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Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.23 16:57:00 -
[1]
I accepted a courier contract
collateral: 30 million
reward: 7 million
distance: a few jumps in high sec.
cargo size: small
OK...I made the trip.
I then get a convo from the contract maker. He says if I make the trip in the next 5 min, he'll give me an extra 15 mill.
Well, I replied that I was already there...but something funny happened, I could not close out the contract. I tied and tried but the contract window would not give me the option to finish it off.
I explained this to the contractor. So his solution was to trade (just so happens he was at the station )
He would give me 10 mill for the contents of the crate and pay the rest when the trade was complete. I refused. I said I want 37 mill up front. (Collateral + reward)
He refused and I filed a petition.
convo:
(after I tried re-logging to see if it would clear the issue)
me > sorry dude...same ****
me > this has happened to me before...
me > weird bug
me > I can break the container, and give you the contents?
Caldari Soldier0341 > put the cargo in trade
Caldari Soldier0341 > ill pay you if it voids the collateral.
me > ok, but I need the isk first
Caldari Soldier0341 > ill give you 10mil on faith.
me > 37 mil up front or no deal
Caldari Soldier0341 > sorry. good luck with patition then. I'll refile curior contract.
me > scammer
Caldari Soldier0341 > I'm not a scammer *******.
Caldari Soldier0341 > you're the one who wont finish my contract.
me > collateral + reward = 37 million
me > i dont need your stuff
Caldari Soldier0341 > Don't ever take a contract from me again.
He threatened to wardec me and made alot of noise. I stood my ground.
I blocked him...
Magically, after all this I tied once again to close out the contract...AND IT WORKED!!!
So WTF?
An exploit?
BTW: the contents of the crate where relatively useless. Not really high value items.
Opinions?
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voiddragon
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Posted - 2010.03.23 17:02:00 -
[2]
Edited by: voiddragon on 23/03/2010 17:02:38
The way I see it, you accused someone of being a scammer and if it was a simple case of a bug or you didn't know how to finnish it (Old EVE, you use to have to right click the crate and 'deliver' / have it in the station hangar) you should be more aware of what you say. I've not ran a courier recently so I don't know whose fault it was.
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Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.23 17:09:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: voiddragon
Edited by: voiddragon on 23/03/2010 17:02:38
The way I see it, you accused someone of being a scammer and if it was a simple case of a bug or you didn't know how to finnish it (Old EVE, you use to have to right click the crate and 'deliver' / have it in the station hangar) you should be more aware of what you say. I've not ran a courier recently so I don't know whose fault it was.
Well, I've run many courier contracts. I know how to deliver a crate. I just found the coincidence:
he was there...it was just a few jumps from start.
-he offered more money up front
-when I couldn't deliver, he offered a trade.
Had I accepted it, I would have been out 27 mill if he decided not to come through.
BTW: "In good faith" does not exist in EVE. Everyone know that.
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Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2010.03.23 17:16:00 -
[4]
Is there a mechanic that could prevent you from completing the trade? I dont run courriers so I do not know the answer to this.
If there is some "trick" you can pull and it is not in the list of "bannable exploits" then it is a game mechanic and he is performing a legitimate scam. No different from "Hey, wanna buy this rare Veldspar item for 10,000,000 ISK?"
If it's a bug or game exploit then log it in the bug tracker and/or file a petition.
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Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.23 17:22:00 -
[5]
I suspect there is some unknown mechanic that will prevent someone from completing a courier contract.
You then talk the courier jockey to trade (in good faith ) for a reduced price. You void the contract and lose out on your collateral and reward.
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Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2010.03.23 17:26:00 -
[6]
Sounds like there's a way to lock up a contract on his end so you can't complete it.
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Dorotent
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Posted - 2010.03.23 17:39:00 -
[7]
It's only a few jumps, in high sec, and for a decent reward, AND the guy's online at the end station? Scam. Otherwise he'd surely run the small item a few jumps in safe(r) space himself.
Well done for being aware enough of the contract mechanics to spot the problem. I'd agree that it suggests he has found a way to bug the contract his end and pull the old, "Let's just give me the item, and I'll give you the reward (and hope you forget the collateral until later!)" routine. I can see how that would work on several people.
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MickeyKnox
Elysium Trading Company
Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.23 17:43:00 -
[8]
If it's an exploit, it should definitely be put on the list of things that will never be fixed.
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Pesky LaRue
Minmatar
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
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Posted - 2010.03.23 17:52:00 -
[9]
this is heresay so I can't personally vouch for it's veracity but two of my corp mates said they issues like this recently - one was trying to delete a contract that was in progress - apparently this stopped the 2nd corpmate from being able to complete the courier contact.
Anyone else seen this?
.
[Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels] |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.03.23 17:59:00 -
[10]
This stinks of a scam + exploit. That or it was a helluva coincidence. I'd petition it. It'd be worth checking his contract history and contacting other "victims" to see if they went through the same thing.
Oh, and petition it.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.23 19:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
This stinks of a scam + exploit. That or it was a helluva coincidence. I'd petition it. It'd be worth checking his contract history and contacting other "victims" to see if they went through the same thing.
Oh, and petition it.
This.
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Dungheap
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.03.23 19:50:00 -
[12]
Caldari Soldier0341 advertises couriers frequently in our (npc) corp chat. he can't enter hi sec due to security status; think he's grinding sec. up in piek.. none of his contracts to date have failed, likely just a bug or lag. i'll mail him this link see if he cba to reply..
and grats to whoever suggested you petition a completed courier contract...
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Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.23 20:40:00 -
[13]
CALDARI SOLDIER0341:
SEC STATUS: -4.2
BOUNTY :446,706,987.00
CORP STANDING: -10
Yes, clearly this is an individual I can trust.
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The AEther
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.03.23 20:53:00 -
[14]
Edited by: The AEther on 23/03/2010 20:55:58
Originally by: Neo Omni
So WTF?
An exploit?
BTW: the contents of the crate where relatively useless. Not really high value items.
Opinions?
Originally by: Neo Omni
I just found the coincidence:
he was there...it was just a few jumps from start.
-he offered more money up front
-when I couldn't deliver, he offered a trade.
This Caldari Soldier0341 character has over 30 completed courier contracts in his contract history done by some professional haulers who haul some of my stuff occasionally too. Only one out of this bunch was failed. The fact that he was sitting at the station you delivered items too ... well that could have been his home station that he requested delivery to. Think of it like this: you are delivering pizza and then thinking it to be a strange coincidence that the guy who order the pizza is sitting at the address you were requested to deliver it to waiting for it (i mean that would def be so fishy :P)
This guy's security status is -4.2 so no wonder he can't go into civilized space for his "pizza" and instead contracts it out to others deliver for him.
Since contract was inexpensive and he has a long history of successful contracts I am bound to believe that there was simply a bug on your side. Also btw it is good to check character's contract history to see if they offer legit couriers before you accept one.
Agony Unleashed - zero blues 0.0 pvp, pvp classes |
Hesperius
No Salvation
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.03.23 21:00:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Hesperius on 23/03/2010 21:04:11
Originally by: Neo Omni
An exploit?
No, the contract system SUCKS a big fat one.
I have tried to get expedited transport done for me before, but the contract system really buckles up when you try to do things quickly. It causes a lot of hostility and confusion.
and to clear this up, what is happening is the server is not processing or some kind of REALLY LAME CODE is put in place to make it so if you make a courier contract, it shows up to be accepted, but for whatever reason that 'sucks a big fat one' you can not close it out right away.
Why I have needed a transport contract done very quickly is for example: I have a -4.1 security status. So I can get into a .5 system but in the .6 system next door is where part of the fit i want for my new ship. I cant go there in my new ship. So I should be able to pay someone like 5 mil to grab a set of guns for me and bring them to me really quick so i can go back to pirating right? Nope.
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Keiko Shizuka
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Posted - 2010.03.23 21:00:00 -
[16]
I have only done a handful of courier contracts, but I ran into a contract I couldn't turn in for 15 minutes or so. Redocking and relogging, etc. Eventually it just worked. That was roughly a year ago.
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Phosphorus Palladium
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Posted - 2010.03.23 21:09:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Phosphorus Palladium on 23/03/2010 21:13:08
Originally by: Wacktopia
If there is some "trick" you can pull and it is not in the list of "bannable exploits" then it is a game mechanic and he is performing a legitimate scam...
This is incorrect.
 Exploiting a faulty game mechanic can lead to a ban, even if the fault is not on the list of bannable exploits at this time.
For those wanting to use dodgy game mechanics, this is only safe if CCP either already stated that using certain "features" in a certain way is concidered ok, or if an e-mail send to customer support asking if it is ok to use some dodgy game mechanic comes back with a positive answer.
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Caldari Soldier0341
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Posted - 2010.03.24 14:01:00 -
[18]
Hey Neo, from seeing this, I may call off the wardec on Cat's Cradle because I don't know why you would post here if there really had not been some glitch, unless you're hoping word gets back to me for this reason, so I may keep it on just for giggles.
Anywhoo, that's not the main concern. What I am still concerned about is that you continue to insinuate I tired to scam you. As Dung pointed out, I am grinding sec stat, and I often need supplies shipped to me. I have a good report with Xcalibur Transport if you'd like to check my creditability, and they have taken my massive contracts with billion isk collateral's. -- I think it would be advisable to stop whining about a 30mil colat.
