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Are -7- Slavers?

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Lykouleon Trust Doesn't Rust Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.28 23:48:00 - [31] Originally by: Xina Tutor my poor puppet. Originally by: Xina Tutor The big boys are playing now Just pointing out the most hilarious parts of poor, bitter Xina's last poor attempt at making Sev3rance seem like ~tough guys~ Quote: CCP Mindstar > Sorry - I've completely messed all that up. lets try again
Major Templar Caldari KINGS OF EDEN Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.29 00:17:00 - [32] Originally by: Kazzzi Edited by: Kazzzi on 28/03/2010 22:49:44 I'm not wrong, I said you would have had to renounce your friends CVA. You chose a side, and you remained loyal to your allies. This is commendable, but unfortunately for you, you're alliance dug it's own grave by choosing the side it did. Now Severance must deal with the consequences. Well to say, drop your friends just because your about to lose is wrong. If you feel it's ok to do this, then so be it. But -7- and the people in our circle of friends feel that friendship is above winning any day. Quote: Some of your members may deal with it by b**ing about the situation here on IGS, we all understand this is simply a coping mechanism. They are well past denial, currently in rage, soon they will advance to the acceptance stage and the IGS will be better for it. And I do not see anyone ***ing, in fact most of our members are fine with this because it's just space, we don't need it to be an alliance. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Adida Major Templar Head of Armed Forces Kings Of Eden Sev3rance[/center]
Kazzzi Amarr Iniquitous Technologies Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2010.03.29 01:18:00 - [33] Originally by: Xina Tutor This is all about what Manfred wanted my poor puppet. I worked with Manfred a bit at the beginning of the recent conflict. I can say that this is not what he originally wanted at all, but can you blame him for wanting to make the most of the situation? Originally by: Major Templar Well to say, drop your friends just because your about to lose is wrong. If you feel it's ok to do this, then so be it. Read again bud, I actually find it commendable that you stuck to your guns. Originally by: Xina Tutor But you continue to miss the point. This current attack against providence has nothing to do with slavery at all. No sweetheart, YOU miss the point. Slavery or not, every individual alliances beliefs and reasons for taking your space is irrelevant. They are still taking it.
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.29 01:50:00 - [34] Originally by: Lykouleon Originally by: Xina Tutor my poor puppet. Originally by: Xina Tutor The big boys are playing now Just pointing out the most hilarious parts of poor, bitter Xina's last poor attempt at making Sev3rance seem like ~tough guys~ Yeah. It is pretty funny. UK are now the puppet they always claimed Sev3rance to be. Only they have taken it to the extreme. But at least they have some local fleas to lord over.
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.29 02:00:00 - [35] Originally by: Kazzzi I worked with Manfred a bit at the beginning of the recent conflict. I can say that this is not what he originally wanted at all, but can you blame him for wanting to make the most of the situation? Heh. Well if Manfred wanted to stop he could stop any time he wanted. But he can't of course. This is all about saving face and like many he has an ego to nurse. In any case he just wanted some pets to farm, so they insert some pets and their fleas. Originally by: Kazzzi No sweetheart, YOU miss the point. Slavery or not, every individual alliances beliefs and reasons for taking your space is irrelevant. They are still taking it. Aww. You are sweet. But anyway, you brought up the slavery card. It was you who claimed renouncing slavery was all that was needed. This is incorrect. This conflict has absolutely nothing to do with slavery. That much is fairly simple. Only UK care about the slavery. They were of very little concequence in this conflict.
Xina Tudor Amarr Brown Arrows	Posted - 2010.03.29 02:32:00 - [36] We never had slaves! Neither did our bestest freinds CVA! No slaves in provi evar! AAA and friends is meanie pants for blowing up our humane society for lost slaves which we never had.
Kazzzi Amarr Iniquitous Technologies Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2010.03.29 02:51:00 - [37] Originally by: Xina Tutor It was you who claimed renouncing slavery was all that was needed. Nah, I said you needed to renounce CVA as well, you prolly would have had to do a bit of that diplomacy stuff too. At any rate, I'm sure it's many months too late for anything like that. Not that you would have betrayed your allies anyways.
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.29 03:04:00 - [38] Originally by: Kazzzi Originally by: Xina Tutor It was you who claimed renouncing slavery was all that was needed. Nah, I said you needed to renounce CVA as well, you prolly would have had to do a bit of that diplomacy stuff too. At any rate, I'm sure it's many months too late for anything like that. Not that you would have betrayed your allies anyways. Well yes. Renouncing long time friends to accept a deal to be some -A- playground at their whim would have never have been acceptable, of course. Why give up all ideals and purpose for mere space.
foksieloy Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.29 09:59:00 - [39] Sev3rance turning into the next LFA? Well the illusions of grandeur are there... And lack of common sense... _______________________ We come for our people!
