EVE Search - [Issue] Capital ship self destruct

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Assembly Hall

[Issue] Capital ship self destruct

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
xo3e	Posted - 2010.03.05 22:36:00 - [1] Edited by: xo3e on 05/03/2010 22:47:50 (In process of editing...) I think this is painful problem to most of PvPers. And i am personally tired of this... useful ability. In most cases capitals use self destruction to dramatically reduce to minimize profit for opponents. As result, those who "killed" s/d capital, gets nothing... no loot, no killmail, etc. But what does it cost to capital pilot? He gets very nice insurance payout, and no killmail, which can show that he is unbelievable noob, who lost a carrier to industrial ship, or something like that. Main issue is that capital ship now can avoid true loss in the majority of situations, and no matter, is he attacked by small HAC gang or good Battleships gang. His active tank allows him to live long enough to finish self destruct procedure, and leave opponents holding the bag (Except large 0.0 blobs). To solve this problem two changes must be implemented: 1) no insurance payout for capital pilot if he s/d 2) killmail is generated in any case and given to last shot and also to solve problem fully: increase s/d timer for capitals to 10 minutes put offline all modules on initiation of s/d procedure decrease capacitor to 0 on initiation of s/d procedure And also i think it is reasonable to make s/d impossible under pos field (not only for capitals).
HCMan The Deliberate Forces	Posted - 2010.03.05 22:39:00 - [2] agreed
Maxsim Goratiev Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate	Posted - 2010.03.05 22:45:00 - [3] 1) no, i don't like this. Maybe if applied to all ships to dicourage self-destruct in combat. Needs to be loocked at carefully. 2) sure 3)No point if first point is implemented, 10 minuts seems absurdely long to me. So no on this one. 4) Yes, as alternative to #1, but cannot be used together with #1. 5) yes, as alternative to #1 and # 4, but they cannot be all used together. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes.StevieSG
Merle Hausen Caldari Phoenix Propulsion Labs Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2010.03.05 23:04:00 - [4] Like everything else in EvE, what a player may try to obtain can be denied from them. SD'ing denies the aggressor the KM and rightfully so. IRC CCP has stated that the lack of KM for SD is working as designed and I for one can completely agree with them. Sorry, but bring more DPS or HTFU. In EvE, nothing is given to you and you have to take the initiative to obtain what you want. Nothing makes me happier than pilots tears from not getting their precious KM. Even better yet is when they fake said KM because "they earned it." On the issue of insurance, I agree with you to a degree, but SD is a legitimate game mechanic for a number of reasons, such as getting stuck, some missions, ect. ect. Nothing is more pathetic than lazy pilots demanding to be given something that has been taken from them. Hmmm, this sounds really familiar. Like pilots complaining about salvage not being theirs maybe?
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.03.05 23:16:00 - [5] Originally by: Merle Hausen Like everything else in EvE, what a player may try to obtain can be denied from them. SD'ing denies the aggressor the KM and rightfully so. IRC CCP has stated that the lack of KM for SD is working as designed and I for one can completely agree with them. Sorry, but bring more DPS or HTFU. In EvE, nothing is given to you and you have to take the initiative to obtain what you want. Nothing makes me happier than pilots tears from not getting their precious KM. Even better yet is when they fake said KM because "they earned it." On the issue of insurance, I agree with you to a degree, but SD is a legitimate game mechanic for a number of reasons, such as getting stuck, some missions, ect. ect. Nothing is more pathetic than lazy pilots demanding to be given something that has been taken from them. Hmmm, this sounds really familiar. Like pilots complaining about salvage not being theirs maybe? couldnt have said it better. (not supported)
Ephemeron Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates	Posted - 2010.03.05 23:32:00 - [6] I think that people who kill capitals aren't doing it for the loot. It's a not a serious argument to make against self destruct option I see how self destruct option is kind of a downer, for the gank squad (lets face it, it's only used by victims of overwhelming force). But it puts a nice twist on the whole PvP scene, and it goes well with EVE's core theme of hurting people.
Larkonis Trassler Genos Occidere Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.05 23:39:00 - [7] Meh... I don't like self destruct right now for the simple reason that the person who is doing so is having his cake and eating it. He is able to deny all loot, the killmail and he gets his insurance payout. It's a win/win scenario for the self destructer. Now, I couldn't give two hoots about the killmail or the loot as long as the person doing the self destructing gets hit in the balls by it (figuratively speaking). For those saying 'HTFU' and 'Bring more DPS'... really gents? You want to encourage more blobby behaviour? Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist No. Larkonis
Jeremey Glittering Dust	Posted - 2010.03.05 23:48:00 - [8] Edited by: Jeremey on 05/03/2010 23:48:10 Originally by: Merle Hausen IRC CCP has stated that the lack of KM for SD is working as designed Then why current CSM have "Selfdestruct balancing" on theirs issue list as major issue for this year? Originally by: Merle Hausen Sorry, but bring more DPS or HTFU. In EvE, nothing is given to you and you have to take the initiative to obtain what you want. The topicstarter personally participated in killing of 10 carriers and his corp participated in killing or killed 16. Not mentioning that he in sum have more than 700 kills. On the other side, you have 36 kills for all your lifetime (which is very, very small number) and 15 stupid losses. So you have no right to say "Sorry, but bring more DPS or HTFU", because you're, in fact, totally incompetent in common pvp, not talking about killing carriers. Originally by: Merle Hausen Nothing makes me happier than pilots tears from not getting their precious KM. Even better yet is when they fake said KM because "they earned it." Are you piloting a carrier to be happy about it? Do you ever selfdestructed one? If not, you're just yet another carebear theorist, which enjoys posting his incompetent opinion.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.03.05 23:48:00 - [9] Originally by: Larkonis Trassler For those saying 'HTFU' and 'Bring more DPS'... really gents? You want to encourage more blobby behaviour? I dont see it as encouraging blobs. but when you dont have enough dps to kill them in time you might not get the kill mail. no need to whine about it. move on and find the next target.
Ephemeron Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates	Posted - 2010.03.05 23:57:00 - [10] Edited by: Ephemeron on 06/03/2010 00:02:31 Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Meh... I don't like self destruct right now for the simple reason that the person who is doing so is having his cake and eating it. He is able to deny all loot, the killmail and he gets his insurance payout. It's a win/win scenario for the self destructer. Now, I couldn't give two hoots about the killmail or the loot as long as the person doing the self destructing gets hit in the balls by it (figuratively speaking). For those saying 'HTFU' and 'Bring more DPS'... really gents? You want to encourage more blobby behaviour? if it's a win win to self destruct, why don't you do it more often? like when your territory is being attacked, simply self destruct and all your troubles go away. The enemy gets NOTHING, so they would be too discouraged to come in the first place, right?

