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Ka choop	Posted - 2010.03.31 05:28:00 - [1] Edited by: Ka choop on 31/03/2010 05:28:34 I'm pretty new to eve but I don't have a good grasp of pvp yet. I can understand why corporations fight, for territory or for profit. Why people try to protect their systems from unknown people. I also understand what piracy is: killing for profit, to take what any passer by has got for valuables. Cannibals kills others to eat. But what I see a lot in Eve is killing for the sake of killing. Not even for the profit. Are all those people role-playing a psychopath? Gangs of people going from system to system find a random kill. Is there like a big corp: the roaming psychopaths?
Morrn	Posted - 2010.03.31 05:43:00 - [2] The biggest reason to fight, more than any other, is for fun.
Ka choop	Posted - 2010.03.31 06:00:00 - [3] Originally by: Morrn The biggest reason to fight, more than any other, is for fun. You call it fighting but a lot of setups I see are made to kill rather then fight. The fight is done on another level then when the actual shooting. The attacker chooses to engage without much (if any) risk to himself his prey and kills him without much of a fight. If you call that fighting you might as well say that a butcher has a fight with the cattle.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.03.31 06:02:00 - [4] I think the op is confusing eve players with mw2 players.. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! CCP Shadow's Troll List.
Bud Johnson Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.03.31 06:13:00 - [5] Edited by: Bud Johnson on 31/03/2010 06:13:36 Originally by: Ka choop Originally by: Morrn The biggest reason to fight, more than any other, is for fun. You call it fighting but a lot of setups I see are made to kill rather then fight. The fight is done on another level then when the actual shooting. The attacker chooses to engage without much (if any) risk to himself his prey and kills him without much of a fight. If you call that fighting you might as well say that a butcher has a fight with the cattle. Would you risk your ship on a target you didn't know you could beat? Are IRL pirates known for attacking heavily armed navy ships? Also: mod drops+killmail+fun+delicious tears are all damned fine reasons to explode someones internet space assets. You posting this thread is all the reward the average eve player could ask for.
Morrn	Posted - 2010.03.31 06:19:00 - [6] I think I see your problem. You seem to think that people are dueling. We arent dueling in Eve. We shoot to kill. If the purpose is to kill you, then why wouldnt I shape the battlefield to have every advantage I can? In the end, one of us is gonna lose a ship, which will cost one of us isk and time. There are plenty of ganks in Eve. There are also plenty of good fights. But Eve isnt a game where we shoot each other, and then reload the game to start another match while we rub baby powder on each other's butts, telling each other how awesome we are. We set our blasters on face melting full, and do our damndest to kill the other person. You killing me is not fun. Me killing you is fun. You taking my isk and time is not fun. Me taking yours, is fun. Join a decent corp, and you can match the tactics your enemies are using, and suddenly the score will even up.
Ka choop	Posted - 2010.03.31 06:33:00 - [7] Edited by: Ka choop on 31/03/2010 06:34:07 Originally by: Bud Johnson Would you risk your ship on a target you didn't know you could beat? Are IRL pirates known for attacking heavily armed navy ships? Also: mod drops+killmail+fun+delicious tears are all damned fine reasons to explode someones internet space assets. But Pirates kill for profit. Originally by: Morrn If the purpose is to kill you, And killing for the sake of killing is what a psychopath does.
m3rb3aSt Minmatar Advanced Component Research Enterprise SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.03.31 06:33:00 - [8] There will always be tons of fighting when you cannot truly die. Now if there was permadeath in eve, you would see a lot less people fighting just for the sake of fighting!
Pesky LaRue Minmatar Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels	Posted - 2010.03.31 06:50:00 - [9] Originally by: Ka choop Originally by: Morrn The biggest reason to fight, more than any other, is for fun. You call it fighting but a lot of setups I see are made to kill rather then fight. The fight is done on another level then when the actual shooting. The attacker chooses to engage without much (if any) risk to himself his prey and kills him without much of a fight. If you call that fighting you might as well say that a butcher has a fight with the cattle. that's what you're missing. hunters don't consider shooting a deer that is essentially defenseless "a fight", they consider it "a hunt followed by a kill" . [Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels]
Bud Johnson Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.03.31 07:01:00 - [10] Originally by: Ka choop Edited by: Ka choop on 31/03/2010 06:34:07 Originally by: Bud Johnson Would you risk your ship on a target you didn't know you could beat? Are IRL pirates known for attacking heavily armed navy ships? Also: mod drops+killmail+fun+delicious tears are all damned fine reasons to explode someones internet space assets. But Pirates kill for profit. Originally by: Morrn If the purpose is to kill you, And killing for the sake of killing is what a psychopath does. In eve a few cheap mods+tears is profit. It is a game, BTW. Psychopaths kill people not imaginary space pixels.