MILK Monk Knights of the Silver Dawn Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.29 10:06:00 - [40] Slaves are comodity. What is wrong with that? __________________________________ I do it myyyy wayyyy... Milky Way.
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.29 10:09:00 - [41] There are still slaves in the UK stations in provi. You guys should get around to freeing them sometime... The toilets are clean now.
Jelzid Caldari GSZ Magnum Opus.	Posted - 2010.03.29 14:30:00 - [42] Edited by: Jelzid on 29/03/2010 14:32:18 Edited by: Jelzid on 29/03/2010 14:31:42 With respect to Ms. Orchidia, this discussion has taken on a slightly different direction than it started with. But I want to address the arguments put forth for the relationship between U'K and the friends of their hated enemy, CVA. You see, I believe that while slavery IS very much the issue here, U'K are using the wrong arguments to condemn -7- alliance. It has already been shown quite handily by Ms. Tutor that -7- and -A- are both outside of the slavery debate in that they likely do not care about it one way or the other. However, both -A- and -7- are friends of the enemy, for CVA and U'K, respectively. Therefore, the argument U'K should be using against -7- is not that they are pro-slavery (even by association, which they are not, anymore than -A- is anti-slavery {edit}). It is merely a convenient consequence of a friendship forged outside the issue of slavery. The argument U'K can rightly and justifiably use against -7- is that they are friends of their slaver enemies, the CVA. Summary: Slavery is a valid issue to employ when it is in fact the issue, when it is not, it is equally valid to employ the 'friend of my enemy' justification for war, which is the real (and perfectly acceptable) reason U'K war on friends of their enemy.
Maggot Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.29 20:05:00 - [43] It is irrelevant to be honest. Supporting slavery with open eyes or blindly will result in the same response from U'K. -7- have actively supported CVA in ops for the last three years including a capital drop in the defence of Karishal's Defiance.
Syyl'ara	Posted - 2010.03.29 20:31:00 - [44] Be cautious demanding such a high standard of morality that nobody, not even yourselves could lay claim to. I'd like to see the exhaustive report exonerating every current member of U'K of ever having supported anything to do with slavery whatsoever. No purchase of goods from a slaver, made with materials supplied by slavers, assembled by an outfit which is indifferent to or indirectly benefits from slavery, etc. Do AAA and all southern bloc members involved in the conflict meet this requirement of never having engaged in mutually beneficial commerce or operations of any kind with any pro-slavery groups? The rationalizations that allow you to declare who is or isn't a supporter of slavers and slavery seem be getting applied rather selectively.
Maggot Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.29 20:57:00 - [45] We will work our way through the slavers and supporters one by one. Our selection is based on our capacity and who our council deems most appropriate in our long term battle. For the last four years it has been the residents of providence. Prior to that we fought the battle in empire. Who knows where the battle will take us to next...personally I expect the battle of Providence is far from over.
Syyl'ara	Posted - 2010.03.30 00:16:00 - [46] Edited by: Syyl''ara on 30/03/2010 00:21:43 Originally by: Maggot Our selection is based on our capacity and who our council deems most appropriate in our long term battle. I see, so when the obvious double-standards and hypocrisy about the whole "anyone even supporting slavery" line of thought are pointed out, you just resort to moving the goalposts. The description now offered of what determines the direction U'K takes sounds, beyond nebulously ambiguous, just like what most other territorialist capsuleer organizations do. I can't say I look forward to U'K making good on its promise made here to turn on its current allies who may have incidentally supported slavery at some point when their a) capacity allows it and b) council says so...but I understand since this moral affront can afford no quarter in consideration as you've clearly made the case for.
Karn Mithralia Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.30 03:16:00 - [47] You seem to have mistaken us for someone who cares what you think. Strangely enough we don't look to IGS for advice on how to best achieve our ends.
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.30 04:43:00 - [48] Originally by: Maggot We will work our way through the slavers and supporters one by one. Our selection is based on our capacity and who our council deems most appropriate in our long term battle. For the last four years it has been the residents of providence. Prior to that we fought the battle in empire. Who knows where the battle will take us to next...personally I expect the battle of Providence is far from over. I guess this translates as... We are waiting for -A- to hit the rest of CVA. We can't do it alone obviously. I'm sure the slaves are waiting patiently... but you think they would be annoyed that other targets were hit first. Well... I'm sure it's not UK's fault. They just had to go with whoever their masters chose to hit first.