xo3e The Deliberate Forces	Posted - 2010.03.05 23:59:00 - [11] Edited by: xo3e on 06/03/2010 00:03:12 Originally by: Merle Hausen HTFU. Quote: Lifetime kills:36 wait.. what? Quote: I think that people who kill capitals aren't doing it for the loot. nope. there are tons of carriers doing lv5 missions in lowsec, and some of them faction/deadspace fitted. and u dont need large amount of DPS to kill it on a mission. in example, today we (3 BS with neutralizers, drake and dramiel) have caught natos on angel mission in Iges, but he self destructed on 50% of structure. no loot, no km, wtf? and this kind of stuff happens all the time. maim, kill, burn!
Jeremey Glittering Dust	Posted - 2010.03.06 00:05:00 - [12] Edited by: Jeremey on 06/03/2010 00:06:00 Originally by: Larkonis Trassler He is able to deny all loot, the killmail and he gets his insurance payout. It's a win/win scenario for the self destructer. That's the whole point of the topic - the body in the carrier can deny enemy everything, but loses nothing from it - he can cancel self destruct at any moment, he gets insurance and receives no penalties for initiating the selfdestruct. Originally by: Larkonis Trassler For those saying 'HTFU' and 'Bring more DPS'... really gents? You want to encourage more blobby behaviour? No, they just don't understand that unproperly fitted carrier can be killed with relatively small gang, but selfdestruct in that case gives carrier pilot 100% useful ability with no penalties. Originally by: darius mclever but when you dont have enough dps to kill them in time you might not get the kill mail. no need to whine about it. move on and find the next target. And so what? Next target will selfdestruct too.
Ephemeron Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates	Posted - 2010.03.06 00:07:00 - [13] ok, I forget some some carebears misuse the carrier for mission running. And I'm all for the inhumane treatment of carebears, but there's gotta be a different way than messing with the self destruct for caps across the board. Maybe modify missions so they don't allow carriers to finish them. After all, NPC rats deserve better treatment too, more than some carebears
Jeremey Glittering Dust	Posted - 2010.03.06 00:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Ephemeron And I'm all for the inhumane treatment of carebears, but there's gotta be a different way than messing with the self destruct for caps across the board. Maybe modify missions so they don't allow carriers to finish them. After all, NPC rats deserve better treatment too, more than some carebears Why treat the leg when in fact it's the ear that is in the pain?
HeckfyEx	Posted - 2010.03.06 00:15:00 - [15] i support it
Larkonis Trassler Genos Occidere Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.06 00:20:00 - [16] Originally by: Ephemeron Edited by: Ephemeron on 06/03/2010 00:02:31 Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Meh... I don't like self destruct right now for the simple reason that the person who is doing so is having his cake and eating it. He is able to deny all loot, the killmail and he gets his insurance payout. It's a win/win scenario for the self destructer. Now, I couldn't give two hoots about the killmail or the loot as long as the person doing the self destructing gets hit in the balls by it (figuratively speaking). For those saying 'HTFU' and 'Bring more DPS'... really gents? You want to encourage more blobby behaviour? if it's a win win to self destruct, why don't you do it more often? like when your territory is being attacked, simply self destruct and all your troubles go away. The enemy gets NOTHING, so they would be too discouraged to come in the first place, right? 1/10... I thought you quit anyway? Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist No. Larkonis
VoZzZic The Deliberate Forces	Posted - 2010.03.06 03:56:00 - [17] Agreed. Cap. pilot, diying in a blob by focusing, dont have an ability to take his ship out without casualties. Why moron, caught by small fleet, must have one? If you need to get your insurance - do it somewhere on spot, with adequate timer... Snatch out!
Daymio Research and Development Shop	Posted - 2010.03.06 04:42:00 - [18] singed
Kira RUS	Posted - 2010.03.06 04:51:00 - [19] agreed
Orioniys The Deliberate Forces	Posted - 2010.03.06 05:22:00 - [20] sounds like good idea supported

