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Josh Morgan
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Posted - 2010.03.25 02:21:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Josh Morgan on 25/03/2010 02:21:32
Am I the only on the finds the 'It's a game' excuse to be an ironic? Because if you actually try to get good and play a game arent you taking it seriously? I am talking purely philosophical. Any one care to discuss this?
EDIT:  Totally posted this in the wrong section, thought I hit General.
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Ping Bong
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Posted - 2010.03.25 02:42:00 -
[2]
In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion. - Douglas Adams
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Aixa Syal
Minmatar
al-Syal Brigade
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Posted - 2010.03.25 02:47:00 -
[3]
It's just a game?.... well I agree with this mode of thinking as its rare anything effects me when I walk away from computer, When i'm playing I tend to get focused on any game and I really play from my characters point of view so most my emotions and feelings are my character's. at least thats how I always played games... maybe because I roleplay at times and used to in my past?
in real life as a game there is villains and there is scum, this is what makes the game interesting. Of course..... there are lines and different barriers to cross where i can be effected differently, like "if" i knew someone very well and got to know them very well out of game, ie. on msn/voice and they betrayed me etc, this is more personal & this happened to me once. but life is short & you learn from your failures, we play to have fun with our time when we log into any game. so yes its just a game....
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HarveyBirdman Esquire
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Posted - 2010.03.25 04:29:00 -
[4]
For the price of a used Scion, I'll be happy to tell you. And if you bump it up to three dollars, I'll even throw in a paperclip.
-Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law!
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Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2010.03.25 04:33:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Josh Morgan
EDIT: Totally posted this in the wrong section, thought I hit General.
I'm not worried as this is one of the better threads. We can also put this on topic.
I view the market as just a game. I'm playing with fake money and if I screw up I can get fake money again.
Why so serious?
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven
this thread is obviously going places
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Lord Zekk
Caldari
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.25 06:05:00 -
[6]
While I see the OP's point of view, I beleive the "It's a game" argument holds true. Even though sometimes all of us get rapped up in our characters and their failure and successes may seem very personal, in the end it is a game.
This is why I can talk to make friends with people who have destroyed countless numbers of my ships or be cool with someone stealing capital ships. It's all pixels.
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We are recruiting. Visit us at http://www.22ndbrdu.com |
genette devo
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.03.25 06:55:00 -
[7]
football is just a game, so is hockey, kick boxing, kendo....
but the people who play them are never cool this playing like sh** because it's just a game.
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Umega
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.03.25 07:21:00 -
[8]
Originally by: genette devo
football is just a game, so is hockey, kick boxing, kendo....
but the people who play them are never cool this playing like sh** because it's just a game.
Some of them are cool. Some are not. Same as with any game.
And if you looking at the professional level.. it is well, a profession. It is their job to win, that is why they get paid real money. I don't think you can compare the two.
And thats where my point comes in.. for people that take it a stretch to seriously. You are giving away money to play. Why would anyway give away money to be upset and mad? You should know what you walkin' into before you walk into it and start handing out your own money.
EVE is like chutes n ladders.. deal with it. Everyone is goin' to hit a chute and slide downward whether it is by there means or someone else's, or jus' **** luck. Try to enjoy the ride down with a 'wheeeeee!', and then a smile as you bolt to the next ladder back upwards. It's a game.. be a kid. It's the most pure innocent sensation in life.
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-Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it- |
Riethe
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Posted - 2010.03.25 07:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Umega
Some of them are cool. Some are not. Same as with any game.
And if you looking at the professional level.. it is well, a profession. It is their job to win, that is why they get paid real money. I don't think you can compare the two.
And thats where my point comes in.. for people that take it a stretch to seriously. You are giving away money to play. Why would anyway give away money to be upset and mad? You should know what you walkin' into before you walk into it and start handing out your own money.
EVE is like chutes n ladders.. deal with it. Everyone is goin' to hit a chute and slide downward whether it is by there means or someone else's, or jus' **** luck. Try to enjoy the ride down with a 'wheeeeee!', and then a smile as you bolt to the next ladder back upwards. It's a game.. be a kid. It's the most pure innocent sensation in life.
If you're really hardcore, you treat chutes like ladders, because only an infant can't climb up a small plastic slide.
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Nero Farway
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Posted - 2010.03.25 07:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Josh Morgan
Edited by: Josh Morgan on 25/03/2010 02:21:32
Am I the only on the finds the 'It's a game' excuse to be an ironic? Because if you actually try to get good and play a game arent you taking it seriously? I am talking purely philosophical. Any one care to discuss this?
Yeah I like to discuss such things =)
The "It's just a game" philosophy (one should not call it an "excuse") compares a game to other things you could do if you didn't play the game and, in a sense, says, that things happening in the game are not worth being connected to emotions at all or at least not as much as other things outside the game.