But, for the sake of argument, lets look at this situation from my point of view, I am sitting in station, eagerly waiting for my mod which you have. I chat you because I really want my stuff, and yes, I offer extra money for you to make it a priority, I fail to see how that's suspicious. All of a sudden you *can't* complete the contract. I offer to give you ten mil on faith considering I've never heard of someone having this problem. You have the audacity to call ME a scammer when all I want is my stuff.
THEN and this is where my threats come in. Once I tell you I will refile it, and leave station to camp and wait for you to come out to kill you. you're suddenly able to complete the contract. My best guess is you didn't realize I wouldn't accept that, and once I told you I was going to kill you and that I was waiting for you to undock, and talking to corps about wardocing Cat's Cradle, you *magically* fixed the problem which never existed.
Now, I have the question, once I start getting mad, it suddenly works? Wow, seems awfully coincidental.
I think you are a noob scammer, and you messed up, and now you're afraid.
Never take a contract from me again.
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Caldari Soldier0341
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Posted - 2010.03.24 14:06:00 -
[19]
Originally by: The AEther
Edited by: The AEther on 23/03/2010 21:01:39
Originally by: Neo Omni
So WTF?
An exploit?
BTW: the contents of the crate where relatively useless. Not really high value items.
Opinions?
Originally by: Neo Omni
I just found the coincidence:
he was there...it was just a few jumps from start.
-he offered more money up front
-when I couldn't deliver, he offered a trade.
This Caldari Soldier0341 character has over 30 successfully completed courier contracts in his contract history done by some professional haulers who haul some of my stuff occasionally too. Only one out of this bunch was failed. The fact that he was sitting at the station you delivered items too ... well that could have been his home station that he requested delivery to. Think of it like this: you are delivering pizza and then thinking it to be a strange coincidence that the guy who order the pizza is sitting at the address you were requested to deliver it to waiting for it (i mean that would def be so fishy :P)
This guy's security status is -4.2 so no wonder he can't go into civilized space for his "pizza" and instead contracts it out to others deliver for him.
Since contract was inexpensive and he has a long history of successful contracts I am bound to believe that there was simply a bug on your side. Also btw it is good to check character's contract history to see if they offer legit couriers before you accept one.
edit: for those of you guys who can't tell a difference between legit issuer and a scammer I will demonstrate it in pictures:
legit issuer vs scammer
:)
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Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.24 14:38:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Caldari Soldier0341
Hey Neo, from seeing this, I may call off the wardec on Cat's Cradle because I don't know why you would post here if there really had not been some glitch, unless you're hoping word gets back to me for this reason, so I may keep it on just for giggles.
Anywhoo, that's not the main concern. What I am still concerned about is that you continue to insinuate I tired to scam you. As Dung pointed out, I am grinding sec stat, and I often need supplies shipped to me. I have a good report with Xcalibur Transport if you'd like to check my creditability, and they have taken my massive contracts with billion isk collateral's. -- I think it would be advisable to stop whining about a 30mil colat.
But, for the sake of argument, lets look at this situation from my point of view, I am sitting in station, eagerly waiting for my mod which you have. I chat you because I really want my stuff, and yes, I offer extra money for you to make it a priority, I fail to see how that's suspicious. All of a sudden you *can't* complete the contract. I offer to give you ten mil on faith considering I've never heard of someone having this problem. You have the audacity to call ME a scammer when all I want is my stuff.
THEN and this is where my threats come in. Once I tell you I will refile it, and leave station to camp and wait for you to come out to kill you. you're suddenly able to complete the contract. My best guess is you didn't realize I wouldn't accept that, and once I told you I was going to kill you and that I was waiting for you to undock, and talking to corps about wardocing Cat's Cradle, you *magically* fixed the problem which never existed.
Now, I have the question, once I start getting mad, it suddenly works? Wow, seems awfully coincidental.
I think you are a noob scammer, and you messed up, and now you're afraid.
Never take a contract from me again.
Dont get your panties in a bunch, son. It was all a misunderstanding, so I'll be big about it and apologize. As for being a "noob scammer"...nah, I'm strictly a poor care-bear just trying to make a living.
Dont waste your isk on a wardec, I'm a one man corp and I spend most of my time researching. I don't wander into space much so your fleet would have a loooooooong wait; and as for being afraid....*sigh*....this is a freaking game, I have real-life to be afraid of.
peace 
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Caldari Soldier0341
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Posted - 2010.03.24 15:00:00 -
[21]
Never take a contract from me again.
Dont get your panties in a bunch, son. It was all a misunderstanding, so I'll be big about it and apologize. As for being a "noob scammer"...nah, I'm strictly a poor care-bear just trying to make a living.
