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Klavish Darivon
   |
Posted - 2004.12.02 07:14:00 -
[1]
It is very easy to complete the Level four agent missions. I watched a a fellow player kept the Level 4 Pirates at 70km, flying away from them, aligned for warp, and fireing a full spectrum of Torpedoes at the rats, starting with the smallest, and working his way to the largest of them, the entire time keeping them at range. Not too mention, know your rats, and armour or shield tank appropriately.
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Klavish Darivon
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Posted - 2004.12.02 07:14:00 -
[2]
It is very easy to complete the Level four agent missions. I watched a a fellow player kept the Level 4 Pirates at 70km, flying away from them, aligned for warp, and fireing a full spectrum of Torpedoes at the rats, starting with the smallest, and working his way to the largest of them, the entire time keeping them at range. Not too mention, know your rats, and armour or shield tank appropriately.
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MajorGeneral Ponsonby
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Posted - 2004.12.02 08:45:00 -
[3]
Now there's a shocker...
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MajorGeneral Ponsonby
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Posted - 2004.12.02 08:45:00 -
[4]
Now there's a shocker...
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Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2004.12.02 10:03:00 -
[5]
tis exactly wot i do in all lvl4 missions, hence why i fit a MWD on my raven 
Forums: Sharks - MC |
Eyeshadow
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 10:03:00 -
[6]
tis exactly wot i do in all lvl4 missions, hence why i fit a MWD on my raven
Forums: Sharks - MC |
Jowen Datloran
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 10:43:00 -
[7]
Seems like the a huge majority are running these missions in a Raven. And no, in one of those they aren't difficult.
----------------
What's a rumor on page one is a fact on page two |
Jowen Datloran
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 10:43:00 -
[8]
Seems like the a huge majority are running these missions in a Raven. And no, in one of those they aren't difficult.
----------------
What's a rumor on page one is a fact on page two |
Faster ThanJesus
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 10:52:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Seems like the a huge majority are running these missions in a Raven. And no, in one of those they aren't difficult.
Heya Jowen
The sansha/amarr navy missions are a bit tougher in a raven, but yeah, the others are surprisingly easy. As long as you stay awake, you should be okay.
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Faster ThanJesus
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Posted - 2004.12.02 10:52:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Seems like the a huge majority are running these missions in a Raven. And no, in one of those they aren't difficult.
Heya Jowen
The sansha/amarr navy missions are a bit tougher in a raven, but yeah, the others are surprisingly easy. As long as you stay awake, you should be okay.
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2004.12.02 10:53:00 -
[11]
Which is exactly why we will be using the deadspaces instead of the old system :).
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2004.12.02 10:53:00 -
[12]
Which is exactly why we will be using the deadspaces instead of the old system :).
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B Slap
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Posted - 2004.12.02 11:01:00 -
[13]
Im new I guess but why will deadspace effect this common sense approach to fighting ?
In dead space you can still align and warp away right ??
You can still use fast gang member to get distance from spawn and warp into him right ie landing you a long way from pirates ?
You can still use a Raven ??
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B Slap
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Posted - 2004.12.02 11:01:00 -
[14]
Im new I guess but why will deadspace effect this common sense approach to fighting ?
In dead space you can still align and warp away right ??
You can still use fast gang member to get distance from spawn and warp into him right ie landing you a long way from pirates ?
You can still use a Raven ??
|
Jim Steele
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Posted - 2004.12.02 11:15:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Jim Steele on 02/12/2004 11:18:28
Originally by: Zrakor
Which is exactly why we will be using the deadspaces instead of the old system :).
Sounds good to me  i dont use a mwd on the raven as it gimps your ship but the new changes to mwd's coupled with the AB changes make for good reading. 
Death to the Galante |
Jim Steele
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 11:15:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jim Steele on 02/12/2004 11:18:28
Originally by: Zrakor
Which is exactly why we will be using the deadspaces instead of the old system :).
Sounds good to me i dont use a mwd on the raven as it gimps your ship but the new changes to mwd's coupled with the AB changes make for good reading.
Death to the Galante |
Zrakor
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 11:20:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Zrakor on 02/12/2004 11:23:55
Originally by: B Slap
Im new I guess but why will deadspace effect this common sense approach to fighting ?
In dead space you can still align and warp away right ??
You can still use fast gang member to get distance from spawn and warp into him right ie landing you a long way from pirates ?
You can still use a Raven ??
The deadspaces are intended to solve the problem with no-risk kiting. MWD's do not work in deadspace, as well as a few other things which prevent blatant kiting. I don't doubt for a second that players won't find some devious way to get around this, but it will atleast make it harder.
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Zrakor
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 11:20:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Zrakor on 02/12/2004 11:23:55
Originally by: B Slap
Im new I guess but why will deadspace effect this common sense approach to fighting ?
In dead space you can still align and warp away right ??
You can still use fast gang member to get distance from spawn and warp into him right ie landing you a long way from pirates ?
You can still use a Raven ??
The deadspaces are intended to solve the problem with no-risk kiting. MWD's do not work in deadspace, as well as a few other things which prevent blatant kiting. I don't doubt for a second that players won't find some devious way to get around this, but it will atleast make it harder.
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Space Debris
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Posted - 2004.12.02 11:25:00 -
[19]
But can you still go into dead space with one ship and move away to range and gang warp to that ranged point ?
I know this wont stop the npc's catching up to you as you have no mwd and they seem to have 2 but at least it stops you landing on top of 15 nme BS ??
The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face
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Space Debris
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Posted - 2004.12.02 11:25:00 -
[20]
But can you still go into dead space with one ship and move away to range and gang warp to that ranged point ?
I know this wont stop the npc's catching up to you as you have no mwd and they seem to have 2 but at least it stops you landing on top of 15 nme BS ??
The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face
|
Jim Steele
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Posted - 2004.12.02 11:43:00 -
[21]
it would be nice to not get landed in the middle of things at 15 k but i suppose you could always send a scout through first in a fast frig or 'ceptor to make a warp position this will give you time to destroy them befor you start getting pounded to hell.
Death to the Galante |
Jim Steele
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 11:43:00 -
[22]
it would be nice to not get landed in the middle of things at 15 k but i suppose you could always send a scout through first in a fast frig or 'ceptor to make a warp position this will give you time to destroy them befor you start getting pounded to hell.
Death to the Galante |
freeshot
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 12:02:00 -
[23]
why is it that the raven and the scorp seem to be the only bs that can go solo on these lvl 4 missions ?
if ain't got missiles your buggered, and i mean lots of them
There needs to be some balance armor tanking just doesn't work AT ALL, as we already know the frigs are all over you like a rash and unless you put 125mm rails on  or warp stabalizers your in there for the full journey. I have the answer to this problem mind Train caldari the obviously better race of the 4 
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freeshot
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 12:02:00 -
[24]
why is it that the raven and the scorp seem to be the only bs that can go solo on these lvl 4 missions ?
if ain't got missiles your buggered, and i mean lots of them
There needs to be some balance armor tanking just doesn't work AT ALL, as we already know the frigs are all over you like a rash and unless you put 125mm rails on or warp stabalizers your in there for the full journey. I have the answer to this problem mind Train caldari the obviously better race of the 4
|
Darkwolf
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Posted - 2004.12.02 12:03:00 -
[25]
God, what a laugh.
"Hey, it's easy to kill these NPCs, if you shoot at the smallest guys first, and fly away really fast so they never get close to you!"
You think?
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Darkwolf
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 12:03:00 -
[26]
God, what a laugh.
"Hey, it's easy to kill these NPCs, if you shoot at the smallest guys first, and fly away really fast so they never get close to you!"
You think?
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freeshot
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 12:35:00 -
[27]
And you fly in which ship did you say 
i know that but try shooting at a frigs with a 250mm rail let alone a 425mm 
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freeshot
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 12:35:00 -
[28]
And you fly in which ship did you say
i know that but try shooting at a frigs with a 250mm rail let alone a 425mm
|
Teutobod
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 12:46:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Teutobod on 02/12/2004 12:55:49
Edited by: Teutobod on 02/12/2004 12:51:30
Zrakor:
How about reverse kiting
I fail to see how deadspace will solve this unless you always land right inside the spawn and are insta-warp-jammed-wtf-bbqfishsticked, as Oveour would have put it.
As it is now you warp in at 60 KM and lock down the small annoying jammers and cruise/torp them to death. Make a BM and fly out, then you warp back to that BM and torp/cruise the rest to death. Depending on the spawn size it will take from 1 to several warp in/out.
Now the deadspace might solve this if you can never warp into a BM in the deadspace but only to the beacon and then only xx range.
This however, IMO, will lead to lots of moaning. Kiting as it exists today is not all that profitibale to really warrant a "risk-free" label. There are risk and when you look at the cash you gain it's a pretty low IMO compared to what I could get from just killing NPC's in 0.0.