Since we do use our emotional representational system all day this would cut our actual experience with the gaming environment my an important factor. As a result other things would be more important and used while playing a game.
I personally think this is partly true. Logic seems to be a more important part of a game then it is in real like compared to emotions. In the game you can predict things more easily since you can look up or test things repeatingly which you could not do in real life (like dying).
However, there are different types of games and while you can lose one round of a strategy game within a few minutes and proceed to the next you don't have that in RPGs. Still there is the possibility of respawning. Most RPGs even allow you do keep your items. THis does not apply to eve and therefore a loss of a good ship usually makes people feel bad.
There is another example:
If you watch a movie you have an emotional relation to the characters in the movie. Since a game is some kind of an interactive movie, a world you enter through your audiovisual systems, this does also apply to games.
If you find a valuable items you are happy, if your ship gets destroyed you feel sad.
Even though we cannot smell or taste the things in the game we can see, hear and feel it.
So, back to the "It's just a game" philosophy:
We recognize things in the game as we do in the real life. If we talk to someone on the phone we dont just say:"It's just a phone call" if that person is sad, even though we do only use out auditive and our kinesthetic systems)and maybe our visual if we imagine that person). One could even thing of the persons smell but you dont know if this is how he/she really does smell right now. Its just your imagination.. and in the same way you can imagine things in a game. Watch a movie, there are different scenes and your mind automatically connects them, its the same for everything else.
Is it a game?
Yes, it is something people play to have fun, so it is a game.
It is real?
The game itself is, its electrons running through a processor with a certain voltage.
The only thing making it unreal is that we connect it to the "real life".
Is it worth less then "real life"?
If you spend time with something it is part of your life. What makes people think there is "real life" and something else. Isn't living the fact that I breathe and think? So its real when I play. I really push the keys on my keyboard and I really use my mouse. Its a modern way of communication and learning, the things people have always done. The telephone has been accepted, the movie has been accepted and the internet is being accepted more and more as a part of life. The same goes for games. Competitive games have developped to sports and thats what playing games eventually will be accepted as, even if it hasn't yet.
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Savatar Mei
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Posted - 2010.03.25 08:36:00 -
[11]
'its just a game' is a pure bull**** excuse.
countries have gone to war over football matches http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_War
fans have rioted in streets, destroyed buildings bla bla bla.
even if u are not on the destructive side, how do u feel when ur team gets beaten in the finals of the world cup? ****ty right? now encore to all the ****heads running into your face like a 5 year old gloating, just so they can collect your tears - now thats bad sport.
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Ikonia
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Posted - 2010.03.25 11:00:00 -
[12]
Well, define what you mean with "it is a game".
Looking at Eve at a fun possibility to have success in interaction with others of the community residing in this world.
Fine thing is, that there are less rules than in the real world. Means: in eve you can do some things, you cannot do in the real world. Some you could do, but you wouldnt except you have a serious problem or are brain damaged.
What i love to take the excuse "it is a game" for, is to have the guts to DO it without causing real damage to one. I mean, who does not set up a cheap price for buying stuff and sell it with profit elsewhere? Or simply underbid the other corp? Or to make a fleet and hunt down some stupid pirates? And that all without gnawing on ones conscience?
Honestly i love it. Sure, it feels cool and taugh to see the enemies battleship pop. If it is a players one, you can understand how it hurts him, but does that make a bad conscience? No. Cause "it is a game".
It kust depends on which side of the "pop" you are. The guy blown up will surely not try to calm himself with "**** it is just a game" while tears running down his face during the pirates loot his wreck :)
Cheers, Iko
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Honker:"Damn! Ok, I'll go and loot my wife now..."
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HighSec Gankers? Well, every world has its psychpaths. |
Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.03.25 12:26:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Krathos Morpheus on 25/03/2010 12:26:42
Originally by: Savatar Mei
'its just a game' is a pure bull**** excuse.
countries have gone to war over football matches http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_War
fans have rioted in streets, destroyed buildings bla bla bla.
Originally by: Wikipedia
It was caused by political conflicts between Hondurans and Salvadorans, namely issues concerning immigration from El Salvador to Honduras.
As with all wars, that was the excuse, not the reason. The reason is always territory, money or power.
EVEwatch Sidebar soon
"It is the unofficial force ù the Jita irregulars. " |
Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.03.25 13:45:00 -
[14]
Firstly, it IS a game, so anyone saying that is right and everyone saying the contrary is wrong. By definition.
Is that enough reason to do some things in the game? Well, for me it isn't, but that is because I behave the way I do because I choose to. There are people who do what they do because of the consecuences, meaning the laws are useful with those people.
For that people, it's just a game means they show their true nature, and by true nature I don't mean they are killers, they are not killing anybody, nor I'm saying that good people should not fit guns in the game, I'm thinking about people who likes to **** the cocroach after killing it, if you know what I mean.
