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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.11.30 01:31:00 -
[1]
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 01/12/2004 20:59:48
Broker Relations
 Quote:
Proficiency at driving down market-related costs. Each level of skill grants a 5% reduction in the costs associated with setting up a market order, which usually come to 1% of the orderÆs total value. This can be further influenced by the playerÆs standing towards the owner of the station where the order is entered.
CCP ... 'investigated & resolved' (regarding the BOLD bit) 
Accounting
Quote:
Proficiency at squaring away the odds and ends of business transactions, keeping the check books tight. Each level of skill reduces transaction tax by 10%.
CCP ... What 'transaction tax' 
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.11.30 01:31:00 -
[2]
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 01/12/2004 20:59:48
Broker Relations
Quote:
Proficiency at driving down market-related costs. Each level of skill grants a 5% reduction in the costs associated with setting up a market order, which usually come to 1% of the orderÆs total value. This can be further influenced by the playerÆs standing towards the owner of the station where the order is entered.
CCP ... 'investigated & resolved' (regarding the BOLD bit)
Accounting
Quote:
Proficiency at squaring away the odds and ends of business transactions, keeping the check books tight. Each level of skill reduces transaction tax by 10%.
CCP ... What 'transaction tax'
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.11.30 01:48:00 -
[3]
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 30/11/2004 01:51:44
Hmm ...
Quote:
BTW The broker fee you're quoted when placing the order may not be correct. It only takes into account the Broker skill level when it's calculated. If you have a positive standing, the actual fee will be less. (I'm not sure how a low standing would affect it, but my guess is a higher fee.) You'll have to check your journal and do the math yourself to figure out what your real percentage is.
So that takes care of Broker Relations ... 
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.11.30 01:48:00 -
[4]
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 30/11/2004 01:51:44
Hmm ...
Quote:
BTW The broker fee you're quoted when placing the order may not be correct. It only takes into account the Broker skill level when it's calculated. If you have a positive standing, the actual fee will be less. (I'm not sure how a low standing would affect it, but my guess is a higher fee.) You'll have to check your journal and do the math yourself to figure out what your real percentage is.
So that takes care of Broker Relations ...
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2004.11.30 13:13:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jim Steele on 30/11/2004 13:17:21
broker fee  this is for buy orders i believe, when you set one up you have to have the money inplace which gets put in a pot until the sale goes through, the skill reduces the ammount that needs to be paid 'upfront'
transaction tax when you sell stuff 10% of the sell order gets 'lost' in transaction tax, check your journals no tax for buying stuff only selling.
Death to the Galante |
Jim Steele
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Posted - 2004.11.30 13:13:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Jim Steele on 30/11/2004 13:17:21
broker fee this is for buy orders i believe, when you set one up you have to have the money inplace which gets put in a pot until the sale goes through, the skill reduces the ammount that needs to be paid 'upfront'
transaction tax when you sell stuff 10% of the sell order gets 'lost' in transaction tax, check your journals no tax for buying stuff only selling.
Death to the Galante |
Koomi
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Posted - 2004.11.30 14:25:00 -
[7]
I'm not sure if any skills came into play, but upon placing a sell order the old system used to take a tax on each item you sold, so you got less in your pocket than what the buyer paid, now you pay all the tax up front, but every single isk will be paid to you per sale.
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Koomi
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Posted - 2004.11.30 14:25:00 -
[8]
I'm not sure if any skills came into play, but upon placing a sell order the old system used to take a tax on each item you sold, so you got less in your pocket than what the buyer paid, now you pay all the tax up front, but every single isk will be paid to you per sale.
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.11.30 23:42:00 -
[9]
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 30/11/2004 23:47:07
Jim Steele: You are confusing Market Trading with Broker Relations.
Koomi: Yes I know we paid tax before but I haven't paid a single ISK of tax in Exodus - hence the concern that all my training in ACCOUNTING has been either completely wasted or at best premature ...
MOOrovingian  "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.11.30 23:42:00 -
[10]
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 30/11/2004 23:47:07
Jim Steele: You are confusing Market Trading with Broker Relations.
