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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.03 21:16:00 -
[1]
People often cite this post:
 Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Posted - 2009.02.04 15:20:00
To give more precise data as the 40% was a figure I used as an overall average was 'of the top of my head' during the meeting taken from the data below.
This was the one month split for all items reprocessed measured mid-august to mid-september 2008.
|| Mineral || Ore% || Loot% || Drone Compounds% ||
||-----------||------||-------||------------------||
|| Tritanium || 46% || 43% || 11% ||
|| Pyerite || 29% || 60% || 10% ||
|| Mexallon || 30% || 59% || 11% ||
|| Isogen || 21% || 56% || 23% ||
|| Nocxium || 18% || 32% || 51% ||
|| Zydrine || 43% || 18% || 40% ||
|| Megacyte || 44% || 39% || 16% ||
|| Morphite || 77% || 1% || 22% ||
* Ore is minerals from the asteroid ores
* loot is modules, ships, charges, drones for example.
* drone compounds are loot items from rogue drones
However, whatever conclusion you draw from those stats, be careful as it does not tell you much really such as how many people were mining or running missions. The number of people running missions is massive compared to number of miners and the source per person much lower overall however it is a large diffuse source. It is a similar story for anytime a player encounters the rogue drones.
The ongoing discussion we are having internally is really around the point of to what degree a specialist profession like mining should be adversely affected by another career path where this forms only one part of their total reward/income pool.
Nothing is happening on this front for Apocrypha but feel free to discuss this and I'll keep tabs on discussion as it is an interesting topic.
as a reason to change/remove meta 0 modules drop rate in missions (and some of them whant them removed from belt rats too).
If you look closely to the data you will notice that loot include Morphite (so the loot table include T2 items).
It include reprocessed ships and compression modules too.
So the data were heavily contaminated even then.
Now time as passed and we had Wormholes, Unholy rage, the Velspater buff and the 0.0 upgrades.
There are plenty of discussions in the Market forum and the Science and industry forum about the value of minerals and turning them to isk by self destructing ship that we have just produced and mission running and ratting are often indicated as the culprit of the low value of minerals.
It can be true or the problem can be another, so I vould like to see CCP give some up to date information.
Something like:
1) a table like the one above for a recent period, one cleared of spurious data as much as possible;
2) how much minerals are mined in high sec/low sec/0.0/WH or at least the different percentages if CCP feel that knowing the actual quantities could affect the markets.
3) some data about the number of ships self destructing to collect insurance.
I think all those data are needed if we want to help CCP analyze the problem and I really hope CCP has them as they need them to see what is happening in EVE.
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2010.03.03 21:21:00 -
[2]
supporting myself
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De'Veldrin
Special Projects Executive
The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.03.03 21:28:00 -
[3]
Edited by: De''Veldrin on 03/03/2010 21:28:06
I would like to see this data as well. Basically I'd like to see how much of each mineral type is created from each activity as a percentage of the total of mineral production from all activities.
Edit for thumb
--Vel
Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats. |
HarveyBirdman Esquire
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Posted - 2010.03.03 22:38:00 -
[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_information_act
-Harvey Birdman, Sunshine of Law!
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.03.03 23:42:00 -
[5]
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 03/03/2010 23:42:02
Now with Pyerite as only 30% from miners. No wonder the miners cant keep up.
Also insurance is broken also hired economist has no clue about eve economy.
Also 20% of noxcium and isogen is from miners no wonder lo-sec ores are broken.
CCP WAKE UP !!!
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Addicted User
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Posted - 2010.03.04 01:24:00 -
[6]
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GIGAR
Domini Umbrus
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Posted - 2010.03.04 07:31:00 -
[7]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 03/03/2010 23:42:02
Now with Pyerite as only 30% from miners. No wonder the miners cant keep up.
Also insurance is broken also hired economist has no clue about eve economy.
Also 20% of noxcium and isogen is from miners no wonder lo-sec ores are broken.
CCP WAKE UP !!!
Hi, I'm the Eve economist, lets decide not to impact the market, but we'll just add a crapload of extra supply!
Yeah, that'll work!
There's NO WAY that prices are going to drop from this... Making highend ores available in all 0.0's with sov upgrades does not impact mining in any way! Nope!
I'm not saying the sov upgrades are bad (I think they're awesome), but CCP should get their arses kicked for continuing to say that "we don't affect economy", then continuing to increase supply :/ (we saw this with increase respawn of ores in highsec as well)
--------------------------
Originally by: Akita T
Actually, GIGAR is right.
Wtf?
Originally by: Akita T
Well, at least sort of. A little bit. Conceptually speaking.
That's more like it. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.04 09:16:00 -
[8]
Venkul is correct: clear information on such a heavily discussed and important topic is vital.
