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Griefing... why is it so easy for the trolls to pick on new people?

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Glaedrous	Posted - 2010.03.14 03:04:00 - [1] Hey everyone, I'm an MMO veteran, but brand-new to EVE. (~30 days played) My friends and I downloaded to try it out together, and formed a small corporation in which we are all currently mining together and having a good time learning the game. We've had a lot of problems though with malicious players trying their best to ruin our play experience. We were first war-declared by a huge PvP corporation for no reason at all. Honestly, we've never talked to or "Lock Target" on anything but asteroids and they came out of no where and started blowing up our ships (in an 0.6 system with plenty of other ppl to pick on... why us?). The second time was much worse... We recruited a new member to the corporation, and brought him on a mining op with us. He shows up in some fancy-shmancy PvP OMGWTFBBQ ship and destroys us all, we lost millions in ships and ore... and then he tells us that a different big PvP corp payed him 200 million ISK to do it to us. Sure enough, we now have another war-declaration now from that PvP corp. Relocating our HQ and buying all new mining barges is really really cutting down on our profit. Why is griefing so easy? What did we do to deserve this? We're not in anyone's territory... Don't the developers see that newer players are being ostracized by the established and elite? Any help with these issues would be GREATLY appreciated. Even though it's a drop-in-the-bucket, we're considering moving on to another game. Thank you all in advance.
Seurimas	Posted - 2010.03.14 03:18:00 - [2] You invited the wrong person for starters. Corps I've joined required limited API's to better screen applicants. War-decs are hardly even worth wincing at. Make a new corp, move everyone over. Additionally, boring troll is boring, or whatever you crazy kids say these days.
Outcast Leper	Posted - 2010.03.14 03:21:00 - [3] Well the truth of the matter is that by forming a corporation you have made yourself a legitamate target. Here are some reasons corporations get wardecked: 1. They appear to be an easy target 2. relativly small in size 3. smacktalk more then they can afford to Here are some options to deal with unwanted wardecks: 1. Hide in worm hole space It is very hard to track people down in worm hole space and the wardeckers will give up eventually. 2. Fight back grab a couple of tech 1 frigates and try and attack haulers and so on that the enemy is useing. 3. Dock up If you stay docked you cant die, perhaps try market trading or something 4. Join an alliance A good alliance is greater then the sum of its parts. There are many highsec alliances that will recruit anyone. 5. Disolve your corp and join a more experienced corp with your friends. You can still chat in your own channels but you will be safer and can learn from more experienced players. So you can see that those players can't stop you playing EVE you just need to run, hide or fight. Watch local and use one of the above mentioned methods to stop making yourself a target.
Glaedrous	Posted - 2010.03.14 03:22:00 - [4] Thanks for your reply... I thought it cost major ISK to make a new corp, no? If not, I'll give that a shot. And we'll definitely be MUCH more stringent with new players from now on. My question really is about the principle of the issue, though. Why is it okay for the big, established corps to pick on the new players without restriction?
Mary Stardust	Posted - 2010.03.14 03:32:00 - [5] My guess is if you were a shrink, you would have field day working on the minds of greifers. They are prob people who feel powerless in RL. Eve gives them an outlet to reverse this. this would be one reason. Another, would be folks can be just plain *******s. simple. I dont get why people greif personally but you have to accept it. its part of the game. all you can do is work around it.
Capt Lagos	Posted - 2010.03.14 03:48:00 - [6] Blunt awnser is because they can, Grief that is. Tell ya what if ya corp jump they will just war dec the new one, so disolve your corp, go back to your respective noob corps and you and your buddies just hang in same station and pool your stuff untill your strong enough to build new corp. They cant war dec starting corps Its just part of the game EVE is harsh starting out I like it it keeps the 12 yr old halo kids from hanging around GL
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.03.14 03:48:00 - [7] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 14/03/2010 03:53:29 It is unusual to be wardec'd for no reason at all. It does happen though. It sounds like somebody has a grudge against someone in your corp, which would explain it all and make perfect sense. You have options: * Be diplomatic and try to resolve the issue. * Jump into a bunch of cheap and fully insured frigates or cruisers, and mob the other corp at every opportunity (Griffin or Blackbird and a few combat frigs or cruisers are pure win) * Hire mercenaries. * Hide in w-space until the wardec runs out (lots of good mining there too) * Form a new corp. Personally I recommend the second option. It's the most fun, and a learning experience. P.S. I'm a miner/industrialist, yet I have an insured Scorpion (ECM boat) battleship for when I PvP. I'm working on training a Rook.
