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The upcoming changes with Tyranis and mineral compression

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Wu Marusyn	Posted - 2010.04.03 14:27:00 - [1] Hello everyone many of you must have read already the dev blog with the upcoming changes regarding NPC T1 drop rate. I don't want to get into whether this is right or wrong, what I want to do is to point out that until now, the T1 loot was a nice way to compress minerals for convenient transport throughout the empire. Now that it will be gone, it will be much more difficult to transfer large amounts of minerals in the Empire. Do any of you feel that it is the right time to consider (once again) mineral compression (similar to the Rorqual in an Orca, whatever) in empire?
Emporer Norton	Posted - 2010.04.03 14:44:00 - [2] Didn't say anything about the reprocess amount changing just would have to build to items to transport then reprocess Originally by: Wu Marusyn Hello everyone many of you must have read already the dev blog with the upcoming changes regarding NPC T1 drop rate. I don't want to get into whether this is right or wrong, what I want to do is to point out that until now, the T1 loot was a nice way to compress minerals for convenient transport throughout the empire. Now that it will be gone, it will be much more difficult to transfer large amounts of minerals in the Empire. Do any of you feel that it is the right time to consider (once again) mineral compression (similar to the Rorqual in an Orca, whatever) in empire?
Wu Marusyn	Posted - 2010.04.03 14:52:00 - [3] Originally by: Emporer Norton Didn't say anything about the reprocess amount changing just would have to build to items to transport then reprocess I agree that the best way to go would be to build let's say XL ammo and transport it and then refine it at destination. However, whoever does mass T1 production knows that building in the Jita system, where highest volume trading occurs, is impossible. Therefore, in order to do this, you should buy the minerals in Jita and transport them to a near system with reasonable waiting times. The amount of minerals just for 10 battleships is more than 4 freighter trips. That's why I believe that we need an alternative way to compress.
Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2010.04.03 14:56:00 - [4] And your point is? "Mineral compression", as it now stands, involves using the minerals to build something where the final volume is many times lower than the volume of the minerals used to make it. You currently cannot manufacture in or near Jita, so the discussed alterations won't change a thing if it's implemented. Or are you saying that you were using dropped T1 loot from missions as a source of pre-compressed minerals for your building products? ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
Wu Marusyn	Posted - 2010.04.03 15:08:00 - [5] Buying T1 items with high compression rate and refine them at destination where the production lines are is a known way to transport minerals. This will be disrupted with the upcoming expansion. I believe that several T1 manufacturers will have the same problem when the time comes. That is my point. We need to get an alternative to compress the minerals, that does not involve manufacturing.
Di Mulle	Posted - 2010.04.03 15:22:00 - [6] Originally by: Wu Marusyn We need to get an alternative to compress the minerals, that does not involve manufacturing. I can't see anything resembling changes to manufacturing itself in a devblog.
Wu Marusyn	Posted - 2010.04.03 15:29:00 - [7] ok, next time, try to trasport from Jita 4-4 the 390293530 Tritanium that is part of the minerals needed to build 10 megathrons. I would appreciate if anyone else posts, to do it in a constructive way and to have a clue what I'm talking about. Otherwise please disregard, lock the post or whatever
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.	Posted - 2010.04.03 15:29:00 - [8] Nothing's changed with compression rate of any module, just the drop rate of loots. Most of those loots, you can purchase the BPO and build the modules yourself for compression. Store \| Get SRS
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.04.03 15:48:00 - [9] If only there were corporations that did hauling or mineral compression as a business. That would be great. Maybe someone will start up such businesses
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.04.03 15:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Wu Marusyn ok, next time, try to trasport from Jita 4-4 the 390293530 Tritanium that is part of the minerals needed to build 10 megathrons. As insurance fraud wont be possible for a while you can mothball your tiny little enterprise right there..
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.04.03 17:06:00 - [11] Rarely does do you see someone insist so thoroughly at being noob as the OP did through out this thread. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Maven Deltor	Posted - 2010.04.03 17:16:00 - [12] I've never tried the math before, so I could be wrong. Please advise me if I am (I'm sure you guys will) ;) Anyhow, You're talking about MINERAL compression, and in the same sentance, say "Rorqual". I just want to point out that the Rorqual doesn't compress MINERALS. It compresses ORE. The compression ratio for veldspar is 16650 m3 down to 417 m3 (used haladas mining guide for those numbers). 16650 m3 of veldspar refines into 50,000 units of trit, which is 500 m3. The point I'm making is, Rorquals compress ore so they can carry ore to be refined with more efficiency. Rorquals do not compress ore because compressed ore takes less space than the minerals said ore would refine to. So, to answer your question; ORE compression in empire is a complete waste of time. You can get 100% refine in most high sec systems. Your post seems to be more about creating a new system for compressing minerals, which is nothing like ore compression, or anything currently in the game. And for my opinion on that, I'm not really for it. Yes, making 10 megas takes many freighters full of minerals. That's the cost of business. If you're really lazy, hire someone. The cost to have someone else haul the minerals for you shouldn't even be 10% of your profit.