Personally I am done with lvl IV tough, as a team the profit is low, alone the profit is low and the risk seems ot be induced by "omg lets just spawn a gazillion frigs and cruisers and then a few higb damage BS" There is no challenge because the AI is stupid and their strenght is stupid, only the fact they can be spawned in huge numbers make them any significant threat and even that approach seems like admitting your entire system of PvE is a failure.
Instead of having high numbers it might be more prudent to actually make Smaller spawns but with foes that can really take some damage and dish it out too. Then you'll end up with a system where team work is needed to complete it but also rewarding.
It would be sort of like how most sword and shield MMO works, to an extent, you need a tank that keep aggro, this is done by the AI itself, it keeps focusing on 1 target, the initinal. Then you need healers to heal the tank because he simply cannot sustain it himself. Then you need the tank to dish out damage too most likely, the healers can probably do this in EVE too since ships can fire guns and transfer cap/shield at the same time unlike a Priest for instance that can only heal or damage but not both.
Now that would mean ppl need to team. And I like the deadspace idea, make it a complex. Basically instead of stupid numnbers to owerwhealm make the enemies tough as nails but fewer in numbers and much higher reward. Then each level has progressilvy tougher enemoies. So you might get to "the end boss" and fail because you did not have the numbers to kill him.
I know EVE is not a "sword and shield MMO" but the idea that those have is rather good. It gives an incentive to team up to overcome a difficualt task and makes it impossible to solo, depending on how hard it is. Right now it's just "let's spawn a gazillion ships and bbq the player/players". It's also highly annoying to fight a huge spawn in agroup because there are so many damn targets and it ups the lag. The other method makes group work easier to acomplish.
The current system is flawed at the core IMO.
|
Teutobod
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 12:46:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Teutobod on 02/12/2004 12:55:49
Edited by: Teutobod on 02/12/2004 12:51:30
Zrakor:
How about reverse kiting
I fail to see how deadspace will solve this unless you always land right inside the spawn and are insta-warp-jammed-wtf-bbqfishsticked, as Oveour would have put it.
As it is now you warp in at 60 KM and lock down the small annoying jammers and cruise/torp them to death. Make a BM and fly out, then you warp back to that BM and torp/cruise the rest to death. Depending on the spawn size it will take from 1 to several warp in/out.
Now the deadspace might solve this if you can never warp into a BM in the deadspace but only to the beacon and then only xx range.
This however, IMO, will lead to lots of moaning. Kiting as it exists today is not all that profitibale to really warrant a "risk-free" label. There are risk and when you look at the cash you gain it's a pretty low IMO compared to what I could get from just killing NPC's in 0.0.
Personally I am done with lvl IV tough, as a team the profit is low, alone the profit is low and the risk seems ot be induced by "omg lets just spawn a gazillion frigs and cruisers and then a few higb damage BS" There is no challenge because the AI is stupid and their strenght is stupid, only the fact they can be spawned in huge numbers make them any significant threat and even that approach seems like admitting your entire system of PvE is a failure.
Instead of having high numbers it might be more prudent to actually make Smaller spawns but with foes that can really take some damage and dish it out too. Then you'll end up with a system where team work is needed to complete it but also rewarding.
It would be sort of like how most sword and shield MMO works, to an extent, you need a tank that keep aggro, this is done by the AI itself, it keeps focusing on 1 target, the initinal. Then you need healers to heal the tank because he simply cannot sustain it himself. Then you need the tank to dish out damage too most likely, the healers can probably do this in EVE too since ships can fire guns and transfer cap/shield at the same time unlike a Priest for instance that can only heal or damage but not both.
Now that would mean ppl need to team. And I like the deadspace idea, make it a complex. Basically instead of stupid numnbers to owerwhealm make the enemies tough as nails but fewer in numbers and much higher reward. Then each level has progressilvy tougher enemoies. So you might get to "the end boss" and fail because you did not have the numbers to kill him.
I know EVE is not a "sword and shield MMO" but the idea that those have is rather good. It gives an incentive to team up to overcome a difficualt task and makes it impossible to solo, depending on how hard it is. Right now it's just "let's spawn a gazillion ships and bbq the player/players". It's also highly annoying to fight a huge spawn in agroup because there are so many damn targets and it ups the lag. The other method makes group work easier to acomplish.
The current system is flawed at the core IMO.
|
Sternburg Export
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 12:55:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Zrakor
Which is exactly why we will be using the deadspaces instead of the old system :).
Thx.. u ruined eve for me....
Time to quit eve....
25Ç more in my pocket every 50days...
U nerfed MWD¦s in deadspace
U ****** every player with the aggrosystem of NPC¦s
U ****** warp in points in deadspace...
The first one will be screwed ever...
But nice to see that u don¦t care what ur customers are thinking!
Yes we wanted harder missions... Yes they are harder now... And some missions are hard even from range...
ooooopsss i missed somethning...
u¦ve made that NPC make over 500 DMG with one heavy missile...
NPC are Overpowered in deadspace... And i¦m not the only one who think so...
U take every Fun from the players...
Exodus was / is a really nice expansion... thats sure...
But with ur changes u r on the Best way to make Exodus Crap...
MfG
stern
____________________________
[ 2005.03.31 20:53:50 ] (mining) Your Basic Miner perfectly strikes Veldspar Roid, wrecking for 20 Ore units.
|
Sternburg Export
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 12:55:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Zrakor
Which is exactly why we will be using the deadspaces instead of the old system :).
Thx.. u ruined eve for me....
Time to quit eve....
25Ç more in my pocket every 50days...
U nerfed MWD¦s in deadspace
U ****** every player with the aggrosystem of NPC¦s
U ****** warp in points in deadspace...
The first one will be screwed ever...
But nice to see that u don¦t care what ur customers are thinking!
Yes we wanted harder missions... Yes they are harder now... And some missions are hard even from range...
ooooopsss i missed somethning...
u¦ve made that NPC make over 500 DMG with one heavy missile...
NPC are Overpowered in deadspace... And i¦m not the only one who think so...
U take every Fun from the players...
Exodus was / is a really nice expansion... thats sure...
But with ur changes u r on the Best way to make Exodus Crap...
MfG
stern
____________________________
[ 2005.03.31 20:53:50 ] (mining) Your Basic Miner perfectly strikes Veldspar Roid, wrecking for 20 Ore units.
|
Bianca Reeves
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 13:36:00 -
[33]
Thats it.
Im outta here.
With Shiva everything got worse except for the graphics.
Account canceled.
See you in a better game.
----
RENT A SIG
Yes, its true, this signature is for rent! Contact me ingame for further details.
READ - Reeves Enterprises, Advertisement Division |
Bianca Reeves
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 13:36:00 -
[34]
Thats it.
Im outta here.
With Shiva everything got worse except for the graphics.
Account canceled.
See you in a better game.
----
RENT A SIG
Yes, its true, this signature is for rent! Contact me ingame for further details.
READ - Reeves Enterprises, Advertisement Division |
MrRookie
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 13:38:00 -
[35]
Edited by: MrRookie on 02/12/2004 13:43:01
Originally by: Sternburg Export
Originally by: Zrakor
Which is exactly why we will be using the deadspaces instead of the old system :).
Thx.. u ruined eve for me....
Time to quit eve....
25Ç more in my pocket every 50days...
U nerfed MWD¦s in deadspace
U ****** every player with the aggrosystem of NPC¦s
U ****** warp in points in deadspace...
The first one will be screwed ever...
But nice to see that u don¦t care what ur customers are thinking!
Yes we wanted harder missions... Yes they are harder now... And some missions are hard even from range...
ooooopsss i missed somethning...
u¦ve made that NPC make over 500 DMG with one heavy missile...
NPC are Overpowered in deadspace... And i¦m not the only one who think so...
U take every Fun from the players...
Exodus was / is a really nice expansion... thats sure...
But with ur changes u r on the Best way to make Exodus Crap...
MfG
stern
OMG...
I have officaly nominated you as the top whiner of the year 2004. Congrats
Edit:
Stuff?
_____________________________________________
\o/
I got a siggy... 
WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877 |
MrRookie
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 13:38:00 -
[36]
Edited by: MrRookie on 02/12/2004 13:43:01
Originally by: Sternburg Export
Originally by: Zrakor
Which is exactly why we will be using the deadspaces instead of the old system :).
Thx.. u ruined eve for me....
Time to quit eve....
25Ç more in my pocket every 50days...
U nerfed MWD¦s in deadspace
U ****** every player with the aggrosystem of NPC¦s
U ****** warp in points in deadspace...
The first one will be screwed ever...
But nice to see that u don¦t care what ur customers are thinking!