Barton Foley	Posted - 2010.03.14 03:53:00 - [8] Originally by: Glaedrous We were first war-declared by a huge PvP corporation Quote: big PvP corp payed him 200 million ISK to do it to us. Sure enough, we now have another war-declaration now from that PvP corp. Looks to me like you really cheesed someone off somewhere somehow, and they're now hiring mercs to trash you. (Which is why I love EVE, the ability to project your will in this game is unparalleled.) That, or for some reason you have made yourselves distinct from the pack, and are attracting attention as easy targets. Typically, newbies in Retrievers do not appear juicy enough to griefing corps to waste a wardec slot on.
Capt Lagos	Posted - 2010.03.14 03:53:00 - [9] Originally by: Tau Cabalander Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 14/03/2010 03:50:24 It is unusual to be wardec'd for no reason at all. It does happen though. It sounds like somebody has a grudge against someone in your corp, which would explain it all and make perfect sense. You have options: * Be diplomatic and try to resolve the issue. * Jump into a bunch of cheap frigates at mob the other corp at every opportunity (Griffin or Blackbird and a few combat frigs are pure win) * Hire mercenaries. ( Hide in w-space until the wardec runs out (lots of good mining there too) * Form a new corp. Personally I recommend the second option. It's the most fun, and a learning experience. This option 2 is fun and prob earn some respect
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.14 03:55:00 - [10] would you walk into the ghetto with some bling and flashing your wallet full of cash? it is only as easy to grief people as you make it.
SupaKudoRio	Posted - 2010.03.14 04:18:00 - [11] 1. Drop corp. 2. Create private chat channel and invite everyone from the corp into it. 3. Business as usual. 4. Profit. _____ 10/10: Where is your God now?
Seurimas	Posted - 2010.03.14 04:37:00 - [12] Originally by: Glaedrous Why is it okay for the big, established corps to pick on the new players without restriction? Because no player has decided it's a grievous assault on the new player experience and organized a merc corp specifically to combat the griefers. EVE is what you make of it, which means EVE is what other people make of it.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.03.14 05:12:00 - [13] Originally by: SupaKudoRio Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 14/03/2010 04:25:52 1. Drop corp. 2. Create private chat channel and invite everyone from the corp into it. 3. Business as usual. 4. Profit. A corp gives you nothing other than the corp hangar/wallet and the chat channel... that's it. The NPC corp tax doesn't apply to market orders. This. This This This. If you just want to mine with friends, just stay in the NPC corp and use a passworded chat channel for your pseudo-corp to stay in. Join/create a corp when you want to deal with pvp.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Reckoning.	Posted - 2010.03.14 05:12:00 - [14] My best guess is that your corp did more than you say. If someone actually hired mercs to get at you, then someone in your corp probably said something stupid and ruffled some feathers.
Celia Therone	Posted - 2010.03.14 05:37:00 - [15] Originally by: Kahega Amielden My best guess is that your corp did more than you say. If someone actually hired mercs to get at you, then someone in your corp probably said something stupid and ruffled some feathers. I have to agree with this. You, or someone in your corp, has almost certainly ****ed someone off. Mercenary corps don't generally get hired on a whim. Someone put hours of effort into earning the isk to hire people to mess with you, and they did it twice. I'd recommend some diplomacy. It might not resolve the situation but just learning why someone is attacking you can be very useful information indeed.
