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Phosphorus Palladium	Posted - 2010.04.06 12:54:00 - [1] ...that 0.0 players are willing to take orders from their "superiors" in a game, and high-sec players are not.
Bongo Debbie Minmatar Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.04.06 12:57:00 - [2] You completed EVE! Congratulations. Game Over. ----
Phosphorus Palladium	Posted - 2010.04.06 13:00:00 - [3] Originally by: Bongo Debbie You completed EVE! Congratulations. Thank you, Lady Spank.
Namira Sable	Posted - 2010.04.06 13:05:00 - [4] I don't get it. Please elaborate.
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2010.04.06 13:11:00 - [5] Well OP, it looks like you're bowing in my general direction so I guess I know where you live lol --- Even though you might disagree with what I say, that doesn't automatically make me a troll.
Phosphorus Palladium	Posted - 2010.04.06 13:13:00 - [6] Originally by: Namira Sable I don't get it. Please elaborate. In high-sec you find many freelancer types. Doing their own thing. In 0.0 you find many group players, mostly organized in strictly hierarchical order.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2010.04.06 13:39:00 - [7] Edited by: Marko Riva on 06/04/2010 13:44:16 Makes sense, to a point at least. Me personally I refuse to be used, milked, yelled at by an idiot, having to deal with annoying alliance members and being told what to do, what to lose my ships for and how I should spend my time. I dislike blobs and I'm not very good at being a number. I REALLY refuse to act as a meatshield for some CEO's POS's and then having to be happy about it shouting "YES SIR, MAY I LOSE ANOTHER SHIP FOR YOU, SIR!". Don't get me wrong I like putting in effort, teamwork and attention to detail and all that but only if I share that experience with likeminded, knowledgable non-idiot other players who aren't out to fek me over, and to find a whole alliance of non-idiots, non-*****s is uhm... yeah. So I'd rather spend my time doing my own thing on a small scale in a small group of people and do things in a way I can agree with. The OP does have a point indeed. p.s. 0.0 is full of carebears, blobbers, miners and POS w*es. People who kling WAY too much to their assets, the status quo and the holy isk making. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service
Derelicht	Posted - 2010.04.06 13:44:00 - [8] Originally by: Phosphorus Palladium ...that 0.0 players are willing to take orders from their "superiors" in a game, and high-sec players are not.
FarosWarrior Amarr Sonnema	Posted - 2010.04.06 13:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Phosphorus Palladium Edited by: Phosphorus Palladium on 06/04/2010 13:27:22 Originally by: Namira Sable I don't get it. Please elaborate. In high-sec you find many freelancer types. Doing their own thing. In 0.0 you find many group players, mostly organized in strictly hierarchical order. This is a simple observation and might seem obvious. But it does put the carebear vs pvper discussion in question. If my observation is correct, it could be that the carebear percentage of the population in 0.0 and high-sec is similar and that the main difference between these regions lies more in group vs freelance style of play. I will state that the number of carebears (percentage-wise) in highsec is ALOT higher then those living in nullsec, if I am wrong on this statement I can understand since I've not done any research into this. But I guess the reason behind all the freelancers in highsec is simple, in highsec you can do whatever you want in relative safety, in nullsec, the quote "Safety in numbers" usually counts, and unorganized numbers are bad, organized numbers aren't bad. And thus, more peeps in nullsec take orders to survive, in highsec such things aren't needed (most of the time tho) cheers, Faros Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Adida "As long as we're jammed we might as well throw those 1400mm's at them" Charlie Fodder, Clear Skies
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.04.06 14:36:00 - [10] If CCP made 0.0 an environment where one could freelance I'd be there. Unfortunately, 0.0 is not that environment. So, I'm not there. All CCP would have to do to change that would be to allow one to leave a cloaked support ship like an orca or rorqual cloaked while one goes off in something else to do whatever. I would do it in a heart beat. Unfortunately, that requires an alt which I do not have or care to have.

Culmen Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.06 14:44:00 - [11] and further more why do i even need a sig?
Phosphorus Palladium	Posted - 2010.04.06 14:53:00 - [12] Edited by: Phosphorus Palladium on 06/04/2010 15:02:38 Originally by: FarosWarrior I will state that the number of carebears (percentage-wise) in highsec is ALOT higher then those living in nullsec, if I am wrong on this statement I can understand since I've not done any research into this. I have had characters in three 0.0 alliances so far. My experiences are as follows: 0.0 Alliance 1: We were the good guys. Anti-piracy and such. Our turf had decent resources, which led to a lot of people trying to get rich there. Whenever I saw a group of hostiles close by I mentioned this on the alliance intel channel, hoping for the forming of a group to do some pew-pew with them. Mostly this did not happen, since people were too busy carebearing. Our territory then came under attack by a larger hostile entity, as a result, the alliance leadership made a deal with the invading forces to backstab some of our former allies in order to be not attacked by the invading force. I had a good say in the corp I was in, and since I am not a friend of backstabbing, we left the alliance. I would approximate the percentage of carebears that were in 0.0 alliance 1 at 80%. 0.0 Alliance 2: We were the ruthless bad guys. Killing for the fun of it. Our turf had decent resources, which led to a lot of people trying to get rich there. We rarely had intrusions into our space, so to do some killing, we had to go roaming around. Of the people online, a maximum of 20% came along on the non-mandatory roams. The other 80% carebeared. Some day, the alliance leadership decided to stop the roaming into our neighbors space and instead became allies with them. This led to most of us interested in pvp becoming inactive. I would approximate the percentage of carebears that were in 0.0 alliance 2 at 80%. 0.0 Alliance 3: I was invited into that alliance, due to having made a name for myself in Alliance 2. I accepted the invitation because alliance 2 had become a boring napped bunch of 0.0 carebears. With allaince 3, we went into a large war, and I experienced alarm clock ops and large fleet frustrations. I did like alliance 3, due to this alliance being the first alliance I had been in, which had a truly high percentage of pvpers. I still like that alliance btw. But large fleet battles and territory related fighting (at that time pos-bashing), are a highly questionalbe experience. I found that I had much preferred the fight style of the roaming gangs of alliance 2. As a consequence, I left alliance 3. I would approximate the percentage of carebears that were in 0.0 alliance 3 at 20%. I hope that CCP sometime allows the more independent pvp types like myself a decent opportunity in 0.0. I am convinced that a lot of people in high-sec would venture into 0.0 if a more independent playstyle had a higher chance of success there. How to achieve this, I do not know. But I am fairly certain that CCPs policy of putting more riches into 0.0 with each expansion, will not lead to higher numbers in 0.0. Instead, it may turn people who are in 0.0 already into 0.0 carebears.
Nicholas Barker Black Nova Corp IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.06 14:57:00 - [13] You never see freelance players in 0.0 ------ 0800-LAG-A-NODE
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2010.04.06 15:01:00 - [14] Originally by: Phosphorus Palladium In high-sec you find many unsociable types. Doing their own thing. In 0.0 you find many group players, mostly blobs in strictly hierarchical order. sorry what? - Malyutka (The Virus) -
Phosphorus Palladium	Posted - 2010.04.06 15:06:00 - [15] Originally by: Nicholas Barker You never see freelance players in 0.0 The only player I would call freelance type I met in 0.0 was DHBWildcat. Obviously the guys uses multiple accounts. Still much repsect to him for beating the odds on a regular basis.
