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Ma'at
   |
Posted - 2004.11.29 19:21:00 -
[1]
after spending a good part of the day doing missions and after about 10 bs kills without them dropping a can, i finally got one.
"at last" i thought as i slowly moved towards it, opened it up and couldnt help but laugh.
from a 1mil 'corpus harbinger' i get, 1 large gamma and a medium beam laser.
pathetic loot and loot that doesnt make sense as the the crystal doesnt even fit the gun.
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Ma'at
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Posted - 2004.11.29 19:21:00 -
[2]
after spending a good part of the day doing missions and after about 10 bs kills without them dropping a can, i finally got one.
"at last" i thought as i slowly moved towards it, opened it up and couldnt help but laugh.
from a 1mil 'corpus harbinger' i get, 1 large gamma and a medium beam laser.
pathetic loot and loot that doesnt make sense as the the crystal doesnt even fit the gun.
|
Damajink
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Posted - 2004.11.29 19:55:00 -
[3]
I got a 425mm Carbide Railgun from a Guristas Inferno (100k Cruiser) the other day 
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Damajink
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Posted - 2004.11.29 19:55:00 -
[4]
I got a 425mm Carbide Railgun from a Guristas Inferno (100k Cruiser) the other day
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Gierling
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 21:52:00 -
[5]
I got a 100mn lifi Booster from a mercenary rookie once... musta been ferrying it for his boss.
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
Gierling
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 21:52:00 -
[6]
I got a 100mn lifi Booster from a mercenary rookie once... musta been ferrying it for his boss.
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
Vigilant
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:21:00 -
[7]
I got a siege launcher from a Frig Kill the other day .. I was like "WTF is this Glad he didn't use it"
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Vigilant
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:21:00 -
[8]
I got a siege launcher from a Frig Kill the other day .. I was like "WTF is this Glad he didn't use it"
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Nikodaemonicus
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:52:00 -
[9]
I didn't wanted to open a new thread about bs loot, so I'm using that one to point some things I have seen so far.
I currently have 15.000 LP with my level 4 agent, so I have made a good amount of kill missions until now, including a mission to go find myself another apoc 
I have seen that 60% of sansha/blood/corpus/pithi and all pirate faction bs do not drop cargo cans. Rest 40% that drop cans do drop worst stuff than frigs and cruisers. 1 unit of Shield Flux or 1 unit of 1MN Afterburner are common examples. Occasionally they drop 1 Large Armor Repairer or 1 Large Gun. Cans dropping 2 items are extremelly rare.
On the other side, I've killed Khanid Slave Traders (apocalypse npc) and they drop the common stuff you can found on Castor 0.0 bs. I haven't killed bs in 0.0 since Exodus hit eve.
I've read Zrakor or Papa Smurf talking about decreasing loot value on empire missions NPC's, and I agree with that. But I think something is wrong with the current loot as I described it. I can just wait and see what happens. Sooner or later it will be fixed, so no need to get nervous yet :) |
Nikodaemonicus
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 22:52:00 -
[10]
I didn't wanted to open a new thread about bs loot, so I'm using that one to point some things I have seen so far.
I currently have 15.000 LP with my level 4 agent, so I have made a good amount of kill missions until now, including a mission to go find myself another apoc
I have seen that 60% of sansha/blood/corpus/pithi and all pirate faction bs do not drop cargo cans. Rest 40% that drop cans do drop worst stuff than frigs and cruisers. 1 unit of Shield Flux or 1 unit of 1MN Afterburner are common examples. Occasionally they drop 1 Large Armor Repairer or 1 Large Gun. Cans dropping 2 items are extremelly rare.
On the other side, I've killed Khanid Slave Traders (apocalypse npc) and they drop the common stuff you can found on Castor 0.0 bs. I haven't killed bs in 0.0 since Exodus hit eve.
I've read Zrakor or Papa Smurf talking about decreasing loot value on empire missions NPC's, and I agree with that. But I think something is wrong with the current loot as I described it. I can just wait and see what happens. Sooner or later it will be fixed, so no need to get nervous yet :) |
Nikodaemonicus
|
Posted - 2004.11.30 19:04:00 -
[11]
So no one cares about what bs are dropping?
I have noticed NPC's at 0.0 complexes drop crap too. And I was unable to find the next key, no one dropped it. |
Nikodaemonicus
|
Posted - 2004.11.30 19:04:00 -
[12]
So no one cares about what bs are dropping?
I have noticed NPC's at 0.0 complexes drop crap too. And I was unable to find the next key, no one dropped it. |
Trevedian
|
Posted - 2004.11.30 19:12:00 -
[13]
I couldn't agree more... I did 10k in loyalty points in a day doing lvl 4 kill missions and despite killing numerous NPC BS's I didn't get one module that was worth keeping.
Angel Commanders, Mammoth Ravens etc are uber and should drop decent loot... instead they drop med shield reps and miner 1's, HOW REALISTC IS THAT?
The Battleships in lvl 4 kill missions should drop decent loot, is that too much to ask?
Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
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Trevedian
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Posted - 2004.11.30 19:12:00 -
[14]
I couldn't agree more... I did 10k in loyalty points in a day doing lvl 4 kill missions and despite killing numerous NPC BS's I didn't get one module that was worth keeping.
Angel Commanders, Mammoth Ravens etc are uber and should drop decent loot... instead they drop med shield reps and miner 1's, HOW REALISTC IS THAT?
The Battleships in lvl 4 kill missions should drop decent loot, is that too much to ask?
Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
|
VOTM
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Posted - 2004.12.01 09:28:00 -
[15]
 Originally by: Gierling
I got a 100mn lifi Booster from a mercenary rookie once... musta been ferrying it for his boss.
I got that yesterday
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VOTM
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Posted - 2004.12.01 09:28:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Gierling
I got a 100mn lifi Booster from a mercenary rookie once... musta been ferrying it for his boss.
I got that yesterday
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gofoi
|
Posted - 2004.12.01 09:46:00 -
[17]
I've done alot of em, and i have to agree the loot is ****... got a couple of Large railguns / blasters, best being a Limited Neutron blaster or Modulated Ion. But the best way imo to make agents missions worth the while is to do em solo with an alt picking up all the loot, i have 7000 LP and almost enough trit, more than enough pyrite to build a tier1 battleship
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gofoi
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Posted - 2004.12.01 09:46:00 -
[18]
I've done alot of em, and i have to agree the loot is ****... got a couple of Large railguns / blasters, best being a Limited Neutron blaster or Modulated Ion. But the best way imo to make agents missions worth the while is to do em solo with an alt picking up all the loot, i have 7000 LP and almost enough trit, more than enough pyrite to build a tier1 battleship
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2004.12.01 11:04:00 -
[19]
I don't agree... those that have every reason to complain are ppl doing "pirate faction" missions where the NPC's don't even give bounty (I'm not one of them so don't jump on me!).
For the "safety" of being in empire, the standing increases and the loyalty points you get it's pretty fair imo... complexes on the other hand need a serious boost in rewards 
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2004.12.01 11:04:00 -
[20]
I don't agree... those that have every reason to complain are ppl doing "pirate faction" missions where the NPC's don't even give bounty (I'm not one of them so don't jump on me!).
For the "safety" of being in empire, the standing increases and the loyalty points you get it's pretty fair imo... complexes on the other hand need a serious boost in rewards
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Estios
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Posted - 2004.12.01 11:21:00 -
[21]
^^^ what he said
Consider yourself lucky ffs, my missions, which are done in empire dont only give me crap loot, I dont even get a ******* bounty.
I sit there and **** away millions in Torps killing Amarr Navy Apocs and all I get in agent pay of 150000isk. THATS A JOKE !!!
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
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Estios
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Posted - 2004.12.01 11:21:00 -
[22]
^^^ what he said
Consider yourself lucky ffs, my missions, which are done in empire dont only give me crap loot, I dont even get a ******* bounty.
I sit there and **** away millions in Torps killing Amarr Navy Apocs and all I get in agent pay of 150000isk. THATS A JOKE !!!
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
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Amin
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Posted - 2004.12.01 12:48:00 -
[23]
About 40% of my battleships kills seem to drop containers and mostly they contain 1 large standard module.
Not having uber loot drops is a good compromise for lvl4 missions, otherwise they would be too good. On average i make about 5mil in bounties per mission if you add top level loot to that, it will be a serious imbalance when compared to 0.0 hunting. The point of Exodus was to make people move out of empire not flock back for great spawns and loot on demand.
Personally, id like to see loot, bonus's and LP scaled upwards the lower the system security is. It would add much needed traffic and also provide more of a market in those neglected areas.
Drink StarsiÖ Relation Co-ordinator
Caldari State Citizen
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Amin
|
Posted - 2004.12.01 12:48:00 -
[24]
About 40% of my battleships kills seem to drop containers and mostly they contain 1 large standard module.
Not having uber loot drops is a good compromise for lvl4 missions, otherwise they would be too good. On average i make about 5mil in bounties per mission if you add top level loot to that, it will be a serious imbalance when compared to 0.0 hunting. The point of Exodus was to make people move out of empire not flock back for great spawns and loot on demand.
Personally, id like to see loot, bonus's and LP scaled upwards the lower the system security is. It would add much needed traffic and also provide more of a market in those neglected areas.
Drink StarsiÖ Relation Co-ordinator
Caldari State Citizen
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
allmus
|
Posted - 2004.12.01 14:07:00 -
[25]
have to agree on the lvl4 drop rates, i get better drop's from 110k bounty cruisers than anything bigger.
best BS drop i got was a dual 425mm autocannon (unnamed) and most of the time i get angel log's or basic nanofibre's if it drop's atall.
about the pirate faction things, i have an idea to solve that problem of no bountys.
like with the last kill's of certain mission, where the last npc drop's 2 can's insead of one, have all the npc faction kill mission rat's drop 1 can always, and in that can have a special type of dogtag or maybe a named corpse, these things can be given to agents as trophy's and the agent could give isk rewards for them.
so it wouldn't be asmuch as the normal npc bountys, but it would be something
(i.e a empire BS *1 mill equivalent* in a pirate faction mission would always drop a named dogtag/corpse in a seperate container, these could be given to any lvl3 or above agent in exchange for about 500-600k isk)
this post was funded by Quafe
now available in minmatar red.
try our new product.