Yes we wanted harder missions... Yes they are harder now... And some missions are hard even from range...
ooooopsss i missed somethning...
u¦ve made that NPC make over 500 DMG with one heavy missile...
NPC are Overpowered in deadspace... And i¦m not the only one who think so...
U take every Fun from the players...
Exodus was / is a really nice expansion... thats sure...
But with ur changes u r on the Best way to make Exodus Crap...
MfG
stern
OMG...
I have officaly nominated you as the top whiner of the year 2004. Congrats
Edit:
Stuff?
_____________________________________________
\o/
I got a siggy...
WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877 |
Sternburg Export
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 13:43:00 -
[37]
Originally by: MrRookie
Edited by: MrRookie on 02/12/2004 13:43:01
Originally by: Sternburg Export
Originally by: Zrakor
Which is exactly why we will be using the deadspaces instead of the old system :).
Thx.. u ruined eve for me....
Time to quit eve....
25Ç more in my pocket every 50days...
U nerfed MWD¦s in deadspace
U ****** every player with the aggrosystem of NPC¦s
U ****** warp in points in deadspace...
The first one will be screwed ever...
But nice to see that u don¦t care what ur customers are thinking!
Yes we wanted harder missions... Yes they are harder now... And some missions are hard even from range...
ooooopsss i missed somethning...
u¦ve made that NPC make over 500 DMG with one heavy missile...
NPC are Overpowered in deadspace... And i¦m not the only one who think so...
U take every Fun from the players...
Exodus was / is a really nice expansion... thats sure...
But with ur changes u r on the Best way to make Exodus Crap...
MfG
stern
OMG...
I have officaly nominated you as the top whiner of the year 2004. Congrats
Edit:
Stuff?
THX..
and now STFU and play with ur Barbie... dumbass
____________________________
[ 2005.03.31 20:53:50 ] (mining) Your Basic Miner perfectly strikes Veldspar Roid, wrecking for 20 Ore units.
|
Sternburg Export
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 13:43:00 -
[38]
Originally by: MrRookie
Edited by: MrRookie on 02/12/2004 13:43:01
Originally by: Sternburg Export
Originally by: Zrakor
Which is exactly why we will be using the deadspaces instead of the old system :).
Thx.. u ruined eve for me....
Time to quit eve....
25Ç more in my pocket every 50days...
U nerfed MWD¦s in deadspace
U ****** every player with the aggrosystem of NPC¦s
U ****** warp in points in deadspace...
The first one will be screwed ever...
But nice to see that u don¦t care what ur customers are thinking!
Yes we wanted harder missions... Yes they are harder now... And some missions are hard even from range...
ooooopsss i missed somethning...
u¦ve made that NPC make over 500 DMG with one heavy missile...
NPC are Overpowered in deadspace... And i¦m not the only one who think so...
U take every Fun from the players...
Exodus was / is a really nice expansion... thats sure...
But with ur changes u r on the Best way to make Exodus Crap...
MfG
stern
OMG...
I have officaly nominated you as the top whiner of the year 2004. Congrats
Edit:
Stuff?
THX..
and now STFU and play with ur Barbie... dumbass
____________________________
[ 2005.03.31 20:53:50 ] (mining) Your Basic Miner perfectly strikes Veldspar Roid, wrecking for 20 Ore units.
|
RL Malcontent
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 13:47:00 -
[39]
Not to worry all... Missiles won't be the answer in deadspace or normal space for long. They are going to be nerfed to death soon enough thanks to all crying over them. Then everyone will be happy, right?
|
RL Malcontent
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 13:47:00 -
[40]
Not to worry all... Missiles won't be the answer in deadspace or normal space for long. They are going to be nerfed to death soon enough thanks to all crying over them. Then everyone will be happy, right?
|
freeshot
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 13:49:00 -
[41]
You say he's a Whiner but still everything he says is the true...
|
freeshot
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 13:49:00 -
[42]
You say he's a Whiner but still everything he says is the true...
|
MrRookie
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 13:50:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sternburg Export
Originally by: MrRookie
Edited by: MrRookie on 02/12/2004 13:43:01
Originally by: Sternburg Export
Originally by: Zrakor
Which is exactly why we will be using the deadspaces instead of the old system :).
Thx.. u ruined eve for me....
Time to quit eve....
25Ç more in my pocket every 50days...
U nerfed MWD¦s in deadspace
U ****** every player with the aggrosystem of NPC¦s
U ****** warp in points in deadspace...
The first one will be screwed ever...
But nice to see that u don¦t care what ur customers are thinking!
Yes we wanted harder missions... Yes they are harder now... And some missions are hard even from range...
ooooopsss i missed somethning...
u¦ve made that NPC make over 500 DMG with one heavy missile...
NPC are Overpowered in deadspace... And i¦m not the only one who think so...
U take every Fun from the players...
Exodus was / is a really nice expansion... thats sure...
But with ur changes u r on the Best way to make Exodus Crap...
MfG
stern
OMG...
I have officaly nominated you as the top whiner of the year 2004. Congrats
Edit:
Stuff?
THX..
and now STFU and play with ur Barbie... dumbass
No to worry.. I will. Have them right next to my GI-Joes
_____________________________________________
\o/
I got a siggy...
WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877 |
MrRookie
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 13:50:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Sternburg Export
Originally by: MrRookie
Edited by: MrRookie on 02/12/2004 13:43:01
Originally by: Sternburg Export
Originally by: Zrakor
Which is exactly why we will be using the deadspaces instead of the old system :).
Thx.. u ruined eve for me....
Time to quit eve....
25Ç more in my pocket every 50days...
U nerfed MWD¦s in deadspace
U ****** every player with the aggrosystem of NPC¦s
U ****** warp in points in deadspace...
The first one will be screwed ever...
But nice to see that u don¦t care what ur customers are thinking!
Yes we wanted harder missions... Yes they are harder now... And some missions are hard even from range...
ooooopsss i missed somethning...
u¦ve made that NPC make over 500 DMG with one heavy missile...
NPC are Overpowered in deadspace... And i¦m not the only one who think so...
U take every Fun from the players...
Exodus was / is a really nice expansion... thats sure...
But with ur changes u r on the Best way to make Exodus Crap...
MfG
stern
OMG...
I have officaly nominated you as the top whiner of the year 2004. Congrats
Edit:
Stuff?
THX..
and now STFU and play with ur Barbie... dumbass
No to worry.. I will. Have them right next to my GI-Joes
_____________________________________________
\o/
I got a siggy...
WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877 |
Nemesis I
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Posted - 2004.12.02 14:05:00 -
[45]
Personally I think level 4 missions are lacking in excitement and reward.
On the Reward side moving them to Dead Space will only make them less attractive, as the current loot table appears to be take level 2 loot and /100 = level 4 loot.
Excitement the problem is the NPC spawns, AI is well lacking, they dont work as a team, and dont seem to make best use of their kit, for example yesterday two apocs thought it a good tactic to attack me from 4k, erm no dont think so!!
Nem |
Nemesis I
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Posted - 2004.12.02 14:05:00 -
[46]
Personally I think level 4 missions are lacking in excitement and reward.
On the Reward side moving them to Dead Space will only make them less attractive, as the current loot table appears to be take level 2 loot and /100 = level 4 loot.
Excitement the problem is the NPC spawns, AI is well lacking, they dont work as a team, and dont seem to make best use of their kit, for example yesterday two apocs thought it a good tactic to attack me from 4k, erm no dont think so!!
Nem |
hatchette
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Posted - 2004.12.02 14:09:00 -
[47]
I agree with Teutobod...
Instead of increasing the intelligence of AI (actually even putting I into AI) devs are just increasing numbers of npcs. Which imho is pretty bad...
I'm sure devs want to make AI better. But why don't they? Increased server CPU use would kill the server? Don't have enough time to implement it? Don't have competent people who can actually make a decent AI?
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hatchette
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Posted - 2004.12.02 14:09:00 -
[48]
I agree with Teutobod...
Instead of increasing the intelligence of AI (actually even putting I into AI) devs are just increasing numbers of npcs. Which imho is pretty bad...
I'm sure devs want to make AI better. But why don't they? Increased server CPU use would kill the server? Don't have enough time to implement it? Don't have competent people who can actually make a decent AI?
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.12.02 14:34:00 -
[49]
Can I have your stuff!
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Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.12.02 14:34:00 -
[50]
Can I have your stuff!
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Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Spiney Norman
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:33:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Zrakor
Edited by: Zrakor on 02/12/2004 11:23:55
Originally by: B Slap
Im new I guess but why will deadspace effect this common sense approach to fighting ?
In dead space you can still align and warp away right ??
You can still use fast gang member to get distance from spawn and warp into him right ie landing you a long way from pirates ?
You can still use a Raven ??