bluenzo	Posted - 2010.03.06 06:33:00 - [21] IRL (if there was one like eve) If I was going to lose my ship I would set self destruct and gtfo. I don't want technology getting into enemy hands. If anything make the timer last longer like 5 minutes.
Vizirion	Posted - 2010.03.06 06:50:00 - [22] Signed
Quetzalkoatl RUS	Posted - 2010.03.06 07:40:00 - [23] Agreed.
Maxsim Goratiev Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate	Posted - 2010.03.06 10:41:00 - [24] selfdestruct maybe used to deny loot, that is fine with me, killmail needs to be sent out. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes.StevieSG
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2010.03.06 11:32:00 - [25] Edited by: Marlona Sky on 06/03/2010 11:32:13 I think the self destruct timer should be based on ship size (class). If the ship reaches the end of the timer then NO kill mail should be issued to anyone. On another note of the whole, "He self-destructed and is getting to have his cake and eat it too." crap. Since when was anyone able to make a profit off a fully fit carrier or dread when is fit? Take into account the amount of ISK to buy the insurance and the cost of the mods, fighters, drones, rigs. You get the idea. Only T1 crap fit, non-rigged, T1 ships that are sub-capital are you able to pull this off, and not on all of them. They are still out ISK, especially on capital ships. Not to mention the logistics of getting said stuff replaced. In closing I am in support of the timer being adjusted based on the ship size itself. I have had many ships self-destruct on me when I was unable to kill them in the 2 minutes, but I shrugged it off and moved on with my life. Maybe it is time for you to do the same?
HaartSp The Deliberate Forces	Posted - 2010.03.06 13:16:00 - [26] SUpport it.
Jeremey Glittering Dust	Posted - 2010.03.06 13:36:00 - [27] Originally by: Marlona Sky On another note of the whole, "He self-destructed and is getting to have his cake and eat it too." crap. Since when was anyone able to make a profit off a fully fit carrier or dread when is fit? Take into account the amount of ISK to buy the insurance and the cost of the mods, fighters, drones, rigs. You get the idea. No, the whole "whine point" is about something entirely different. Ask yourself a question: why the loot drops when killing ships in Eve? Because, among other things it's reward for the winner. But with capitals we have always-working, no-penalty ability accessible to anyone despite their skillpoints, ship state or state of battle, that allows victim to deny this entire aspect of game (loot drop + killmail generation). I think that is fundamental reason why CSM plans to discuss "selfdestruct balancing". Also, I agree with you that making s/d timer dependent on ship size (and making it more big for capital ships) is most easy and rational way to nerf self destruct. But I also think that killmail must be generated nevertheless, for proper counting of kills and losses on killboards.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.03.06 13:50:00 - [28] Originally by: Jeremey Originally by: Marlona Sky On another note of the whole, "He self-destructed and is getting to have his cake and eat it too." crap. Since when was anyone able to make a profit off a fully fit carrier or dread when is fit? Take into account the amount of ISK to buy the insurance and the cost of the mods, fighters, drones, rigs. You get the idea. No, the whole "whine point" is about something entirely different. Ask yourself a question: why the loot drops when killing ships in Eve? Because, among other things it's reward for the winner. But with capitals we have always-working, no-penalty ability accessible to anyone despite their skillpoints, ship state or state of battle, that allows victim to deny this entire aspect of game (loot drop + killmail generation). I think that is fundamental reason why CSM plans to discuss "selfdestruct balancing". Also, I agree with you that making s/d timer dependent on ship size (and making it more big for capital ships) is most easy and rational way to nerf self destruct. But I also think that killmail must be generated nevertheless, for proper counting of kills and losses on killboards. you assume CCP cares about killmail and killboards, but they dont.
Lineage2CT1 ReD eYeD Corporation Nightmare Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.06 14:04:00 - [29] Agreed _________________________________________ There is only one correct way - own way.
Jeremey Glittering Dust	Posted - 2010.03.06 14:05:00 - [30] Edited by: Jeremey on 06/03/2010 14:05:32 Originally by: darius mclever you assume CCP cares about killmail and killboards, but they dont. Yes, they care much about it. If they don't, they'd haven't implemented killmail portion of Eve API (via which most of modern killboards receive killmails), nor they have had implemented in-game display of corporation kills and losses (almost in-game corporation killboard).



Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.