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VanNostrum
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Posted - 2010.04.21 10:27:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 21/04/2010 10:09:42
Originally by: VanNostrum
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: VanNostrum
Well, hello
where are the pirate cruisers in this equation!? OFC there are things HACs can do but BCs can't, but pirate ships can do those better!
CCP designed the lineup to be: T1<navy faction<T2<pirate faction.
and where does that leave HACs?
Inferior to pirate faction cruisers by design? Much like HACs obsolete navy cruisers.
That's what I've bee saying! DUH!
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.21 11:02:00 -
[62]
No, that's what I've been saying!
Anyway, what about it? It's like saying where do T2 ships leave T1.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.04.21 11:15:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: evil0
The "HAC", better known as "Holy Armed Cow" is probably the most unbalanced ship in the entire game. All HACs are generally underpowered for several reasons.
a. HACs are outperformed by BCs whivh cost LESS THAN THEY DO!
b. HACs are waaaaayyyy too expensive to be of value.
c. They lack the DPS to take on other HACs with a guaranteed win.
Solution:
1) Open market tab
2) Look up the skill book 'Heavy Assault Ships'
3) Don't buy it
Mr Epeen 
lol the simplest solutions are often the best 
Oh and yes, lol at that other post regarding the Deimos comment  You've obviously died slower than everyone else who flew one.
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Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2010.04.21 11:35:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Wacktopia on 21/04/2010 11:37:47
It's an easy mistake to make when looking at a lot of T2 hulls that they are in some way 'wrong' or 'underpowered' in a given area. The simple fact is that unlike T2 mods, which tend to generally be 'better' than the T1 version, T2 ship hulls are designed to perform a more specific role.
So, frigs -> Inties / Sbombers, cruisers -> recon / hac, bcs -> command ships. Each T2 version performs a specific role. It is stronger in some areas and weaker in others. See my points below when comparing a HAC to a BC and consider this point.
Quote:
"a. HACs are outperformed by BCs whivh cost LESS THAN THEY DO!"
By 'out performed' I imagine you mean 'when I look at EFT the dps and tank of a BC is better and so it must be a better ship'. HAC's have three distinct advantages over a BC: 1) They are faster and therefore the 'fly off' option is available if required 2) They have a high scan res and therefore can lock small targets quickly. If you have ever been swarmed by a frig gang when you are in BCs you will appreciate this advantage 3) They have a lower signature, which means lower hits from missiles and guns especially if you're moving and longer lock times.
Quote:
b. HACs are waaaaayyyy too expensive to be of value.
Cost is do do with supply and demand and not how many 'win points' it has.
Quote:
c. They lack the DPS to take on other HACs with a guaranteed win.
I almost didn't respond to this but I will: If there was any 'guaranteed win' ship then wouldn't everyone just fly that one?
Edit: Spelling fail.
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.04.21 12:22:00 -
[65]
HACs are not underperfoming - You're expecting mroe of them than they deserve.
When they were introduced CCP had them valued at around 16-18m isk... Player market makes them much more expensive but dont blaim the HACs
Pinky
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I'm a nice guy!!
But plz hook me up with some pew pew... |
Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.04.21 12:33:00 -
[66]
yeah i remeber ccp saying they would be 2-3x more than a t1 hull, everyone laughed and sed that they wouldnt be that generally used with such low hp etc for the money.
i pose the reason why only the better pvpers use them, and then only in specific ways, is becaus ethey do indeed cost to much, too much to just throw at the feet of a target (deimost)
I would expect there use to be more widespread with manymore setups and uses emerging if they did in fact cost the same as a BC.
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Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2010.04.21 12:38:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Dr Fighter
I would expect there use to be more widespread with manymore setups and uses emerging if they did in fact cost the same as a BC.
This. I'd stick a shield tank on a T1 Gallente ship for lols but I would think a lot more carefully if it was an expensive T2 hull, for example.
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Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.21 13:06:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Wacktopia
This. I'd stick a shield tank on a T1 Gallente ship for lols but I would think a lot more carefully if it was an expensive T2 hull, for example.
Shield Lachesis/Arazu ftw!
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“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.21 13:32:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Wacktopia
This. I'd stick a shield tank on a T1 Gallente ship for lols
Nothing lolworthy about fitting your ship correctly! 
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Max Tux
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Posted - 2010.04.21 14:00:00 -
[70]
lol look at caldari, perfect example of Hac's vs BC
Cerb Vs Drake (rough numbers)
speed(overload):2k vs 1.2k
Tank: 20kEHP vs 90KEHP
DPS: 400 vs 600
Range: up to 200km vs up to 70km (Yes i perfer HML drakes)
Drake is designed to be ontop of a target holding it tackled, while doing DPS, but can't engage support that warps in at range as well ( ESP in the case of HAMS)
Cerb is designed to be much more of a gang ship, it can warp in at 50km to a target which is tackled, apply a decent amount of DPS for a cruiser at that range, and if any support flys in , ie Recons / Logi's it has the ability to engage them, almost anywhere on grid!
i've killed many a falcon with my cerb fit, just because of the "LOL-cerb" effect.
even with the 200km falcons was still easy to get kills, overload ECCM, launchers, and MWD and burn towards the falcon, because you are travelling towards the target your 480(overloaded) DPS is actually greater, as you are closer on each missile launch.
It even used to work (not tried it recently) if you were lucky with gang member placement you could launch 2 volleys, warp closer to the target using a gang member and continue to fire, as long as you stay on grid the original missiles will still hit as well, if you can get the timing right, then the original volley will hit at the same time as the third volley you fire, so you get much better volley.
As for the Rook VS Cerb
Rook has the added advantage of ECM but has a limited engagement range of about 120km, and with ECM having a optimal of 58+53 (one projector rig) you have to really be withing 60km of the target for maximum effect.
The rook does about the same damage, but because some of that comes from drones, it has a limited range. its align time is also rubbish. It is also much more likly to be killed.
i mean what FC would primary a cerb above a rook if they are both out at 60km + :P
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Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2010.04.21 15:52:00 -
[71]
If by 'underpowered' you mean 'lacking in powergrid', yes the OP is correct, at least with regards to the Eagle and the Deimos. Boost each by 10% or so and they'd be much better off.
Otherwise, HACs (and T2 ships in general) are fine for their intended roles, it's just the quirks of the limited supply, player-driven economy keeping their prices so high.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
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