There are people who choose to play in a villanish role, those people are playing a character and that character will never say It's just a game. It could be that after seeing the suffer they cause, those people go out of character to say It's just a game.
I have confronted feelings about this, for once I'd say that if you can't stand making others suffer and stay on character, you should not go that route, but on the other hand there are some people who really need to realise that it is just a game. If you can not disconnect from the game and realise that your loses in the game are not that important you have serious problems.
Then there are those other people that say it's just a game when they have loses and/or they realise after a heated discussion that their time is best spent elsewhere, that they do not want that from the game or that the other party is taking the game too much seriously or is aiming to do a damage that is stupid to seek since you can get over the loses easily since they are not real for you (not real in like you don't feel them being like your real stuff, your stereo, car and house are there and that's what matters). I think that is good to think it's a game from time to time, but only a few people extremely attached to the game need to hear it, so think it and act consecuently, other people don't need to know every time.
Of course there people that suffer the loss heavily but say it's just a game to deny the bullier the satisfaction to know that. I'd say there are better ways to do that than to lie.
In essence, I think that "It's a game" should never be an excuse but a reason to be consecuent with our decisions, and it should never be used except to help people realise that there are life outside and they should not be extremely emotionally attached to a game. You can think it and act because of it, but you shouldn't say it unless the other people need to hear. If it's yourself who need it, thinking is enough.
EVEwatch Sidebar soon
"It is the unofficial force ù the Jita irregulars. " |
Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.03.25 18:03:00 -
[15]
NFL football still is about a game and it's also a business with revenues in the billions employing over a thousand people full time between all the staff at teams and media people assigned
the players are still competing in games. Can't write an essay from the iPhone but a game is about creating an alternate context to interact in
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Bad Bobby
The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
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Posted - 2010.03.25 18:05:00 -
[16]
"It's just a game." has been Bad Bobby's in-game bio since I created him back in 2006.
It's there as a reminder to everyone, me included, that this is just a game and people should only allow in-game events to bring them enjoyment... not stress, not anger, not unhappyness. Take it all with a smile.
Obviously being a pirate the "It's just a game" line is the standard response to much of the more heated fanmail I get.
Oh, I also added Hexxx's "ode to a frozen corpse" to my bio after I witnessed it's rendition in a chat channel. But that's not as important as the original content.
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ChrisIsherwood
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Posted - 2010.03.25 19:19:00 -
[17]
Which usage do you mean:
1) I just lost something. cognitive dissonance, I really didn't want that much anyway. e.g. former spaceholders holders
2) The excuse, along with cyber-anonymity, for being rude and demeaning
3) I can try to hurt and defraud others, but I am not a sociopath or even a bad person, IOAG
4) I am too lazy to look up fittings and strategies
5) Ridicule others' passionate forum postings |
Demolishar
G-Force Enterprises
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.03.25 19:24:00 -
[18]
If the people using "it's just a game" as an excuse actually believed that, they wouldn't have anything to use it as an excuse for.
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mourningdawn
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Posted - 2010.03.25 19:56:00 -
[19]
Edited by: mourningdawn on 25/03/2010 20:01:10
I've been fascinated with where gaming meets real life and what that line looks like since I first read Snow Crash way back when. I think those who are older and did not grow up with computers, or those of us who grew up with games that clearly were not close to reality have clearer definitions of 'just a game' then those younger players that have had MMOs throughout their teenage years. I think if you spend your school day killing time until you can log in again, you have a very different definition of what is 'just a game.'
At what point does a game become the single focus of your real life?
Eve adds an entire new dimension to this line between gaming and real life, because it is very likely there are people out there working a part time job so they can buy more plex (on topic for MD!).
Also, as far as the OP is concerned, I think the definition of being serious about a game is if you treat getting better at the game like a race with others. Of course I want to get better at this game, but what I don't care about is the speed at which I do it. Personally, I will either maintain my comfort level, or play a different game. Which more or less defines consumers in a free market economy if you replace comfort with money.
Edit: for a missing word or 2...brain and hands not in sync today. |
Aerilis
Gallente
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.03.26 00:04:00 -
[20]
Confirming this thread belongs in Market Discussions.
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[WTS] Dominix Navy Issues - 500M |
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Loki Nahat
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Posted - 2010.03.26 16:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: mourningdawn
Eve adds an entire new dimension to this line between gaming and real life, because it is very likely there are people out there working a part time job so they can buy more plex (on topic for MD!).
Hmm, if this is really true, can those people please 'fess up. I'd like to go destroy their part time job. Just so they can stare reality in the face instead of hiding from it.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Punic Corp.
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Posted - 2010.03.26 17:56:00 -
[22]
When people say "it's a game", they don't mean "you shouldn't take it seriously". You should most defnitely take a game that you spend much of your time on seriously.