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2010.04.06 15:26:00 - [16] Originally by: FarosWarrior Originally by: Phosphorus Palladium Edited by: Phosphorus Palladium on 06/04/2010 13:27:22 Originally by: Namira Sable I don't get it. Please elaborate. In high-sec you find many freelancer types. Doing their own thing. In 0.0 you find many group players, mostly organized in strictly hierarchical order. This is a simple observation and might seem obvious. But it does put the carebear vs pvper discussion in question. If my observation is correct, it could be that the carebear percentage of the population in 0.0 and high-sec is similar and that the main difference between these regions lies more in group vs freelance style of play. I will state that the number of carebears (percentage-wise) in highsec is ALOT higher then those living in nullsec, if I am wrong on this statement I can understand since I've not done any research into this. But I guess the reason behind all the freelancers in highsec is simple, in highsec you can do whatever you want in relative safety, in nullsec, the quote "Safety in numbers" usually counts, and unorganized numbers are bad, organized numbers aren't bad. And thus, more peeps in nullsec take orders to survive, in highsec such things aren't needed (most of the time tho) Your post is probably word-for-word the "common knowledge" the OP is trying to put to rest. It isn't that hisec is safe and therefore carebear friendly so much as it is that hisec allows freelancers. Nullsec carebears just come in different forms. Playstyle chooses location.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.04.06 15:35:00 - [17] Alarm clock ops. This is (one of) the reason(s) I won't be setlling in null sec. There are exactly three groups of people in the world that get to wake me up in the middle of the night. The first one I gave birth to, the second one I married, and the third pays me by the hour to carry a pager. Anyone else that expects me to get up while I'm sleeping had better have a reason that involves a natural disaster of such epic proportions that the term 'biblical' could be applied. --Vel Originally by: Jiseinoku Mining is the path to enlightement.
Cailais Amarr British Armoured Division	Posted - 2010.04.06 15:38:00 - [18] The true difference between no-sec and high-sec players is... One clone jump. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
zombiedeadhead Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.04.06 15:39:00 - [19] Go to Low-Sec.
Phosphorus Palladium	Posted - 2010.04.06 16:06:00 - [20] Edited by: Phosphorus Palladium on 06/04/2010 16:12:20 Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame It isn't that hisec is safe and therefore carebear friendly so much as it is that hisec allows freelancers. Nullsec carebears just come in different forms. Playstyle chooses location. Yes, pretty much. I made this thread, because somehow I have the suspicion that quite a few people subscribed to eve with the freelancer idea in mind. And high-sec is the best location to play eve freelancer style, thus it is so highly populated. Actually, the original dev team that made eve, stated that a well known space game featuring the idea of freelancing (the name can not be mentioned here because of rule 17) - was one of the inspirations for the creation of eve-online. I do think eve could gain a lot by giving more opportunities to freelancers outside of high-sec. As I said earlier, I do not know exactly how this can be achieved, but I do think it is a direction that the devs may want to look into.

Tobias Xiaosen Gallente TX Holdings Company	Posted - 2010.04.06 16:06:00 - [21] Originally by: Nicholas Barker You never see freelance players in 0.0 Im a freelance 0.0 player! Syndicate still counts, right? --- My sig got nerfed so I need a new one
Phosphorus Palladium	Posted - 2010.04.06 16:17:00 - [22] Originally by: Tobias Xiaosen Originally by: Nicholas Barker You never see freelance players in 0.0 Im a freelance 0.0 player! Syndicate still counts, right? Oh yes. Syndicate definatly counts! Care to share what your freelancing activities there are? Pirating, exploration...? Are you allied or friendly to local groups there, or do you realy go on your own? Do you maintain a high-sec char for financing, or do you make your living there? Tell us a little more, would be interesting to hear about your experiences.
Tobias Xiaosen Gallente TX Holdings Company	Posted - 2010.04.06 16:53:00 - [23] Originally by: Phosphorus Palladium Edited by: Phosphorus Palladium on 06/04/2010 16:20:13 Oh yes. Syndicate definatly counts! Care to share what your freelancing activities there are? Pirating, exploration...? Are you allied or friendly to local groups there, or do you realy go on your own? Do you maintain a high-sec char for financing, or do you make your living there? Do you use multiple accounts or just a single one? Tell us a little more, would be interesting to hear about your experiences. Welllll.... Currently I just do ratting and exploration, nothing too too special. I intend to do solo PVP out there eventually but I need to build up an ISK nest egg and resources first. I'm only blue to one corp in the area, and that's just because I did a couple anoms with one of their players. In my neck of the woods it is so devoid of life that I rarely see more than a couple players when I play. I can even play for 4 hours straight in the same system and be the only person there the entire team. Its kinda creepy and cool that way. For the most part Im entirely solo. I make my living out there, and this is the only character, only account I use. Logistics is a friggin nightmare though, which is why Im training up for transport ships at the moment. --- My sig got nerfed so I need a new one
Davanev Hraldirsson	Posted - 2010.04.06 17:08:00 - [24] My main is currently a hisec carebear and has been for while. Started playing back on 06 and have done lowsec, hisec 0.0, POS wars - whatever. Frankly the OP is right, at least as far as I am concerned. My patience with being a good little alliance drone ran out even tho I was in a decent corp for the first 18 months of my eve life with some great corpmates. The politics, the whining, the sheer amount of wasted playing time being in a 0.0 alliance requires wore me out.
Phosphorus Palladium	Posted - 2010.04.06 17:09:00 - [25] Originally by: Tobias Xiaosen Welllll.... Currently I just do ratting and exploration, nothing too too special. I intend to do solo PVP out there eventually but I need to build up an ISK nest egg and resources first. I'm only blue to one corp in the area, and that's just because I did a couple anoms with one of their players. In my neck of the woods it is so devoid of life that I rarely see more than a couple players when I play. I can even play for 4 hours straight in the same system and be the only person there the entire team. Its kinda creepy and cool that way. For the most part Im entirely solo. I make my living out there, and this is the only character, only account I use. Logistics is a friggin nightmare though, which is why Im training up for transport ships at the moment. That is pretty cool. Thanks for sharing. Best of luck to you. Could be because when I was in 0.0 I was always in alliances, that I underestimate the possibilities for a freelancer type in 0.0. Time to try it out for myself.
Kasmir Caritas.	Posted - 2010.04.06 17:19:00 - [26] Players with lives outside of eve, and those without. Most of us have been there. You take a couple weeks off eve then come back to find yourself docked in a hostile system in an uber ship and find your 0.0 corp has turned into selfish carbears that are whining about their barge that just got ganked while they were solo mining. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Magesto Caldari Radiant shield Radiant Force	Posted - 2010.04.06 17:24:00 - [27] that may be true in alot of cases, but not necessarily the case for all. my case for instance, i "do my own thing" because im in afghanistan right now, and my internet isnt always reliable enough to group up with too many people, and my toon stays in high sec because i dont know when the next time in going to be able to log on is going to be. and i dont want to be out of the loop for 6 months, come back into 0.0 undock and have my balls handed to me when im trying to relearn wtf im doing. know what i mean? *CHECK PLEASE!*
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.04.06 17:27:00 - [28] Edited by: Cipher Jones on 06/04/2010 17:27:31 Originally by: Culmen This. Take the forums down, this is =v=. This is clearly a signature.
