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Mikael Genexi
Gallente
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2010.03.18 03:33:00 -
[31]
I'm in for 2 Billion.
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thebarry
SRS Industries
SRS.
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Posted - 2010.03.18 04:27:00 -
[32]
SCAM
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
Discord.
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Posted - 2010.03.18 06:36:00 -
[33]
I know of a few markets with tremendous margins at the current time, but nothing that is as profitable as you say, low effort, and can absorb 50bil+ (I presume you have at least 25 of your own already sunk in) at the same time.
Good for you for finding something that matches all three at once.
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Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.03.18 06:51:00 -
[34]
Are you ok with the shares being traded? Why the 2 week wait before this thing starts? If the first 4 blocks fill up and the last doesn't until the end of the 2 weeks that means those that invested first are waiting 90 days plus 2 weeks whereas the late comers are being rewarded for waiting. Where's the incentive to get in early?
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Taram Caldar
Blackwater USA Inc.
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.03.18 06:57:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 18/03/2010 07:00:11
 Originally by: Lui Kai
Edited by: Lui Kai on 17/03/2010 19:45:21
Originally by: Alycium Banko
My reccomendation would be to get in contact with an auditor. Most of the information stated above will be confirmed by an auditor and will increase interest from investors :).
Pending audit I would like to reserve 1bn.
I understand this sentiment, but I am entirely unwilling to disclose the nature of the niche I'm operating in, to an auditor or any other party. As stated in the OP, this offering is not for those looking for an audited/collatoralized investment, thus the interest rate I'm offering.
There are several other investments of the nature you're looking for available currently, though, and I understand your desire to follow a more secured route.
Edit to add: I understand my unwillingness to undergo auditing will cut the funding I receive. I'm fully accepting of this fact, and consider it a reasonable tradeoff for keeping my endeavor secure that much longer.
I really hope the folks posting in here that they're investing are scam alts because anyone investing in this is going to lose their shirt more than likely.
No audit
No collateral
Poor/nonexistant plan
1st time offerer
25bil
?
What can possibly go wrong
Market Alerts Mailing List
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callme tripod
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Posted - 2010.03.18 07:04:00 -
[36]
5 bill please, and my own block if you don't mind. I'd rather not split across blocks.
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Lui Kai
The Penguin Republic
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Posted - 2010.03.18 09:03:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Lui Kai on 18/03/2010 09:03:33
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Have you had a break from the game recently?
In a way - the wife and I took a vacation to Italy. Training was continued, and some mild trading, but I was mostly offline in that period, yep.
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Lui Kai's views on public investment can be found here
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1222858&page=1#26
As answered above in reply to Julian's post - I've already reconciled this with that post by admitting the motivation here is mostly greed. And, as an aside, you seem to be proving the section about "trolls with no intention to invest" incredibly true ;)
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
Are you ok with the shares being traded?
Sure, no problem with that at all.
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
Why the 2 week wait before this thing starts?
Given the nature of the offering, and my previous MD posts, I already figured I'd be enduring a lot of red-faced screaming. As evinced. I did what I could to mitigate scam fears within the framework I'm willing to work with, which included a longer investment/QA period. You make a good point, about motivations to enter earlier - but that's just another possible investment numbers delimitor that I'll have to accept.
Originally by: callme tripod
5 bill please, and my own block if you don't mind. I'd rather not split across blocks.
Sure, I can do that.
To you, and everyone else reserving spots - block reservations are done on an isk-recieved basis. So, whenever is convenient for you, you can send the isk to "Limited Bond" and you'll have your spot.
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Check 1234
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Posted - 2010.03.18 09:55:00 -
[38]
Scam, alts, scam.
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Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2010.03.18 20:00:00 -
[39]
Block 1 closed and share creation enacted, 5,000 shares issued to Claire Voyant.
As detailed in the OP, Block 2 shares will be issued when that block is filled, or the isk refunded if it fails to fill. |
Lyris Nairn
Caldari
Hashimoto Corporation
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Posted - 2010.03.18 23:32:00 -
[40]
I'm willing to risk a billion in this. |
Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2010.03.19 01:18:00 -
[41]
Confirming receipt of 5000 shares of Limited Bond Corp.
I now control the entire voting stock of the corporation and can now rule the world! MWA-HA-HA!
Sorry, I mean I will vote to create new shares as needed. I guess this part was not thought through entirely. |
Naya Sky
Caldari
Serra Industries
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Posted - 2010.03.19 01:19:00 -
[42]
I'll take 500M.