Quafe's caldari version "press missiles 4TW"
limited sales offer before the next universal improvement |
allmus
|
Posted - 2004.12.01 14:07:00 -
[26]
have to agree on the lvl4 drop rates, i get better drop's from 110k bounty cruisers than anything bigger.
best BS drop i got was a dual 425mm autocannon (unnamed) and most of the time i get angel log's or basic nanofibre's if it drop's atall.
about the pirate faction things, i have an idea to solve that problem of no bountys.
like with the last kill's of certain mission, where the last npc drop's 2 can's insead of one, have all the npc faction kill mission rat's drop 1 can always, and in that can have a special type of dogtag or maybe a named corpse, these things can be given to agents as trophy's and the agent could give isk rewards for them.
so it wouldn't be asmuch as the normal npc bountys, but it would be something
(i.e a empire BS *1 mill equivalent* in a pirate faction mission would always drop a named dogtag/corpse in a seperate container, these could be given to any lvl3 or above agent in exchange for about 500-600k isk)
this post was funded by Quafe
now available in minmatar red.
try our new product.
Quafe's caldari version "press missiles 4TW"
limited sales offer before the next universal improvement |
Amthrianius
|
Posted - 2004.12.01 14:11:00 -
[27]
This is because the BS are on a different loot table if you notice if you info the ship it comes up as "Deadspace battleship" Hence why they have the name Corpus and Pith instead of Blood and Guristas etc. This im sure is deliberate so that loot does not become overcommon. Be glad they havent nerfed the loot and quit whining.
---------------
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Amthrianius
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Posted - 2004.12.01 14:11:00 -
[28]
This is because the BS are on a different loot table if you notice if you info the ship it comes up as "Deadspace battleship" Hence why they have the name Corpus and Pith instead of Blood and Guristas etc. This im sure is deliberate so that loot does not become overcommon. Be glad they havent nerfed the loot and quit whining.
---------------
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MrRookie
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Posted - 2004.12.01 14:22:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Amthrianius
This is because the BS are on a different loot table if you notice if you info the ship it comes up as "Deadspace battleship" Hence why they have the name Corpus and Pith instead of Blood and Guristas etc. This im sure is deliberate so that loot does not become overcommon. Be glad they havent nerfed the loot and quit whining.
Stop whine about whiners. This sint a whine and there isnt any loot to nerf. get the picture? There isnt hardly any cans dropping and when they drop they have frig loot etc.
_____________________________________________
\o/
I got a siggy... 
WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877 |
MrRookie
|
Posted - 2004.12.01 14:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Amthrianius
This is because the BS are on a different loot table if you notice if you info the ship it comes up as "Deadspace battleship" Hence why they have the name Corpus and Pith instead of Blood and Guristas etc. This im sure is deliberate so that loot does not become overcommon. Be glad they havent nerfed the loot and quit whining.
Stop whine about whiners. This sint a whine and there isnt any loot to nerf. get the picture? There isnt hardly any cans dropping and when they drop they have frig loot etc.
_____________________________________________
\o/
I got a siggy...
WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877 |
Nikodaemonicus
|
Posted - 2004.12.01 15:31:00 -
[31]
Calm down. All the people saying we whine and/or loot is ok, are just ignorants that have not made a single mission. Maybe 1 or 2. Once you do 10+ missions you notice there is something very wrong and bugged. I agree that empire bs does not have to drop good loot as 0.0 bs do. But not dropping loot at all?? Cruisers drop loot 10x better than a BS. And all cruisers and frigates drop a can. Why 60% of bs do not drop cans? |
Nikodaemonicus
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Posted - 2004.12.01 15:31:00 -
[32]
Calm down. All the people saying we whine and/or loot is ok, are just ignorants that have not made a single mission. Maybe 1 or 2. Once you do 10+ missions you notice there is something very wrong and bugged. I agree that empire bs does not have to drop good loot as 0.0 bs do. But not dropping loot at all?? Cruisers drop loot 10x better than a BS. And all cruisers and frigates drop a can. Why 60% of bs do not drop cans? |
Jadow
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Posted - 2004.12.01 22:49:00 -
[33]
Killed a 12k rat the other day, got a +3 perc implant.
go figure
jadow
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Jadow
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Posted - 2004.12.01 22:49:00 -
[34]
Killed a 12k rat the other day, got a +3 perc implant.
go figure
jadow
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psychonaut
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Posted - 2004.12.02 00:39:00 -
[35]
I agree they shouldnt be as good as 0.0 but.....
30 battleships downed, and the net resulting isk means Id of been better mining scord, with the time its taken me to do this....
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psychonaut
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Posted - 2004.12.02 00:39:00 -
[36]
I agree they shouldnt be as good as 0.0 but.....
30 battleships downed, and the net resulting isk means Id of been better mining scord, with the time its taken me to do this....
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KarateKid
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Posted - 2004.12.02 03:44:00 -
[37]
Originally by: psychonaut
I agree they shouldnt be as good as 0.0 but.....
30 battleships downed, and the net resulting isk means Id of been better mining scord, with the time its taken me to do this....
Difference can't be that much, and besides alot more fun shooting BSs in lvl 4 then mining scord. If you add up the bounties and refine value of loot you get a nice isk/hour ratio 
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KarateKid
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Posted - 2004.12.02 03:44:00 -
[38]
Originally by: psychonaut
I agree they shouldnt be as good as 0.0 but.....
30 battleships downed, and the net resulting isk means Id of been better mining scord, with the time its taken me to do this....
Difference can't be that much, and besides alot more fun shooting BSs in lvl 4 then mining scord. If you add up the bounties and refine value of loot you get a nice isk/hour ratio
|
EB Xile
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 06:54:00 -
[39]
Originally by: KarateKid
Originally by: psychonaut
I agree they shouldnt be as good as 0.0 but.....
30 battleships downed, and the net resulting isk means Id of been better mining scord, with the time its taken me to do this....