Wu Phat	Posted - 2010.04.06 18:10:00 - [29] Will You have to Break Null sec up. All Null sec is diffrent. Sov Null sec wehre you can gain control and upgrade and benfit from the great rang of resources it has Moon goo and all. Then there is NPC Null sec. Stain,Syndacite,Curse,Great Wildlands and there are regions with patchs of Npc faction held systems. These null sec's give you the best of both worlds type thing. Will since there NPC owned you get Missions or you can run missions for that faction that owns that station, area,region if you have the standings. This is where you turn in LP For Vendactors & Domination Gyro's. Also think Lp gain is much higher here. You also find ccp's Epic arc's which are missions to. The thing is since your in null sec poeple can blow you, camp you with bubbles Etc... Resources don't differ here then Empire and the True sec of these area's are really S.H.I.T. Can't upgrade Cause you can't control Npc Space. Stations are free to live in you do get Sanctums & Heavens to do Ded Plex's 10 of 10's. If you want to be in null sec with out the headaches and the stress of Sov null sec. Pvp when you want and have a twist of empire by doing missions here and there. NPC null sec space is where you need to go.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.06 18:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Culmen This, pretty much. (Pic shows respect) FakeEdit: 5 minute timer shows me no respect.

PeHD0M	Posted - 2010.04.06 18:42:00 - [31] People try to play where their "fun per hour" value is at maximum. For me it is hi-sec. I like the gameplay with freedom of choices and "no obligations".
Taxesarebad	Posted - 2010.04.06 18:46:00 - [32] the diffrence is null sec players cry about no targets for pvp and highsec doesnt
inVictu5 Globo Gym Purple Cobras	Posted - 2010.04.06 19:07:00 - [33] Quote: p.s. 0.0 is full of carebears, blobbers, miners and POS w*es. People who kling WAY too much to their assets, the status quo and the holy isk making. ^^ I thought I would get into some real pvp moving to 0.0. Pfft was I wrong. Joining a 0.0 alliance is like joining the military instead of college. You'll have stories of how you worked 18 hour days for 12 months non-stop to win 1 major victory. Meanwhile Im in college having a blast charging rails and watching your sister put on a "show" with her sorority girls. Here at Globo Gym were better than you! And we know it**
Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.04.06 19:13:00 - [34] Originally by: De'Veldrin Alarm clock ops. This is (one of) the reason(s) I won't be setlling in null sec. There are exactly three groups of people in the world that get to wake me up in the middle of the night. The first one I gave birth to, the second one I married, and the third pays me by the hour to carry a pager. Anyone else that expects me to get up while I'm sleeping had better have a reason that involves a natural disaster of such epic proportions that the term 'biblical' could be applied. You won my "Amberlamp's best read award!" Your post was one of the best I have read in many months and is how a response should be constructed. The general content was fantastic however this particular quote won it for you. Quote: Anyone else that expects me to get up while I'm sleeping had better have a reason that involves a natural disaster of such epic proportions that the term 'biblical' could be applied. The sheer hilarity involved in such arrangement of words created a post that was readable more than once. I congratulate you.... ...Congratulations
Trader20	Posted - 2010.04.06 19:17:00 - [35] Edited by: Trader20 on 06/04/2010 19:18:25 I would call these "freelancer" types the underdogs of Eve online and underdogs usually get a stampeded by bigger and badder forces. Now stop trying to be the underdog and start being the opportunist. Learn to adapt, gain trust, and **** ppl over and do it all for self profit/self gain. Who cares if u have to take orders for a while, it will be worth it in the end. Also I love running a 50+ man gate camp train on "rebels" like urself, make u guys so angry. p.s. all 3 of ur alliances suck
Midori Tsu Problematique Inc.	Posted - 2010.04.06 21:04:00 - [36] I live in 0.0 with my corp. I think that if you want to enjoy the pvp in 0.0, you have to get in a small corp that lives out there. Which I don't think there is many out there. Also, 0.0 is full of carebears who like to take risks. From what I hear, being in an alliance in 0.0 is pretty bad and comes with a huge set of rules to go by. Thats something I'll never want to live by.
DigitalCommunist November Corporation	Posted - 2010.04.06 22:45:00 - [37] ATTENTION HIGH SEC CAREBEARS WHO MAKE LOUSY RATIONALIZATIONS FOR WHY THEY CONTINUE BEING HIGH SEC CAREBEARS: You stay in high sec for months and years, suckling the teat of CONCORD and its sentries. You grind repetitive missions and play Spreadsheets Online just to watch your hoard of pixels and digits grow to no real purpose. You haven't the slightest clue on forming relationships, living with ever-present threats or competing against anything sentient. But above all else, you don't take responsibility for your own entertainment - choosing instead to rely on your agent, your CEO, or the next CCP expansion. And thus one day, it shall become painfully clear to even the most dim witted of people that perhaps they could try using all these things collected as if they were tools to achieve goals. CRAZYNESS, I KNOW. Of course, carebears being what they are, it is in their nature to avoid any real risk or effort in the quest for massive rewards. So they herd into these big 0.0 groups wanting instant gratification and glory without any of the tedius "empire building". Only they end up getting pushed and pulled around by some vocal megalomaniac with no particular vision beyond 'get power, post on CAOD, cash out'. And they swallow that pill, because years of being some NPCs errand girl has indoctrinated them with passive-aggressive obedience - and the instinctive tendency to swallow first and ask questions later. After a while though, people begin to realize how much this sucks. A small few become actively engaged and decide to think about how to win wars, secure goals, and claim the future - you know, without being told its okay to do so by High CommandÖ. They usually end up running the show when the old guard gets burned out and embittered. The rest get culled, and either drop out of the game entirely or flee back to Empire when their herd of spacesheep gets sheared in some massive and utterly meaningless war. No doubt this demographic is boasting about freedom from the shackles of tyranny on the boards, and lubing up for Saonellieu Baerse' 9 inch Intaki loyalty stick as we speak. tl;dr - people who play MMOs as multiplayer > people who play MMOs as singleplayer (++ALWAYS AND 4EVER++ (COLORS COS I CAN))
Ephemeron Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates	Posted - 2010.04.06 22:51:00 - [38] Edited by: Ephemeron on 06/04/2010 22:52:31 Originally by: Phosphorus Palladium In high-sec you find many freelancer types. Doing their own thing. In 0.0 you find many group players, mostly organized in strictly hierarchical order. This is a simple observation and might seem obvious. But it does put the carebear vs pvper discussion in question. If my observation is correct, it could be that the carebear percentage of the population in 0.0 and high-sec is similar and that the main difference between these regions lies more in group vs freelance style of play. I live in 0.0 I live rather independently. I don't take **** from anyone. If some blue guy pisses me off I kill him. That got me booted from various alliances more than once. A hardcore freelancer can always survive and prosper in 0.0, in the regions with NPC stations
Dark Lightening	Posted - 2010.04.06 22:54:00 - [39] Back in the day I spent months on end solo out in Syndicate. Dodging gate camps, ratting in dead end systems, etc. It can be done out of NPC stations, but it isn't an easy thing to pull off. In 0.0 the advantages of strength in numbers, and even just having an intel channel, are enough to justify following some orders.