ISK sent to Limited Bond. |
Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.03.19 02:00:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Lui Kai
Added to that, scams of even small scale tend to have strong in-game repercussions. I'm far too much of a carebear to want to deal with constant wardec nonsense, and far too egocentric to ever be willing to give this character up.
Really? in-game repercussions?  Bullcrap. Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Have you had a break from the game recently?
Originally by: Riethe
In unrelated news, you may have noticed a lack of updates on the site. This is for a few reasons. First, I'm not able to load EVE for very long periods of time currently. I'm fixing this very soon. And second, I'm working on a massive addition to EVE Scam that's been taking all of the time that I've actually allocated to the site.
I'm betting on this one. Also note that he is constantly trying to put people who are not suitable targets to go elsewhere while continuously showing the bait of the 10%. |
Alejandro DeTaz
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Posted - 2010.03.19 02:28:00 -
[44]
I'm new to this game, but I would like to buy 1 share if Lui Kai will divulge his business plan to me. |
Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2010.03.19 11:49:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Lui Kai on 19/03/2010 11:53:00
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Sorry, I mean I will vote to create new shares as needed. I guess this part was not thought through entirely.
Actually, no :p This part was thought through - the votes to create shares for blocks 2-5 are already completed, just not enacted. They'll be enacted as the blocks close, or left alone if they fail to.
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus
I'm betting on this one.
Seriously? I'm being called a Riethe alt now? I'll admit, I honestly did not think I'd get accused of being an alt. Bravo, you win "most unexpected criticism." The only refutation I can offer to this one is for folks to pass their own judgment on it's validity. 
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus
Also note that he is constantly trying to put people who are not suitable targets to go elsewhere while continuously showing the bait of the 10%.
Yep. No denial here. In fact, you'll note, I say right in the op that people who aren't comfortable with this shouldn't invest. I acknowledge I'm not offering any of the usual paperwork offered by MD to help one stranger to trust another - and thus cutting the amount of funding I'd potentially receive. Yes, I offer a higher interest rate to compensate for that for those that are more comfortable with the higher level of trust, but for those that want those assurances, I do recommend they go elsewhere. Would it seem like a less of a scam if I told them to invest despite their discomfort? 
Originally by: Naya Sky
I'll take 500M.
ISK sent to Limited Bond.
Confirmed - thank you. Block 2 has not closed yet, so shares will be sent as soon as it does, or isk refunded if it does not.
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Dzil
Caldari
SafeHouse Investments of Tautology
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Posted - 2010.03.19 12:34:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Lui Kai
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus
I'm betting on this one.
Seriously? I'm being called a Riethe alt now? I'll admit, I honestly did not think I'd get accused of being an alt. Bravo, you win "most unexpected criticism." The only refutation I can offer to this one is for folks to pass their own judgment on it's validity.
Fair enough. If you were designing this to be a scam, what (besides keeping the money) would you do differently?
Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m |
Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2010.03.19 12:37:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Lui Kai
Actually, no :p This part was thought through - the votes to create shares for blocks 2-5 are already completed, just not enacted. They'll be enacted as the blocks close, or left alone if they fail to.
Ingenious. You have foiled my plans.
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Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2010.03.19 13:11:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Lui Kai on 19/03/2010 13:13:22
Originally by: Dzil
Fair enough. If you were designing this to be a scam, what (besides keeping the money) would you do differently?
It's a bit of a derailment, but a reasonable question.
Primarily, I sure as hell wouldn't be doing it on my main - a character who a lot of years and love have gone into making exactly what I want to be in my eve experience, who would also be fairly non-functional under constant wardecs. A character who's also been quite outspoken in saying public investment rarely (though sometimes) works in the best interests the person offering it :p
I'd also have accepted private, in-game investments into this - I had to turn down a 2b private offer, simply because this is a common method for ramping up the amount of isk received without the public's knowledge, as we've seen in the past. Granted, you have to take my word for it to a degree that I'm not accepting private funds towards this - but I did my best to plaster all over the investment character, his corp, and this thread that no private investment would be accepted, so someone would have to be fairly dense to send private funds despite that.
I also tried to keep the "discussion" window fairly long, given the time-limited nature of the endevour I'm pursuing. I grant that 2 weeks is hardly ages in an Eve timescale, but more than long enough for any grievances to be aired and addressed - giving folks a chance to make a reasonably informed decision to invest or not.
I'd also be accepting these "reservations" of funds folks have been posting, rather than running on an isk-received basis. Creating an image of a larger number of willing investment than there actually is. If I were accepting the reservations, we'd be on Block 4 now, on the way to 5 - which looks much better (and more urgent to invest quickly) to potent investors.
