formula

Also longer train time = more money for the company obviously.

Like many new players, after spending a few weeks trying to get up to speed with EVE, I finally realized that the biggest hurdle to doing what I wanted to do in EVE was Time. Skill Point Training Time, to be specific. Every null sec alliance that I've looked at has a minimum 5m sp limit for entry, and many have far more. Aside from Goon/Test and EUNI, I can't find a corp/alliance that recruits lower skill point players (if you know of one, please speak up). 5mil SP takes about 4 months to train and that gets you into a ship with slightly better than crappy fitting skills.

Which brings me to my question: why are training times so long? Why is the training time formula what it is? What is the basis of the training times that were programmed? Does anyone know?

So, 140 hours for a real skill that is on my resume versus 336 hours for a fake skill only usable in EvE. That's a ridiculous difference even accounting for an unoptimized brain mapping.

This is not about instant gratification. I simply don't think fake skills should take LONGER than real college level science. I'll go out on the flame war limb and state that skill times should be cut in half. This opinion is based upon starting a new character at a time when the skill timer was faster for noobs, and it actually felt like the correct training speed. ~45+ days for Gallente Carrier V ? Really? Training times are nutz.

So, 140 hours for a real skill that is on my resume versus 336 hours for a fake skill only usable in EvE. That's a ridiculous difference even accounting for an unoptimized brain mapping.

This is not about instant gratification. I simply don't think fake skills should take LONGER than real college level science.

I think you're playing the wrong game.

Training times are not realistic at all. Real classes and training take LESS time than the fake clock-timer EvE skills.

2) Atmospheric physics is 6 in-class hours plus about 8 hours of home work per week for 10 weeks
:: (6 x 10) + (8 x 10) = 140 hours (4 hours of that is eaten up by exams but I won't agrue about that.)
3) Making a conservative guess, Advanced Planetology V (an x5 multiplier) will take ~14 days X 24 hours/day = 336 hours.

Aside from Goon/Test and EUNI, I can't find a corp/alliance that recruits lower skill point players (if you know of one, please speak up)

skill plan advice

Welcome to "instant gratification" flame war territory!

Training times are not realistic at all. Real classes and training take LESS time than the fake clock-timer EvE skills.

A while ago, I posted a comparison of my atmospheric physics class (fulfils B6 science requirement at Cal State East Bay) to Advanced Planetology:
1a) Both require many prereqs so we can ignore the time for those.
1b) At the time of the comparison, my main had +4 implants and was optimized for Perception and Willpower.
2) Atmospheric physics is 6 in-class hours plus about 8 hours of home work per week for 10 weeks
:: (6 x 10) + (8 x 10) = 140 hours (4 hours of that is eaten up by exams but I won't agrue about that.)
3) Making a conservative guess, Advanced Planetology V (an x5 multiplier) will take ~14 days X 24 hours/day = 336 hours.

So, 140 hours for a real skill that is on my resume versus 336 hours for a fake skill only usable in EvE. That's a ridiculous difference even accounting for an unoptimized brain mapping.

This is not about instant gratification. I simply don't think fake skills should take LONGER than real college level science. I'll go out on the flame war limb and state that skill times should be cut in half. This opinion is based upon starting a new character at a time when the skill timer was faster for noobs, and it actually felt like the correct training speed. ~45+ days for Gallente Carrier V ? Really? Training times are nutz.

I'll go out on the flame war limb and state that skill times should be cut in half. This opinion is based upon starting a new character at a time when the skill timer was faster for noobs, and it actually felt like the correct training speed. ~45+ days for Gallente Carrier V ? Really? Training times are nutz.

This.

If training times were short, people would max out, get bored, and move on to other games... just like they do in every other "casual" MMO that you can reach cap in less than a month in.

EVE is for players who do not like easy.

What I ended up doing was not remapping while I trained up mid level fitting skills and basic frigate/destroyer skills. I switched back and forth between skills until I could fit a Rifter and Thrasher with the most common fits. Then I remapped for Gunnery, Missile, and Ship skills, which I will do until i can fit a Hurricane with T2 guns and have the ship/missile skills for a Hound and Cheetah (I complete Frig 5 today). Then remap for fine tuning the fitting skills, cloaking, navigation. Then I will still have 1 remap left for decisions at the 15 or 20 mil skillpoint level

No guild in WoW or EQ or Rift or wherever is going to take someone who started playing a week ago. Skills in EVE are the same as experience and leveling in other games. The difference being, you level up passively leaving time to actually play the game (provided you have a source of isk).

The main skills you actually need don't take long to train. No skill takes long to get to level 4, which is really all you need for the majority of skills and professions. The only thing that separates new players from veterans is that vets have more skills at level 5. And the difference between 4 and 5 is not that much.