Syyl'ara	Posted - 2010.03.30 05:21:00 - [49] Originally by: Karn Mithralia You seem to have mistaken us for someone who cares what you think. Strangely enough we don't look to IGS for advice on how to best achieve our ends. The frequency in which those from your organization appear here to make some refutation or assertion speaks otherwise.
foksieloy Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.30 07:52:00 - [50] Poor Xina. Just because you are an industrial and have no idea how warriors think, does not mean your opinion on war matters. Some people fight for their beliefs, not for ISK. But as an industrial obsessed with bloating her wallet, I am sure you cannot comprehend that. ISK does not make the world go around. _______________________ We come for our people!
Borza Slavak Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.30 09:08:00 - [51] Originally by: Syyl'ara Originally by: Karn Mithralia You seem to have mistaken us for someone who cares what you think. Strangely enough we don't look to IGS for advice on how to best achieve our ends. The frequency in which those from your organization appear here to make some refutation or assertion speaks otherwise. Countering misinformation and slaver propaganda isn't about what you think of us, it's simply defending ourselves from public slander.
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.30 09:21:00 - [52] Originally by: foksieloy Poor Xina. Just because you are an industrial and have no idea how warriors think, does not mean your opinion on war matters. Some people fight for their beliefs, not for ISK. But as an industrial obsessed with bloating her wallet, I am sure you cannot comprehend that. ISK does not make the world go around. Heh... And here I am, can't even fly a hulk. Well. Here is another little reality. The capital ships used by your masters to recently capture systems for you were not built from belief. That took isk. A lot of isk. None can survive on belief alone. I'm afraid isk does indeed make the universe go around, and without that isk your masters put into their war machine, you would still be cloaking in the various corners of providence. And oh, mining in the deep safe systems they allowed you to have. We all fight for our beliefs, but please don't pretend the warrior can exist alone, you are insulting the industrialists in your ranks that allow you the pleasure of battle. Of course Ushra'Khan beliefs appear to have altered recently, watered down as it is by so many who care nothing for it's original mission, but that is another story. Meanwhile... I see some slaves in KBP awaiting freedom. You should see to that.
Borza Slavak Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.30 09:37:00 - [53] Originally by: Xina Tutor Of course Ushra'Khan beliefs appear to have altered recently, watered down as it is by so many who care nothing for it's original mission, but that is another story. You keep saying this, but don't bother to back it up. Because you can't. You're a pathetic yapping little dog, enraged and frightened at the prospect of being kicked out of the yard you've been living in. Keep barking if you like, but nobody's going to pay attention over the noise of the bulldozers.
foksieloy Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.30 10:28:00 - [54] Originally by: Xina Tutor Heh... And here I am, can't even fly a hulk. Ok then, a bantan. Originally by: Xina Tutor The capital ships used by your masters to recently capture systems for you were not built from belief. That took isk. A lot of isk. None can survive on belief alone. I never said on belief alone. But your failing organization is proof you cannot survive on ISK alone. You need beliefs. Originally by: Xina Tutor We all fight for our beliefs You do not seem to be, you seem more worried about the loss of your mining grounds. Poor industrial. You do realize there is some nice veldspar in the empire space? No need to worry that much. So you will earn a bit less ISK, nothing to cry about. Originally by: Xina Tutor but please don't pretend the warrior can exist alone, you are insulting the industrialists in your ranks that allow you the pleasure of battle. Oh I never claimed so. I have nothing but the deepest respect for our brethren that build the machines of war so we can take the fight to our enemies. But do notice, they do not build those machines to grow fat and bloat their wallets. They do so for their beliefs. That is what makes them my dearest friends, and lack of that is what makes you despised as you are. So run now little money grabber, no more money for you here. _______________________ We come for our people!
Stratio Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.30 10:52:00 - [55] Edited by: Stratio on 30/03/2010 10:53:08 It seems some people need reminding just what their CVA friends attitude towards slaves is: Example 1) CVA "nearly ran out of slaves" building an outpost in the Shintaht solar system in Providence. Example 2) "The Amarrian legal and administrative framework however brings competitive advantages such as cheap slave labour and security for commercial shipping that is not available in areas of 0.0" _____________________ For Tribe and Honour!