Honestly, while I understand the "scam" worries, the only valid red flag that this venture could have avoided is the lack of audit. And I fully acknowledge that this increases the "risk" of the venture to those who don't know me at all, and lowers the amount of ISK I'll potentially raise to work with. Thus why I say, in the OP, that this is more aimed at those casual acquaintances and business partners I've had that know my history a bit, and would like to invest in a chance to profit from it - people who don't know me well enough to trust investing privately, but well enough to trust when it's all in the open, with my name on the line, as it were.
If you, or anyone at all, is uncomfortable with those facts - I will tell you outright to not send funds. An audit isn't going to happen, even if someone offered to fill the entire thing in one swoop. I would rather receive less, or no, investment than allow someone else to dig around in my trade data - I'm not asking for investment because I need it to do what I'm doing at all, but because I want to do it bigger. :)
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Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.03.19 23:01:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Lui Kai
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus
I'm betting on this one.
Seriously? I'm being called a Riethe alt now? I'll admit, I honestly did not think I'd get accused of being an alt. Bravo, you win "most unexpected criticism." The only refutation I can offer to this one is for folks to pass their own judgment on it's validity.
You're asking for people to bet on you without any security or confirmation of your claims, I choose to bet against you, what's the difference between what I've done and what you are doing? Asking for people to bet on you just because you post here? I may be wrong and you could have found a gold mine that no one know about and you need the money fast, but my theory is more plausible, you know what they say about things that look too good to be true. Confirm your claims, I've not yet seen a valid reason to not trust a single auditor (that is, when you are asking people to trust you with their money). Quote:
I sure as hell wouldn't be doing it on my main
How do we know this is your main? How do we know it has even any training time on it? If I missed any previous audit that prove this is at least a functional character trained since it's creation, please point me to it. Creation date means nothing, how do we know you are who you say you are? Quote:
Added to that, scams of even small scale tend to have strong in-game repercussions. I'm far too much of a carebear to want to deal with constant wardec nonsense, and far too egocentric to ever be willing to give this character up.
Can you enlightment me as to what are those strong consecuences you speat about? I'm not going to invest as you're suggesting under the current circumstances, but could you stop trying to engineer me into not voicing my concerns because this offer is not aimed at me? Please? And remember that I'm not bitter or anything, I'm just pointing the obvious for people to see. It would be nice if you stop trying to find people dumb or careless enough to not mind throwing money onto the unknown and instead focus on adressing the flaws. If this offer is for people who know you, contact them instead of publishing a public bond. What were those consecuences you speak about again?
EVEwatch Sidebar soon
"It is the unofficial force ù the Jita irregulars. " |
Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2010.03.19 23:55:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus
Confirm your claims, I've not yet seen a valid reason to not trust a single auditor (that is, when you are asking people to trust you with their money).
You see no reason not to trust them, I see no reason I need to. As above, I'm happier accepting lower (or no) funding without playing the MD red-tape games. Honestly, for me, it's less about trust (as there are a few who I consider trust-worthy) and more about a dislike for the system as a whole. As evinced in my posting history.
Quote:
How do we know this is your main? How do we know it has even any training time on it? If I missed any previous audit that prove this is at least a functional character trained since it's creation, please point me to it. Creation date means nothing, how do we know you are who you say you are?
I guess this was an act of accidental egotism on my part. I honestly didn't even consider the possibility I'd be considered an untrained alt. But it's easy enough to provide assurances on this front: Linkage. But, I'll try to save you from pointing out - the fact that I've invested training, time in various corps, time running missions, time talking to folks in game, none of that proves I'm not an alt. I really can't think of any way TO prove I'm not, as even an audit could be argued with the "Not all accounts disclosed" factor. I just have to settle on the fact that there's no more proof I am someone else's alt, than proof I'm not.
Quote:
Can you enlightment me as to what are those strong consecuences you speat about?
I'd honestly thought they were self-evincing. Wardecs, lack of even the slightest trust used in normal business arrangements, lack of ability to ever join a worthwhile corp, et cetera ad nausium. Sure, these are things some folks don't mind - but I value my name. Again, to save the trouble of pointing it out - you have no way of proving that. If you don't accept the statement at face value, there's really nothing I can do to convince you otherwise.
Quote:
I'm not going to invest as you're suggesting under the current circumstances, but could you stop trying to engineer me into not voicing my concerns because this offer is not aimed at me? Please?