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Bubbled
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Posted - 2010.03.04 10:37:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Bubbled on 04/03/2010 10:38:41
[request of information] Souces of minerals
I always wondered what taste is the Tritanium Souce...  
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.03.04 10:51:00 -
[10]
If only CCP would hire an economist that could easily whip up a chart like that and release it on the forums.
Instead of hiring an economist with zero experience in his field, CCP should have hired a player who read economics for dummies and had him make some charts. Would have been 10000x more useful. Supporting this to show how inept EyjoG is.
Originally by: Jim Raynor
EVE needs danger, EVE needs risks, EVE needs combat, even piracy, without these things, the game stagnates to a trivial game centering around bloating your wallet with no purpose. |
Asuri Kinnes
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.03.04 16:28:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 04/03/2010 16:28:29
I am also interested in the effect the various changes to the mineral supply are having on the in-game economy.
IMHO, miners should account for the majority of minerals in Eve. If that's not possible, it should still *not* be possible to build/insure/suicide ships for a profit. That's just silly no matter how you look at it.
 Edited to show support.
Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Merle Hausen
Phoenix Propulsion Labs
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2010.03.04 17:27:00 -
[12]
This kind of information is extremely important to us industrialists. The sad fact is that only CCP has the ability to generate these numbers for us hurt as we don't have access to raw market data.
You know what, that would be awesome if CCP could give us a market data dump say every month with all the useful information, but I can see how that would probably be too much work and too much data to handle.
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Bunyip
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.03.04 19:07:00 -
[13]
While I support the request for information, there would need to be some major changes to the game before removing T1 Meta 0 loot were possible. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for this, but it can't happen in the game as it is right now without drastic consequences both on the market and on gameplay.
For one, you'd need to add a lot more manufacturing stations (somewhere like 3x the amount currently available). As another, you'd have to make mining more interesting and profitable, maybe by altering the composition of most of the asteroids in the game.
What I would recommend in this incarnation is to reduce the T1 Meta 0 drop chance by 10% a few months before the expansion that overhauls all the aspects goes live, and continue doing this by 10% per month until there is no meta 0 loot available in wrecks. Meta 1+ loot would still be available, as well as something like NPC goods dropped (tags, etc) which would be a smaller income source for the mission runners.
TL;DR: Supported for more info, but don't alter drop rates until game mechanics are changed.
"May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table. |
Drake Draconis
Shadow Cadre
Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.03.04 19:10:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 04/03/2010 19:10:41
Originally by: Bunyip
While I support the request for information, there would need to be some major changes to the game before removing T1 Meta 0 loot were possible. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for this, but it can't happen in the game as it is right now without drastic consequences both on the market and on gameplay.
For one, you'd need to add a lot more manufacturing stations (somewhere like 3x the amount currently available). As another, you'd have to make mining more interesting and profitable, maybe by altering the composition of most of the asteroids in the game.
What I would recommend in this incarnation is to reduce the T1 Meta 0 drop chance by 10% a few months before the expansion that overhauls all the aspects goes live, and continue doing this by 10% per month until there is no meta 0 loot available in wrecks. Meta 1+ loot would still be available, as well as something like NPC goods dropped (tags, etc) which would be a smaller income source for the mission runners.
TL;DR: Supported for more info, but don't alter drop rates until game mechanics are changed.
This... I'm wholly against the removal of the said loot for obvious reasons (just think back to the days of being noob for crying out loud)
Top that off with the fact that I think the argument of minerals flooding the market from missions is totally off the wall... I want to see the proof in the pudding so to speak... won't reverse my stance until such time.
PS: If they change it... bunyips proposed change seems like a good place to start.
=========================
CEO of Shadow Cadre
http://www.shadowcadre.com
========================= |
Jerid Verges
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Posted - 2010.03.04 21:14:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Jerid Verges on 04/03/2010 21:14:14
CCP needs to keep its player base more informed.
Supported.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.03.05 03:15:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Future Mutant on 05/03/2010 03:23:29
That table is nice but misleading. Two words- alloy compression.
Now try to guess how much that skewed the data.
stealth edit- i was going to leave it at that but i feel a rant coming on....
Everyone babbling about the economist being "clueless" needs to get it through their heads he doesnt work for you. His job is NOT to print out little graphs showing what you should invest in next. He will NOT be giving you sure fire tips on where to invest, on whats hot, and whats not. If ccp did go down that road- it would be a madhouse. Ie. you are all a bunch of mindless lemmings.
That said- i have nothing against generic information being released. Generic as in NON SPECIFIC like it has been. Last thing we need is the official ccp economy guy telling all you twits that alloy x or mod y is going up.