Like many new players, after spending a few weeks trying to get up to speed with EVE, I finally realized that the biggest hurdle to doing what I wanted to do in EVE was Time. Skill Point Training Time, to be specific. Every null sec alliance that I've looked at has a minimum 5m sp limit for entry, and many have far more. Aside from Goon/Test and EUNI, I can't find a corp/alliance that recruits lower skill point players (if you know of one, please speak up). 5mil SP takes about 4 months to train and that gets you into a ship with slightly better than crappy fitting skills.

Which brings me to my question: why are training times so long? Why is the training time formula what it is? What is the basis of the training times that were programmed? Does anyone know?

Welcome to "instant gratification" flame war territory!

Training times are not realistic at all. Real classes and training take LESS time than the fake clock-timer EvE skills.

A while ago, I posted a comparison of my atmospheric physics class (fulfils B6 science requirement at Cal State East Bay) to Advanced Planetology:
1a) Both require many prereqs so we can ignore the time for those.
1b) At the time of the comparison, my main had +4 implants and was optimized for Perception and Willpower.
2) Atmospheric physics is 6 in-class hours plus about 8 hours of home work per week for 10 weeks
:: (6 x 10) + (8 x 10) = 140 hours (4 hours of that is eaten up by exams but I won't agrue about that.)
3) Making a conservative guess, Advanced Planetology V (an x5 multiplier) will take ~14 days X 24 hours/day = 336 hours.

So, 140 hours for a real skill that is on my resume versus 336 hours for a fake skill only usable in EvE. That's a ridiculous difference even accounting for an unoptimized brain mapping.

This is not about instant gratification. I simply don't think fake skills should take LONGER than real college level science. I'll go out on the flame war limb and state that skill times should be cut in half. This opinion is based upon starting a new character at a time when the skill timer was faster for noobs, and it actually felt like the correct training speed. ~45+ days for Gallente Carrier V ? Really? Training times are nutz.

EVE is not real!

Good grief man, L3 in a skill would be equivalent to a baccalaureate , l4 would be masters, l5 is doctorate.

Eve's SP system means that you can play the game in the manner you want to, rather than being forced to grind for new levels as happens in nearly every other MMO.

I really hate it when people go around telling new players they need to have trained xyz or skill up for a couple of months before you can play the game properly and be useful. Players can be useful from day 1 with lvl 2 and 3 basic skills. This is just a bad attitude to have and it's one new players could do without hearing.

Agreed. All you need to get started is a frigate, a MicroWarpdrive and a Warp Disruptor.

so why doesn't every major alliance in EVE have a noob fleet to make use of these extremely useful people? this question and point arose earlier in teh thread.

so why doesn't every major alliance in EVE have a noob fleet to make use of these extremely useful people? this question and point arose earlier in teh thread.

Because they are lazy and can't be bothered.

that's too bad. the noobs in EUNI were super willing to fly in the most suicidal fleets. they followed orders without any thought for their own safety and most thought it a victory to get into the battle at all, never mind win it. i don't know any numbers, but i have to believe 100 noobs in destroyers can kill a surprisingly large amount of stuff.

so why doesn't every major alliance in EVE have a noob fleet to make use of these extremely useful people? this question and point arose earlier in teh thread.

Goons and Test do. There are several others who also take on nubs but for the most part the 0.0 alliances are daft and do not take advantage of this fine resource.

Like many new players, after spending a few weeks trying to get up to speed with EVE, I finally realized that the biggest hurdle to doing what I wanted to do in EVE was Time. Skill Point Training Time, to be specific. Every null sec alliance that I've looked at has a minimum 5m sp limit for entry, and many have far more. Aside from Goon/Test and EUNI, I can't find a corp/alliance that recruits lower skill point players (if you know of one, please speak up). 5mil SP takes about 4 months to train and that gets you into a ship with slightly better than crappy fitting skills.

Which brings me to my question: why are training times so long? Why is the training time formula what it is? What is the basis of the training times that were programmed? Does anyone know?

Lots of good posts. Tippia-- thanks for the skill point formulas and the technical details. Tippia and Vera both, yes I was looking to learn about the mechanic at the root of the formula. The reasoning/rationale behind it and how it works in the bigger picture. It would be interesting to find out exactly how they quantify it. Why X number of days for this or that ship type. Why not Y number of days? Perhaps its tied to build times. Which is tied to mining times. and on and on

I get why the alliances have the requirements they do in terms of fittings and ship types. I just expected more use of noobs in fleets for large alliances. So a situation where you maybe spend a few weeks getting up to speed with the terminology and basic mechanics of your ship, join an alliance's noob fleet, spend a few weeks getting used to taking orders in a fleet and clicking when told, then into some meatshield fleet or whatever. I'm sure there are reasons for all of it. You can't endlessly replace ships as a noob and an alliance can't endlessly replace for noobs either, etc etc.

I'm just having a bit of buyer's remorse combined with a bit of early stage addiction. I want some fleet action and the waiting is killing me. I can understand why people like small gang and 1v1 but I signed up for giant fleets in space.

I suppose it's time for this old gem to illustrate the logic.

The training times are fine but if u are impatient just buy a character with 100m sp.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=277