Difference can't be that much, and besides alot more fun shooting BSs in lvl 4 then mining scord. If you add up the bounties and refine value of loot you get a nice isk/hour ratio
What loot? You gotta remember here, crap loot=crap refine
_______________________________________________
Don't look at me like that, you knew I was posion when you picked me up! |
EB Xile
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 06:54:00 -
[40]
Originally by: KarateKid
Originally by: psychonaut
I agree they shouldnt be as good as 0.0 but.....
30 battleships downed, and the net resulting isk means Id of been better mining scord, with the time its taken me to do this....
Difference can't be that much, and besides alot more fun shooting BSs in lvl 4 then mining scord. If you add up the bounties and refine value of loot you get a nice isk/hour ratio
What loot? You gotta remember here, crap loot=crap refine
_______________________________________________
Don't look at me like that, you knew I was posion when you picked me up! |
Arthur Guinness
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 07:26:00 -
[41]
It's called balance.
Even non named BS modules that drop have a really high value, you guys underestimate what BS loot recycles into.
You get nice bounties (pirate agent runners don't even get that, so ...).
You have the chance to get the best named loot (non officer) in empire.
And yes Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beams do drop in empire too, just even rarer than in 0.0.
On the other hand, ccp could take away the bounties and give you loot instead....... |
Arthur Guinness
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 07:26:00 -
[42]
It's called balance.
Even non named BS modules that drop have a really high value, you guys underestimate what BS loot recycles into.
You get nice bounties (pirate agent runners don't even get that, so ...).
You have the chance to get the best named loot (non officer) in empire.
And yes Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beams do drop in empire too, just even rarer than in 0.0.
On the other hand, ccp could take away the bounties and give you loot instead....... |
MajorGeneral Ponsonby
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Posted - 2004.12.02 08:37:00 -
[43]
Screw the bounties! Give us loot! Nothing more disappointing than dropping a 1m bs rat and getting nothing in the can, I mean not even the chance for something.
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MajorGeneral Ponsonby
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Posted - 2004.12.02 08:37:00 -
[44]
Screw the bounties! Give us loot! Nothing more disappointing than dropping a 1m bs rat and getting nothing in the can, I mean not even the chance for something.
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Nikodaemonicus
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Posted - 2004.12.02 14:32:00 -
[45]
OKTHXBYE!
 |
Nikodaemonicus
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Posted - 2004.12.02 14:32:00 -
[46]
OKTHXBYE!
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Faster ThanJesus
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Posted - 2004.12.02 14:53:00 -
[47]
The problem as I see it is the low frequency of any drops and then the high proportion of the drops being basic equipment. Battleships shouldn't have an average drop comparable to mid range cruiser.
The 00 missions and pirate factions currently seem a bit fubar, but they should be getting higher rewards. The ID tags should rectify this, in conjunction with better drops.
So, it would be better if empire battleships had the same drop rate as any other ships, and class based drops, but have a very low ratio of named drops. Increase the possibility of good drops in .4-.1 and increase again in 0.0.
I don't mind going out of my way to pick up a bs can that's dropped a dual 250mm (stock) and a large shield booster (stock) because of the refining possibilities. What does annoy me is going out of my to get a can, on the rare occasions they drop, to get a basic internal nanofibre. Using this system should also give a fair few dog tags, and looking at even the low end agent offers, this would be handy.
My guess is that all this is in the process of being observed and awaiting tweaking anyway. So atm, it's probably not worth worrying about.
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Faster ThanJesus
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Posted - 2004.12.02 14:53:00 -
[48]
The problem as I see it is the low frequency of any drops and then the high proportion of the drops being basic equipment. Battleships shouldn't have an average drop comparable to mid range cruiser.
The 00 missions and pirate factions currently seem a bit fubar, but they should be getting higher rewards. The ID tags should rectify this, in conjunction with better drops.
So, it would be better if empire battleships had the same drop rate as any other ships, and class based drops, but have a very low ratio of named drops. Increase the possibility of good drops in .4-.1 and increase again in 0.0.
I don't mind going out of my way to pick up a bs can that's dropped a dual 250mm (stock) and a large shield booster (stock) because of the refining possibilities. What does annoy me is going out of my to get a can, on the rare occasions they drop, to get a basic internal nanofibre. Using this system should also give a fair few dog tags, and looking at even the low end agent offers, this would be handy.
My guess is that all this is in the process of being observed and awaiting tweaking anyway. So atm, it's probably not worth worrying about.
|
Lorth
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 16:11:00 -
[49]
Well I'm going to have to say that I think there should be very poor loot from BS's in empire.
While I'm sure I'll get flamed for this let me explain.
I feel that the safty of being in empire and the easy acess mission give to BS's means that all 'bounty hunters' in 0.0 are more or less screwed. Why would you hunt in 0.0 if you can find just as many BS's in empire, with no player risk, only the risk form the spawn. Not to mention that loot is selling for a lot less then it once was. Adding more loot from missions certainly isn't going to help.
The whole point of the expansion is to get players out of empire. Not to bring more players back in. I like the new system. If I want missions, I'll go into empire. If I want good loot I'll go out to 0.0.
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Lorth
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Posted - 2004.12.02 16:11:00 -
[50]
Well I'm going to have to say that I think there should be very poor loot from BS's in empire.
While I'm sure I'll get flamed for this let me explain.