The deadspaces are intended to solve the problem with no-risk kiting. MWD's do not work in deadspace, as well as a few other things which prevent blatant kiting. I don't doubt for a second that players won't find some devious way to get around this, but it will atleast make it harder.
Ah but MWD's are not switched off for all are they? The NPC rats that are in deadspace seem to be able to use theirs, which further pushes deadspace missions(and thereby apparently soonÖ all kill missions) further towards the Raven only trained players
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Spiney Norman
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:33:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Zrakor
Edited by: Zrakor on 02/12/2004 11:23:55
Originally by: B Slap
Im new I guess but why will deadspace effect this common sense approach to fighting ?
In dead space you can still align and warp away right ??
You can still use fast gang member to get distance from spawn and warp into him right ie landing you a long way from pirates ?
You can still use a Raven ??
The deadspaces are intended to solve the problem with no-risk kiting. MWD's do not work in deadspace, as well as a few other things which prevent blatant kiting. I don't doubt for a second that players won't find some devious way to get around this, but it will atleast make it harder.
Ah but MWD's are not switched off for all are they? The NPC rats that are in deadspace seem to be able to use theirs, which further pushes deadspace missions(and thereby apparently soonÖ all kill missions) further towards the Raven only trained players
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Raem Civrie
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:56:00 -
[53]
Here's my grief with deadspace:
Distance.
What the HELL? 109 kilometers that I have to travel to get the bleedin' damsel in distress. That's not very funny. That's not very funny AT ALL. I don't LIKE traveling in EVE, much less traveling from point a to b in the same bleedin' grid, especially at 185m/s. Maybe our definition of "fun" differ, but that counts as a "frustration" in my book, and frustration is the destroyer of a)fun, and b)suspension of disbelief, two of the many holy grails of game design.
Urk.
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Raem Civrie
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Posted - 2004.12.02 15:56:00 -
[54]
Here's my grief with deadspace:
Distance.
What the HELL? 109 kilometers that I have to travel to get the bleedin' damsel in distress. That's not very funny. That's not very funny AT ALL. I don't LIKE traveling in EVE, much less traveling from point a to b in the same bleedin' grid, especially at 185m/s. Maybe our definition of "fun" differ, but that counts as a "frustration" in my book, and frustration is the destroyer of a)fun, and b)suspension of disbelief, two of the many holy grails of game design.
Urk.
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Ashelth
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Posted - 2004.12.02 16:12:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Zrakor
Edited by: Zrakor on 02/12/2004 11:23:55
The deadspaces are intended to solve the problem with no-risk kiting. MWD's do not work in deadspace, as well as a few other things which prevent blatant kiting. I don't doubt for a second that players won't find some devious way to get around this, but it will atleast make it harder.
There are absurds on both ends of the spectra...
Like the Zor (rescue mission) Deadspace mission which has FAR too many high damage rats for any ship to tank and too many scramblers for a group of players to take out (when the first person can't hold his tank for more than 1 min due to the volume of fire adding more people to the mission doesn't make it any more survivable).
Then on the curret missions the dribs and drabs of rats you periodically get go from totaly safe(10 cruisers and 10+ friggys/intys) to just stupid (4 dead space battleships)
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Ashelth
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Posted - 2004.12.02 16:12:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Zrakor
Edited by: Zrakor on 02/12/2004 11:23:55
The deadspaces are intended to solve the problem with no-risk kiting. MWD's do not work in deadspace, as well as a few other things which prevent blatant kiting. I don't doubt for a second that players won't find some devious way to get around this, but it will atleast make it harder.
There are absurds on both ends of the spectra...
Like the Zor (rescue mission) Deadspace mission which has FAR too many high damage rats for any ship to tank and too many scramblers for a group of players to take out (when the first person can't hold his tank for more than 1 min due to the volume of fire adding more people to the mission doesn't make it any more survivable).
Then on the curret missions the dribs and drabs of rats you periodically get go from totaly safe(10 cruisers and 10+ friggys/intys) to just stupid (4 dead space battleships)
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MajorGeneral Ponsonby
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Posted - 2004.12.02 16:42:00 -
[57]
Deadspace is no fun. Horrible loot, nothing special, scooping tons of wothless loot takes ages without mwd, even with 3 abs its annoying. Not to mention the crazy difficulty. Plus it takes like 2 hours to complete them. What was the point of doing them again?
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MajorGeneral Ponsonby
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Posted - 2004.12.02 16:42:00 -
[58]
Deadspace is no fun. Horrible loot, nothing special, scooping tons of wothless loot takes ages without mwd, even with 3 abs its annoying. Not to mention the crazy difficulty. Plus it takes like 2 hours to complete them. What was the point of doing them again?
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Oosel
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Posted - 2004.12.02 16:52:00 -
[59]
myslef in an apoc and 2 fellow corpers in ravens decided to dabble in lvl4 missions and were shocked as to the numbers of the last spawn in the unauthorised military khanid presence mission...had that mission been in dead space all 3 of us would have been spanked instead of just good old me.....even with high skills in cap and mechanics i was shredded farly quickly and forgeting about defender missile stopping you from warping which eventually was what got me......one thing that does need to be sorted is that when whoever takes on the missions warps out and docks to repair as soon as he does the npc's all dissapear leaving the rest to freely pick up the cans between each wave.....i wouldnt say lvl4 missions are easy at all in amarr laser ships but when teamed with ravens you have better odds and although i did lose the apoc i have to say it was a challenge and fun
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Oosel
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Posted - 2004.12.02 16:52:00 -
[60]
myslef in an apoc and 2 fellow corpers in ravens decided to dabble in lvl4 missions and were shocked as to the numbers of the last spawn in the unauthorised military khanid presence mission...had that mission been in dead space all 3 of us would have been spanked instead of just good old me.....even with high skills in cap and mechanics i was shredded farly quickly and forgeting about defender missile stopping you from warping which eventually was what got me......one thing that does need to be sorted is that when whoever takes on the missions warps out and docks to repair as soon as he does the npc's all dissapear leaving the rest to freely pick up the cans between each wave.....i wouldnt say lvl4 missions are easy at all in amarr laser ships but when teamed with ravens you have better odds and although i did lose the apoc i have to say it was a challenge and fun
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Teutobod
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Posted - 2004.12.02 17:42:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Oosel
myslef in an apoc and 2 fellow corpers in ravens decided to dabble in lvl4 missions and were shocked as to the numbers of the last spawn in the unauthorised military khanid presence mission...had that mission been in dead space all 3 of us would have been spanked instead of just good old me.....even with high skills in cap and mechanics i was shredded farly quickly and forgeting about defender missile stopping you from warping which eventually was what got me......one thing that does need to be sorted is that when whoever takes on the missions warps out and docks to repair as soon as he does the npc's all dissapear leaving the rest to freely pick up the cans between each wave.....i wouldnt say lvl4 missions are easy at all in amarr laser ships but when teamed with ravens you have better odds and although i did lose the apoc i have to say it was a challenge and fun
It's not really a challenge. Just spawning massive amount of hostile ships does not a challenge make. It's just a poor excuse for not beeing able to make a better system. I suggest one earlier in this post that I think is a much better way of doing it than the current "just spawn loads of ships" mentality.
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Teutobod
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Posted - 2004.12.02 17:42:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Oosel
myslef in an apoc and 2 fellow corpers in ravens decided to dabble in lvl4 missions and were shocked as to the numbers of the last spawn in the unauthorised military khanid presence mission...had that mission been in dead space all 3 of us would have been spanked instead of just good old me.....even with high skills in cap and mechanics i was shredded farly quickly and forgeting about defender missile stopping you from warping which eventually was what got me......one thing that does need to be sorted is that when whoever takes on the missions warps out and docks to repair as soon as he does the npc's all dissapear leaving the rest to freely pick up the cans between each wave.....i wouldnt say lvl4 missions are easy at all in amarr laser ships but when teamed with ravens you have better odds and although i did lose the apoc i have to say it was a challenge and fun
It's not really a challenge. Just spawning massive amount of hostile ships does not a challenge make. It's just a poor excuse for not beeing able to make a better system. I suggest one earlier in this post that I think is a much better way of doing it than the current "just spawn loads of ships" mentality.
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MatStar
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Posted - 2004.12.02 17:56:00 -
[63]
so blaster ships are totally gimped for missions then?
mite aswell not bother gettin me deimos now...
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MatStar
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Posted - 2004.12.02 17:56:00 -
[64]
so blaster ships are totally gimped for missions then?
mite aswell not bother gettin me deimos now...
