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EVE success = real life success?

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Kalanar Wrecking Shots Hostile Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.25 23:54:00 - [61] Providing a counterexample: I've never really been successful in trading in EVE (granted, I haven't really tried other than small trade operations, yet I have been extremely successful in real life as far as trading and just general life.
panda name	Posted - 2010.03.26 06:20:00 - [62] yeah, i've probably blown up as many people as i have in eve in real life. it's harder in real life though because you actually have to aim and stuff.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.03.26 14:31:00 - [63] Quote: If you trust the employees you hired to perform the jobs you hired them for then you wouldn't need to even carry you Blackberry to the movies If you trust the employess you hired to never be human and therefore to never try to backstab and generally screw your life then you are in for a nasty delusion, sooner or later. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Thrasymachus TheSophist	Posted - 2010.03.26 16:55:00 - [64] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha If you trust the employess you hired to never be human and therefore to never try to backstab and generally screw your life then you are in for a nasty delusion, sooner or later. Wow. Remind me never to hire you. Most employees, indeed most humans, do not "try to backstab and generally screw your life". As for the OP, even if I were to post what I do in RL, nobody would beleive it. =P
RAW23	Posted - 2010.03.26 17:21:00 - [65] Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha If you trust the employess you hired to never be human and therefore to never try to backstab and generally screw your life then you are in for a nasty delusion, sooner or later. Wow. Remind me never to hire you. Most employees, indeed most humans, do not "try to backstab and generally screw your life". As for the OP, even if I were to post what I do in RL, nobody would beleive it. =P Mr President? Don't you have a health care bill to take care of?
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.03.26 18:13:00 - [66] Quote: Wow. Remind me never to hire you. Most employees, indeed most humans, do not "try to backstab and generally screw your life". I bid you your best luck at going ahead like that, you often aren't given a second chance once you find out that it can happen. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
xylopia Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.03.27 06:04:00 - [67] Edited by: xylopia on 27/03/2010 06:11:22 Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist As for the OP, even if I were to post what I do in RL, nobody would beleive it. =P W/e anyone and everyone does is none of my interest, but you seem waiting someone to come out and say, 'what do you do?' I'd believe w/e you say. So, what are you juggling?
Cyaxares II	Posted - 2010.03.27 07:34:00 - [68] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: Wow. Remind me never to hire you. Most employees, indeed most humans, do not "try to backstab and generally screw your life". I bid you your best luck at going ahead like that, you often aren't given a second chance once you find out that it can happen. These two statements don't contradict each other - most people are (in my experience) indeed reasonably nice. However, the minority that is not can cause enough damage to make "let's just assume he's nice" an unpractical approach.
Boogie Bobby	Posted - 2010.03.27 22:22:00 - [69] Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist As for the OP, even if I were to post what I do in RL, nobody would beleive it. =P I met a lower end rock star from playing another MMO, and there's a wide variety of celebs etc that admit to playing WOW so really you can claim to be anyone and I wouldn't be terribly surprised. I think the biggest limit on the talents working both online and real world is time, like someone mentioned earlier. The more successful you are in one medium precludes success in the other. Those of you who've been working on your empire since 2003 might be able to get away with a minimal amount of play but for those of us catching up it can take a bit more. Also agree that there are so many measures of success, and there's also lots of real life skills that can help you in EVE, not just finance.
ZiYauRen Gallente RedShift Limited Sang Do Oligarchic Democracy	Posted - 2010.03.28 02:53:00 - [70] I am one of those old geezers in rl. I say that this discussion can really be guided/defined/concluded with two words. Balance and Endurance. Abilities or lack of them will only enhance or detract from these two. Having been and still being 'successful' in rl and able to accomplish what I want to in EVE are both decided by those two factors. I have taught and executed both leadership and management in both rl and EVE to the degree I have 'wanted' to consistantly. It is tremendously easier in EVE. This is simply because there is a lack of decent ability and anyone can do it in a game if they have the endurance. The world... including games... does not care what you want, feel, think, need, or say. It only reacts positively or negatively to what you do. Just as in rl, if you have the endurance, you can accomplish much in a game if you dedicate yourself to it. In a game, however, it is much more likely to fail just as spectacularly as it began. The reason is balance. Someone with the capacity to navigate the harsh realities of rl will never choose the game over rl. Those who dedicate themselves to the game simply don't have the balance/priorities to succeed tremendously in rl. There are things you must do for success. Doing things takes time. Those who can't see the paradoxes and contradictions here don't have an opinion worth hearing. The game is fun. Unless you show a way to profit greatly from it that can make you rl dollars, w/out owning the company that runs it, there is no reason to consider it in any way related to rl success. Exactly the opposite. Rl success is about priorities and doing. Game success is about the lack of both. Its a break... thats all. It indicates no more about 'successful' people than liking bbq or going to a movie does.