Tobias Xiaosen Gallente TX Holdings Company	Posted - 2010.04.06 23:00:00 - [40] Edited by: Tobias Xiaosen on 06/04/2010 23:01:15 Originally by: DigitalCommunist RAINBOW RANT Digital, as much as I agree with your stance, it simply isn't feasible all the time. Regardless what anyone says I value RL more than Eve life. Unfortunately, RL makes it impossible for me to do anything but solo stuff in Eve. So, for me at least, I remain a freelancer (for the time being at least). --- My sig got nerfed so I need a new one

Boomershoot Caldari Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.04.06 23:11:00 - [41] Originally by: DigitalCommunist ALWAYS I WANT TO BE WITH YOU AND MAKE BELIEVE WITH YOU AND LIVE IN HARMONY HARMONY OH LOVE
Phosphorus Palladium	Posted - 2010.04.06 23:19:00 - [42] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Nicely written post, decorated by truly amazing colors! To your surprise I do not think you are too far off the truth there in most cases. It is mainly your tldr that I can not agree with. Since eve is partly based on a spacegame classic (rule 17 forbids mentioning the name) which was built around the privateer or freelancer, it just may make sense to not put these types in eve in a "single player" corner. Eve is an mmo. A freelancer or privateer in an mmo can be involved in market pvp, player pvp etc. Interaction one way or the other with others in the mmo is more than likely. The stance that eve should only be for the sheep or the shepherds (group players) is contradictory to the free sandbox idea. Ask yourself why high-sec is so crowded. Is it realy because all high-sec players are completely risk adverse? Or may CCP be missing something here?
Orephia	Posted - 2010.04.06 23:58:00 - [43] Originally by: Phosphorus Palladium Or may CCP be missing something here? When I became interested in EvE, my focus was and remains as a solo/freelancer player, partly for all the reasons so clearly given above, and partly because in this intentionaly dark & moody universe, the only one I can really trust, at least at first, is my alt. But still wanting something close to that level of trust in a human co-player, I recently asked my son if he was attracted to it. He said he was thinking of trying out Dust when it arrives, but that although the player driven market in EvE provides a real temptation to him, there were other issues he didn't care for & would have to pass. When I asked him what the problem was, he said "the Devs are griefers"
DigitalCommunist November Corporation	Posted - 2010.04.07 00:17:00 - [44] Oh wow, ice-burned this thread so hard it turned serious. Originally by: Phosphorus Palladium Ask yourself why high-sec is so crowded. Is it realy because all high-sec players are completely risk adverse? Or may CCP be missing something here? "HE DOESN'T GET ECONOMICS!" Two thirds are in empire because the income level is good enough to obtain anything and everything at a reasonable pace. You train skills and lose ships at a certain rate, and being able to get money faster - at way more effort and risk - represents diminishing returns since you're unable to use it in any meaningful way. Most people don't start off as carebears and would transition to dangerous areas naturally under different economic circumstances in pursuit of wealth and wenches. But by the time they decide to move on by their own volition, the damage is done: they have expensive ships, clones and implants, bloated wallets, no experience and a year or two of assumptions built around EVE Lite. Freelancing, playing solo or playing casually does not equal playing the game as singleplayer and demanding to be isolated from consequences and player interactions in the sandbox, as most carebears often do. Its the oldest known carebear fallacy, and it even predates the Sotiyo-Urbaata Drive.
Phosphorus Palladium	Posted - 2010.04.07 00:41:00 - [45] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Oh wow, ice-burned this thread so hard it turned serious. Originally by: Phosphorus Palladium Ask yourself why high-sec is so crowded. Is it realy because all high-sec players are completely risk adverse? Or may CCP be missing something here? "HE DOESN'T GET ECONOMICS!" WHERE DID YOU GET THAT PICTURE OF MY BABES? Originally by: DigitalCommunist Two thirds are in empire because the income level is good enough to obtain anything and everything at a reasonable pace. Where did you get those statistics? Originally by: DigitalCommunist Most people don't start off as carebears and would transition to dangerous areas naturally under different economic circumstances in pursuit of wealth and wenches. But by the time they decide to move on by their own volition, the damage is done: they have expensive ships, clones and implants, bloated wallets, no experience and a year or two of assumptions built around EVE Lite. People who have skills and wealth also have jump-clones. As such implants become a non-issue. How do people who have played eve-non-lite successfuly and still venture back into high-sec because they dont like fleet battles, alarm clock ops, alliance politics, taking orders in a game etc. fit into the picture you paint yourself of high-sec players? Might it be that there is open potential in the game design to make 0.0 more attractive to those freelance type players? Originally by: DigitalCommunist Freelancing, playing solo or playing casually does not equal playing the game as singleplayer. Agreed. At the same time I can not see how anyone plays eve as a singleplayer game. Remember the butterfly effect?
AdmiralJohn The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.07 00:47:00 - [46] Edited by: AdmiralJohn on 07/04/2010 00:51:07 I really wish I was the type of person to enjoy 0.0 space. The opportunities for fun there are way better than anything in Empire. In practice, though, the alliances who live there suck all the fun out of it. I'm not one to be pushed around, or yelled out for not X-ing up, or the litany of other srs bsns that goes on out there. I don't play Eve solo. I have my corp with friend I met in Eve (I know none of them IRL) and we have a great time. However, the whole 0.0 scene is impossible to come to terms with on my play style. I play to have fun for myself, not to be screamed at over an MMO. I don't like solo play, but the only form of relaxed group stuff I can do comes in empire space, whether high or low sec. EDIT: Yes, I have been in several 0.0 alliances. I left, because I couldn't stand alarm clock ops (didn't go), or having to give up my play time for someone else's fun. In a way, I'm forced into Empire, because 0.0 is unlivable for anyone who has a life.
genette devo Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.04.07 01:05:00 - [47] 2 brands of elitism in the same thread, awesome. playing in highsec doesn't mean you are a rugged individualist, playing in 00 doesn't mean you are a superleet pvp god. people play different places for different reasons, personally I have tried 00 and lowsec groups, they didn't interest me, usually they didn't have a plan beyond Yarrr lets fight people, or hey lets rat in 00, fighting for the sake of fighting doesn't interest me, neither does ratting, or waging war so the ceo or aliance leader and his clique can get rich on moon goo, what I like to do is devise a plan, exploit trends play markets off each other and profit, I see combat as a means not an end, the best place for me to operate is the border where empire and lowsec meet, so I stay there. the whole 0.0 vs carebear rivalry is a played out as nerd vs jock........
Orephia	Posted - 2010.04.07 01:12:00 - [48] Originally by: Phosphorus Palladium Might it be that there is open potential in the game design to make 0.0 more attractive to freelance type players? wh space seems to be the 0.0 game design that is attractive to freelance players. Income opportunities, no fleets/blobs, but still the chance of relatively even-odds pvp. It's better suited to small corps, but I meet solo pilots living in wh. & some of the small corps in wh space are freelancer types that just banded together to share the logistics burden in order to have the kind of semi-autonomous environment they would like in the game. There are many players that would like more solo 0.0 opportunities. It seems that CCP is coming around to this, slowly.
Usagi Tsukino Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.04.07 01:27:00 - [49] Originally by: De'Veldrin Alarm clock ops. This, tbh, is why I came back to HS from 0.0 oh so many years ago. I was bored doing missions and while my corpies were a friendly lot, they were folks who were cool with risk aversion. I was interested in PvP, so off I went. Hooked up with a corp in Curse, back before there was real Sov, pew pew'd... Realized it sucked not being able to play when I wanted to, but when THEY needed me to. Came back to empire, quite for a while, the methadone wore off and I came back to EVE, carebeared, did some high sec wars, then got at first, wardec'd by STIM, then they started to help us and I found out what small gang PvP was really like... It's like fapping in maple syrup tbh. I don't know how you people can 300+ blob... Anyway, TL/DR 0.0 w/o any real goal is kinda awesome. Sorry I'm not as colorful as DC, but that guy's been around a bit longer than me and I wouldn't think of disrespecting him by stealing his bit.