I feel that the safty of being in empire and the easy acess mission give to BS's means that all 'bounty hunters' in 0.0 are more or less screwed. Why would you hunt in 0.0 if you can find just as many BS's in empire, with no player risk, only the risk form the spawn. Not to mention that loot is selling for a lot less then it once was. Adding more loot from missions certainly isn't going to help.
The whole point of the expansion is to get players out of empire. Not to bring more players back in. I like the new system. If I want missions, I'll go into empire. If I want good loot I'll go out to 0.0.
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MatStar
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:15:00 -
[51]
considering every alliance space is closed now coz everyones busy beating the crap outta each other not every1 can get into 0.0 to hunt bs's....
the stupidist thing is the bs drop practically no tags, ive killed alotta bs on lvl4 kill and ive got like 1 tag from the lot......
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MatStar
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:15:00 -
[52]
considering every alliance space is closed now coz everyones busy beating the crap outta each other not every1 can get into 0.0 to hunt bs's....
the stupidist thing is the bs drop practically no tags, ive killed alotta bs on lvl4 kill and ive got like 1 tag from the lot......
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MajorGeneral Ponsonby
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Posted - 2004.12.02 19:04:00 -
[53]
Lorth you kinda didnt mention that you can nail commanders and officers in 0.0, who give crazy value of drops, especially the officers. Not to mention the rare ore in 0.0 which should be the main reason to go there.
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MajorGeneral Ponsonby
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Posted - 2004.12.02 19:04:00 -
[54]
Lorth you kinda didnt mention that you can nail commanders and officers in 0.0, who give crazy value of drops, especially the officers. Not to mention the rare ore in 0.0 which should be the main reason to go there.
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Arthur Guinness
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 22:07:00 -
[55]
Originally by: MajorGeneral Ponsonby
Lorth you kinda didnt mention that you can nail commanders and officers in 0.0, who give crazy value of drops, especially the officers. Not to mention the rare ore in 0.0 which should be the main reason to go there.
1) npc hunter don't care about ore
2) commanders are bit rare, and they don't even always drop faction loot
3) officers are ³ber rare, i never heard of bad loot of those tough
in 0.0 you risk pvp. in empire you don't.
So i think Lorth is spot on.
But ofc, i can always pick the best stuff of 0.0 and compare to the worst stuff of empire and vice versa. |
Arthur Guinness
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 22:07:00 -
[56]
Originally by: MajorGeneral Ponsonby
Lorth you kinda didnt mention that you can nail commanders and officers in 0.0, who give crazy value of drops, especially the officers. Not to mention the rare ore in 0.0 which should be the main reason to go there.
1) npc hunter don't care about ore
2) commanders are bit rare, and they don't even always drop faction loot
3) officers are ³ber rare, i never heard of bad loot of those tough
in 0.0 you risk pvp. in empire you don't.
So i think Lorth is spot on.
But ofc, i can always pick the best stuff of 0.0 and compare to the worst stuff of empire and vice versa. |
Nikodaemonicus
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 00:25:00 -
[57]
Who don't know the fustration of not getting a can after killing a bs? After spending a bit more time than killing anything else? I prefer no bounty than not getting a can. It's like visiting a Casino, you don't know if you will return to home richer or more poor, but you feel different when you are infront of that ball...red? black.
At least let them drop a can, I don't care what's inside, but let them drops cans. |
Nikodaemonicus
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 00:25:00 -
[58]
Who don't know the fustration of not getting a can after killing a bs? After spending a bit more time than killing anything else? I prefer no bounty than not getting a can. It's like visiting a Casino, you don't know if you will return to home richer or more poor, but you feel different when you are infront of that ball...red? black.
At least let them drop a can, I don't care what's inside, but let them drops cans. |
Slithereen
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 01:35:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Slithereen on 03/12/2004 01:39:21
Here are my few cents.
This is not an easy issue in more ways than one.
Right now, PvP or no PvP, the risk ratio on L4 missions is not right, because the bottomline remains that you can easily lose your BS. Many of the L4 mission spanws are not your typical 0.0 belt spawn---they are much more akin to the killer spawns that appeared shortly after the Castor patch last yesr---and which people complained in droves. They are supported by NPC inties while your weapon tracking isn't too good. They come in multiple waves. If you're not too careful, they will spawn on top of you. And you are fighting against ships that you don't see in 0.0 space like faction navies themselves, who often bring their own T2 specials.
Right now with deadspace missions offline, some of the missions are soloable, but not if you meet a blockade, Mordus, supply line. If you join with a group, your risks are lower but so will your bounties. Right now, gang with L4 mission generates less ISK per hour than soloing L3 missions.
On the other hand, if full loot is allowed on these missions, not only will the 0.0 bounty hunter market collapse, but the Empire production economy can seriously be affected. Because they are capable of producing TONS and TONS of loot that can swamp the producers.
I have ultimate faith that CCP will decide the right thing. I do suggest this.
Keep the current loot drop rate, but add the following such as refinable Precious and Scrap metal drops like you see with Rogue drones. This is part of keeping with the realistic immersion that whatever you destroy, there will always be some piece of stuff that you can salvage that can be useful. If you can't get decent loot drops, at least some scrap metal that you can refine.
I don't believe that such metal drops would affect the mining industry. Minerals are always in demand, and yet the game should wean players away from spending too much time mining and more time having fun, and the developments have always been consistent with this theme.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
|
Slithereen
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 01:35:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Slithereen on 03/12/2004 01:39:21
Here are my few cents.
This is not an easy issue in more ways than one.