Sarajo	Posted - 2010.03.31 07:45:00 - [11] To the OP defense; he talks about roleplaying a psychopath. Besides, if you were immortal, should you die you just wake up in your bed (remember that movie groundhog day?) would you not go bat**** psycho on some people just to see what happened? I think I would :)
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.03.31 08:17:00 - [12] Originally by: Ka choop And killing for the sake of killing is what a psychopath does. Perhaps you should look up psychopath in the dictionary or the dsm because it is fairly apparent you do not know what the term means. People who want to fly combat will take any fight they can get because fights are hard to get. Another reason to destroy someone "just because" is so that they will come back someday in a real ship and we'll get a better fight. Everyone posting seems to grasp the fact this is a PvP video game and not real except for Ka choop, so maybe the problem is with you Ka choop? Originally by: Jim Raynor EVE needs danger, EVE needs risks, EVE needs combat, even piracy, without these things, the game stagnates to a trivial game centering around bloating your wallet with no purpose.
Lexx Khadar Minmatar Tourian Guard	Posted - 2010.03.31 09:07:00 - [13] Edited by: Lexx Khadar on 31/03/2010 09:09:40 Edited by: Lexx Khadar on 31/03/2010 09:07:33 Originally by: Ka choop Originally by: Morrn The biggest reason to fight, more than any other, is for fun. You call it fighting but a lot of setups I see are made to kill rather then fight. The fight is done on another level then when the actual shooting. The attacker chooses to engage without much (if any) risk to himself his prey and kills him without much of a fight. If you call that fighting you might as well say that a butcher has a fight with the cattle. Theres nothing wrong with that. Why would you risk your ship in a battle if you thought the odds were slim of you winning? If your fighting fair your doing it wrong in eve. Edit: And please please stop using real life, ill informed examples to try to explain players behaviors.
Cat o'Ninetails Rancer Defence League	Posted - 2010.03.31 09:08:00 - [14] hi cat here well i have my opinions on pirates lol and it is mostly that they dont even have souls and stuff like that. i mean what kind of people are we talking about where it is there favorite thing to mercilessly gank innocent traveleers instead of help and protect? i for one think that new eden would be best without the scourge of pirates who just like to try and ruin peoples day. that is why it is one day my dream to make the whole of eve safe against pirates so people can just go about their productive business. but yeah to answer your question pirates are prolly pyschos lol but i think they just need some love (or maybe my pirate rehabillitation programme) and they can perhaps be good people again lol xxx
Jill Xelitras	Posted - 2010.03.31 09:52:00 - [15] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails but yeah to answer your question pirates are prolly pyschos lol but i think they just need some love (or maybe my pirate rehabillitation programme) and they can perhaps be good people again lol I fully agree with Cat on this one. I blame the UI for pushing people into a dark mood. Have you had a look at the standard themes you can select from ? All dark, gloomy and depressing ! Where's the light blue or pink ? Luckily you can set your colors manually. I'll provide you with the RGB values if you want. Jill.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2010.03.31 09:53:00 - [16] Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 31/03/2010 09:55:55 On the internet, he who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man in real life. Eve gankers are just extension of the long established internet trolls, which is why many eve players who gank "for teh lulz" are the first to point and laugh at any victim who has a problem with it and and advise them that they are a "n00b" and to vacate the forums. Ganking in Eve is very much like real life rpe. Yeah, I said it. You can be minding your own business doing whatever, when suddenly you find yourself attacked, held down so you can't escape and then violently penetrated until you die or (if in highsec) a pack of cops come running and shoot your attacker in the head. And to paraphrase the experienced Eve player response to this, they say: "But you lose nothing except time and effort. Your worldly goods are an illusion and you shouldn't get so upset over a game. You should also learn how to protect yourself so you can avoid further 'incidents'", They say while licking their lips at the sight of your freshly penetrated psyche while they look forward to the day they catch you alone when the wind is blowing in their favor and they've prepared to take full advantage. That you should learn how to survive and protect yourself is the most sage advice any Eve player can give you and you'd be an idiot not to take it. But the idea that Eve is just a game with illusory assets that mean nothing in the end does nothing to wash away the emotional trauma a player who doesn't like pvp can experience when they're ganked and they don't see it coming and don't know how to survive. "Trauma? LOL! gtfo n00b & gb 2 WoW!" That's the reaction I'll certainly get for painting the picture above. But that doesn't matter. Whether your life and your assets are real and material or an electronic illusion makes no fundamental difference; people can still feel 'rped' by the experience. And that's the price we pay for a completely new and separate universe called the internet which runs parallel to the physical one. There is no right and wrong for people in a world they cannot perceive as being with consequence, like watching a real person die if you shoot them or suffer if you grievously wound them. But when it happens to us and we're the victim, if we haven't learned to cope with it (and I think everyone should), then we feel the effects of an illusory attack as if it were in real life. And Eve online affords perfectly good and ethical human beings with an opportunity to cut loose and do whatever they feel like because it is just a game and none of it is real. But if those same people don't train themselves to detach from the illusion and recognize the game for what it is, the game will still hit them like fists up bodily holes they never even knew they had. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Merouk Baas	Posted - 2010.03.31 10:31:00 - [17] Originally by: Arthur Frayn rope Would you write a similar treatise on the positive effects of finding fulfilling love in romancing a WoW avatar? Because, I mean, it would be the same type of exaggerated emotions and taking fantasy as reality as you have in this post. Games are like vaccines: we use them to learn, and they don't do the full damage that the actual virus would do.