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.30 11:42:00 - [56] Originally by: foksieloy Ok then, a bantan. A 'bantan' eh.. heh.. never heard of one of those. Originally by: foksieloy I never said on belief alone. But your failing organization is proof you cannot survive on ISK alone. You need beliefs. Well of course 'fail' is a bit rich here. We actually simply stood down when the entire southern coalition came in. Belief is one thing, stupidity is another :) Originally by: foksieloy You do not seem to be, you seem more worried about the loss of your mining grounds. Poor industrial. You do realize there is some nice veldspar in the empire space? No need to worry that much. So you will earn a bit less ISK, nothing to cry about. Well while you worry over a part of the working class, but not all obviously, and are happy that your masters treat their workers as you wish, we fight simply for our peers. Our mission and 'belief' was centered on pilots. I will leave the lessor classes for others to deal with. You say you respect your peers, and yet you seem more concerned with mere mortals. And I must admit I have never mined veldspar, or any mineral to be honest, so you will have to tell me all about it. I have been more concerned with defending space for free pilots to fly in peace while shooting those who would use terrorism to achieve their goals. Originally by: foksieloy Oh I never claimed so. I have nothing but the deepest respect for our brethren that build the machines of war so we can take the fight to our enemies. But do notice, they do not build those machines to grow fat and bloat their wallets. They do so for their beliefs. That is what makes them my dearest friends, and lack of that is what makes you despised as you are. So run now little money grabber, no more money for you here. One little gem here is that, for a time, we achieved our goals in providence. In time we will do so again, either there or in some other space. It was free space where pilots could indeed prosper, even in such poor space. In the meantime you still allow slaves to rot in captivity in KBP station and do nothing about it. So much for your goals. I find it ironic that you scoff at prosperity in such a way, and yet used the prosperity of your fat masters to achieve your goals. And these are fat masters who earned such wealth very easily with very rich moons. Rather humorous indeed. And note also, as predicted, already Providence becomes the wasteland. Good work ;)
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.30 11:53:00 - [57] Originally by: Stratio Edited by: Stratio on 30/03/2010 10:57:23 It seems some people need reminding just what their CVA friends attitude towards slaves is: Example 1) CVA "nearly ran out of slaves" building an outpost in the Shintaht solar system in Providence. Example 2) "The Amarrian legal and administrative framework however brings competitive advantages such as cheap slave labour and security for commercial shipping" It is not about knowing, it is about caring. Most pilots simply do not care about such things. They dont care about slaves and they dont care about other low income members of the working class. This is a reality. Do you forget who we are? CVA is simply an easy target as they are open in their attitude, and yet you ignore the rest of the southern coalition even though they care nothing about slaves and will use the working classes in any way they wish to achieve their goals. You are indeed a strange group I must say. Point over there and continue to sweep the rest under the carpet. It will make you sleep better at night.
Stratio Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.30 12:27:00 - [58] If you do not care, that is your problem; we do care. _____________________ For Tribe and Honour!
foksieloy Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.30 13:07:00 - [59] Just because most pod pilots turned into monsters that consider human life expendable and think of thousands upon thousands of crew members that die during a single skirmish as "I am having fun", that does not mean I have to degrade my morality as well. You are a careless monster that thinks of herself as a God, Xina. I wonder how your God thinks about that. Oh, seeing the destruction laid upon your kin, I think i know how he feels about that. We are the vessels of your Gods wrath, monster. Accept your penance and die. _______________________ We come for our people!
Syyl'ara	Posted - 2010.03.30 16:58:00 - [60] Edited by: Syyl''ara on 30/03/2010 17:00:19 Edited by: Syyl''ara on 30/03/2010 16:59:11 Originally by: Borza Slavak Originally by: Syyl'ara Originally by: Karn Mithralia You seem to have mistaken us for someone who cares what you think. Strangely enough we don't look to IGS for advice on how to best achieve our ends. The frequency in which those from your organization appear here to make some refutation or assertion speaks otherwise. Countering misinformation and slaver propaganda isn't about what you think of us, it's simply defending ourselves from public slander. Which means you do care what we think, or it wouldn't be so important to you to "correct" it. Another example of U'K trying to have it both ways. They "don't care what you think" but want to make sure that you don't believe anything they consider to be false about them. They will not tolerate slavers or their supporters, but ally with slaver supporters while carrying out their plans. They demand you recognize them as the pinnacle of morality, nobility, and compassion, but in a sick twist, I've actually come to the point where it looks to me like they are benefitting from slavery...by constantly cloaking their intentions in the sympathetic plight of those in bondage while making concessions and compromises with slaver supporters that guarantee many more of their cousins are doomed to a life of servitude.

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