Right now, PvP or no PvP, the risk ratio on L4 missions is not right, because the bottomline remains that you can easily lose your BS. Many of the L4 mission spanws are not your typical 0.0 belt spawn---they are much more akin to the killer spawns that appeared shortly after the Castor patch last yesr---and which people complained in droves. They are supported by NPC inties while your weapon tracking isn't too good. They come in multiple waves. If you're not too careful, they will spawn on top of you. And you are fighting against ships that you don't see in 0.0 space like faction navies themselves, who often bring their own T2 specials.
Right now with deadspace missions offline, some of the missions are soloable, but not if you meet a blockade, Mordus, supply line. If you join with a group, your risks are lower but so will your bounties. Right now, gang with L4 mission generates less ISK per hour than soloing L3 missions.
On the other hand, if full loot is allowed on these missions, not only will the 0.0 bounty hunter market collapse, but the Empire production economy can seriously be affected. Because they are capable of producing TONS and TONS of loot that can swamp the producers.
I have ultimate faith that CCP will decide the right thing. I do suggest this.
Keep the current loot drop rate, but add the following such as refinable Precious and Scrap metal drops like you see with Rogue drones. This is part of keeping with the realistic immersion that whatever you destroy, there will always be some piece of stuff that you can salvage that can be useful. If you can't get decent loot drops, at least some scrap metal that you can refine.
I don't believe that such metal drops would affect the mining industry. Minerals are always in demand, and yet the game should wean players away from spending too much time mining and more time having fun, and the developments have always been consistent with this theme.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
|
MajorGeneral Ponsonby
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 08:53:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Arthur Guinness
Originally by: MajorGeneral Ponsonby
Lorth you kinda didnt mention that you can nail commanders and officers in 0.0, who give crazy value of drops, especially the officers. Not to mention the rare ore in 0.0 which should be the main reason to go there.
1) npc hunter don't care about ore
2) commanders are bit rare, and they don't even always drop faction loot
3) officers are ³ber rare, i never heard of bad loot of those tough
in 0.0 you risk pvp. in empire you don't.
So i think Lorth is spot on.
But ofc, i can always pick the best stuff of 0.0 and compare to the worst stuff of empire and vice versa.
Nobody wants nerf 0.0 super loot. But level 4 loot like this is totally unacceptable.
And basically the arguement is like this anyway: 0.0 hunters dont want mission runners to get good loot. And mission runners want better than a 10mn ab from a battleship can.
|
MajorGeneral Ponsonby
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 08:53:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Arthur Guinness
Originally by: MajorGeneral Ponsonby
Lorth you kinda didnt mention that you can nail commanders and officers in 0.0, who give crazy value of drops, especially the officers. Not to mention the rare ore in 0.0 which should be the main reason to go there.
1) npc hunter don't care about ore
2) commanders are bit rare, and they don't even always drop faction loot
3) officers are ³ber rare, i never heard of bad loot of those tough
in 0.0 you risk pvp. in empire you don't.
So i think Lorth is spot on.
But ofc, i can always pick the best stuff of 0.0 and compare to the worst stuff of empire and vice versa.
Nobody wants nerf 0.0 super loot. But level 4 loot like this is totally unacceptable.
And basically the arguement is like this anyway: 0.0 hunters dont want mission runners to get good loot. And mission runners want better than a 10mn ab from a battleship can.
|
Reite
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 10:02:00 -
[63]
Originally by: MajorGeneral Ponsonby
Lorth you kinda didnt mention that you can nail commanders and officers in 0.0, who give crazy value of drops, especially the officers. Not to mention the rare ore in 0.0 which should be the main reason to go there.
hah!
My sec rating is about 4.7 now. All from npc hunting in 0.0 space.
Wanna know how many officers and commanders ive met? None.
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Reite
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 10:02:00 -
[64]
Originally by: MajorGeneral Ponsonby
Lorth you kinda didnt mention that you can nail commanders and officers in 0.0, who give crazy value of drops, especially the officers. Not to mention the rare ore in 0.0 which should be the main reason to go there.
hah!
My sec rating is about 4.7 now. All from npc hunting in 0.0 space.
Wanna know how many officers and commanders ive met? None.
|
Arthur Guinness
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 11:39:00 -
[65]
Originally by: MajorGeneral Ponsonby
Originally by: Arthur Guinness
Originally by: MajorGeneral Ponsonby
Lorth you kinda didnt mention that you can nail commanders and officers in 0.0, who give crazy value of drops, especially the officers. Not to mention the rare ore in 0.0 which should be the main reason to go there.
1) npc hunter don't care about ore
2) commanders are bit rare, and they don't even always drop faction loot
3) officers are ³ber rare, i never heard of bad loot of those tough
in 0.0 you risk pvp. in empire you don't.
So i think Lorth is spot on.
But ofc, i can always pick the best stuff of 0.0 and compare to the worst stuff of empire and vice versa.
Nobody wants nerf 0.0 super loot. But level 4 loot like this is totally unacceptable.
And basically the arguement is like this anyway: 0.0 hunters dont want mission runners to get good loot. And mission runners want better than a 10mn ab from a battleship can.
You don't get it do you?
The loot might be crap, but you get high county npc battleships in empire.
The loot is crap to balance risk vs reward. And you can get the best non faction items in empire too. So it's just your chance of getting something is way lower.
As for them not dropping normal unnamed loot.... you can easily build a bs from about ~200bs cans. The minerals you'd get would increase your income a lot.
So no cans = balance your income vs the risk.