Koomi: Yes I know we paid tax before but I haven't paid a single ISK of tax in Exodus - hence the concern that all my training in ACCOUNTING has been either completely wasted or at best premature ...
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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MachineMk2
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Posted - 2004.12.01 07:29:00 -
[11]
I haven't been convinced any of these marketing skills are a good idea.
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MachineMk2
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Posted - 2004.12.01 07:29:00 -
[12]
I haven't been convinced any of these marketing skills are a good idea.
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Bellac
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Posted - 2004.12.01 13:37:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Bellac on 01/12/2004 15:06:56
Broker fee is exactly right. That is the fee you pay when setting up a sell order. The figure quoted on the trade window doesnt include any and corp standing so isnt the actual figure you pay (Check the journal entry). It also seems that faction standing has no effect.
Margin trading is the skill associated with setting up buy orders. Each buy order requires you to pay in full up front, even if the order is not filled. This payment is reduced by 25% for each level of margin trading. hence the reducing the risk bit.
Hmmm - Accounting ....
Well to be honest i might have never noticed myself, but you are right i think. Accounting seems to be doing nothing atm as there is no transaction tax. unless there is no further reduction on the broker fee based upon corp standing insted.
I have broker relations lvl 3 and i pay 0.85% order value in broker fee. When i look at the journal there is a difference between the value i pay and the value quoted on the sales set up page. Is this due to extra standings with the corp, or is this the transaction tax. I think its fair to say one or the other of these payments are not working correctly. I think some clarification would help on this matter, as the sum payed out in broker fees will soon be topping 1 mill isk 
edit:
well i thought i was beginning to understand it - but i am going to have to keep a closer eye on what i am paying. I have broker relations lvl3 accounting lvl3.
I just created a sell order for 33 mill - broker fee 280500 isk = 0.85% of total so no corp bonuses - corp standing 1.21 - faction standing 6.99
Yesterday created sell order for 11 mill - broker fee 49384.42 isk which is not 0.85% of total - but this was with the same corp at the same station.
2 days ago set up a sell order for 27 mill - broker fee 92015.92 isk which again is not 0.85% but this was with a corp that i have a standing of 8.18 so this may account for this value.
I think it may be a little premature to try and work out what you should be paying as IMHO it seems bugged. Hopefully this latest patch will fix the problem
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Bellac
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Posted - 2004.12.01 13:37:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Bellac on 01/12/2004 15:06:56
Broker fee is exactly right. That is the fee you pay when setting up a sell order. The figure quoted on the trade window doesnt include any and corp standing so isnt the actual figure you pay (Check the journal entry). It also seems that faction standing has no effect.
Margin trading is the skill associated with setting up buy orders. Each buy order requires you to pay in full up front, even if the order is not filled. This payment is reduced by 25% for each level of margin trading. hence the reducing the risk bit.
Hmmm - Accounting ....
Well to be honest i might have never noticed myself, but you are right i think. Accounting seems to be doing nothing atm as there is no transaction tax. unless there is no further reduction on the broker fee based upon corp standing insted.
I have broker relations lvl 3 and i pay 0.85% order value in broker fee. When i look at the journal there is a difference between the value i pay and the value quoted on the sales set up page. Is this due to extra standings with the corp, or is this the transaction tax. I think its fair to say one or the other of these payments are not working correctly. I think some clarification would help on this matter, as the sum payed out in broker fees will soon be topping 1 mill isk
edit:
well i thought i was beginning to understand it - but i am going to have to keep a closer eye on what i am paying. I have broker relations lvl3 accounting lvl3.
I just created a sell order for 33 mill - broker fee 280500 isk = 0.85% of total so no corp bonuses - corp standing 1.21 - faction standing 6.99
Yesterday created sell order for 11 mill - broker fee 49384.42 isk which is not 0.85% of total - but this was with the same corp at the same station.
2 days ago set up a sell order for 27 mill - broker fee 92015.92 isk which again is not 0.85% but this was with a corp that i have a standing of 8.18 so this may account for this value.