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Carniflex
StarHunt
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.03.05 11:15:00 -
[17]
A worthy proposal. The numbers previously relased are propably somewhat misleading. For example I compressed few days ago 212 mil trit, 50 mil pyer, 20 mil mex and some other higher end minerals and then melted em down today. Just to save few freighter trips to for moving all that. Around 1:22 to 1:30 compression ratios are possible and used on regular basis when moving minerals.
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Brian Khan
StarHunt
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.03.05 11:16:00 -
[18]
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Vlad Wormwing
StarHunt
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.03.05 11:16:00 -
[19]
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Tehnomaag
StarHunt
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.03.05 11:17:00 -
[20]
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Dariah Stardweller
Gung-Ho
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Posted - 2010.03.05 11:26:00 -
[21]
Yes, if only to show the world exactly how badly broken the mineral production really is :)
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Slade Hoo
Corpse Collection Point
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Posted - 2010.03.15 13:35:00 -
[22]
------
Make Lowsec useful! Vote in the CSM-Forum! |
Droog 1
Black Rise Inbreds
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Posted - 2010.03.15 13:53:00 -
[23]
Supporting this. |
Tactical Miner
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Posted - 2010.03.15 13:57:00 -
[24]
agree
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Enzu777
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Posted - 2010.03.15 15:41:00 -
[25]
ccp please fix mining to make it worthwhile
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.03.16 01:33:00 -
[26]
hell yes, and this chart should also go in every econ dev blog published too.
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Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2010.03.16 02:52:00 -
[27]
Patri
I'll Roshambo you for that Titan |
Riena Shiro
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Posted - 2010.03.17 00:20:00 -
[28]
Yes please! /supporting
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Seth Ruin
Ominous Corp
Primary.
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Posted - 2010.03.19 17:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Riena Shiro
Yes please! /supporting
You forgot to tick the "Suppport this topic" box.  |
Turiel Demon
Celtic industries
F A I L
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Posted - 2010.03.19 18:07:00 -
[30]
Quote:
3) some data about the number of ships self destructing to collect insurance.
This in particular will give us the best idea of just how many excess-minerals are out there.
Nevertheless, it won't be perfect, as not all ships built for self-destructing have been self-destructed, so maybe it would also be helpful to look at the stats of tier 3 BS built recently compared to a year ago. |
ISellThingz
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Posted - 2010.03.19 18:57:00 -
[31]
Supporting 
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Nifter Telfo
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Posted - 2010.03.19 19:08:00 -
[32]
Support! |
Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.03.19 23:17:00 -
[33]
----
Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Anna Lifera
Imperial Legion of Amarr
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Posted - 2010.03.19 23:34:00 -
[34]
that'd be good but just in case it doesn't go through... maybe it's the tons of exhumers littering the belts?
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Silvermane Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.03.20 00:47:00 -
[35]
10/10, would support again.
-----
Regarding high-sec mining:
Originally by: AmarrettoDiAmarr
3-4 million ISK/hr is perhaps .15 0r .20 US$/hr; not quite prison wages and you are around less honest people.
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Mimiru Minahiro
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Posted - 2010.03.20 06:53:00 -
[36]
10/10
I am concerned about the ability of CCP to accurately come up with figures regarding meta0 items though. I am not saying it cant be done, but knowing if a melted 425mm Railgun I came from a mission, was built using minerals from a different melted mission item, or built using minerals from a different item that was originally built using mined material is most likely a nightmare.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE include a full disclosure of the methodology employed in determining such things so the player base can have meaningful information!!! We all know the results of data can be heavily scewed by the collection method used aquiring it.
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2010.03.20 08:59:00 -
[37]
Eventhough I doubt CCP will give us this information I fully suport this.
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Rasullalah
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Posted - 2010.03.20 09:00:00 -
[38]
Supported in the name of Allah and my mining beams.
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Knopje
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Posted - 2010.03.20 09:11:00 -
[39]
Adding my support.
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The Hag
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Posted - 2010.03.20 10:01:00 -
[40]
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Ayari
Flying Monkey Squad
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Posted - 2010.03.20 11:40:00 -
[41]
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Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.03.20 15:41:00 -
[42]
/support
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Jack Cardigan
Toon Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.03.20 18:36:00 -
[43]
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Daemonspirit
Redhawk Tribal Trust
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Posted - 2010.03.21 16:05:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Daemonspirit on 21/03/2010 16:08:08
I thought for sure when I saw this thread, it was less than 12 hours old... Can't believe, with all the people that are calling for "nerf lvl 4's", "do away with insurance", etc., etc., that there would be a larger demand for this information...
Supporting this call for information - better information = better decisions...
Stealth Edit...