Jill Xelitras	Posted - 2010.03.31 10:47:00 - [18] Originally by: Merouk Baas Originally by: Arthur Frayn rope Would you write a similar treatise on the positive effects of finding fulfilling love in romancing a WoW avatar? Because, I mean, it would be the same type of exaggerated emotions and taking fantasy as reality as you have in this post. Games are like vaccines: we use them to learn, and they don't do the full damage that the actual virus would do. Oh yes, more love is needed in eve and hopefully supplied once Incarna goes live. I plan on opening a bar in a station not to far away from Rancer (lol), I shall call it Temple Of Love. Jill.
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop	Posted - 2010.03.31 10:48:00 - [19] i'd rather meet psychos in game than in real life. sadly, some just don't get enough of a kick out of playing. ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel
Andrea Erlang Caldari The Severed Hand Asylum	Posted - 2010.03.31 11:01:00 - [20] yes, let's all stop killing each other, hold hands and sing songs together in EVE... ...and then we can go play something else... Let's face it, this is the reason we play EVE, because it sure isn't the PvE content.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.03.31 11:09:00 - [21] Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 31/03/2010 11:11:16 Ka choop, In Eve there is rather a large minority of players that play to cause "tears" and make other people mad. They use the game as a tool to bully. But don't call them sociopaths because it makes them mad. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Angry Poster	Posted - 2010.03.31 11:16:00 - [22] Originally by: Ka choop The attacker chooses to engage without much (if any) risk to himself his prey and kills him without much of a fight. The trick is to get in to the situation where you don't have any risk and the other guy dies. This is not WOW where the fight is decided by mashing buttons in the correct order - the fight is usually won or lost long before the first shot was ever fired. It's what makes EVE the best MMO out there. If it were only about the actual fighting (pressing F1-F8) then it really wouldn't be all that interesting. It's all the steps that lead up to pressing F1-F8 that make EVE great. And if you're looking for "fair" PVP then you should organize or take part in one of the many PVP-contests. That's where you might find fair 1 VS 1 or small gang VS small gang PVP. In "real" PVP this only happens very rarely (because it's inefficient to risk ISK when you could just as well out-smart your enemy and gank them risk-free).
000Hunter000 Gallente Industrial Exploits Massive Intergalactic Love Klub	Posted - 2010.03.31 11:18:00 - [23] Originally by: Bud Johnson Are IRL pirates known for attacking heavily armed navy ships? Yes, yes they are!!! stoopid piwates ________________________________________________
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.03.31 11:30:00 - [24] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 31/03/2010 11:32:55 Originally by: Angry Poster It's what makes EVE the best MMO out there. If it were only about the actual fighting (pressing F1-F8) then it really wouldn't be all that interesting. It's all the steps that lead up to pressing F1-F8 that make EVE great. Generally true. But often you just have to take risks to get a fight - if you take only the absolutely safe fights you are going to miss a fair number of opportunities to get a kill (or more). Opportunities to get a kill sometimes come and go before you've had the time to cover all corners, so the old adage - no risk, no profit - holds true to some extent. People who try to reduce risk by outnumbering their targets have to share any profits made, as well. Correctly judging the risks involved and having a plan how to win will very often see you through even in a not so one-sided fight. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Angry Poster	Posted - 2010.03.31 11:37:00 - [25] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Angry Poster It's what makes EVE the best MMO out there. If it were only about the actual fighting (pressing F1-F8) then it really wouldn't be all that interesting. It's all the steps that lead up to pressing F1-F8 that make EVE great. Generally true. But often you just have to take risks to get a fight - if you take only the absolutely safe fights you are going to miss a fair number of opportunities to get a kill (or more). Opportunities to get a kill sometimes come and go before you've had the time to cover all corners, so the old adage - no risk, no profit - holds true to some extent. However, correctly judging the risks involved and having a plan how to win will very often see you through even in a not so one-sided fight. Of course you are right. It's no fun if you only fight when you know you'll win. And a certain degree of risk is always involved when undocking. But I'm just trying to explain to the OP that EVE is not about "fair" fights. It's about using whatever means necessary to reach ones goals (and if that involves risk-free mass murder then what's a girl to do about it?)