Dont waste your isk on a wardec, I'm a one man corp and I spend most of my time researching. I don't wander into space much so your fleet would have a loooooooong wait; and as for being afraid....*sigh*....this is a freaking game, I have real-life to be afraid of.
peace
Don't ever accuse me of anything again without solid proof.
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Captain Pompous
Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It
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Posted - 2010.03.24 15:35:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Captain Pompous on 24/03/2010 15:36:25
Originally by: Caldari Soldier0341
Don't ever accuse me of anything again without solid proof.
You like courier contracts and your avatar looks like a sentient testicle.
PS The OP is just a whiny annoying ne'er-do-well, who used to create very whiny threads but now he's creating slightly whiny threads
---
Even though you might disagree with what I say, that doesn't automatically make me a troll. |
Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.24 15:55:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Captain Pompous
Edited by: Captain Pompous on 24/03/2010 15:36:25
Originally by: Caldari Soldier0341
Don't ever accuse me of anything again without solid proof.
You like courier contracts and your avatar looks like a sentient testicle.
PS The OP is just a whiny annoying ne'er-do-well, who used to create very whiny threads but now he's creating slightly whiny threads
You'll have to excuse Captain Pompous. He has trouble getting a girlfriend.
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nether void
Caldari
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.03.24 16:00:00 -
[24]
Edited by: nether void on 24/03/2010 16:03:01
This kind of stuff is to be expected in a game where scams happen a LOT! How can anyone expect to be trusted? Hell I would even have a hard time trusting other corp mates with my ISK.
I would have also assumed it was a scam. Being paranoid is how seasoned gamers avoid scams. 99 times out of 100 if it smells like a scam, it's a scam. Don't blame this guy. Blame the scammers who have built up this kind of paranoia in everyone.
Besides, why didn't you guys just trade the item for 37 mil? Can't the full 37 mil and the item be traded at the exact same time?
*edit*
Oh and how does the hauling contract system work? I would be under the assumption you could check what your hauling first to make sure the item is worth the collateral you're giving, else couldn't the contract creator just scam by never completing contracts? At least if the item is worth the collateral the hauler could just sell it. And if this is all true, I guess it's up to the hauler to make sure the item being hauled is actually worth the collateral.
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Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.24 16:11:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Neo Omni on 24/03/2010 16:11:49
Originally by: nether void
This kind of stuff is to be expected in a game where scams happen a LOT! How can anyone expect to be trusted? Hell I would even have a hard time trusting other corp mates with my ISK.
I would have also assumed it was a scam. Being paranoid is how seasoned gamers avoid scams. 99 times out of 100 if it smells like a scam, it's a scam. Don't blame this guy. Blame the scammers who have built up this kind of paranoia in everyone.
Unfortunately we are slaves to the mechanics of the game which do allow for a large number of scams. Paranoia is a way of life for me in EVE.
Originally by: nether void
Besides, why didn't you guys just trade the item for 37 mil? Can't the full 37 mil and the item be traded at the exact same time?
That's what I offered, but the contractor would only do so for 10 mill. I refused.
Originally by: nether void
Oh and how does the hauling contract system work? I would be under the assumption you could check what your hauling first to make sure the item is worth the collateral you're giving, else couldn't the contract creator just scam by never completing contracts? At least if the item is worth the collateral the hauler could just sell it. And if this is all true, I guess it's up to the hauler to make sure the item being hauled is actually worth the collateral.
You cant see the contents of the crate until you accept the contract. I once paid 100 mill collateral to transport (once I looked in the crate) a small empty container deep into 0.0 space only to find out once I reached the destination that the station would not allow me to dock.
I've had to learn the hard way since there is no EVE manual on avoiding scams.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.03.24 16:34:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Neo Omni
That's what I offered, but the contractor would only do so for 10 mill. I refused.
And you were expected to accept 10 mil 'in good faith'. Seriuosly, are people expected to swollow that crap without so much as a hiccup? This game teaches you not to trust anyone.... NO ONE AT ALL. But "hey, it's in good faith bro, i promise."
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
nether void
Caldari
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.03.24 16:42:00 -
[27]
Yeah I would say this was a scam. It smells like a fish. It's a fish.
Like dude I was inside this bank late at night. I had all black on, standing in the lobby with a sub-machine gun and a safe cracker. Dude I was just there dropping off a night deposit! I wasn't there to rob the bank! C'mon! If you need proof check my account! I make night deposits all the time!
All this medical ********* I'm growing is for my illness! All 100 plants of it! I'm not a dealer!
Hey kid, get in my van. I've got some candy for you. I'm not a child molester, I promise!
Also, the system is broken if you have to pay collateral to ship something for which you can't check the value of before accepting the contract. lol Wow. Just wow. So glad I'm not a hauler.
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