Toshiro GreyHawk	Posted - 2010.03.14 07:04:00 - [16] Eh ... there are real advantages to having those corporation hangars for working on common tasks or sharing equipment. One example is specialization: having one guy trained up to do all the refining; another to do manufacturing; others to do hauling; access to shared ammunition stores; etc., etc. How much use you make of that and what it would mean to you to lose it is up to you. You can just do in station trades but that gets to be a real pain in the ass. Now there's a few things that haven't been mentioned. 1) If these guys are Harassing you without benefit to themselves - in other words they gain nothing by their actions but ruining your fun - then you CAN report them for Harassment. People are not simply allowed to pick someone out at random and intentionally drive them from the game (which people will do). If however - they gain some in game advantage by persecuting you - then that is allowed. So here - the question is - why are these guys after you? 2) One reason not mentioned - is that you are mining what they regard as their asteroid belts. I've seen people take a proprietary interest in certain High Sec systems and drive people out who try to move in and set up shop. That is a completely allowable in game reason for War Deccing someone or Hiring Merc's to do so. Now here - it would help if you understood why you were being attacked. You an ask the people attacking you - and often - they will tell you. They may have already said something to someone in your corporation that other people may or may not be aware of. 3) If you are being attacked - never - take in new recruits. If they are in your corporation - so that you can practice against each other - Concord will not interfere if you shoot each other. Thus - that person was allowed to attack you without repercussion. 4) One of the things you can do - beside dissolving your current corporation and creating a new one - is to create new characters and put THEM in an alternate corporation. They will all have to start from scratch - but - the old corporation can give them money and ships. That way - you have two corporations and can simply switch from one to the other when War Dec'd. Now - just as moving to a new corporation with your old characters would simply end with them declaring war on your new corporation - you can't be telling anyone you don't really trust about this new corporation. So, if you've got a core of buddies that you started playing with and trust - then you can all go to the new corporation with new characters and just cut loose anyone who joined afterwards. Since you've no way of knowing who's a traitor or not ... that might be the best thing to do. Don't form this new corporation in the same area as the old one. Go somewhere else entirely. 5) Now - another thing you can do here - is to use this alternate corp to fund the old one. Turn your old characters into combat dudes and fight the guys attacking you. Stay together, use cheap ships and swarm the people you are fighting. You can also create other characters to use as scouts - little or no training is required for these guys. They just fly about in their rookie ships looking for your enemies - then when they find them - especially if they're in miners - you can come attack them with your combat guys. EVE is a rough game. It is supposed to be a rough game. Enjoy the challenge. If this kind of game isn't for you - then maybe you would be happier somewhere else. Your call. Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools
Aralieus Amarr Rising Devils Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.03.14 07:53:00 - [17] Welcome to the sandbox brotha... Fortune favors the bold!!!
ChrisIsherwood	Posted - 2010.03.14 08:13:00 - [18] It goes without saying that just because the person said he was paid 200m, doesn't mean that was true. There are few reasons to trust anyone in EVE. Even if he was truthful, it would be more EVE-like for him to exaggerate the amount. Both for his epeen, and in case he ever tries to shake you down in the future, it would be in his financial interest for the number to be higher.
The AEther Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.03.14 08:47:00 - [19] Originally by: Glaedrous Why is it okay for the big, established corps to pick on the new players without restriction? But they have restrictions. They cannot wardec players in NPC corporations. Neither can they join NPC corporations and kill all your mining barges using one ship. By forming a corporation you lifted all those restrictions yourself. You should have read a few guides on how player corporations operate and what they are susceptible to before creating one. CCP and older players have also created tons of player guides for you new guys to read up and take measures to keep yourself safe. Agony Unleashed - zero blues 0.0 pvp, pvp classes
Takseen	Posted - 2010.03.14 10:33:00 - [20] TBH, all I'm getting from this is, don't bother forming a newbie corp with the current wardec system in place. Staying in the NPC corp, forming a bunch of solo corps, or joining an existing corp all work out far better.
The AEther Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.03.14 11:25:00 - [21] Originally by: Takseen TBH, all I'm getting from this is, don't bother forming a newbie corp with the current wardec system in place. Staying in the NPC corp, forming a bunch of solo corps, or joining an existing corp all work out far better. Nah, I was in a newbie corp when I started and we did fine primarily because we moved into lowsec very early on. Wardec corporations don't like going into lowsec because there they have to deal with pirates and gate camps. We did have to deal with pirates but losing several frigs and destroyers we learned and adapted. In the long-term it proved to be good training for nullsec space for all of us. You can make a newbie corporation but you need to take certain precautions. There are also many newb corps out there who escape the wardecer's eye. You get to hear on these forums only from corps who have gotten their attention Agony Unleashed - zero blues 0.0 pvp, pvp classes
Milo Caman Gallente Ghost Festival Naraka.	Posted - 2010.03.14 12:30:00 - [22] Mvoing to low/Null/WH space can really help. A lot of the time they won't follow you, or if they do, it'll be in expensive ships to ensure victory. The idea being, you zip through the gatecamps in your little, cheap frigates, and they get popped. If you want a chat about low security opportunies for your corporation, feel free to hit me up ingame. I lived in lowsec as a non-outlaw for a long time before I joined the darkside, and It's feasible and fun. Out of Sinq
Zaqar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2010.03.14 13:24:00 - [23] Calling your corp "Mining corp" isn't a great idea. Also, your corp description might as well say "Hi, we're a soft target, please declare war on us".