CCP are gathering data btw and will adjust it if _THEY_ see that something needs to be done. |
Arthur Guinness
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 11:39:00 -
[66]
Originally by: MajorGeneral Ponsonby
Originally by: Arthur Guinness
Originally by: MajorGeneral Ponsonby
Lorth you kinda didnt mention that you can nail commanders and officers in 0.0, who give crazy value of drops, especially the officers. Not to mention the rare ore in 0.0 which should be the main reason to go there.
1) npc hunter don't care about ore
2) commanders are bit rare, and they don't even always drop faction loot
3) officers are ³ber rare, i never heard of bad loot of those tough
in 0.0 you risk pvp. in empire you don't.
So i think Lorth is spot on.
But ofc, i can always pick the best stuff of 0.0 and compare to the worst stuff of empire and vice versa.
Nobody wants nerf 0.0 super loot. But level 4 loot like this is totally unacceptable.
And basically the arguement is like this anyway: 0.0 hunters dont want mission runners to get good loot. And mission runners want better than a 10mn ab from a battleship can.
You don't get it do you?
The loot might be crap, but you get high county npc battleships in empire.
The loot is crap to balance risk vs reward. And you can get the best non faction items in empire too. So it's just your chance of getting something is way lower.
As for them not dropping normal unnamed loot.... you can easily build a bs from about ~200bs cans. The minerals you'd get would increase your income a lot.
So no cans = balance your income vs the risk.
CCP are gathering data btw and will adjust it if _THEY_ see that something needs to be done. |
capt
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 12:25:00 -
[67]
aaaaaaah the never ending story of RISK vs REWARD.
No matter how you word it though, what your actually saying comes always down to this :
You don't want empire mission runners to get any worthwhile item dropped from mission rats, be it BS rats or other.
The same goes now for all the whining bout ice not being available for mining in 0.0. *sigh*
You cant have it all...... there will always be a difference and both groups will always be dependant of eachother no matter how hard you whine.....
I think I'm gonna find me a good piece of chees now to go with all that whine.......
|
capt
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 12:25:00 -
[68]
aaaaaaah the never ending story of RISK vs REWARD.
No matter how you word it though, what your actually saying comes always down to this :
You don't want empire mission runners to get any worthwhile item dropped from mission rats, be it BS rats or other.
The same goes now for all the whining bout ice not being available for mining in 0.0. *sigh*
You cant have it all...... there will always be a difference and both groups will always be dependant of eachother no matter how hard you whine.....
I think I'm gonna find me a good piece of chees now to go with all that whine.......
|
capt
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 12:31:00 -
[69]
Edited by: capt on 03/12/2004 12:34:43
Originally by: Arthur Guinness
It's called balance.
You get nice bounties (pirate agent runners don't even get that, so ...).
On the other hand, ccp could take away the bounties and give you loot instead.......
I think your over rating the bounty aspect a bit here.
Maybe it's a bug or something but since Exodus, almost 80% of my mission rats consist of Ammatar and ammar ships. So no bounty but only dogtags on those.... (and that's deep empire space)
And yeah, were not (or better I'm not) shouting for ³ber loot for the BS I shoot down in empire, but you have to admit that no cans at all or just a measly medium xray cristal dropping from a BS is just pathetic.......
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capt
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 12:31:00 -
[70]
Edited by: capt on 03/12/2004 12:34:43
Originally by: Arthur Guinness
It's called balance.
You get nice bounties (pirate agent runners don't even get that, so ...).
On the other hand, ccp could take away the bounties and give you loot instead.......
I think your over rating the bounty aspect a bit here.
Maybe it's a bug or something but since Exodus, almost 80% of my mission rats consist of Ammatar and ammar ships. So no bounty but only dogtags on those.... (and that's deep empire space)
And yeah, were not (or better I'm not) shouting for ³ber loot for the BS I shoot down in empire, but you have to admit that no cans at all or just a measly medium xray cristal dropping from a BS is just pathetic.......
|
MajorGeneral Ponsonby
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 12:41:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Arthur Guinness
You don't get it do you?
The loot might be crap, but you get high county npc battleships in empire.
The loot is crap to balance risk vs reward. And you can get the best non faction items in empire too. So it's just your chance of getting something is way lower.
As for them not dropping normal unnamed loot.... you can easily build a bs from about ~200bs cans. The minerals you'd get would increase your income a lot.
So no cans = balance your income vs the risk.
CCP are gathering data btw and will adjust it if _THEY_ see that something needs to be done.
Dont gimme this crap, you dont get it!! The point is that you got all the good stuff in 0.0. Easy battleship spawns with good loot, super commander and officer loot. Rare minerals, POS, did I miss something?
Just admit that you don't want PVE people to gain anything, just admit that you want to see us non alliance people screwed.
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MajorGeneral Ponsonby
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 12:41:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Arthur Guinness
You don't get it do you?
The loot might be crap, but you get high county npc battleships in empire.
The loot is crap to balance risk vs reward. And you can get the best non faction items in empire too. So it's just your chance of getting something is way lower.
As for them not dropping normal unnamed loot.... you can easily build a bs from about ~200bs cans. The minerals you'd get would increase your income a lot.
So no cans = balance your income vs the risk.
CCP are gathering data btw and will adjust it if _THEY_ see that something needs to be done.
Dont gimme this crap, you dont get it!! The point is that you got all the good stuff in 0.0. Easy battleship spawns with good loot, super commander and officer loot. Rare minerals, POS, did I miss something?