They mean "it's not real".
It just seems insane to me that someone would seriously (not just in an RP way) attach moral judgement to something that happens in a game and within the game's rules.
Your character is not you. Your character's assets and money don't belong to you. They're like monopoly money and don't mean **** once you log off. All of those numbers in CCP's database belong to CCP. Stop paying your subscription and they can deny you access to them just like that.
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'In Eve, as in real life, if you are bored it's your own fault.' |
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente
C C P
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Posted - 2010.03.26 18:32:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Josh Morgan
EDIT: Totally posted this in the wrong section, thought I hit General.
Here let me fix that for you. Moved to General Discussion.
Zymurgist
Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online
Contact us |
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Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.03.26 19:36:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Zartrader on 26/03/2010 19:38:40
I only see that when people are making an excuse for being bad players. It goes with 'I have a life' and 'you're all elitists' Any activity worth doing needs effort. I do go for the 'it's only a game' when I lose something ingame though, but that's for me only, I can understand others being upset.
EDIT: As to morals, I agree in a game that is marketed as an immoral game it's fine to be immoral in it. I do not think that necessarily reflects on the real person at all.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.03.26 19:38:00 -
[25]
Well the object of a game is to win, so getting better at a game is not being serious, it is the natural thing to do. Improving and getting stronger and better at something is only logical as competition is fun and drives a lot of people. I don't see anything wrong with practicing or getting better at video games as long as it is done in moderation. Now those guys in Korea who play Starcraft 14+ hours a day, those guys are probably taking it too seriously...
Some people could not care less about competition or "winning/losing" a purely inconsequential imaginary video game and that is completely healthy as well. There are many ways to play a video game as vast as EVE-Online and some people would just rather have fun then try to win all the time. I don't see one group as being more serious about the game, I see two different ways of playing and enjoying the game.
Heck, if no one every tried to get better at games, we would never have computer games, we wouldn't even have checkers or chess. A game is boring if no one cares whether or not they win.
Originally by: Jim Raynor
EVE needs danger, EVE needs risks, EVE needs combat, even piracy, without these things, the game stagnates to a trivial game centering around bloating your wallet with no purpose. |
Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.03.26 19:44:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Zartrader on 26/03/2010 19:46:38
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Well the object of a game is to win, so getting better at a game is not being serious, it is the natural thing to do. Improving and getting stronger and better at something is only logical as competition is fun and drives a lot of people. I don't see anything wrong with practicing or getting better at video games as long as it is done in moderation. Now those guys in Korea who play Starcraft 14+ hours a day, those guys are probably taking it too seriously...
Some people could not care less about competition or "winning/losing" a purely inconsequential imaginary video game and that is completely healthy as well. There are many ways to play a video game as vast as EVE-Online and some people would just rather have fun then try to win all the time. I don't see one group as being more serious about the game, I see two different ways of playing and enjoying the game.
Heck, if no one every tried to get better at games, we would never have computer games, we wouldn't even have checkers or chess. A game is boring if no one cares whether or not they win.
Yes but you can get big clashes between the two types, I had this running a hard core guild (in a game I wont mention)Being serious in a game is more fun for many of us, I don't know why some think it can't be the same thing. I also don't know why they think it's one or the other, it's normal to me to mess around when its appropriate and be serious when it matters. Being not serious ever suggests someone has no care on how their bad play or lack of effort affects others enjoyment. They then go on to claim their right to do so and have full expectation others should agree with then and wonder why people avoid them like the plague.
People have a right to play how they like, others also have the right to react to that the way they see fit.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.03.26 20:04:00 -
[27]
I used to bring this up to the goons now and then. They'd literally spend hundreds of hours planning and organizing ways to annoy people, and then when some random guy who only plays a couple hours a week complained they'd say "it's just a game".
My deepest sympathies.
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.03.26 20:22:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Josh Morgan
Edited by: Josh Morgan on 25/03/2010 02:21:32
Am I the only on the finds the 'It's a game' excuse to be an ironic? Because if you actually try to get good and play a game arent you taking it seriously? I am talking purely philosophical. Any one care to discuss this?
No, the real irony is opportunity costs. Instead of playing this game, you could be doing something serious instead, such as making money, volunteering, or otherwise having a serious/meaningful impact on society.
Instead, by playing this game, you've made the very serious decision to NOT do anything serious or meaningful with your time. And time is a very limited, use it or lose it, scarce resource. Not taking time seriously says some serious things about you and what you consider important in life.
Now excuse me while I run some missions so I can donate some ISK to the local soup kitchen/shelter/job training center.
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"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Kate Machine
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Posted - 2010.03.26 20:30:00 -
[29]
It's a game - I don't take it seriously. Really.
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar
JOKAS Industries
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Posted - 2010.03.26 20:48:00 -
[30]
Life is a game.
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