There's no engineering involved - honestly, it's that there's only so many times I can restate such a bald fact. I am not getting an audit, under any conceivable circumstance. If this makes anyone uncomfortable, I don't want them to invest. You're welcome to continue trying to "warn" people, rephrasing this fact in as many ways as you want - but as I'm saying it myself, I really don't see the motivation, or point.
I've made no attempt, at any turn or juncture, to conceal the fact that this is a risky venture by the measure of MD's usual paperwork strategies. I am not a forum personality, with prior public investments. I am not consenting to an audit. I've already liquidated anything worth using as collateral. If I were to "pull a runner," an investor would have no recourse other than harassing me in game.
I'll put it as baldly here as I can, to try and help you in the issue: If you have no idea who I am, or any of the work I've done - if you wouldn't trust me with the isk if I just randomly asked for it - investing in this is a 100% gamble on your part. Treat it as such, and don't invest unless you want that gamble.
And no bitterness taken, sorry if I came across as if responding to bitterness. This is why I left a long discussion period - so there could be discussion ;) And, partially, I was just dumbfounded by the idea of being an alt - which I grant was an act of egocentricity on my part.
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Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.03.20 03:31:00 -
[51]
What about using the limited api to check that you are real? Or linking the skills on one of those api verified sites to prove you have been training since 2007? I myself have some characters from 2008 almost untrained.
Maybe I'd throw some money if I knew you are real. I think not much given your 25B max investment. All that consecuences you are talking about are meaningless depending on your playing style and if you're just a decoy.
EVEwatch Sidebar soon
"It is the unofficial force ù the Jita irregulars. " |
Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2010.03.20 09:59:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus
What about using the limited api to check that you are real? Or linking the skills on one of those api verified sites to prove you have been training since 2007?
I did, in my last reply. :)
Linkage
Or is eve-sheet not considered trustworthy? If not, I'm perfectly amendable to throwing the same up on the other sites.
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Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.03.20 19:32:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Lui Kai
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus
What about using the limited api to check that you are real? Or linking the skills on one of those api verified sites to prove you have been training since 2007?
I did, in my last reply. :)
Linkage
Or is eve-sheet not considered trustworthy? If not, I'm perfectly amendable to throwing the same up on the other sites.
I don't see the link in the last post. Do you realise that you haven't trained margin trading? It's essential to any trader! Is this opportunity market related? Are you making money through trading? You can increase your working capital significantly by training it! (Train those thermodynamics up too if you make any combat).
EVEwatch Sidebar soon
"It is the unofficial force ù the Jita irregulars. " |
Kera Delacour
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
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Posted - 2010.03.20 20:49:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus
Originally by: Lui Kai
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus
What about using the limited api to check that you are real? Or linking the skills on one of those api verified sites to prove you have been training since 2007?
I did, in my last reply. :)
Linkage
Or is eve-sheet not considered trustworthy? If not, I'm perfectly amendable to throwing the same up on the other sites.
I don't see the link in the last post. Do you realise that you haven't trained margin trading? It's essential to any trader! Is this opportunity market related? Are you making money through trading? You can increase your working capital significantly by training it! (Train those thermodynamics up too if you make any combat).
Margin trading is hardly essential. It's useful, but not one of the 'necessary' skills to be honest.
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Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2010.03.20 22:44:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Kera Delacour
Margin trading is hardly essential. It's useful, but not one of the 'necessary' skills to be honest. It's a big help but you can get by without it.
Very useful for some types of trading, completely pointless for other types. But I'd rather not derail the investment discussion into my reasons for training or not training certain skills.
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Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.03.20 23:32:00 -
[56]
I'll invest 500M, should I send the money or wait for the block to complete?
EVEwatch Sidebar soon
"It is the unofficial force ù the Jita irregulars. " |
Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2010.03.21 05:09:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus
I'll invest 500M, should I send the money or wait for the block to complete?
Share reservations are purely on an isk-received basis, so if you want to be in Block 2, you should send the isk before it completes. If you wanted to be in Block 3 for some reason, do wait for 2 to complete, though.
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Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2010.03.22 11:30:00 -
[58]
All still on track - and still accepting further investment :)
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Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2010.03.24 20:02:00 -
[59]
A reminder to those who have posted reservations - there is currently 1 week left to invest. :)
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Metolz
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Posted - 2010.03.24 21:47:00 -
[60]
Though I would like to invest and this doesn't look like a scam to me per se (I lurk a lot), it's just not 'clean' enough for me sorry. Please do prove yourself and discover another investment worthy niche in future so I can invest in you. Have a very small bump.
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