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Sticky Vicky
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:56:00 -
[65]
Time to face facts, Eve is the king of pvp, scamming and griefing. If you want quality PvE then maybe WoW or EQ2 would be the better option  |
Sticky Vicky
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:56:00 -
[66]
Time to face facts, Eve is the king of pvp, scamming and griefing. If you want quality PvE then maybe WoW or EQ2 would be the better option |
MatStar
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Posted - 2004.12.02 20:01:00 -
[67]
hum...maybe ccp should hire the guy that did the AI for the soldiers in the original halflife, though then u'd get ravens hiding behind roids and chucking grenades at you and tempests using roids as cover and firing at you and ducking back behind the roid
though maybe i should just deactiveate my account and be done with it
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MatStar
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Posted - 2004.12.02 20:01:00 -
[68]
hum...maybe ccp should hire the guy that did the AI for the soldiers in the original halflife, though then u'd get ravens hiding behind roids and chucking grenades at you and tempests using roids as cover and firing at you and ducking back behind the roid
though maybe i should just deactiveate my account and be done with it
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Camar
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Posted - 2004.12.02 20:55:00 -
[69]
Quote:
The sansha/amarr navy missions are a bit tougher in a raven, but yeah, the others are surprisingly easy. As long as you stay awake, you should be okay.
Just did this one in a tempest, the amarr apoc thought it was a good idea to be at 4km distance and use webber...(and still miss most of the time)
Thanks to cruise-missiles the omega/delta class ships were destroyed easily. 1200's kept missing the cruisers below 40km though, but those who stayed at 50km+ were hit.
Just needed to warp out and back again a few times and it wasn't any problem at all. But if (when) missiles won't hit those pesky ceptors and you face 5-8 of them you'll be in deep trouble...
In a Raven it's too easy, but if you need to trust your guns it takes a LONG time to finish the spawns.
(21 sec rof on a cruise-launcher...)
Bla bla bla bla...in the end...I think I earn more lp's and isk in the long run doing missions for a good quality lvl 3 agent instead...
...and with the light all life vanished... |
Camar
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Posted - 2004.12.02 20:55:00 -
[70]
Quote:
The sansha/amarr navy missions are a bit tougher in a raven, but yeah, the others are surprisingly easy. As long as you stay awake, you should be okay.
Just did this one in a tempest, the amarr apoc thought it was a good idea to be at 4km distance and use webber...(and still miss most of the time)
Thanks to cruise-missiles the omega/delta class ships were destroyed easily. 1200's kept missing the cruisers below 40km though, but those who stayed at 50km+ were hit.
Just needed to warp out and back again a few times and it wasn't any problem at all. But if (when) missiles won't hit those pesky ceptors and you face 5-8 of them you'll be in deep trouble...
In a Raven it's too easy, but if you need to trust your guns it takes a LONG time to finish the spawns.
(21 sec rof on a cruise-launcher...)
Bla bla bla bla...in the end...I think I earn more lp's and isk in the long run doing missions for a good quality lvl 3 agent instead...
...and with the light all life vanished... |
G8torSkull
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:23:00 -
[71]
well that unauthorized military khanid spawn i did by myself solo in a armor tanked raven, np there, only had to go back to station to get more misisles as i used a total of 1200 cruise missiles to complete it. loot collected all crap and totalled about 3500m3.
the lvl 4 damsel misison was so far screwed it wasnt funny as i warped to a gang member who misison it was and landed smak in the middle of all the bastages, my raven died in less than 20 seconds, but my corp mate was 200km away. (still waiting on that petition to be answered)
as it is they seem to be messing the whole game up. either that or finaly making it where you have to actually be in a mass group now which aint really bad but just annoying for some people. but imo they seem to be catering the game and the style of play to the mega corps and huge alliances.
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G8torSkull
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:23:00 -
[72]
well that unauthorized military khanid spawn i did by myself solo in a armor tanked raven, np there, only had to go back to station to get more misisles as i used a total of 1200 cruise missiles to complete it. loot collected all crap and totalled about 3500m3.
the lvl 4 damsel misison was so far screwed it wasnt funny as i warped to a gang member who misison it was and landed smak in the middle of all the bastages, my raven died in less than 20 seconds, but my corp mate was 200km away. (still waiting on that petition to be answered)
as it is they seem to be messing the whole game up. either that or finaly making it where you have to actually be in a mass group now which aint really bad but just annoying for some people. but imo they seem to be catering the game and the style of play to the mega corps and huge alliances.
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Ronyo Dae'Loki
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:48:00 -
[73]
Zrakor, then disable NPCs using MWD in deadspace.
Because that's just dumb that they can use it and we can't.
-------------
My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants.
I <3 ( . Y . ) |
Ronyo Dae'Loki
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:48:00 -
[74]
Zrakor, then disable NPCs using MWD in deadspace.
Because that's just dumb that they can use it and we can't.
-------------
My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants.
I <3 ( . Y . ) |
The Mariachi
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Posted - 2004.12.02 22:23:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Ronyo Dae'Loki
Zrakor, then disable NPCs using MWD in deadspace.
Because that's just dumb that they can use it and we can't.
Before we all get too worked up and cancel our accounts, methinks we will be seeing some kind of deadspace modules shortly. Remember, deadspace technology is not yet available to all...
Mar
A person's signature often reveals one's character, and sometimes one's name |
The Mariachi
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Posted - 2004.12.02 22:23:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Ronyo Dae'Loki
Zrakor, then disable NPCs using MWD in deadspace.
Because that's just dumb that they can use it and we can't.
Before we all get too worked up and cancel our accounts, methinks we will be seeing some kind of deadspace modules shortly. Remember, deadspace technology is not yet available to all...
Mar
A person's signature often reveals one's character, and sometimes one's name |
PSEWAR
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Posted - 2004.12.02 22:39:00 -
[77]
Edited by: PSEWAR on 02/12/2004 22:42:35
Hmm that is one of the worst ideas I heard of. Sorry to say that.
Traveling in EVE is very slow, to nucg to slow in my opinion.
You Devs ever traveled around?
And now also the Missiones should get wasted as in the Deadspace it's not possible to use MWD's?
Don't come along with there would be new modules that will allow you to use a MWD there, as that is just a waste of programming time in my opinion. Use it to programm something like Corp Taxes which should be ingame since Beta, but they still does not work.
Don't get me wrong I like the Exodus Patch, but I see no point to make that thing even slower then it already is.
Have you ever had to fly to a cargo can 150km away with a Battleship but without MWD? It needs more then then I need for a shower! I want to play the game, not sitting stupid on my seat and wait half a hour until I arrive at the destination.
Please keep that in Mind Devs.
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PSEWAR
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Posted - 2004.12.02 22:39:00 -
[78]
Edited by: PSEWAR on 02/12/2004 22:42:35
Hmm that is one of the worst ideas I heard of. Sorry to say that.
Traveling in EVE is very slow, to nucg to slow in my opinion.
You Devs ever traveled around?
And now also the Missiones should get wasted as in the Deadspace it's not possible to use MWD's?
Don't come along with there would be new modules that will allow you to use a MWD there, as that is just a waste of programming time in my opinion. Use it to programm something like Corp Taxes which should be ingame since Beta, but they still does not work.
Don't get me wrong I like the Exodus Patch, but I see no point to make that thing even slower then it already is.
Have you ever had to fly to a cargo can 150km away with a Battleship but without MWD? It needs more then then I need for a shower! I want to play the game, not sitting stupid on my seat and wait half a hour until I arrive at the destination.
Please keep that in Mind Devs.
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Olivin
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Posted - 2004.12.02 23:02:00 -
[79]
Originally by: hatchette
Instead of increasing the intelligence of AI (actually even putting I into AI) devs are just increasing numbers of npcs. Which imho is pretty bad...
I'm sure devs want to make AI better. But why don't they? Increased server CPU use would kill the server? Don't have enough time to implement it? Don't have competent people who can actually make a decent AI?
What do you call a decent AI? No game have decent AI and won't have for very long time,
More importantly - Spawn and AI are two exclusive things, unless AI as a complex application
(Agent+Rules applied to the growing Knowledge base) implemented into a core of spawn,
basically generating "smarter" rats after each battle. In theory it will lead to the very "smart" rats which will be almost impossible to kill. Oh, nice. Such rats can even
have their own names and can be treated as IPC. 
Olivin
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Olivin
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Posted - 2004.12.02 23:02:00 -
[80]
Originally by: hatchette
Instead of increasing the intelligence of AI (actually even putting I into AI) devs are just increasing numbers of npcs. Which imho is pretty bad...
I'm sure devs want to make AI better. But why don't they? Increased server CPU use would kill the server? Don't have enough time to implement it? Don't have competent people who can actually make a decent AI?
What do you call a decent AI? No game have decent AI and won't have for very long time,
More importantly - Spawn and AI are two exclusive things, unless AI as a complex application
(Agent+Rules applied to the growing Knowledge base) implemented into a core of spawn,
basically generating "smarter" rats after each battle. In theory it will lead to the very "smart" rats which will be almost impossible to kill. Oh, nice. Such rats can even
have their own names and can be treated as IPC.