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.03.31 11:39:00 - [26] Originally by: Ka choop But what I see a lot in Eve is killing for the sake of killing. Not even for the profit. because we can CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D
Wen Alis	Posted - 2010.03.31 11:54:00 - [27] Originally by: Ka choop But what I see a lot in Eve is killing for the sake of killing. Not even for the profit. Are all those people role-playing a psychopath? Gangs of people going from system to system find a random kill. Is there like a big corp: the roaming psychopaths? First of all the killing that happens in game if all virtual. If you ever played first person shooter games, killing various monsters or opponents that stand in your way to progressing through the game can hardly be called a psychopathic activity. Yet it is killing for the sake of killing - you can as well drop the game and not kill. If you play chess you will regularly be killing bishops, kings and queens of your opponent. But does this make you a calculating unfeeling psychopath in real life? People of sound mind see very good distinctions between in-game "killing" and real life world kind of killing. Killing in EVE is simply an expression of desire to compete. Why do people desire to compete? Because nature has hardwired us for it. Our monkey-like ancestors has to compete with other species as well as with each other within social groups for survival. Those who had no desire to compete died out and their genes did not get passed on. Scroll a few millions of years forward and you have the modern human individual, born with natural desire for competition, born to always be striving to achieve, to never feel fulfilled, to experience happiness only on rare occasions, to always seek to establish own identity and place in this world. MMO games, or any other games in fact, are designed to tap into people's real life psychological needs that have formed during this multi-million year evolutionary process, and EVE is no different. Coming back to killing for sake of killing. The kind of evolutionary hardwiring for competition I described above made sense on overall evolutionary scale, but it does not mean that it is always works and is always logical. In fact, humans have changed the world by quite a bit over the past couple thousand of years but because any significant changes in our population's genotypes and phenotypes take hundreds of thousands of years to develop, what you have is humans living in a world with which they are not quite in tune in evolutionary sense. This has brought up a whole array of situations where our primal instincts misfire so to say. Here is one such situation: you see a cyno-kestrel. A ship of little value and no potential threat to yourself. Some impulse immediately tells you to gank it. You can't even understand why. Well it is a mis-firing in your brain, an expression of what primal instinct to compete and deter another individual, to block his progress, to put yourself at the top. In this case of course it makes absolutely no logical sense to do it, but you have to remember that human behavior is not always logical and a good portion of it is hardwired because that gave your ancenstors better chance of survival in completely different situations. Realize that and then it will all start making sense to you without you having to evoke some kind of modern-day psychological terms and definitions that are simply not applicable to virtual worlds.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2010.03.31 12:07:00 - [28] Originally by: Merouk Baas Originally by: Arthur Frayn rope Would you write a similar treatise on the positive effects of finding fulfilling love in romancing a WoW avatar? Because, I mean, it would be the same type of exaggerated emotions and taking fantasy as reality as you have in this post. Games are like vaccines: we use them to learn, and they don't do the full damage that the actual virus would do. I would certainly write a treatise on the negative effects of finding what one would claim for themselves to be fulfilling love in romancing a WoW player, because I see none that are positive. My initial post was to point out that although people need to learn to separate online fantasy from reality and detach their emotions from it, I also think that it's not as easy as it sounds. Any kind of mmo or online romance at all is an absolute step in the wrong direction. It's not just admittance of an emotional attachment to the illusory, it's an embrace of it and a final rejection of the real world. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
DXYOC	Posted - 2010.03.31 12:24:00 - [29] What about the guys who play FPS's are they psychos too? Roaming just to find something to fight semes fun IMO.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2010.03.31 12:33:00 - [30] Originally by: DXYOC What about the guys who play FPS's are they psychos too? Roaming just to find something to fight semes fun IMO. FPS's are fast and loose and nothing is really invested by playing them. You don't spend hours in a FPS gaining resources to build or buy the best gun ever. Most of the time you find it on the ground and when you get killed, the turnaround time to get back where you were before is very fast. A MMO where you invest time and effort into building yourself up makes you ripe for all kinds of other players to tear you down because there are no moral consequences. They don't have to feel bad, as they might if they physically stabbed a person and stole their wallet because in the ganker's mind, the victim really loses nothing. The trick is for the victim to realize deep down that they lost nothing and this will free them from feeling like the gankers are all psychos who should be punished. -- Eventus stultorum magister.

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