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.04.07 02:43:00 - [50] The OP is pretty much right although he left out low sec players which also fall in the independent thinker group for the most part. Ive been in a quite a few 0.0 Alliances and most of them want you to be a drone because thats what makes a 0.0 alliance strong. Yes they like leaders too, but they dont have room for independent types for obvious reasons. Sure care bears dont go to 0.0 but neither do most people who like to play on their own terms. The game is structured to make it exceptionally hard to profit in 0.0 independently(but yes it can be done,) Wherever you went - Here you are.

Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.04.07 03:20:00 - [51] Posting pics of hot giggling girls to slam someone on the internet is know known as a "DC". Ex/ Hey dudez, did you see that awesome DC posted on EVE-O yesterday? Originally by: Jim Raynor EVE needs danger, EVE needs risks, EVE needs combat, even piracy, without these things, the game stagnates to a trivial game centering around bloating your wallet with no purpose.
John Baum Caldari Long Dong Corp United Front Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.07 04:19:00 - [52] Originally by: Culmen Oh god that is soooooo true
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.07 04:26:00 - [53] Pff… it's very simple. One group of people know the strategies required to stay alive and complain bitterly when those turn out not to work. The other group does not and complain bitterly when that doesn't turn out to work either. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Mocam	Posted - 2010.04.07 06:14:00 - [54] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Culmen This, pretty much. (Pic shows respect) FakeEdit: 5 minute timer shows me no respect. The pictures are off a bit. Pic 1: Missing from the background: a pedophile wearing a rain coat, staring longingly at the baby. Pic 2: Bad. Should be a dark alley with eyes peaking out towards the brightly lit street and the hint of other shapes hiding in the dark. Pic 3: About accurate from all I've heard. Kiss up or kiss off.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2010.04.07 07:37:00 - [55] Edited by: Marko Riva on 07/04/2010 07:42:17 . ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service
Bado Sten Minmatar Republican Guard	Posted - 2010.04.07 08:28:00 - [56] Staying freelance in NPC 0.0 is perfectly viable. I've lived in Stain for years, and am happy with it. Am blue to one alliance and one corp, both old friends. Neutral to everyone else. I only fly what I can afford to lose, and keep myself with enough ISK by ratting and doing missions plus a little industry. Then I go hunting until enough ships have got blown up. Now and then I go back to my low-sec home for a change, but basically doing the same there.
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. Reckoning.	Posted - 2010.04.07 09:12:00 - [57] Edited by: Opertone on 07/04/2010 09:13:51 I started eve as a freelancer, spent my first 3 months alone from my corp members. I roamed the low sec looking for higher bounty BC rats, made friends with local pilots and met a few future acquaintance. Later on, I became a member of newly formed corporation which I found in the recruitment channel... This corporation disbanded quicker than I expected. This was a major let down, I gave up eve for almost 12 months. When I resubscribed to eve, I grew more focused on the goals and got on board of a 0.0 alliance... The alliance kicked out for the lack of skills 2 weeks after. I had to keep looking for a better home, one of the Northern alliances picked me up... I got attached to the North ever since. That first one was a complete disaster with disorganized and corrupt leadership and helpless pilots. Switching alliances later didn't change things much, most of the members were focusing on generating ISK and Raw Materials, whereas leadership profited on exporting the goods to the empire and charging local trade tariffs. At one point in game, I met semi organized enthusiast pilots who fought for 'the king of low-sec' title with pirates and their kind. Small group action was fun enough and didn't involve any routine activities. All in all I was more a freelance type of player, who would not rely on anyone in building his 'small enterprise'. I have had too many acts of betrayal and corp thievery. Any amount of accumulated wealth attracts reavers and scum. Your best friend would take your CNR and vanish if you let him controls. Space exploration and research activities are my favorite course of action.

CCP Navigator C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.07 11:26:00 - [58] As a player I have been in several large alliances, large corporations, small corporations and NPC corps. Maybe I have been lucky but the larger alliances seemed to work well together but with the sheer volume of players it is sometimes difficult to feel like your place in that group matters. Large corporations feel much more like a family as you all work together for common goals. The same is true for smaller corporations but you can sometimes find that you are the only person logged in at times which negates the community/family aspect. NPC corporations are pretty chill though. The chat channels are usually a mix of raw players and seasoned veterans who do their very best to help new players understand markets, fittings and politics within EVE until they are confident enough to find their own home. I guess it is simply each to their own and what play style you prefer Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

TheLordofAllandNothing Caldari United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2010.04.07 11:43:00 - [59] I play in 0.0 because i get to pvp and get reimbursed for dieing when doing so! Some people are in 0.0 for pvp, others for indy, others for managing an alliance, others for...it's a sandbox people, get that round your heads. Stop crapping in other peoples sandbox, they pay their $ to ccp, they can do what they like. (The 5 minute timer is crap, make it 2 minutes if anything at all ) _______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =(
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.04.07 11:49:00 - [60] Phosphorus Palladium said "Where did you get those statistics?" CCP's QEN's mention numbers some of which are very interesting. It was something like 70% of players are in empire. Somewhere around 10 or 15% of players are in 0.0 and very few people lose ships in combat PvP suggesting few people PvP. I think the average was 1 ship per month per account. I think it was 10,000 ish players in wormhole space the lowest populated area. You have to read the QEN's for accurate numbers. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2

Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.04.07 12:03:00 - [61] Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing (The 5 minute timer is crap, make it 2 minutes if anything at all ) Just as crap as Pottseys quoting. But I just dont understand people actually do alarm clock ops, have spent quite some time in 0.0, and also no one who really expected it from me. If some corp would expect it from me, i would just refuse.
Serpents smile	Posted - 2010.04.07 12:18:00 - [62] Originally by: Furb Killer Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing (The 5 minute timer is crap, make it 2 minutes if anything at all ) Just as crap as Pottseys quoting. Oh man. That sometimes makes me wanne pull out my hair! Just wish Pottseys stopped grieving us. Anyway, never mind me, back on topic.
Ick Ickagami	Posted - 2010.04.07 12:31:00 - [63] 1. Alarm Clock Ops. Get up at 2am local to save(or not) some tower somewhere that, if lost, would just be regained again any friggin way. 2. RED LINE Alarm Clock Ops. That means you show up at 2am local, or the Alliance heads tell your CEO to boot you from your corp, and your CEO has NO say in the matter. 3. Blue lists. The whole point of the game is PvP. Huge NAP fests, ever growing blue lists equals blue balls for PvP. And shooting a "blue" is a guaranteed kick out of your corp. So much for "more pew pew" in nullsec. 4. Politics. Oh my God, the politics. This CEO knows more than that CEO, you have to fly Alliance Approved equipment or else you get harrngued, badgered and eventually kicked from the corp at the direction of the Alliance heads because you aren't "hard core enough" to have spec V in every category and an large enough RL wallet to buy plex for ISK to blow on getting expensive ships popped as a meatshield in a 300+ v 300+ blob fest. That's just the short list. Nullsec is for two kinds of people. Little Dictators with Napoleon Complexes that run the large alliances, and the mindless droids who act as meatshields just so they can brag about how they are 'leet' because they are in IT or AAA or whatever flavor is 'winning' this week.