Mia Lang Caldari KARZEC INDUSTRIES INC Venture Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.28 11:41:00 - [71] Originally by: ZiYauRen I am one of those old geezers in rl. I say that this discussion can really be guided/defined/concluded with two words. Balance and Endurance. Abilities or lack of them will only enhance or detract from these two. Having been and still being 'successful' in rl and able to accomplish what I want to in EVE are both decided by those two factors. I have taught and executed both leadership and management in both rl and EVE to the degree I have 'wanted' to consistantly. It is tremendously easier in EVE. This is simply because there is a lack of decent ability and anyone can do it in a game if they have the endurance. The world... including games... does not care what you want, feel, think, need, or say. It only reacts positively or negatively to what you do. Just as in rl, if you have the endurance, you can accomplish much in a game if you dedicate yourself to it. In a game, however, it is much more likely to fail just as spectacularly as it began. The reason is balance. Someone with the capacity to navigate the harsh realities of rl will never choose the game over rl. Those who dedicate themselves to the game simply don't have the balance/priorities to succeed tremendously in rl. There are things you must do for success. Doing things takes time. Those who can't see the paradoxes and contradictions here don't have an opinion worth hearing. The game is fun. Unless you show a way to profit greatly from it that can make you rl dollars, w/out owning the company that runs it, there is no reason to consider it in any way related to rl success. Exactly the opposite. Rl success is about priorities and doing. Game success is about the lack of both. Its a break... thats all. It indicates no more about 'successful' people than liking bbq or going to a movie does. /agreed
RAW23	Posted - 2010.03.28 12:13:00 - [72] Originally by: ZiYauRen The game is fun. Unless you show a way to profit greatly from it that can make you rl dollars, w/out owning the company that runs it, there is no reason to consider it in any way related to rl success. Exactly the opposite. You equate real life success purely with financial gain. You speak of balance but this shows an unfortunate lack of perspective. On this criterion, most of the great minds whose thought our current civilisation is based were less "successful" than moderately wealthy shop keepers or farmers. Philosophers such as Socrates and Diogenes the Cynic, who completely eschewed financial gain, must be counted as complete failures it seems. Or ... just possibly ... there are things other than wealth that are valuable. Perhaps even, and speak this softly, more valuable than hard cash . If so, then there are other criteria by which to judge success, criteria that make something of a mockery of this kind of materialistic world-view.
Tehg Rhind	Posted - 2010.03.28 17:09:00 - [73] Edited by: Tehg Rhind on 28/03/2010 17:15:35 The skills I have developed building market tools for eve have been directly beneficial to stuff I do at work. I built an Access database to manage my trading. At the same time I was designing a LIMs system (scientific database) at work. For my current trade system I am about to start using some engineering economics techniques like time-value of money as applied to series. If I was completely masochistic I could apply linear programming to investments. These skills translate directly to real world, and can make you a LOT of money if you know how to do them. Same thing with managing transportation logistics. My system involves doing blends between regionwide and localized buy orders based on volume/time. Knowing exactly when the value in a system justifies a courier contract, and exactly how much I should pay and collateral for that courier contract is integral to my system. This kind of stuff translates to a lot of real businesses, but on a much less complicated scale. I guess the main thing is that certain career paths in EvE can start getting really complicated (vertically integrated trade and production system), and require a good ability to manage a lot of data efficiently. And however you do that, that's valuable in the real world. Edit: Should note that I do very low-risk very high volume, non speculative trading. Highly speculative trading doesn't necessarily need these things, and probably wouldn't profit from them . The only way to be competitive in that is through heavy amounts of data analysis.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.03.28 17:22:00 - [74] Originally by: ZiYauRen The game is fun. {...} Rl success is about priorities and doing. Game success is about the lack of both. Its a break... thats all. It indicates no more about 'successful' people than liking bbq or going to a movie does. Totally agreed. Originally by: RAW23 Philosophers such as Socrates and Diogenes the Cynic, who completely eschewed financial gain, must be counted as complete failures it seems. Straw man argument. ZiYauRen did not equate real life success via some financial zero sum model. He simply said that "game success" has little to do with rl success. As to the rest of your response: Agreed. Originally by: Tehg Rhind a good ability to manage a lot of data efficiently. And however you do that, that's valuable in the real world. This. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.03.28 19:56:00 - [75] I used to think success had something to do with financial status until I had a family of my own and discovered true success. If you can balance eve+family you are very successful IMHO. This is clearly a signature.
