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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.03 21:16:00 -
[1]
People often cite this post:
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Posted - 2009.02.04 15:20:00 To give more precise data as the 40% was a figure I used as an overall average was 'of the top of my head' during the meeting taken from the data below.
This was the one month split for all items reprocessed measured mid-august to mid-september 2008.
|| Mineral || Ore% || Loot% || Drone Compounds% || ||-----------||------||-------||------------------|| || Tritanium || 46% || 43% || 11% || || Pyerite || 29% || 60% || 10% || || Mexallon || 30% || 59% || 11% || || Isogen || 21% || 56% || 23% || || Nocxium || 18% || 32% || 51% || || Zydrine || 43% || 18% || 40% || || Megacyte || 44% || 39% || 16% || || Morphite || 77% || 1% || 22% ||
* Ore is minerals from the asteroid ores * loot is modules, ships, charges, drones for example. * drone compounds are loot items from rogue drones
However, whatever conclusion you draw from those stats, be careful as it does not tell you much really such as how many people were mining or running missions. The number of people running missions is massive compared to number of miners and the source per person much lower overall however it is a large diffuse source. It is a similar story for anytime a player encounters the rogue drones.
The ongoing discussion we are having internally is really around the point of to what degree a specialist profession like mining should be adversely affected by another career path where this forms only one part of their total reward/income pool.
Nothing is happening on this front for Apocrypha but feel free to discuss this and I'll keep tabs on discussion as it is an interesting topic.
as a reason to change/remove meta 0 modules drop rate in missions (and some of them whant them removed from belt rats too).
If you look closely to the data you will notice that loot include Morphite (so the loot table include T2 items). It include reprocessed ships and compression modules too.
So the data were heavily contaminated even then.
Now time as passed and we had Wormholes, Unholy rage, the Velspater buff and the 0.0 upgrades.
There are plenty of discussions in the Market forum and the Science and industry forum about the value of minerals and turning them to isk by self destructing ship that we have just produced and mission running and ratting are often indicated as the culprit of the low value of minerals.
It can be true or the problem can be another, so I vould like to see CCP give some up to date information.
Something like:
1) a table like the one above for a recent period, one cleared of spurious data as much as possible;
2) how much minerals are mined in high sec/low sec/0.0/WH or at least the different percentages if CCP feel that knowing the actual quantities could affect the markets.
3) some data about the number of ships self destructing to collect insurance.
I think all those data are needed if we want to help CCP analyze the problem and I really hope CCP has them as they need them to see what is happening in EVE.
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2010.03.03 21:21:00 -
[2]
supporting myself
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De'Veldrin
Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.03.03 21:28:00 -
[3]
Edited by: De''Veldrin on 03/03/2010 21:28:06 I would like to see this data as well. Basically I'd like to see how much of each mineral type is created from each activity as a percentage of the total of mineral production from all activities.
Edit for thumb --Vel
Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats. |
HarveyBirdman Esquire
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Posted - 2010.03.03 22:38:00 -
[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_information_act
-Harvey Birdman, Sunshine of Law!
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.03.03 23:42:00 -
[5]
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 03/03/2010 23:42:02 Now with Pyerite as only 30% from miners. No wonder the miners cant keep up.
Also insurance is broken also hired economist has no clue about eve economy. Also 20% of noxcium and isogen is from miners no wonder lo-sec ores are broken.
CCP WAKE UP !!!
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Addicted User
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Posted - 2010.03.04 01:24:00 -
[6]
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GIGAR
Domini Umbrus
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Posted - 2010.03.04 07:31:00 -
[7]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 03/03/2010 23:42:02 Now with Pyerite as only 30% from miners. No wonder the miners cant keep up.
Also insurance is broken also hired economist has no clue about eve economy. Also 20% of noxcium and isogen is from miners no wonder lo-sec ores are broken.
CCP WAKE UP !!!
Hi, I'm the Eve economist, lets decide not to impact the market, but we'll just add a crapload of extra supply! Yeah, that'll work! There's NO WAY that prices are going to drop from this... Making highend ores available in all 0.0's with sov upgrades does not impact mining in any way! Nope! I'm not saying the sov upgrades are bad (I think they're awesome), but CCP should get their arses kicked for continuing to say that "we don't affect economy", then continuing to increase supply :/ (we saw this with increase respawn of ores in highsec as well) --------------------------
Originally by: Akita T Actually, GIGAR is right.
Wtf?
Originally by: Akita T Well, at least sort of. A little bit. Conceptually speaking.
That's more like it. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.04 09:16:00 -
[8]
Venkul is correct: clear information on such a heavily discussed and important topic is vital.
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Bubbled
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Posted - 2010.03.04 10:37:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Bubbled on 04/03/2010 10:38:41 [request of information] Souces of minerals I always wondered what taste is the Tritanium Souce...
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.03.04 10:51:00 -
[10]
If only CCP would hire an economist that could easily whip up a chart like that and release it on the forums.
Instead of hiring an economist with zero experience in his field, CCP should have hired a player who read economics for dummies and had him make some charts. Would have been 10000x more useful. Supporting this to show how inept EyjoG is.
Originally by: Jim Raynor EVE needs danger, EVE needs risks, EVE needs combat, even piracy, without these things, the game stagnates to a trivial game centering around bloating your wallet with no purpose. |
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Asuri Kinnes
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.03.04 16:28:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 04/03/2010 16:28:29 I am also interested in the effect the various changes to the mineral supply are having on the in-game economy.
IMHO, miners should account for the majority of minerals in Eve. If that's not possible, it should still *not* be possible to build/insure/suicide ships for a profit. That's just silly no matter how you look at it.