Olusegun Obasanjo Minmatar CENTRAL BANK OF NIGERIA	Posted - 2010.04.03 21:03:00 - [13] Originally by: Maven Deltor I've never tried the math before, so I could be wrong. Please advise me if I am (I'm sure you guys will) ;) Anyhow, You're talking about MINERAL compression, and in the same sentance, say "Rorqual". I just want to point out that the Rorqual doesn't compress MINERALS. It compresses ORE. The compression ratio for veldspar is 16650 m3 down to 417 m3 (used haladas mining guide for those numbers). 16650 m3 of veldspar refines into 50,000 units of trit, which is 500 m3. The point I'm making is, Rorquals compress ore so they can carry ore to be refined with more efficiency. Rorquals do not compress ore because compressed ore takes less space than the minerals said ore would refine to. So, to answer your question; ORE compression in empire is a complete waste of time. You can get 100% refine in most high sec systems. Your post seems to be more about creating a new system for compressing minerals, which is nothing like ore compression, or anything currently in the game. And for my opinion on that, I'm not really for it. Yes, making 10 megas takes many freighters full of minerals. That's the cost of business. If you're really lazy, hire someone. The cost to have someone else haul the minerals for you shouldn't even be 10% of your profit. everyone point and laugh at the clueless person
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.04.03 21:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Olusegun Obasanjo everyone point and laugh at the clueless person Well.. I wouldn't be that mean, but it's funny for sure Maven, you should take reading 101. The OP is right with mineral-compression. His problem obviously is that if the larger T1 modules get removed from loot the minerals they contain will need to be traded in raw form, be it Ore or Mins (that the source switches isn't of his concern or that miners are stuffed atmo). And then he goes on about his little 10 ship per week program, which needs a handfull of mins to stay afloat and that there is 'no possibility' to compress the mins in Jita 4-4 (as in building modules with the mins, where as the kick here is that volume mins >>> volume module built out of those mins, this is called MINERALcompression) CCP nerfed that a bit years back.. Capital Jumpdrive Modules where king for that if I remember correctly.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles	Posted - 2010.04.03 21:58:00 - [15] Originally by: Breaker77 If only there were corporations that did hauling or mineral compression as a business. That would be great. Maybe someone will start up such businesses Confirming that I have not yet spotted anything in the blogs that would be likely to disrupt my business. If anything, I would expect something of a boost in sales (at least to customers outside the drone regions ). I would also add that the quantities of modules that people need for any serious compression (i.e. a supercap worth of minerals) are generally not available on the market or on public contracts at any one point in time; they need to be bought up over days or weeks of intensive 0.01-ing, incurring sales tax and broker fees. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression
Mikelangelo Gallente	Posted - 2010.04.04 04:02:00 - [16] You can still build T1 modules for compression of minerals. Previous poster was right however, if you want to move a significant amount of materials (for a supercap for example), it will take not only a bit of time to move the stuff, but also to buy it (incurring fees), and build it. It can be done however in a reasonable amount of time, given enough skills and alts and brainpower. The really cool thing about EVE is that players are often incredibly creative, and find ways around the inherent limitations and/or developer vision(s). It has happened time and again, and it WILL happen again.
NotActuallyFrench	Posted - 2010.04.04 11:38:00 - [17] Originally by: Breaker77 If only there were corporations that did hauling... waits for someone to post a long advertisement for Red Frog
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.04.04 14:28:00 - [18] Originally by: Tres Farmer His problem obviously is that if the larger T1 modules get removed from loot the minerals they contain will need to be traded in raw form Why? What is stopping people producing pre-compressed minerals in the form of various manufactured items and hauling those? People who were previously buying certain items because those were the best form of compression for the minerals they were after can continue to post buy orders for those items. Now we get the manufacturers stepping in and manufacturing those items instead of having NPCs drop them, allowing mission runners to provide a far-too-large portion of the mineral inflow into the game. [Aussie players: join channels ANZAC or AUSSIES]
Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2010.04.04 16:28:00 - [19] It sounds to me as if the OP buys all his minerals (currently in T1 mod form) in Jita 4-4, ships them 1-2 jumps away to where there's a station without a backlog of jobs on the factory slots (everyone tries to build in Jita, just so they can sell from the build spot, so it's full), reprocess them into minerals on site, and then use them to build Megathrons. Now he's concerned that he won't be able to buy the modules cheap and will instead have to buy minerals that must be shipped over to wherever he's building. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
Michel Licari Gallente No Trademark Killboard Online	Posted - 2010.04.05 06:29:00 - [20] Originally by: Wu Marusyn ok, next time, try to trasport from Jita 4-4 the 390293530 Tritanium that is part of the minerals needed to build 10 megathrons. I would appreciate if anyone else posts, to do it in a constructive way and to have a clue what I'm talking about. Otherwise please disregard, lock the post or whatever 390mil Trit to build 10 megathrons? Right...