Riethe	Posted - 2010.03.28 20:58:00 - [76] Originally by: RAW23 You equate real life success purely with financial gain. And so does the rest of the thread. What's your point? This guy's post is the only one actually worth reading and isn't a load of crap.
RAW23	Posted - 2010.03.29 09:34:00 - [77] Edited by: RAW23 on 29/03/2010 09:37:01 Edited by: RAW23 on 29/03/2010 09:35:24 Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: RAW23 Philosophers such as Socrates and Diogenes the Cynic, who completely eschewed financial gain, must be counted as complete failures it seems. Straw man argument. ZiYauRen did not equate real life success via some financial zero sum model. He simply said that "game success" has little to do with rl success. I don't think this is a straw man. I may have misinterpreted this statement, though: Originally by: ZiYauRen The game is fun. Unless you show a way to profit greatly from it that can make you rl dollars, w/out owning the company that runs it, there is no reason to consider it in any way related to rl success. Exactly the opposite. My understanding of this is that he is saying: "There is no reason to consider the game as related to rl success unless money can be made from it in real life." I thus assumed an implicit premise that only those things, in general, that can make you real money can be related to rl success. Those that do not are related to "exactly the opposite" (not entirely clear what is meant here but it seems to suggest rl failure). Alternatively, his implicit premise might be that games are special cases and that only in these special cases does success need to be connected to financial gain. However, there is nothing to suggest this interpretation, so I thought the general interpetation to be the simplest and, thus, most likely. Originally by: Riethe Originally by: RAW23 You equate real life success purely with financial gain. And so does the rest of the thread. What's your point? This guy's post is the only one actually worth reading and isn't a load of crap. My point is that this is a very narrow view of success and not one that would be recognised by anyone with a vocation other than making money. For instance, the analytical skills needed for business success in EVE can have a range of non-financially directed applications in real life. The ability to analyse is, for example, fundamental to my profession as a philosopher and would remain fundamental even if philosophy moved back out of the modern academy and ceased to be a paid job (we can only hope!). This is not, however, to say that you need analytical skills at a particularly high level to succeed in EVE. But if your skills are insufficient to cope with the complexity of EVE they are certainly going to be insufficient to cope with more detailed and problematic systems of thought. So the ability (not necessarily the interest or desire) to succeed in analysing structures and markets in EVE is a necessary but not sufficient condition for success in high-level analysis outside the game. This is all quite independent of financial success.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.03.29 10:35:00 - [78] In this case, it is simply a discussion about personal philosophies. There is no wrong, there is no right. And most importantly, there is no spoon. Spoon! Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2010.03.29 15:27:00 - [79] Unfortunately living in your parents basement while being unemplyed playing 20 hours a day or working at dominos pizza happens in mmo's. better yet playing 20 hours a day while on summer vacation from junior high happens as well. Regardless of your situation, there is nothing really wrong with it. The idea is people can devote lots of time and energy into a game where the possibilities are easier than in real life. The ones that are unemployed living in their parents basements with market bots while semi online with 2+ accounts murdering the markets for isk are the ones you need to worry about.
Ashira Twilight	Posted - 2010.03.30 00:18:00 - [80] Originally by: Bad Bobby I fail just as badly at real life as I do at eve. This. Want to start a club? Failure Inc?

ZiYauRen Gallente RedShift Limited Sang Do Oligarchic Democracy	Posted - 2010.03.30 05:17:00 - [81] The truth of the matter is that I wasn't referring to 'purely financial gain' if you read closely. You could also read 'profit' in there just as easily. The fact of the matter is that the universe couldn't care less about what you think, feel, believe, want, or need. It only reacts... positively or negatively... to what you do. The point stands simply because an inability to profit from what you do in one venue in another venue is the point. That you don't get it proves the point actually. BTW... thanks for making my point as well.
Riethe	Posted - 2010.03.30 08:35:00 - [82] Originally by: ZiYauRen The fact of the matter is that the universe couldn't care less about what you think, feel, believe, want, or need. It only reacts... positively or negatively... to what you do. What you do is the direct result of what you think, feel, believe, want, or need. Therefore the universe must care about these things, as they are the source of your decisions.
Nyveg Hyperborea Re	Posted - 2010.03.30 10:47:00 - [83] Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha If you trust the employess you hired to never be human and therefore to never try to backstab and generally screw your life then you are in for a nasty delusion, sooner or later. Wow. Remind me never to hire you. Most employees, indeed most humans, do not "try to backstab and generally screw your life". As for the OP, even if I were to post what I do in RL, nobody would beleive it. =P Mr President? Don't you have a health care bill to take care of? If someone takes care of the prompter first.


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