I think it may be a little premature to try and work out what you should be paying as IMHO it seems bugged. Hopefully this latest patch will fix the problem
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.12.01 20:54:00 -
[15]
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 01/12/2004 21:46:12
Next up is Margin Trading
Quote:
Ability to make potentially risky investments work in your favor. Each level of skill reduces the percentage of ISK placed in market escrow when entering buy orders. Starting with an escrow percentage of 100% at Level 1, each skill level cumulatively reduces the
percentage by 25%.
I have it trained to Level 5 yet on a 52,102,805.01 ISK Buy Order I placed earlier today my Wallet/Journal is displaying an Escrow amount of 12,364,239.86 ISK.
/me is so pleased about this as WTF was the point of training it all the way up if there's no benefit 
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.12.01 20:54:00 -
[16]
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 01/12/2004 21:46:12
Next up is Margin Trading
Quote:
Ability to make potentially risky investments work in your favor. Each level of skill reduces the percentage of ISK placed in market escrow when entering buy orders. Starting with an escrow percentage of 100% at Level 1, each skill level cumulatively reduces the
percentage by 25%.
I have it trained to Level 5 yet on a 52,102,805.01 ISK Buy Order I placed earlier today my Wallet/Journal is displaying an Escrow amount of 12,364,239.86 ISK.
/me is so pleased about this as WTF was the point of training it all the way up if there's no benefit
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Lacero Callrisian
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Posted - 2004.12.01 22:31:00 -
[17]
MOO, those of use half way through level 5 Margin Trading thank you for your sacrifice :(
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Lacero Callrisian
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Posted - 2004.12.01 22:31:00 -
[18]
MOO, those of use half way through level 5 Margin Trading thank you for your sacrifice :(
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.12.01 22:39:00 -
[19]
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 02/12/2004 09:30:45
*EDIT: I AM AN IDIOT !! PLEASE DISREGARD THIS PARTICULAR POST *
Lacero Callrisian: It gets worse I'm afraid ... After extensive wallet verification it now appears that although I was deducted an Escrow amount of 12,364,239.86 ISK these funds were all used up purchasing items that in total had a value of 11,748,595.10 ISK ...
So thankyou CCP, and LeKjart in particular I imagine, for deceiving the playerbase yet again.
Oh and if I Petition will I receive my lost 600,000 ISK (approx.) ??
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.12.01 22:39:00 -
[20]
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 02/12/2004 09:30:45
*EDIT: I AM AN IDIOT !! PLEASE DISREGARD THIS PARTICULAR POST *
Lacero Callrisian: It gets worse I'm afraid ... After extensive wallet verification it now appears that although I was deducted an Escrow amount of 12,364,239.86 ISK these funds were all used up purchasing items that in total had a value of 11,748,595.10 ISK ...
So thankyou CCP, and LeKjart in particular I imagine, for deceiving the playerbase yet again.
Oh and if I Petition will I receive my lost 600,000 ISK (approx.) ??
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Commander Flopsy
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Posted - 2004.12.01 23:38:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Commander Flopsy on 01/12/2004 23:41:43
There appears to be an error in the implementation of Margin Trading, so that it reduces the amount placed in Escrow by 25% per level cumulatively - therefore at level 5, your escrow amount is 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 = 0.2373 of the total order.
Which if you do the maths on your buy order, is exactly right.
Not that is quite what the description says, though.
On my personal tests, the escrow amount is always used up entirely first. So if 11M odd of your order has been fulfilled, then nothing would have come out of your wallet for it, but the escrow amount would have dropped.
When the rest of your order is fulfilled, it starts taking money from your wallet when it needs to. When you cancel the order, any outstanding escrow amount is returned.
--
There is no SoonÖ |
Commander Flopsy
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Posted - 2004.12.01 23:38:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Commander Flopsy on 01/12/2004 23:41:43
There appears to be an error in the implementation of Margin Trading, so that it reduces the amount placed in Escrow by 25% per level cumulatively - therefore at level 5, your escrow amount is 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 = 0.2373 of the total order.