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.03.14 13:46:00 - [24] Originally by: Glaedrous Hey everyone, I'm an MMO veteran, but brand-new to EVE. (~30 days played) My friends and I downloaded to try it out together, and formed a small corporation in which we are all currently mining together and having a good time learning the game. We've had a lot of problems though with malicious players trying their best to ruin our play experience. We were first war-declared by a huge PvP corporation for no reason at all. Honestly, we've never talked to or "Lock Target" on anything but asteroids and they came out of no where and started blowing up our ships (in an 0.6 system with plenty of other ppl to pick on... why us?). The second time was much worse... We recruited a new member to the corporation, and brought him on a mining op with us. He shows up in some fancy-shmancy PvP OMGWTFBBQ ship and destroys us all, we lost millions in ships and ore... and then he tells us that a different big PvP corp payed him 200 million ISK to do it to us. Sure enough, we now have another war-declaration now from that PvP corp. Relocating our HQ and buying all new mining barges is really really cutting down on our profit. Why is griefing so easy? What did we do to deserve this? We're not in anyone's territory... Don't the developers see that newer players are being ostracized by the established and elite? Any help with these issues would be GREATLY appreciated. Even though it's a drop-in-the-bucket, we're considering moving on to another game. Thank you all in advance. It was easy because you made it easy. You recruited a guy with a corp history, and you didn't check up on that history. So he made a deal with you that you didn't know about. This was the deal: He got some cheap lulz at your expense *You* learned a sad lesson about life (and EVE)
Taro Inoue	Posted - 2010.03.14 16:24:00 - [25] War decs aren't griefing. Save terms like that for where they belong. No one needs a reason to wardec beyond, "They were there." It's the same in most games. Play a strategy game or FPS, why do you kill the other people running around, why don't you all just live in peace? Because the game would be significantly less fun. Once you join a player corp, your not considered an innocent newbie anymore, you're a target. Your joining a corp was a statement that you can hang in pvp. Meh, posting on alt account. Iria Ahrens
Mr Reeth	Posted - 2010.03.14 17:43:00 - [26] One way of dealing with wardecs that everybody seems to ignore is simply asking the CEO to drop the war. It won't work often but it costs you nothing to try. When you are talking to the CEO be mature and respectful. And remember it's only a game. Take things too seriously and you'll alienate and **** off a large portion of the EvE community. You don't want to be this guy.
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.03.14 20:34:00 - [27] Originally by: Glaedrous Thanks for your reply... I thought it cost major ISK to make a new corp, no? If not, I'll give that a shot. And we'll definitely be MUCH more stringent with new players from now on. My question really is about the principle of the issue, though. Why is it okay for the big, established corps to pick on the new players without restriction? Why should it be stopped? This is a sandbox game which has downsides as well as upsides. Any mechanic to stop it would kill a lot of legitimate play. EVE gets round this my offering many solutions to it. If you allow yourself to be griefed that's your fault, not the games. If you can grasp that EVE becomes a lot of fun. If not you will be miserable. Also forming your own Corp says to other players you are ready to do so in exchange for the benefits it brings. You should research what having your own corp means and how to run it properly. Again, that's fun too. It's the same for any activity in EVE, you should evaluate the risk. If you don;t that's your error, not anyone else's. If it was not for these so called griefers the game would be very boring for many players and very simple too, many of us play it to overcome these obstacles which is why we like it sandbox and not hand holding or patronising.
Takseen	Posted - 2010.03.14 21:58:00 - [28] Forgetting all the victim blaming in the thread for the moment, its still basically a case of "don't bother forming a newbie corp with your mates from NPC corp unless you're heading for lowsec". Which is fair enough if that's the design intent, but it leaves little room for people to complain if they prefer to stay in NPC corps for longer.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.03.14 22:00:00 - [29] Originally by: Takseen Forgetting all the victim blaming in the thread for the moment, its still basically a case of "don't bother forming a newbie corp with your mates from NPC corp unless you're heading for lowsec". Which is fair enough if that's the design intent, but it leaves little room for people to complain if they prefer to stay in NPC corps for longer. If only there were some kind of third possibility. Some mechanism whereby newer players could group with more experienced ones, and be somewhat protected while they learn.
Takseen	Posted - 2010.03.14 22:13:00 - [30] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Takseen Forgetting all the victim blaming in the thread for the moment, its still basically a case of "don't bother forming a newbie corp with your mates from NPC corp unless you're heading for lowsec". Which is fair enough if that's the design intent, but it leaves little room for people to complain if they prefer to stay in NPC corps for longer. If only there were some kind of third possibility. Some mechanism whereby newer players could group with more experienced ones, and be somewhat protected while they learn. Yes indeed, they could join established corps. And indeed they're far far better off doing so apparently. If that's the design intention then fair enough.

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