Bonny Lee Caldari The Guardian Agency Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.04.07 12:45:00 - [64] Originally by: Ick Ickagami Nullsec is for two kinds of people. Little Dictators with Napoleon Complexes that run the large alliances, and the mindless droids who act as meatshields just so they can brag about how they are 'leet' because they are in IT or AAA or whatever flavor is 'winning' this week. Perhaps Nullsec is home for players of that kind... BUT: - there also live players who like to have a home and defend it against their enemys - its for players who dont want to live in safe space but also like to earn some good money - its for people who like to do plexes, radar sites, etc. - its for people who like to fight in large fleets, use their titans, supercarriers, dreads and carriers - its for people who like to mine some good stuff - its for people who like to build some really huge ships - its for people who like to place a landmark in form of a built outpost whicht will stay forever in game - its for people who like to be involved in politics, in diplomacy and so on - its for carebears - its for hardcore-pvp-players - its for drama, scams, litte wars, big wars, small fights, big fights - 0.0 can do all this for you it all depends on where you want to live, how you want to play and if you are in a good or bad corporation. You never lived in 0.0 if you reduce it to those little points which are only a very limited part of 0.0 players and 0.0 gameplay. In my opinion 0.0 gameplay is so wonderful and i cant live for a month in empire without the feeling i have to go back to 0.0 soon.
Antihrist Pripravnik Gallente 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.07 15:40:00 - [65] Originally by: Culmen http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll195/nakieon/eveonlinetruths.jpg I knew someone will post this But seriously. 0.0 is not about listening to some idiot, as someone said, that has a higher rank. A quote from Fight Club: "You are not a beautiful and unique flower...". You must accept that someone, somewhere is smarter than you and have more experience than you and his intelligence and/or experience is already noticed. That person will most likely be your superior in 0.0 ... until your achievements and/or skills show that you can be superior to someone (just like in the picture ). And one other thing, you don't lose your ships in 0.0 alliances - those alliances have a nasty habit of reimbursing your lost ship
Ick Ickagami	Posted - 2010.04.07 15:46:00 - [66] Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik .......And one other thing, you don't lose your ships in 0.0 alliances - those alliances have a nasty habit of reimbursing your lost ship Now THAT is a lie. One of the largest alliances ( THE largest now? ) in the game has a policy of specifically NOT doing that, unless you fly an approved ship with approved fittings on those very rare ops when the Alliance head decrees that those specific ships ONLY will be reimbursed. The rank-and-file meatshield puppet drone does NOT get his/her/its ship back...............not from THAT alliance. They expect you to be , and I quote, a "hardcore gamer with multiple accounts and a large wallet for buying PLEX to get ISK for your ship losses", unquote.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.04.07 15:58:00 - [67] Edited by: Rakshasa Taisab on 07/04/2010 16:01:11 Originally by: Ick Ickagami 1. Alarm Clock Ops. Get up at 2am local to save(or not) some tower somewhere that, if lost, would just be regained again any friggin way. Then don't log in. Originally by: Ick Ickagami 2. RED LINE Alarm Clock Ops. That means you show up at 2am local, or the Alliance heads tell your CEO to boot you from your corp, and your CEO has NO say in the matter. Get a real CEO, not a spineless wuzz. Originally by: Ick Ickagami 3. Blue lists. The whole point of the game is PvP. Huge NAP fests, ever growing blue lists equals blue balls for PvP. And shooting a "blue" is a guaranteed kick out of your corp. So much for "more pew pew" in nullsec. If you want Pew Pew go ahead; make them red. Any idiot who shoots a blue should pay back the cost of the loss plus extra for the trouble and/or be kicked. The reason why one can operate day-to-day business in 0.0 is because shooting blues results in such harsh measures and ostracizing. (You can go ahead and safe up every time a blue passes your system if you want) Originally by: Ick Ickagami 4. Politics. Oh my God, the politics. This CEO knows more than that CEO, you have to fly Alliance Approved equipment or else you get harrngued, badgered and eventually kicked from the corp at the direction of the Alliance heads because you aren't "hard core enough" to have spec V in every category and an large enough RL wallet to buy plex for ISK to blow on getting expensive ships popped as a meatshield in a 300+ v 300+ blob fest. Stop hanging out with dimwits? As George Carlin once said; You get the leaders you deserve. That is to say, people of similar character often group together and if your leaders are such *******s it is quite likely that the member-base are the same.
Io Callisto	Posted - 2010.04.07 16:37:00 - [68] Originally by: Phosphorus Palladium ...that 0.0 players are willing to take orders from their "superiors" in a game, and high-sec players are not. ...and the "Do IT Yourself" Lobotomy kits are real handy for sitting in blobs for hours at a time, watching the BSOD with all the fascination of a 2 year old eating jello pudding, and counting how many times an egotistical FC can cram the F-bomb into his current tantrum.... oh yeah, baby, I live for that.
Orree Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.04.07 17:27:00 - [69] Originally by: Ick Ickagami Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik .......And one other thing, you don't lose your ships in 0.0 alliances - those alliances have a nasty habit of reimbursing your lost ship Now THAT is a lie. One of the largest alliances ( THE largest now? ) in the game has a policy of specifically NOT doing that, unless you fly an approved ship with approved fittings on those very rare ops when the Alliance head decrees that those specific ships ONLY will be reimbursed. The rank-and-file meatshield puppet drone does NOT get his/her/its ship back...............not from THAT alliance. They expect you to be , and I quote, a "hardcore gamer with multiple accounts and a large wallet for buying PLEX to get ISK for your ship losses", unquote. I agree with you. I don't think ship replacement programs are necessarily the norm in 0.0 alliances. In my experience, alliances that can afford to offer them do so, however. While I have participated in alliances and corporations that have offered some sort of replacement policy for various types of ships, I've never once availed myself of any kind of replacement benefit. I place a fair amount of importance on being self-sufficient. Even though living in 0.0 as part of an alliance is essentially a team sport, I think it's important for individual pilots to be as self-sufficient as possible. This thread is kinda funny. Everyone is looking at things through the lenses of their own bias and representing their opinions as being facts. Typical, I guess...still makes me chuckle, though. People actually putting forth the idea that NAPs and blocs lead to limited or no availability of PvP. LOL..yeah...PvP of any flavor is so hard to find in 0.0. Stop it... ---------- "How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli
RedMenace Reid	Posted - 2010.04.07 17:41:00 - [70] Originally by: Ick Ickagami Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik .......And one other thing, you don't lose your ships in 0.0 alliances - those alliances have a nasty habit of reimbursing your lost ship Now THAT is a lie. One of the largest alliances ( THE largest now? ) in the game has a policy of specifically NOT doing that. Stop bringing ravens to fleets.

Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.07 18:24:00 - [71] Originally by: Amberlamps Originally by: De'Veldrin Alarm clock ops. This is (one of) the reason(s) I won't be setlling in null sec. There are exactly three groups of people in the world that get to wake me up in the middle of the night. The first one I gave birth to, the second one I married, and the third pays me by the hour to carry a pager. Anyone else that expects me to get up while I'm sleeping had better have a reason that involves a natural disaster of such epic proportions that the term 'biblical' could be applied. You won my "Amberlamp's best read award!" Your post was one of the best I have read in many months and is how a response should be constructed. The general content was fantastic however this particular quote won it for you. Quote: Anyone else that expects me to get up while I'm sleeping had better have a reason that involves a natural disaster of such epic proportions that the term 'biblical' could be applied. The sheer hilarity involved in such arrangement of words created a post that was readable more than once. I congratulate you.... ...Congratulations You know, I've been in 0.0 for most of the last 3 years. I've never been in an alliance with "mandatory alarm clock ops". I value my sleep too. But eh, what does it matter. People will find an excuse of they want one. A moment's investigation would show that there are plenty of corps and even whole alliances who live in 0.0 and dont have a single sov system.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles	Posted - 2010.04.07 18:25:00 - [72] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Of course, carebears being what they are, it is in their nature to avoid any real risk or effort in the quest for massive rewards. I don't think that behaviour is exclusive to carebears. Most players, regardless of habitat, seek to minimise their risks. From the point of view of earning isk, the risk-reward balance in EVE is skewed heavily in favour of high-sec content, to the extent that many people run extensive high sec operations just to subsidise their goals in lowsec or 0.0 - how do you classify these players? How many people are there who have no 'carebear side' whatsoever? CCP could change the balance of things the other way, of course, but not without giving up a large number of their subscribers. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression
lookatzebirdie	Posted - 2010.04.07 18:47:00 - [73] very small
Apoctasy The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel	Posted - 2010.04.07 19:47:00 - [74] no-sec and high-sec players are united by the fact that they aren't lowsec players. __________________________________________
Alice Celadon	Posted - 2010.04.07 21:13:00 - [75] LOL. There are good nullsec alliances. There are horrible nullsec alliances. The good ones have such a strong pvp base, that they don't care who x-es up at any given time. They attract ravenous pvp monkeys who use the intel channel as a de facto fleet coms, and descend like terrible locusts on small roaming gangs while you're carebearing. But -- and here's the important part -- they don't need you, and they're not aggressively recruiting. You have to find them and be of some worth to get in. Sometimes this means hanging out in a crappier alliance for a few weeks and learning the ropes/what you like doing in 00. Seriously though for hisec players looking for good 00 alliances -- just don't settle on the first one, and actively seek out corp/alliance leadership who are not douches.