Originally by: Future Mutant
stealth edit- i was going to leave it at that but i feel a rant coming on....
Everyone babbling about the economist being "clueless" needs to get it through their heads he doesnt work for you. His job is NOT to print out little graphs showing what you should invest in next. He will NOT be giving you sure fire tips on where to invest, on whats hot, and whats not. If ccp did go down that road- it would be a madhouse. Ie. you are all a bunch of mindless lemmings.
That said- i have nothing against generic information being released. Generic as in NON SPECIFIC like it has been. Last thing we need is the official ccp economy guy telling all you twits that alloy x or mod y is going up.
Re-read the post, no one is asking for projections (i.e. - where to invest) they're asking for specific information as to volume of minerals produced in each area... Nothing to do with investing...
you should re-rail your rant to have something to do with the topic...
ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö |
Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2010.03.21 20:35:00 -
[45]
Yes, please shed some (updated) light on this.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.03.22 04:24:00 -
[46]
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Cyberman Mastermind
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Posted - 2010.03.22 09:34:00 -
[47]
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Aliea Konovalev
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Posted - 2010.03.23 01:42:00 -
[48]
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Boraf Flux
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Posted - 2010.03.23 14:12:00 -
[49]
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Land0 CaIrissian
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.03.23 19:01:00 -
[50]
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Garr Anders
Thukk U
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Posted - 2010.03.24 09:03:00 -
[51]
Also coming back to the
"remove T1/meta 0 items from all loot tables"
It would also seriously help new player producers/manufactures getting into the buisness.
Supported
-----
Garr Anders
"The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet.
- referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
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Robbert Smith
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Posted - 2010.03.25 03:57:00 -
[52]
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Kara Sharalien
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Posted - 2010.03.25 04:21:00 -
[53]
I will definately support the request for information on this matter.
Originally by: Thuul'Khalat
WHY YOU VIOLENCE MY BOAT?!
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.03.25 07:24:00 -
[54]
Edited by: ShahFluffers on 25/03/2010 07:25:18
I can see both good and bad things happening with the release of information.
On one hand, seeing this information can give one an understanding as to what forces are dominating the current game market and help one decide on what skill points and effort to invest in.
On the other hand, with the release of this data people here in the Assembly Hall can better articulate their points for or against ideas (by virtue of having FACTS rather than the usual "Most people say/feel..." or " In my experience..." being thrown around), allowing for more meaningful discussions and a possible cut-down in ******ed pseudo-economic bull**** petitions (probably not so much the latter).
Supported.
edit: spelling
_______________________
"Just because I look like an idiot doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
Giulio Peruzzi
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Posted - 2010.03.25 08:46:00 -
[55]
Supported
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theSONARnet
Dark-Rising
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.25 11:33:00 -
[56]
. |
Mantees
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
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Posted - 2010.03.25 11:51:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
hell yes, and this chart should also go in every econ dev blog published too.
--
OGRank.com - EVE Online - MMORPG News |
yani dumyat
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.03.25 12:41:00 -
[58]
Yep more info is good
Sig_______
"Advice is a form of nostalgia. Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth." |
Gerard Deneth
Pavlov Labs GmBH
Independent Faction
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Posted - 2010.03.28 01:54:00 -
[59]
I support this idea!
----------------------------
The Game's always changing under your feet; don't start moaning when you get a toe caught in the gears. |
Reynolds
Third Return Inc.
On the Rocks
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Posted - 2010.03.28 22:21:00 -
[60]
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Matalino
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Posted - 2010.03.29 17:05:00 -
[61]
3) Dev blog is scheduled for this week and over haul of insurance mechanics scheduled for May 18.
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Quality Treats
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Posted - 2010.03.29 20:46:00 -
[62]
+1
The more info, the better...
- QT
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Jerid Verges
Gallente
The Society of Innovation
The Last Stand
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Posted - 2010.03.31 03:52:00 -
[63]
Now that it has been announced that insurance, drone regions, and loot is taking a nerf. Data should definately be supplied to be contrasted to another study done before Winter expansion so players can see the difference in the mineral supply.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.04.02 07:21:00 -
[64]
The ideal informations would: be the situation just before the Dev blog, the situation before the November expansion and the situation before the unholy rage/veldspar buff in summer.
That way we should have the data with a large macro/RMT presence, with a reduced RMT presence (November) and with the new 0.0 sovereignty (March).
And some clear information on what was done to clear the data of the spurious information (mostly compression items and reprocessed ships).
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Z0D
Minmatar
Rubycom Matrix
United Corporations Of Modern Eve
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Posted - 2010.04.11 07:56:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Z0D on 11/04/2010 08:03:04
Will bring to the next meeting.
Wiki
Click below for my manifesto.
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