
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.03.28 23:06:00 - [112] Edited by: Zartrader on 28/03/2010 23:09:57 Originally by: Cipher Jones Quote: Sorry, why do you think the first attempt will do poorly? You do not have to know anything at all about a mission to do fine in it, they are generic and easy to grasp immediately by anyone who did level 1 to 3 (which the Op clearly did not if he got caught by scramblers that easily). And who do you think writes these guides, who taught them? Its endemic in online games to read 'Boss tactics' and it's one of the key reasons why they had to be dumbed down. Because people are not encouraged to work it out for themselves and they never grasp simple game mechanics or able to deal with unusual situations as a result. Because you cant know what's in the mission until you try it or read about it. I didn't say it was impossible but denial aint just a river. There arent scrambles in level 1-3 missions. you cannot possibly equate l1-3 missions to l4 and say the OP should have known there are scramblers in l4 missions based on running level 1-3. I'm denying what? I'm saying you do not need to know a mission beforehand to do it easily. And even if you did, so what? Why is everyone so keen to make this game so easy? Also something I forgot, the Level 4 missions are the same as the level 3 with a few easy to spot twists if your lucky. There are scramblers in level 1-3 missions.
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.03.28 23:14:00 - [113] Edited by: Zartrader on 28/03/2010 23:20:51 Originally by: Von Kapiche AE4 bonus; send a frig in to tank it, shoot at will in whatever you're shooting in. Managed it in a single MAR RF stabber once, not recommended though. PI is a load of fun, altho having just done the Sansha one for the first time that was a bit hair-raising in an Abaddon which I'm really not used to flying. At least there's no TD in it... Angels one is just waltz in in a Mach & the room explodes, I've never had problems with that in a shield tank boat. Having nearly lost a Domi there though, recommend you turn 90 degrees right after entry & kill the group underneath you first off, then you've got range on the other group coming after you. While we're talking about wierd difficulty, I put a Raven in armour in Gurista Intercept the Saboteurs the other day, broke three hardeners and a heated T2 XL sb; is this normally this ridiculous? the other faction versions are snoringly easy. Was so ridiculous I'm wondering if the hardeners really turned on. I did several COSMOS missions the other day and found them good fun as I usually had to omni tank and scramblers were common. Having to fly through a well occupied low sec system added to the fun. Really, we need variety in any game. Having bland difficulty levels would bore many of us to tears and that's what we effectively have now, from very easy to easy. The only real consideration is how long it takes. I'd be happy if we had good rewards but the price of that would be missions where losing your ship was a genuine possibility if you screw up. Something like level 5's but just soloable. Some epic Arc missions are like this and I wish we had more.
Dimitri Zalvadov	Posted - 2010.03.28 23:18:00 - [114] Originally by: Zartrader I did several COSMOS missions the other day and found them good fun as I usually had to omni tank and scramblers were common. Having to fly through a well occupied low sec system added to the fun. Really, we need variety in any game. Having bland difficulty levels would bore many of us to tears. It might suit grinders but I play to play, not grind. We have this in another game I wont mention, players are mindless drones doing the same thing day in and day out with no interest in game mechanics or personal skill advancement at all. Would love to see you take a fresh pilot into a level 4 worlds collide with no information whatsoever and ask them if it was easy. How about Enemies Abound 5/5 that is another mission where you don't need to have a clue as to what to expect right?