Maven Deltor	Posted - 2010.04.05 22:47:00 - [21] Edited by: Maven Deltor on 05/04/2010 22:56:03 Edited by: Maven Deltor on 05/04/2010 22:52:40 My whole sarcasm about rorqual and mineral compression was missed Yea, I get creating items to "compress" minerals. The OP is talking about making a system that isn't in the game atm. Using an orca or some such. I was saying it's the cost of business. That's not clueless, that's just saying get over it. Moving minerals is part of business.
Baka Lakadaka Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.04.06 04:00:00 - [22] I know it's crazy and radical and stuff, but there are other markets besides Jita. Do we really need to give people more reasons to stay in Jita? IMO this is something that might cause a few people to get OUT of Jita and do some mineral trading outside 'the system'. I'll let you in on a little secret - there are people out there who will sell their minerals to you a little cheaper, just so they don't have to fly them all to Jita. Try looking in your own corner store, instead of going to Walmart. ______________________ Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University.
Olusegun Obasanjo Minmatar CENTRAL BANK OF NIGERIA	Posted - 2010.04.06 06:37:00 - [23] Originally by: Maven Deltor Edited by: Maven Deltor on 05/04/2010 22:56:03 Edited by: Maven Deltor on 05/04/2010 22:52:40 My whole sarcasm about rorqual and mineral compression was missed Yea, I get creating items to "compress" minerals. The OP is talking about making a system that isn't in the game atm. Using an orca or some such. I was saying it's the cost of business. That's not clueless, that's just saying get over it. Moving minerals is part of business. everyone point and laugh at the backpedaler
ISellThingz	Posted - 2010.04.06 07:00:00 - [24] Producing T1 modules might just be worth it again.
Drexciyian The Water Margin Tech	Posted - 2010.04.06 10:11:00 - [25] Originally by: Michel Licari Originally by: Wu Marusyn ok, next time, try to trasport from Jita 4-4 the 390293530 Tritanium that is part of the minerals needed to build 10 megathrons. I would appreciate if anyone else posts, to do it in a constructive way and to have a clue what I'm talking about. Otherwise please disregard, lock the post or whatever 390mil Trit to build 10 megathrons? Right... Yeah.. idk maybe he's building from a me -10 bpo or something lol, for the record its around 75mil?
Wu Marusyn	Posted - 2010.04.06 10:37:00 - [26] Edited by: Wu Marusyn on 06/04/2010 10:37:51 Originally by: Drexciyian Originally by: Michel Licari Originally by: Wu Marusyn ok, next time, try to trasport from Jita 4-4 the 390293530 Tritanium that is part of the minerals needed to build 10 megathrons. I would appreciate if anyone else posts, to do it in a constructive way and to have a clue what I'm talking about. Otherwise please disregard, lock the post or whatever 390mil Trit to build 10 megathrons? Right... Yeah.. idk maybe he's building from a me -10 bpo or something lol, for the record its around 75mil? guys, come on, ok i did a typo, thats not the point I'll refer you to this to get an idea of what i'm trying to say, cause many of you don't. Removal of T1 drops from NPC does affect the current mineral transport system, especially battleship and capital builders. And I agree that it is not difficult for the manufacturer to build T1 modules to transport. However this is not possible in Jita system since all the lines are constantly taken. Anyway, please lets drop it, that's the reason I havent posted a reply since Saturday. we'll figure out a way to keep our lines busy eventually
ISellThingz	Posted - 2010.04.06 11:23:00 - [27] Edited by: ISellThingz on 06/04/2010 11:24:40 You don't have to produce them yourself, just be prepared to pay more for the modules or widen the buy orders. I'm pretty sure there's people willing to produce those and haul them to Jita so lazy people like you can buy them. Actually, I might start doing that myself if the profit goes up.
Wu Marusyn	Posted - 2010.04.06 11:54:00 - [28] so you think I'm lazy huh? Just because there is a way to cut the 10+ trips to one and I want to use it, that makes me lazy? And no, I dont want to cut a piece of the pie to other parties cause its already small. As I said me and the other bulk producers will figure out a way.
fallback1	Posted - 2010.04.06 21:15:00 - [29] Originally by: Wu Marusyn so you think I'm lazy huh? Just because there is a way to cut the 10+ trips to one and I want to use it, that makes me lazy? And no, I dont want to cut a piece of the pie to other parties cause its already small. As I said me and the other bulk producers will figure out a way. Personally, I wouldn't call it 'lazy' persay. I just think you're a wee bit slow in the head. You aren't listening to the responses. Loot dropping less is not equal to manufacturing/reprocessing changing. What you are talking about IS NOT CHANGING. But what would make me think my telling you this will work any better than the 4 or 5 people before me that told you... /shrugs Ok, plan B: To fix the problem, we should buff falcons.

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