Olivin
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VossKarr
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Posted - 2004.12.03 00:26:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Zrakor
Which is exactly why we will be using the deadspaces instead of the old system :).
Which is exactly why I'll be using my Cerberus... equiped with a 100mn AB, of course!
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VossKarr
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Posted - 2004.12.03 00:26:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Zrakor
Which is exactly why we will be using the deadspaces instead of the old system :).
Which is exactly why I'll be using my Cerberus... equiped with a 100mn AB, of course!
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Janos Audron
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Posted - 2004.12.03 00:47:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Janos Audron on 03/12/2004 00:51:20
just a couple of comments :/
things like the khanid mission are still easy in a apoc if setup right :/
a raven definately does the missions faster and has less trouble, but as usual costs quite a bit more (or view it less profit) overall due to missile use.
haven't done the zor deadspace mission yet, as haven't come across it, but waiting for it still :P if atleast just to have a look and say "no thanks" :P
but people seem to be complaining about collecting loot in deadspace :/ ur willing to realise u may need help with the missions in killing the npc's :/ so y not just get another person there with sumthing with decent cargo (probe, indy) and use them with a speed setup to collect the loot :/
personally i have 2 accounts, use 1 in a apoc to do all the missions (half i still just have him with a mwd on for it), and 2nd account with iteron V with afterburners and nanofibers for deadspace loot collection.
7.5k cargo still doing 530m/s in deadspace, and 11+k cargo doing 830m/s out of deadspace :/
and like others have said, deadspace loot generally sucks, so easy enough to just have a probe or even sumthing like imicus/inquisitor go collect loot....
cs:source sos-s33k3r
diaspora: s33k3r, hexxeh
always do right. this will gratify some people, and astonish the rest.
Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! |
Janos Audron
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Posted - 2004.12.03 00:47:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Janos Audron on 03/12/2004 00:51:20
just a couple of comments :/
things like the khanid mission are still easy in a apoc if setup right :/
a raven definately does the missions faster and has less trouble, but as usual costs quite a bit more (or view it less profit) overall due to missile use.
haven't done the zor deadspace mission yet, as haven't come across it, but waiting for it still :P if atleast just to have a look and say "no thanks" :P
but people seem to be complaining about collecting loot in deadspace :/ ur willing to realise u may need help with the missions in killing the npc's :/ so y not just get another person there with sumthing with decent cargo (probe, indy) and use them with a speed setup to collect the loot :/
personally i have 2 accounts, use 1 in a apoc to do all the missions (half i still just have him with a mwd on for it), and 2nd account with iteron V with afterburners and nanofibers for deadspace loot collection.
7.5k cargo still doing 530m/s in deadspace, and 11+k cargo doing 830m/s out of deadspace :/
and like others have said, deadspace loot generally sucks, so easy enough to just have a probe or even sumthing like imicus/inquisitor go collect loot....
cs:source sos-s33k3r
diaspora: s33k3r, hexxeh
always do right. this will gratify some people, and astonish the rest.
Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! |
G8torSkull
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Posted - 2004.12.03 02:15:00 -
[85]
Edited by: G8torSkull on 03/12/2004 02:18:28
Originally by: Janos Audron
Edited by: Janos Audron on 03/12/2004 00:51:20
just a couple of comments :/
things like the khanid mission are still easy in a apoc if setup right :/
a raven definately does the missions faster and has less trouble, but as usual costs quite a bit more (or view it less profit) overall due to missile use.
haven't done the zor deadspace mission yet, as haven't come across it, but waiting for it still :P if atleast just to have a look and say "no thanks" :P
but people seem to be complaining about collecting loot in deadspace :/ ur willing to realise u may need help with the missions in killing the npc's :/ so y not just get another person there with sumthing with decent cargo (probe, indy) and use them with a speed setup to collect the loot :/
personally i have 2 accounts, use 1 in a apoc to do all the missions (half i still just have him with a mwd on for it), and 2nd account with iteron V with afterburners and nanofibers for deadspace loot collection.
7.5k cargo still doing 530m/s in deadspace, and 11+k cargo doing 830m/s out of deadspace :/
and like others have said, deadspace loot generally sucks, so easy enough to just have a probe or even sumthing like imicus/inquisitor go collect loot....
the khanid misison is not fast in a raven. it took me close to 3 hours or even longer to do it solo
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G8torSkull
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Posted - 2004.12.03 02:15:00 -
[86]
Edited by: G8torSkull on 03/12/2004 02:18:28
Originally by: Janos Audron
Edited by: Janos Audron on 03/12/2004 00:51:20
just a couple of comments :/
things like the khanid mission are still easy in a apoc if setup right :/
a raven definately does the missions faster and has less trouble, but as usual costs quite a bit more (or view it less profit) overall due to missile use.
haven't done the zor deadspace mission yet, as haven't come across it, but waiting for it still :P if atleast just to have a look and say "no thanks" :P
but people seem to be complaining about collecting loot in deadspace :/ ur willing to realise u may need help with the missions in killing the npc's :/ so y not just get another person there with sumthing with decent cargo (probe, indy) and use them with a speed setup to collect the loot :/
personally i have 2 accounts, use 1 in a apoc to do all the missions (half i still just have him with a mwd on for it), and 2nd account with iteron V with afterburners and nanofibers for deadspace loot collection.
7.5k cargo still doing 530m/s in deadspace, and 11+k cargo doing 830m/s out of deadspace :/
and like others have said, deadspace loot generally sucks, so easy enough to just have a probe or even sumthing like imicus/inquisitor go collect loot....
the khanid misison is not fast in a raven. it took me close to 3 hours or even longer to do it solo
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marakolli
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Posted - 2004.12.03 04:28:00 -
[87]
Ok what ships and setups you guys using to solo lvl 4 kill missions?
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marakolli
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 04:28:00 -
[88]
Ok what ships and setups you guys using to solo lvl 4 kill missions?
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Carpe Diem
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Posted - 2004.12.03 06:05:00 -
[89]
Originally by: marakolli
Ok what ships and setups you guys using to solo lvl 4 kill missions?
mkay.. @ first you need a tissue tech2,then...
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Carpe Diem
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Posted - 2004.12.03 06:05:00 -
[90]
Originally by: marakolli
Ok what ships and setups you guys using to solo lvl 4 kill missions?
mkay.. @ first you need a tissue tech2,then...
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dosperado
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Posted - 2004.12.03 08:00:00 -
[91]
To summarize this thread:
We ALL dont need deadspace missions
They suck in every single way!
No MWD
BAD Loot
Custom Warp-in not possible
Forced to use short range setup
Risk vs. Reward not balanced in any way
So PUT them OUT, nobody needs Deadspace missions!
____________________
CEO Denial of Service
NPC Mass Murderer | Security Status 6.4 |
dosperado
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 08:00:00 -
[92]
To summarize this thread:
We ALL dont need deadspace missions
They suck in every single way!
No MWD
BAD Loot
Custom Warp-in not possible
Forced to use short range setup
Risk vs. Reward not balanced in any way
So PUT them OUT, nobody needs Deadspace missions!
____________________
CEO Denial of Service
NPC Mass Murderer | Security Status 6.4 |
Lysanne
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 08:48:00 -
[93]
Quote:
Which is exactly why we will be using the deadspaces instead of the old system :).
One year of using my blastertron like it¦s made for. and watching npc¦s going way faster then my ship (including NPC BS) you totally screw up a whole gallente setup just to avoid people using long range kiting strategys....
well, you solve a problem by creating a new one (if npc¦s keep up range so blasters cant hit them - arent them kiting too ?)
need translation ? |
Lysanne
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 08:48:00 -
[94]
Quote:
Which is exactly why we will be using the deadspaces instead of the old system :).
One year of using my blastertron like it¦s made for. and watching npc¦s going way faster then my ship (including NPC BS) you totally screw up a whole gallente setup just to avoid people using long range kiting strategys....
well, you solve a problem by creating a new one (if npc¦s keep up range so blasters cant hit them - arent them kiting too ?)
need translation ? |
Zrakor
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 10:39:00 -
[95]
We are aware of the close range setup issue in deadsdpaces and it is being worked on diligently by our PVE balancing team.
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2004.12.03 10:39:00 -
[96]
We are aware of the close range setup issue in deadsdpaces and it is being worked on diligently by our PVE balancing team.
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Hakera
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Posted - 2004.12.03 10:59:00 -
[97]
why do people complain about missions which are designed for group play when they try to do them solo! 