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.03.28 23:24:00 - [115] Edited by: Zartrader on 28/03/2010 23:25:50 Originally by: Dimitri Zalvadov Originally by: Zartrader I did several COSMOS missions the other day and found them good fun as I usually had to omni tank and scramblers were common. Having to fly through a well occupied low sec system added to the fun. Really, we need variety in any game. Having bland difficulty levels would bore many of us to tears. It might suit grinders but I play to play, not grind. We have this in another game I wont mention, players are mindless drones doing the same thing day in and day out with no interest in game mechanics or personal skill advancement at all. Would love to see you take a fresh pilot into a level 4 worlds collide with no information whatsoever and ask them if it was easy. How about Enemies Abound 5/5 that is another mission where you don't need to have a clue as to what to expect right? Why would worlds collide be hard? It has no special issues with it. I always ran through it until level 4. 1. Wait until NPC's aggress (same for all missions when learning them) 2. That's it. Also I'm not mixing easy with time it takes or need to warp out to repair. That's a function of the ship you have and your trained skills. It's not hard in itself.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.03.29 07:11:00 - [116] Quote: When you first get the skill to fly a BS, you cant do a level 4 on your own. By the time you are done (skilling) you can crush them. TBH I did most L4s in a passive hurricane, it just takes a lot. L4 missions are targetted at high skill BC to low skill BS pilots, others like COSMOS and epic arcs would be truly aimed at high skills BS pilots. In fact now that I have 2 (soon 3) high skilled BS pilots they can really go in a L4 and pull everything and /care. Quote: Why would worlds collide be hard? It has no special issues with it. Unless of course someone is mad enough to target and attack randomly and launch drones on aggressive. There are exceptions, even if to counter them a bait frigate would be enough (ie warp in, shoot at something and see what happens, warp out). Some missions have special triggers that are not exactly trivial to figure out. IE shoot at one ship => pocket aggro, or special AoE (gardens, many learn it the direct way) or chains started by hitting 1 ship. Other: ships dealing damage that is not the "correct type" for the faction and that can't really learned due to the p1ss poor EvE combat logs (only missiles are easy to discern) or - the worst for me - spawns that can chain aggro other spawns (usually with scrammers) when hit. Example, in some missions you can land and be surrounded by launchers and sentries and web towers at < 20km and have auto-aggro from close range ships. This could easily lead to losing some test ships, once webbed their speed tank is not that good. Also, other missions would be "ruined" by trial testing. IE those that create timer spawns so that you will enter and start the sequence and then you cannot enter in a BS later on, else you would get easily overhelmed. Result: it's very possible to "do it all yourself" but it takes a trial and p1ss factor into it that many are not really willing to endure. Now, this is not just in EvE, many MMOs have external "quest list" sites that kinda spoil them. The great part of this is that who feels like doing by himself can just choose not to read those sites. Finally: you seem the kind of people who would love playing Istaria: a MMO where the documentation and sites are so few that when the NPC tells you to fetch him "this collar bone, it's somewhere in the southern side of the world" (world several times larger than WoW) you are really in for a nice trek. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Sina Oraen	Posted - 2010.03.29 09:40:00 - [117] I knew exactly what the Opener meant :) Well all the same discussion at page 2 or 3 .. fit this / try this. The Level 1 Missions are easy to handle - spawns are created with enough time to handle the stuff. Level 2 Mission : You've got a little bit more ships BUT they also spawns at a good time cycle. Level 3 Mission : First BOOM .. some of the NPC begins to leech energy - others spider - some uses a mix of frig and bs. Level 4 Mission : Up to the "Fun?" ... the BS are strong - protected by masses of smaller ships. First Need of Group - or wasting time for skilling to be ready for this stuff. Level 5 Mission : YOU'RE in need of grouping. - Well nothing against grouping and nothing against the Level of mission including the quality subset but at all the agents should give missions not from a pool you've got some really "killing" mission within. The Missions should be designed as a chain of Design handled via the level. The Level up to 4 should be // could be solved alone. Level 5 are most likely Explorations Sites and so you're about to group up OR playing a long time so you've got the ship fitting need. I see this at my GF playing Eve now. Well Level 1 Missions np - after some mission first encounter of some little fighting missions and also she's watching to her aggro management but got plenty of problems, because the mission runs to hard after some time. So the only way was to seek out a npc giving crap Level 1 Mission she was able to handle. The Design of the Mission should get a little spot and should be thought about to design them "in one line". The Key target for this design "You're able to handle a Level 4 Quality 0 Mission - you should be able to handle ALL Level 4 Quality 0 Missions"
Derelicht	Posted - 2010.03.29 13:39:00 - [118] Originally by: Tian Nu Now i know why ppl cry to nerf lvl 4Æs no one run them in the right way, i will make fraps of every single mision (the big DPS ones) and show you that you never need to kill frigats until last. As I stated before if you can lock 7 targets nothing prevent you to lock 5 crusers and 2 frigs and send drones to frigs (if you are scared) I donÆt know what lvl 4Æs you run but mine tank never get even 1% perma run, only on enmy abound I can get to 20/25% cos I let the darkanas hiting me until and. If you need to kill frigs then you SUCK ! Put 20 frigs on BS who cares if you clean the room from all crusers and BS where is the DPS ? what can kill you. By focusing on frigats you losing time, time that you can use to clear up the incoming damage. Am going to make few fraps so ppl can start running lvl 4ös in the right way. Will add links to this post; Sure is taking you time to post those links.

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