Edited to show support. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Merle Hausen
Phoenix Propulsion Labs Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2010.03.04 17:27:00 -
[12]
This kind of information is extremely important to us industrialists. The sad fact is that only CCP has the ability to generate these numbers for us hurt as we don't have access to raw market data.
You know what, that would be awesome if CCP could give us a market data dump say every month with all the useful information, but I can see how that would probably be too much work and too much data to handle.
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Bunyip
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.03.04 19:07:00 -
[13]
While I support the request for information, there would need to be some major changes to the game before removing T1 Meta 0 loot were possible. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for this, but it can't happen in the game as it is right now without drastic consequences both on the market and on gameplay.
For one, you'd need to add a lot more manufacturing stations (somewhere like 3x the amount currently available). As another, you'd have to make mining more interesting and profitable, maybe by altering the composition of most of the asteroids in the game.
What I would recommend in this incarnation is to reduce the T1 Meta 0 drop chance by 10% a few months before the expansion that overhauls all the aspects goes live, and continue doing this by 10% per month until there is no meta 0 loot available in wrecks. Meta 1+ loot would still be available, as well as something like NPC goods dropped (tags, etc) which would be a smaller income source for the mission runners.
TL;DR: Supported for more info, but don't alter drop rates until game mechanics are changed.
"May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table. |
Drake Draconis
Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.03.04 19:10:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 04/03/2010 19:10:41
Originally by: Bunyip While I support the request for information, there would need to be some major changes to the game before removing T1 Meta 0 loot were possible. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for this, but it can't happen in the game as it is right now without drastic consequences both on the market and on gameplay.
For one, you'd need to add a lot more manufacturing stations (somewhere like 3x the amount currently available). As another, you'd have to make mining more interesting and profitable, maybe by altering the composition of most of the asteroids in the game.
What I would recommend in this incarnation is to reduce the T1 Meta 0 drop chance by 10% a few months before the expansion that overhauls all the aspects goes live, and continue doing this by 10% per month until there is no meta 0 loot available in wrecks. Meta 1+ loot would still be available, as well as something like NPC goods dropped (tags, etc) which would be a smaller income source for the mission runners.
TL;DR: Supported for more info, but don't alter drop rates until game mechanics are changed.
This... I'm wholly against the removal of the said loot for obvious reasons (just think back to the days of being noob for crying out loud)
Top that off with the fact that I think the argument of minerals flooding the market from missions is totally off the wall... I want to see the proof in the pudding so to speak... won't reverse my stance until such time.
PS: If they change it... bunyips proposed change seems like a good place to start. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Jerid Verges
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Posted - 2010.03.04 21:14:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Jerid Verges on 04/03/2010 21:14:14 CCP needs to keep its player base more informed.
Supported.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.03.05 03:15:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Future Mutant on 05/03/2010 03:23:29 That table is nice but misleading. Two words- alloy compression.
Now try to guess how much that skewed the data.
stealth edit- i was going to leave it at that but i feel a rant coming on....
Everyone babbling about the economist being "clueless" needs to get it through their heads he doesnt work for you. His job is NOT to print out little graphs showing what you should invest in next. He will NOT be giving you sure fire tips on where to invest, on whats hot, and whats not. If ccp did go down that road- it would be a madhouse. Ie. you are all a bunch of mindless lemmings.
That said- i have nothing against generic information being released. Generic as in NON SPECIFIC like it has been. Last thing we need is the official ccp economy guy telling all you twits that alloy x or mod y is going up.
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Carniflex
StarHunt Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.03.05 11:15:00 -
[17]
A worthy proposal. The numbers previously relased are propably somewhat misleading. For example I compressed few days ago 212 mil trit, 50 mil pyer, 20 mil mex and some other higher end minerals and then melted em down today. Just to save few freighter trips to for moving all that. Around 1:22 to 1:30 compression ratios are possible and used on regular basis when moving minerals.
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Brian Khan
StarHunt Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.03.05 11:16:00 -
[18]
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Vlad Wormwing
StarHunt Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.03.05 11:16:00 -
[19]
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Tehnomaag
StarHunt Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.03.05 11:17:00 -
[20]
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Dariah Stardweller
Gung-Ho
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Posted - 2010.03.05 11:26:00 -
[21]
Yes, if only to show the world exactly how badly broken the mineral production really is :)
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Slade Hoo
Corpse Collection Point
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Posted - 2010.03.15 13:35:00 -
[22]
------ Make Lowsec useful! Vote in the CSM-Forum! |
Droog 1
Black Rise Inbreds
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Posted - 2010.03.15 13:53:00 -
[23]
Supporting this. |
Tactical Miner
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Posted - 2010.03.15 13:57:00 -
[24]
agree
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Enzu777
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Posted - 2010.03.15 15:41:00 -
[25]
ccp please fix mining to make it worthwhile
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.03.16 01:33:00 -
[26]
hell yes, and this chart should also go in every econ dev blog published too.
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Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2010.03.16 02:52:00 -
[27]
Patri
I'll Roshambo you for that Titan |
Riena Shiro
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Posted - 2010.03.17 00:20:00 -
[28]
Yes please! /supporting
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Seth Ruin
Ominous Corp Primary.
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Posted - 2010.03.19 17:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Riena Shiro Yes please! /supporting
You forgot to tick the "Suppport this topic" box. |
Turiel Demon
Celtic industries F A I L
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Posted - 2010.03.19 18:07:00 -
[30]
Quote: 3) some data about the number of ships self destructing to collect insurance.
This in particular will give us the best idea of just how many excess-minerals are out there.
Nevertheless, it won't be perfect, as not all ships built for self-destructing have been self-destructed, so maybe it would also be helpful to look at the stats of tier 3 BS built recently compared to a year ago. |
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