Just admit that you don't want PVE people to gain anything, just admit that you want to see us non alliance people screwed.
|
DizzixX
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 16:51:00 -
[73]
I think that i dont car whether or not the loot is rare but i think that it should be consistent and fitting for the rat, so if youu blow up a frig that uses lasers , you get small laser turrets or small frequency crystals, as well as other small rare items. Or if you kill a BS that is torpedoing you or shooting at you with a 425mm then they should drop that or the ammo for it, simmilar to the system used to determine loot drops for players.
An aknowledged problem with this system is that the value of large loot would further drop in value devalueing all the different loot, leaving only rare items to be worth anything at all.
Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Arch Templar, wrecking for 447.5 damage.
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DizzixX
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 16:51:00 -
[74]
I think that i dont car whether or not the loot is rare but i think that it should be consistent and fitting for the rat, so if youu blow up a frig that uses lasers , you get small laser turrets or small frequency crystals, as well as other small rare items. Or if you kill a BS that is torpedoing you or shooting at you with a 425mm then they should drop that or the ammo for it, simmilar to the system used to determine loot drops for players.
An aknowledged problem with this system is that the value of large loot would further drop in value devalueing all the different loot, leaving only rare items to be worth anything at all.
Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Arch Templar, wrecking for 447.5 damage.
|
geeker
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 19:44:00 -
[75]
Quote:
I think that i dont car whether or not the loot is rare but i think that it should be consistent and fitting for the rat, so if youu blow up a frig that uses lasers , you get small laser turrets or small frequency crystals, as well as other small rare items. Or if you kill a BS that is torpedoing you or shooting at you with a 425mm then they should drop that or the ammo for it, simmilar to the system used to determine loot drops for players.
It should be:
Bounty from agent rat spawn + loot value + agent pay = bounty from rat spawn + loot value
Yes, I do agree that people who make the effort go out to 0.0 to bag a BS rat deserve extra loot. However, it is harder for players not part of the right alliance/corp/whatever to get into relativly 'safe' (i.e. non pvp) 0.0 systems.
Maybe there should be some sort of comprimise, at the end of the day, loot = isk to some degree, whether it is refined or sold on the market.
Also, I agree that loot should be 'fitting' to the rat that you kill. I have killed guristas rats that use railguns, but have dropped crystals .
Personally, I've had some good loot, like implants from 10k rats, and s**t loot, like small hybrid ammo from cruiser rats.
Looking at the profit vs cost ratio, I'd say hunting anything; using sensible ammo, is profitable.
If you get useless loot, refine it, sell it, or give it to your corp noob (I kitted out my first cruiser from cast-offs  ).
--
geeker
United Freedom Alliance will build and kit out your ship for very reasonable prices. Join the 'UFA' channel ingame for info. |
geeker
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 19:44:00 -
[76]
Quote:
I think that i dont car whether or not the loot is rare but i think that it should be consistent and fitting for the rat, so if youu blow up a frig that uses lasers , you get small laser turrets or small frequency crystals, as well as other small rare items. Or if you kill a BS that is torpedoing you or shooting at you with a 425mm then they should drop that or the ammo for it, simmilar to the system used to determine loot drops for players.
It should be:
Bounty from agent rat spawn + loot value + agent pay = bounty from rat spawn + loot value
Yes, I do agree that people who make the effort go out to 0.0 to bag a BS rat deserve extra loot. However, it is harder for players not part of the right alliance/corp/whatever to get into relativly 'safe' (i.e. non pvp) 0.0 systems.
Maybe there should be some sort of comprimise, at the end of the day, loot = isk to some degree, whether it is refined or sold on the market.
Also, I agree that loot should be 'fitting' to the rat that you kill. I have killed guristas rats that use railguns, but have dropped crystals .
Personally, I've had some good loot, like implants from 10k rats, and s**t loot, like small hybrid ammo from cruiser rats.
Looking at the profit vs cost ratio, I'd say hunting anything; using sensible ammo, is profitable.
If you get useless loot, refine it, sell it, or give it to your corp noob (I kitted out my first cruiser from cast-offs ).
--
geeker
United Freedom Alliance will build and kit out your ship for very reasonable prices. Join the 'UFA' channel ingame for info. |
Fire Hawk
|
Posted - 2004.12.04 01:37:00 -
[77]
I can remember one time i get a small shield booster from a 1Mil BS rat... was a good laugh tho
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Fire Hawk
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Posted - 2004.12.04 01:37:00 -
[78]
I can remember one time i get a small shield booster from a 1Mil BS rat... was a good laugh tho
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Valan
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Posted - 2004.12.04 01:55:00 -
[79]
Not sure about the loot. If empire missions drop too many rare items the market will bottom out and it'll hit the BS hunters in 0.0.
However, the L4 missions are a waste of time other than for fun. Most need multiple players, hence the rewards need to be split. Some can be soloed but it takes forever. I've dropped L4s because I can earn more from L3s. I team up occasionally for fun. Then go back to L3 to earn money.
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Valan
|
Posted - 2004.12.04 01:55:00 -
[80]
Not sure about the loot. If empire missions drop too many rare items the market will bottom out and it'll hit the BS hunters in 0.0.
However, the L4 missions are a waste of time other than for fun. Most need multiple players, hence the rewards need to be split. Some can be soloed but it takes forever. I've dropped L4s because I can earn more from L3s. I team up occasionally for fun. Then go back to L3 to earn money.
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