Zrakor, beef the mission diffculty up imo, it wont be long before they are too easy again after this whinging. The blasterthon pilots will have to wait till the speed mods are balanced.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Hakera
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 10:59:00 -
[98]
why do people complain about missions which are designed for group play when they try to do them solo!
Zrakor, beef the mission diffculty up imo, it wont be long before they are too easy again after this whinging. The blasterthon pilots will have to wait till the speed mods are balanced.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Mephistophilus
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Posted - 2004.12.03 11:34:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Zrakor
Which is exactly why we will be using the deadspaces instead of the old system :).
but isn't that what MWD's are for?....ya know...going fast so you can keep optimal range on your guns...the cap and shield pelenty is harsh enough to allow people to use the modules that you put in to this game also those interceptors that you throw in to every level 4 mission with warp scamblers and webbers, wouldnt that counter the mwd, we can only mwd for so long you know
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Mephistophilus
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Posted - 2004.12.03 11:34:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Zrakor
Which is exactly why we will be using the deadspaces instead of the old system :).
but isn't that what MWD's are for?....ya know...going fast so you can keep optimal range on your guns...the cap and shield pelenty is harsh enough to allow people to use the modules that you put in to this game also those interceptors that you throw in to every level 4 mission with warp scamblers and webbers, wouldnt that counter the mwd, we can only mwd for so long you know
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Sternburg Export
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Posted - 2004.12.03 15:30:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Sternburg Export on 03/12/2004 15:33:15
Originally by: Hakera
why do people complain about missions which are designed for group play when they try to do them solo!
Zrakor, beef the mission diffculty up imo, it wont be long before they are too easy again after this whinging. The blasterthon pilots will have to wait till the speed mods are balanced.
*cough* kissing the Dev¦s ass *cough*
the idea of Deadspace is great...
But CCP made crap with deadspace... They didn¦t balanced it the right way... Thats the point...
everything should have a minimal chance that u can do it alone...
And what happens if level 5 agents will become public?
For sure u need an alliance, like someone stated before on this forum...
If now a group of 3 BS try to handle Deadspace missions.. and fail because of unbalanced NPC, what will happen if they do level 5 missions?
instead of balancing deadspace.. ccp introduced crappy things like Mining barges and stripminers...
Yeahhh wooot.. i dream every Night from Stripminers...
[/sarcasm]
They should balance things BEFORE they become public.. not when they are public...
They have a testserver were player can test changes and can give feedback to the dev¦s... But no... They wait until it¦s released..
Thats the point... Nothing more and nothing less...
and btw.. didn¦t u have to add some new stuff to eve-i, instead of posting those things on this forum?
____________________________
[ 2005.03.31 20:53:50 ] (mining) Your Basic Miner perfectly strikes Veldspar Roid, wrecking for 20 Ore units.
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Sternburg Export
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 15:30:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Sternburg Export on 03/12/2004 15:33:15
Originally by: Hakera
why do people complain about missions which are designed for group play when they try to do them solo!
Zrakor, beef the mission diffculty up imo, it wont be long before they are too easy again after this whinging. The blasterthon pilots will have to wait till the speed mods are balanced.
*cough* kissing the Dev¦s ass *cough*
the idea of Deadspace is great...
But CCP made crap with deadspace... They didn¦t balanced it the right way... Thats the point...
everything should have a minimal chance that u can do it alone...
And what happens if level 5 agents will become public?
For sure u need an alliance, like someone stated before on this forum...
If now a group of 3 BS try to handle Deadspace missions.. and fail because of unbalanced NPC, what will happen if they do level 5 missions?
instead of balancing deadspace.. ccp introduced crappy things like Mining barges and stripminers...
Yeahhh wooot.. i dream every Night from Stripminers...
[/sarcasm]
They should balance things BEFORE they become public.. not when they are public...
They have a testserver were player can test changes and can give feedback to the dev¦s... But no... They wait until it¦s released..
Thats the point... Nothing more and nothing less...
and btw.. didn¦t u have to add some new stuff to eve-i, instead of posting those things on this forum?
____________________________
[ 2005.03.31 20:53:50 ] (mining) Your Basic Miner perfectly strikes Veldspar Roid, wrecking for 20 Ore units.
|
MatStar
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 23:09:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Hakera
The blasterthon pilots will have to wait till the speed mods are balanced.
speed mods dont need to be destroyed!!! b4 exodus i used to use my rax to kick ass in lvl3 kill i'd mwd right into the rats and wtfpawn every last one of em...now i mite aswell sit on my ass in a raven and spamm torps at everything no fun in that
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MatStar
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Posted - 2004.12.03 23:09:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Hakera
The blasterthon pilots will have to wait till the speed mods are balanced.
speed mods dont need to be destroyed!!! b4 exodus i used to use my rax to kick ass in lvl3 kill i'd mwd right into the rats and wtfpawn every last one of em...now i mite aswell sit on my ass in a raven and spamm torps at everything no fun in that
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Nunnehi
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Posted - 2004.12.04 00:15:00 -
[105]
Range issue in deadspace? Can't use MWD but the target can? I was wondering how my Megathron got destroyed in a level 2 mission. 
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Nunnehi
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Posted - 2004.12.04 00:15:00 -
[106]
Range issue in deadspace? Can't use MWD but the target can? I was wondering how my Megathron got destroyed in a level 2 mission.
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Maxim Dane
|
Posted - 2004.12.04 01:20:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Maxim Dane on 04/12/2004 01:36:57
Edited by: Maxim Dane on 04/12/2004 01:22:54
I really take my hats of to CCP.... This is the most dumbest implementation of something i have ever witnessed in a game..
When i leave 4 other subscribers will vanish with me and that totals around 8 accounts....... All mission runners...
I do not like it when some1 chooses for me how to play the game i enjoy....especially if that game was originally intended to be played like I WANTED..... guess that was all just a big bluff.....
Bloody brilliant move..
"If it works, no need to fix it, NERF IT...." |
Maxim Dane
|
Posted - 2004.12.04 01:20:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Maxim Dane on 04/12/2004 01:36:57
Edited by: Maxim Dane on 04/12/2004 01:22:54
I really take my hats of to CCP.... This is the most dumbest implementation of something i have ever witnessed in a game..
When i leave 4 other subscribers will vanish with me and that totals around 8 accounts....... All mission runners...
I do not like it when some1 chooses for me how to play the game i enjoy....especially if that game was originally intended to be played like I WANTED..... guess that was all just a big bluff.....
Bloody brilliant move..
"If it works, no need to fix it, NERF IT...." |
Mishi Bangbang
|
Posted - 2004.12.04 02:25:00 -
[109]
I've just received a lvl 4 "Damsel in distress" mission and after warping to "60km" from beacon on my pod i find myself right in front of the beacon... around me from 3km to 50km? are several pirate ships including the 'ol Zor and sentries.
- my question is: Is this supposed to be a "who tanks longer" contest ?
The ammount of damage delivered is insane for a supported tank to endure, it's unfair to have mwd's used on ships other than ours leaving us dead in the... deadspace.
The warp in distances don't allow time for planning and counter measures other than tank the most and hope it holds enough to warp out... if not scrambled, which in most situations doesn't happen until you pin point the scramblers out of the big mess going on the screen... by that time there are high probabilities of getting a friendly mail from your friendly insurance company. I you manage to beat the mission you're rewarded with a few cans out of tens of destroyed ships containing nothing else than basic mods and the ocasional named basic mods.
I agree with the kitting and the necessity of having harder missions to keep the interest up but murder by numbers seems to be a "cheap" solution - leave that to alliances.
If the mwd's changes are here to stay, remove them from every drone other than inties. Fix the "warp in" distances, gang warp distances, berserk AI, loot and agent rewards.
Btw, thanks for this expansion. It's good to see content being updated and your efforts are not being overlooked... at least by me.
*2nd btw, there's a rally tomorrow in Pator 4th December - after downtime. Bring some Polaris friends.
bang
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Mishi Bangbang
|
Posted - 2004.12.04 02:25:00 -
[110]
I've just received a lvl 4 "Damsel in distress" mission and after warping to "60km" from beacon on my pod i find myself right in front of the beacon... around me from 3km to 50km? are several pirate ships including the 'ol Zor and sentries.
- my question is: Is this supposed to be a "who tanks longer" contest ?
The ammount of damage delivered is insane for a supported tank to endure, it's unfair to have mwd's used on ships other than ours leaving us dead in the... deadspace.
The warp in distances don't allow time for planning and counter measures other than tank the most and hope it holds enough to warp out... if not scrambled, which in most situations doesn't happen until you pin point the scramblers out of the big mess going on the screen... by that time there are high probabilities of getting a friendly mail from your friendly insurance company. I you manage to beat the mission you're rewarded with a few cans out of tens of destroyed ships containing nothing else than basic mods and the ocasional named basic mods.