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.04.07 21:30:00 - [76] Edited by: Ghoest on 07/04/2010 21:32:02 One of the biggest draw backs to being in most 0.0 alliances as an independent type player is all the screaming about kill board stats. I know this isnt the case with every alliance but definitely with most. Now if your getting free ships of course they are going to complain if you are just losing them for no kills. But in most they get rather upset about kill board rating. If I want to fly my T3 cruiser or my Faction ships in dangerous places I dont want to hear a bunch of ** if I lose them. I really dont want hear because I didnt use an alliance approved set up when I was soloing in my own ship. In my experience most alliance players are sappy drones following a few competent leaders - and unfortunately they all have to listen the the other major contingent - insecure college boys trying to impress people in chat bragging and making up stories. Honestly I see nothing fun about any of the major alliances other than bragging rights. Wherever you went - Here you are.**
TheLordofAllandNothing Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.07 21:52:00 - [77] Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 07/04/2010 21:55:21 Originally by: Ick Ickagami 1. Alarm Clock Ops. Get up at 2am local to save(or not) some tower somewhere that, if lost, would just be regained again any friggin way. 2. RED LINE Alarm Clock Ops. That means you show up at 2am local, or the Alliance heads tell your CEO to boot you from your corp, and your CEO has NO say in the matter. Yeah this doesn't happen. Alarm clocks happen of course but getting booted for not attending one because you have rl **(zzzzz) is pretty rare and if you do your ceo is a **. Show me on the picture where the mean FC touched you. _______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =(
Cikulisuy Amarr The Maverick Navy IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.07 21:56:00 - [78] i don't think you've ever been in a 0.0 alliance, mate. or if you were, yours was ****ing awful. most alliance leaders i've dealt with are understanding and pretty chill. besides nillie and i probably deserved some of that ;p nub> you cant mine so you kill.
TheLordofAllandNothing Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.07 22:04:00 - [79] Originally by: Ghoest Edited by: Ghoest on 07/04/2010 21:32:02 One of the biggest draw backs to being in most 0.0 alliances as an independent type player is all the screaming about kill board stats. I know this isnt the case with every alliance but definitely with most. Now if your getting free ships of course they are going to complain if you are just losing them for no kills. But in most they get rather upset about kill board rating. Most of us could not care less about killboard stats, hell i havent looked my stats in god dam ages, i fly dictors and i die a LOT as i am the one who gets torched when he does a suicide run through the enemy fleet. Most null sec players just want a fight, killboard stats are for neckbeards and poopsocking basement dwellers. Originally by: Ghoest Edited by: Ghoest on 07/04/2010 21:32:02 If I want to fly my T3 cruiser or my Faction ships in dangerous places I dont want to hear a bunch of ** if I lose them. I really dont want hear because I didnt use an alliance approved set up when I was soloing in my own ship. It's called banter, man up. Originally by:** Ghoest Edited by: Ghoest on 07/04/2010 21:32:02 In my experience most alliance players are sappy drones following a few competent leaders - and unfortunately they all have to listen the the other major contingent - insecure college boys trying to impress people in chat bragging and making up stories. Most alliance players enjoy pvp and being in 0.0 is an easy way to get it. Some people enjoy leading fleets and thats how they get their fill of the bux they send to ccp every month. Others just enjoy following and being in a good fight. Others enjoy the logistics...others the industry...others the management...see where i am going here? Originally by: Ghoest Edited by: Ghoest on 07/04/2010 21:32:02 Honestly I see nothing fun about any of the major alliances other than bragging rights. You are a troll, accept it. Lots of people are in 0.0 alliances and they are genuinely fun for people, otherwise they wouldn't be there would they now. It is a game at the end of the day. _______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =(
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2010.04.07 23:34:00 - [80] I concur.

Ghoest	Posted - 2010.04.08 00:09:00 - [81] Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing You are a troll, accept it. Lots of people are in 0.0 alliances and they are genuinely fun for people, otherwise they wouldn't be there would they now. It is a game at the end of the day. Actually you just coincided my point. I never said a lot of people dont enjoy 0.0 I said independent minded people dont enjoy the restrictions that most alliances impose and the structured play style. You didnt actually refute any of my points. You just said they dont matter to you. And he one point you disagreed with you were wrong. While you may not personally care about kill boaord stats - most corps do care, you comfused your opinion with reality on that one. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.04.08 00:36:00 - [82] The difference between nullsec and highsec players is: Their location. Blog and Podcast - Twitter: DeclareWar
yourdoingitwrong	Posted - 2010.04.08 02:02:00 - [83] There are good pvprs in empire and carebears in 0.0 but in general I find I can seperate most players into 2 catagories. Those who accept risk as a way of game play. (aka in 0.0 when i blind jump a gate anything can happen) Those who are risk adverse (they jump a gate and expect to be completely safe and have nothing happen) I shudder whenever i am forced to go into empire and am glad that I can play the game so far away in deep 0.0 and Im sure there are empire player who feel the exact opposite way. But hey thats eve. I have never seen a game in which these 2 groups can co exist so well in 1 gaming universe.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.04.08 03:03:00 - [84] Originally by: Ghoest I said independent minded people dont enjoy the restrictions that most alliances impose and the structured play style. The difference between the independent minded person living in 0.0 compared to the one living in high-sec, is that the former knows that he can trade some of his time in return for potentially very interesting and profitable game play while at any time having the choice to say f**k this I'm leaving. And the latter is stuck in empire/low-sec because he is bound by irrational fears of bondage and an inability to assert his independence in a group.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Amarr Dissonance Corp Primary.	Posted - 2010.04.08 03:18:00 - [85] k whatever highsec dude have fun grinding away for isk.