Which if you do the maths on your buy order, is exactly right.
Not that is quite what the description says, though.
On my personal tests, the escrow amount is always used up entirely first. So if 11M odd of your order has been fulfilled, then nothing would have come out of your wallet for it, but the escrow amount would have dropped.
When the rest of your order is fulfilled, it starts taking money from your wallet when it needs to. When you cancel the order, any outstanding escrow amount is returned.
--
There is no SoonÖ |
Feronia
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Posted - 2004.12.02 08:28:00 -
[23]
For those interested in the new trade skills and remote orders, I have tried to explain them here.
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Feronia
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Posted - 2004.12.02 08:28:00 -
[24]
For those interested in the new trade skills and remote orders, I have tried to explain them here.
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.12.02 09:00:00 -
[25]
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 02/12/2004 09:39:21
Quote:
There appears to be an error in the implementation of Margin Trading, so that it reduces the amount placed in Escrow by 25% per level cumulatively - therefore at level 5, your escrow amount is 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 = 0.2373 of the total order.
Yes that is how it appears to be.
Quote:
On my personal tests, the escrow amount is always used up entirely first. So if 11M odd of your order has been fulfilled, then nothing would have come out of your wallet for it, but the escrow amount would have dropped.
But ISK has come out of my wallet - that's the point !!
*EDIT: After further investigation in the cold light of day & whilst wide awake it appears I was mistaken. Therefore on this occassion I apologise to CCP & LeKjart as despite the misleading description Margin Trading is working fine.
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.12.02 09:00:00 -
[26]
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 02/12/2004 09:39:21
Quote:
There appears to be an error in the implementation of Margin Trading, so that it reduces the amount placed in Escrow by 25% per level cumulatively - therefore at level 5, your escrow amount is 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 = 0.2373 of the total order.
Yes that is how it appears to be.
Quote:
On my personal tests, the escrow amount is always used up entirely first. So if 11M odd of your order has been fulfilled, then nothing would have come out of your wallet for it, but the escrow amount would have dropped.
But ISK has come out of my wallet - that's the point !!
*EDIT: After further investigation in the cold light of day & whilst wide awake it appears I was mistaken. Therefore on this occassion I apologise to CCP & LeKjart as despite the misleading description Margin Trading is working fine.
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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LeKjart
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:00:00 -
[27]
The Margin Trading skill has a cumulative percentage decrease, meaning it reduces the escrow of the level below by 25%. If you have a better way to describe it, please tell me about it. Maybe it should be 'compounded' or 'multiplicative'?
As for the broker fee, the reason why it is currently shown as 'estimated' on the client, is because there was a slight problem in getting the current standings efficiently down to the client in order to calculate the actual fee. This has been resolved, so expect to see a a client fix (probably next week), where the broker fee is shown accurately when you place the order.
For the transaction tax, it got lost in some DB update, but should be back soon, probably as a silent DB update. sorry for that.
I would expect that we review the actual stats of trade skills for possible improvements (not nerf) once we get a relatively good experience on how exactly they affect trade.
Cheers,
LeKjart
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LeKjart
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:00:00 -
[28]
The Margin Trading skill has a cumulative percentage decrease, meaning it reduces the escrow of the level below by 25%. If you have a better way to describe it, please tell me about it. Maybe it should be 'compounded' or 'multiplicative'?
As for the broker fee, the reason why it is currently shown as 'estimated' on the client, is because there was a slight problem in getting the current standings efficiently down to the client in order to calculate the actual fee. This has been resolved, so expect to see a a client fix (probably next week), where the broker fee is shown accurately when you place the order.
For the transaction tax, it got lost in some DB update, but should be back soon, probably as a silent DB update. sorry for that.
I would expect that we review the actual stats of trade skills for possible improvements (not nerf) once we get a relatively good experience on how exactly they affect trade.
Cheers,
LeKjart
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.12.02 17:37:00 -
[29]
/me thanks LeKjart
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.12.02 17:37:00 -
[30]
/me thanks LeKjart
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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