I agree with the kitting and the necessity of having harder missions to keep the interest up but murder by numbers seems to be a "cheap" solution - leave that to alliances.
If the mwd's changes are here to stay, remove them from every drone other than inties. Fix the "warp in" distances, gang warp distances, berserk AI, loot and agent rewards.
Btw, thanks for this expansion. It's good to see content being updated and your efforts are not being overlooked... at least by me.
*2nd btw, there's a rally tomorrow in Pator 4th December - after downtime. Bring some Polaris friends.
bang
|
Infinity Ziona
|
Posted - 2004.12.04 03:27:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Olivin
Originally by: hatchette
Instead of increasing the intelligence of AI (actually even putting I into AI) devs are just increasing numbers of npcs. Which imho is pretty bad...
I'm sure devs want to make AI better. But why don't they? Increased server CPU use would kill the server? Don't have enough time to implement it? Don't have competent people who can actually make a decent AI?
What do you call a decent AI? No game have decent AI and won't have for very long time,
More importantly - Spawn and AI are two exclusive things, unless AI as a complex application
(Agent+Rules applied to the growing Knowledge base) implemented into a core of spawn,
basically generating "smarter" rats after each battle. In theory it will lead to the very "smart" rats which will be almost impossible to kill. Oh, nice. Such rats can even
have their own names and can be treated as IPC.
Olivin
You don't need to have some sort of neural network running but there could be improvements in the way NPC's interact.
Say you warp to a mission with 2 BS, 4 cruisers and 5 interceptors.
The interceptors lock you down. They don't turn off their AB's like the current inties do so you can kill them with missiles cruise, they stay at 2kps. You should be able to NOS and web them to slow them down.
The cruisers, lets say just for fun theres a blackbird, a thorax and 2 Mallers. Well the blackbird should JAM you, thats what blackbirds do. The Thorax should use MWD and close the range, deploying drones and using blasters. The Mallers should stay at optimal range, armor tank and use lasers.
These are just a few ways you could make npcs act more like dangerous opponents and less like flying HP batteries.
Also could employ some remote armor rep use, remote energy, shield restoration by npcs to other damaged npcs.
Infinity Ziona
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Infinity Ziona
|
Posted - 2004.12.04 03:27:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Olivin
Originally by: hatchette
Instead of increasing the intelligence of AI (actually even putting I into AI) devs are just increasing numbers of npcs. Which imho is pretty bad...
I'm sure devs want to make AI better. But why don't they? Increased server CPU use would kill the server? Don't have enough time to implement it? Don't have competent people who can actually make a decent AI?
What do you call a decent AI? No game have decent AI and won't have for very long time,
More importantly - Spawn and AI are two exclusive things, unless AI as a complex application
(Agent+Rules applied to the growing Knowledge base) implemented into a core of spawn,
basically generating "smarter" rats after each battle. In theory it will lead to the very "smart" rats which will be almost impossible to kill. Oh, nice. Such rats can even
have their own names and can be treated as IPC.
Olivin
You don't need to have some sort of neural network running but there could be improvements in the way NPC's interact.
Say you warp to a mission with 2 BS, 4 cruisers and 5 interceptors.
The interceptors lock you down. They don't turn off their AB's like the current inties do so you can kill them with missiles cruise, they stay at 2kps. You should be able to NOS and web them to slow them down.
The cruisers, lets say just for fun theres a blackbird, a thorax and 2 Mallers. Well the blackbird should JAM you, thats what blackbirds do. The Thorax should use MWD and close the range, deploying drones and using blasters. The Mallers should stay at optimal range, armor tank and use lasers.
These are just a few ways you could make npcs act more like dangerous opponents and less like flying HP batteries.
Also could employ some remote armor rep use, remote energy, shield restoration by npcs to other damaged npcs.
Infinity Ziona
|
Kaskamar
|
Posted - 2004.12.05 05:53:00 -
[113]
Aint you suppose do be able to do L4 alone ????
if not then what...L3 is to easy....
se my shop site
http://eve.frimurer.net |
Kaskamar
|
Posted - 2004.12.05 05:53:00 -
[114]
Aint you suppose do be able to do L4 alone ????
if not then what...L3 is to easy....
se my shop site
http://eve.frimurer.net |
Dimitri Chandler
|
Posted - 2004.12.05 08:33:00 -
[115]
Seems to me that fewer, harder npc enemies in deadspace and normal lvl4 missions is the answer.
ATM it is really very easy for 2 Ravens to take out any lvl4 mission. Seems like me and a pal took out the entire army of one particular NPC corp after ploughing through 10 or so waves of them in different locations all for the same mission. Once you can kill one, you can kill them all.
However, the point about them jamming / dampening / using magic hax or whatever is a valid one. If one or both of us had been target jammed during these missions then a whole new ballgame opens up and this would certainly make the missions a little harder. We need better, more intelligent NPCs in these missions to make them more challenging, not simply larger numbers. The loot was also disappointing, considering they had no bounties and the missions can take quite a long time for poor reward.
"Your bullets cannot harm me, my wings are like a shieeeeeeeeeld of steeeeel!!!" |
Dimitri Chandler
|
Posted - 2004.12.05 08:33:00 -
[116]
Seems to me that fewer, harder npc enemies in deadspace and normal lvl4 missions is the answer.
ATM it is really very easy for 2 Ravens to take out any lvl4 mission. Seems like me and a pal took out the entire army of one particular NPC corp after ploughing through 10 or so waves of them in different locations all for the same mission. Once you can kill one, you can kill them all.
However, the point about them jamming / dampening / using magic hax or whatever is a valid one. If one or both of us had been target jammed during these missions then a whole new ballgame opens up and this would certainly make the missions a little harder. We need better, more intelligent NPCs in these missions to make them more challenging, not simply larger numbers. The loot was also disappointing, considering they had no bounties and the missions can take quite a long time for poor reward.
"Your bullets cannot harm me, my wings are like a shieeeeeeeeeld of steeeeel!!!" |
Lagar
|
Posted - 2004.12.05 11:44:00 -
[117]
about deadspace missions.. they should seriusly improve the rewards and the mission rats loot
drasticly improved... other than that only make sure that the rats arive a bit away from oneself so you actualy have time to prepair yourself or yer group for battle.. alittle unfair otherwise i think. 
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Lagar
|
Posted - 2004.12.05 11:44:00 -
[118]
about deadspace missions.. they should seriusly improve the rewards and the mission rats loot
drasticly improved... other than that only make sure that the rats arive a bit away from oneself so you actualy have time to prepair yourself or yer group for battle.. alittle unfair otherwise i think.
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Mishi Bangbang
|
Posted - 2004.12.05 15:15:00 -
[119]
From another thread :
Originally by: Gungankllr
Aye. I had made another thread about this, but I think that level 4 missions should be categorized in two groups, by the agent type.
L4 Security: Missions for solo battleship pilots which should be equivalent to a 0.0 Battleship spawn (or greater) these missions should be challenging, but not enough to completely own a solo player with no hope of completion.
L4 Command: Missions for fleets of players to interact, should be far more difficult than standard L4 missions. These missions should be nigh impossible for a solo player.
There's alot of ppl including myself who's been doing missions on their own since lvl1 agents and find the difficulty leap to be too great from lvl3 to lvl4. This is only because of the current deadspace missions rules/bugs(?).
I know the idea is to get more ppl involved in the same mission but not everyone has support wings available at a given time. By categorizing lvl4 kill missions into 2 divisions make it more worthwhile for solo players and gang players.
I'm not saying to nerf current lvl4 missions, if anything increase their difficulty but fix the "issues" already posted on this and other threads.
If the point of these missions is to get Ravens then ...
bang
|
Mishi Bangbang
|
Posted - 2004.12.05 15:15:00 -
[120]
From another thread :
Originally by: Gungankllr
Aye. I had made another thread about this, but I think that level 4 missions should be categorized in two groups, by the agent type.
L4 Security: Missions for solo battleship pilots which should be equivalent to a 0.0 Battleship spawn (or greater) these missions should be challenging, but not enough to completely own a solo player with no hope of completion.
L4 Command: Missions for fleets of players to interact, should be far more difficult than standard L4 missions. These missions should be nigh impossible for a solo player.
There's alot of ppl including myself who's been doing missions on their own since lvl1 agents and find the difficulty leap to be too great from lvl3 to lvl4. This is only because of the current deadspace missions rules/bugs(?).
I know the idea is to get more ppl involved in the same mission but not everyone has support wings available at a given time. By categorizing lvl4 kill missions into 2 divisions make it more worthwhile for solo players and gang players.
I'm not saying to nerf current lvl4 missions, if anything increase their difficulty but fix the "issues" already posted on this and other threads.
If the point of these missions is to get Ravens then ...
bang
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