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.04.08 03:20:00 - [86] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Amberlamps Originally by: De'Veldrin Alarm clock ops. This is (one of) the reason(s) I won't be setlling in null sec. There are exactly three groups of people in the world that get to wake me up in the middle of the night. The first one I gave birth to, the second one I married, and the third pays me by the hour to carry a pager. Anyone else that expects me to get up while I'm sleeping had better have a reason that involves a natural disaster of such epic proportions that the term 'biblical' could be applied. You won my "Amberlamp's best read award!" Your post was one of the best I have read in many months and is how a response should be constructed. The general content was fantastic however this particular quote won it for you. Quote: Anyone else that expects me to get up while I'm sleeping had better have a reason that involves a natural disaster of such epic proportions that the term 'biblical' could be applied. The sheer hilarity involved in such arrangement of words created a post that was readable more than once. I congratulate you.... ...Congratulations You know, I've been in 0.0 for most of the last 3 years. I've never been in an alliance with "mandatory alarm clock ops". I value my sleep too. But eh, what does it matter. People will find an excuse of they want one. A moment's investigation would show that there are plenty of corps and even whole alliances who live in 0.0 and dont have a single sov system. Your lucky. Most alliances sneak in and set your alarm clock for you thus preventing you from sleeping as you'd like to. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Triple Entendre Emergence Inc.	Posted - 2010.04.08 03:45:00 - [87] Originally by: Gorefacer Your lucky. Most alliances sneak in and set your alarm clock for you thus preventing you from sleeping as you'd like to. Good sir, may I interest you in a beartrap for the area surrounding your alarm clock?
Smabs	Posted - 2010.04.08 04:06:00 - [88] Why does everyone think you need to be in an alliance to head out to 0.0? As far as I've noticed the regional gates aren't locked just because I'm on my own or in a 3 man gang. The game isn't going to refuse to let you in just because you don't have an FC or a 200 man fleet. As far as ratting and pve goes the vast majority of nullsec systems are completely empty. As long as you take some care, check the map and maybe use a scout alt you can go out and rat/do plexes til you die of boredom. And it's perfectly viable for a smaller corp to roam out into nullsec if they want to. Sure, you'll probably be outnumbered once the alliance blobs become organised, but on the other hand they're not usually terribly good at pvp anyway.
Tobias Xiaosen Gallente TX Holdings Company	Posted - 2010.04.08 04:07:00 - [89] I suppose this means if I'm to live in 0.0, I have to be in an alliance, do alarm clock ops and worry about killboard stats. Apparently I'm doing it wrong ~ Originally by: Cthulhu ftghan Keyboards are destructible. Much more so when used as a projectile.
Stephar The High Priest	Posted - 2010.04.08 04:20:00 - [90] I spend 35-50 hours/week with my corp mates. Sometimes we have time to ourselves, other times we have to work together to achieve common goals. We sometimes run alarm clock ops and regularly form up in roaming gangs. At the end of the month, the CEO reviews our stats to see if we are pulling our weight. Otherwise, when I'm not at work, I enjoy movies, hanging with friends, and long strolls along the beach. I also play video games like EVE where I fly around as a freelance pilot in high security running missions for the Amarrian Empire.

Rhedea Gorthaur Legion	Posted - 2010.04.08 04:50:00 - [91] I guess my $.02 most of my gaming was spent in low sec, back then it was safer than hi-sec low population do what I want ratting the roids, then I tried null-sec first was curse alliance that was at the tail end and quickly went back to low-sec. And again it was with Red Alliance at the end of their first stint and I lost stuff in stations as we retreated to empire, still no luck in null-sec. I must say that I had more fun in Null-sec than in any part of eve. I've always been a poor player (isk) just getting by earning just enough for a skill book, that next mod, blaster-rax. I join up with BoB as a pos fueler/unloader trying to rat my self into a battleship for the first time only to lose it to Red alliance anyway was told to leave one day due to the fact I forgot to service a pos during one of those hot summer days working outside, I had one week to get out of delve. For the first time I felt grief playing a game, it was awful. The day I left delve I lost my t2 modded BS to an gate camp, my fault for missing that lookout at the gate. I left the game. Now year ago I came back and have been in high sec for the first time, I don't do missions, I sell plex for quick isk and mine and build with an second account, I sell missiles, some ships and mining barges. I make good coin but not much playing. All I can say is Hi-sec is good for part time players, full time players go null-sec, but my first love is always low-sec.
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.04.08 04:53:00 - [92] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Originally by: Ghoest I said independent minded people dont enjoy the restrictions that most alliances impose and the structured play style. The difference between the independent minded person living in 0.0 compared to the one living in high-sec, is that the former knows that he can trade some of his time in return for potentially very interesting and profitable game play while at any time having the choice to say fk this I'm leaving. And the latter is stuck in empire/low-sec because he is bound by irrational fears of bondage and an inability to assert his independence in a group. Ever notice how insecure people equivocate others choices to "bondage" or various other unpleasant ways to lack choicesas opposed to just accepting that they might be doing what they enjoy? Im case you didnt notice - ya youre insecure. Wherever you went - Here you are.**
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.08 06:42:00 - [93] Originally by: Ghoest Ever notice how insecure people equivocate others choices to "bondage" or various other unpleasant ways to lack choicesas opposed to just accepting that they might be doing what they enjoy? Originally by: Ghoest I said independent minded people dont enjoy the restrictions that most alliances impose and the structured play style. Originally by: Ghoest In my experience most alliance players are sappy drones following a few competent leaders Originally by: Ghoest Ive been in a quite a few 0.0 Alliances and most of them want you to be a drone because thats what makes a 0.0 alliance strong. Yes they like leaders too, but they dont have room for independent types for obvious reasons.
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.04.08 13:30:00 - [94] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Ghoest various quotes Your point? Being a "drone" is the extreme opposite of being independent by definition. Being in "bondage" is not at all the definition of living in safety. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Syn Callibri Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.04.08 16:25:00 - [95] My .02 cents... Why is it that pepople that have been playing Eve for a while seem to forget where they came from? Being new to EVE I spent MOST if not all of my time in hi-sec areas...why? Its not because I'm fail, or a carebear its because Im learning..so don't forget "we" are out there too. "I have as much authority as the Empress, I just don't have as many people who believe it."
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.04.10 23:32:00 - [96] Originally by: Ghoest Being in "bondage" is not at all the definition of living in safety. I thought being in bondage was foreplay? --Vel Originally by: Jiseinoku Mining is the path to enlightement.
db T M. Corp Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2010.04.11 00:33:00 - [97] Originally by: CCP Navigator NPC corporations are pretty chill though. The chat channels are usually a mix of raw players and seasoned veterans who do their very best to help new players understand markets, fittings and politics within EVE until they are confident enough to find their own home. Oh this all the way, I actually have an alt just so I can be in The Scope corp chat. Best ever. But yeah, for actually playing the game, null sec largish corporations are awesome. But really, it's all about the posting
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2010.04.11 02:17:00 - [98] Originally by: Culmen http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll195/nakieon/eveonlinetruths.jpg I love it OT: I would be in 0.0 probably every day if it weren't for bubbles. If not wanting to deal with inescapable insta-death everytime I jump through a gate makes me a carebear then so be it edit: and just to remind you, there is still no divider between posts and sigs.
Ephemeron Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates	Posted - 2010.04.11 02:57:00 - [99] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Culmen http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll195/nakieon/eveonlinetruths.jpg I love it OT: I would be in 0.0 probably every day if it weren't for bubbles. If not wanting to deal with inescapable insta-death everytime I jump through a gate makes me a carebear then so be it Bubbles aren't 100% death traps. I fought my way thru many and lived. Of course, died a lot too, but there's a fighting chance.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.11 08:42:00 - [100] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Culmen http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll195/nakieon/eveonlinetruths.jpg I love it OT: I would be in 0.0 probably every day if it weren't for bubbles. If not wanting to deal with inescapable insta-death everytime I jump through a gate makes me a carebear then so be it Once you learn the techniques to deal with them, bubbles aren't so much of a threat. Nor are they quite as common as you seem to believe.



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