I find it interesting that this has not been noted before. There seems to be a "discrepancy" with the Shield Power relay modules.

The named meta 4 module uses less CPU than the Meta 5 Tech 2 module but suffers no penalty. Both give a 24% shield recharge bonus, both have a -35% capacitor recharge penalty, but the meta 4 uses 16tf and the Tech II Meta 5 uses 20tf.

Now I know that since its a tech 2 your supposed to have Energy-grid upgrades to at least IV making the CPU difference negligible, but this just doesn't make sense. By spending just a few 100k more ISK on the named meta 4 you can get the same performance as the Tech 2 mod without any penalty.

It may not be my place but I'd recommend either increasing the cap recharge penalty or making the shield recharge rate lower to balance the low CPU usage.

There are lots of Meta 4 modules that have better stats than the T2 version. That's no reason to nerf them.

What they should fix is meta 5 t2 guns being better than meta 6+ faction/officer guns.

Meta 4 costs more, therefore it has better bonuses, simple as that

What they should fix is meta 5 t2 guns being better than meta 6+ faction/officer guns.P

Meta 4 costs more, therefore it has better bonuses, simple as that

A lot of other t2 modules are like that, offering no benefits over meta 4, ever since t2 were introduced. And no, gimping meta 4 isn't the way to go. They were there first, why should they be gimped all of a sudden for the sole purpose of making t2 look good in comparison?

I find it interesting that this has not been noted before.

Then buff the Tech II. Meta 4 require maybe 2 hours of training to use, Tech II mods often require days of training to use. There is a reason they're a meta 5 and not a meta 4.

Yeah I know some say "Its better because it costs more" no actually it costs more because its better. If the Tech II mods were better the cost would increase just take a look at the Large Shield Extender II it costs more that the Regolith, why? Because its better.


TL:DR Something isn't better if it costs more, it costs more because its better (just think on this statement for awhile and it'll make sense, or take a logic class). Why does something that takes an hour to train give less use that something that takes days to train?

Yeah I know some say "Its better because it costs more" no actually it costs more because its better. If the Tech II mods were better the cost would increase just take a look at the Large Shield Extender II it costs more that the Regolith, why? Because its better.


TL:DR Something isn't better if it costs more, it costs more because its better (just think on this statement for awhile and it'll make sense, or take a logic class). Why does something that takes an hour to train give less use that something that takes days to train?

Why does something that takes an hour to train give less use that something that takes days to train?

Unfortunately Eve Online doesn't use other MMOG's loot rules.

For example with EverQuest/EQ II, if it drops from a difficult group mob, it will be worth more (and be better )than something found off a orc pawn near Freeport.

If it drops from a raid mob, it will be worth more (and be better than) anything else below it.

Mastercrafted items in EQ II are better than NPC city bought or handcrafted player made.

CCP needs to just fix the tags or up stats on/ for some mods, turning them from NPC dropped M4 to T2 or the other way around.

I find it amazing how stuff like this goes on for years with CCP but if it was EQ / EQ II SoE it would have been fixed before CCP ever got around to it.

fortunately Eve Online doesn't use other MMOG's loot rules.

I find it amazing how stuff like this goes on for years with CCP but if it was EQ / EQ II SoE it would have been fixed before CCP ever got around to it.

Why can't they fit t2 into the existing hierarchy?

Because they're not in the same hierarchy.

Or, rather, there are two hierarchies: T1 GÇô T3 (aka manufacturable stuff) and Meta 1GÇô4, 6-14 (aka drops).

In a sense, you're right: they shouldn't be Meta 5. They shouldn't have any meta level at all because they're not in that class of items. T2 fit perfectly into the hierarchy they're actually in: more capable, more difficult to manufacture, cost more than T1, but less so than T3. They don't follow the same rules as Meta items because the meta items are not just subject to some (supposedGǪ but not entirely consistent) increase in quality, but also to strict limitations (and completely different mechanics) of supply.

The market forces for the two are not the same, so there is pretty much no way to make the two categories follow the same GÇ£progressionGÇ¥ when it comes to cost/benefit/performace.

Even if you put aside meta, the cost/performance for some t2s are simply too far out of line.

1 mil t2 guns outperform 100 mil faction guns, and even many officer guns costing 500 mil or more.

Yes, there's skill/fitting, and in come cases, cap drawbacks, but is it really worth that much?

You would not expect a t3 ship to cost 1/100th of a t1 ship, under any circumstances. Why is this acceptable for modules?

How so?
So what? If people are stupid enough to pay that much for less performance, that's their problem GÇö you can't fix stupid. If people want to fall for the Estamel GÇ£brandGÇ¥, then good for them (and even better for whomever trips over an Estamel spawn).

When you say that GÇ£the cost/performance for some t2s are simply too far out of lineGÇ¥, it sounds like you're suggesting that there is a connection between the two GÇö that one has to follow the other. There isn't, and they don't. The two are almost completely elastic. Instead, that's just the market doing what the market does. Tbh, it's not even that strange GÇö mid-price stuff is almost always vastly superior in terms of the bang for your buck.

Also, it rather sounds like you're banking on a singular definition of GÇ£performanceGÇ¥, when the fact of the matter is that no, T2 guns do not unconditionally GÇ£outperformGÇ¥ other guns.
Quite obviously, yes.
It doesn't happen for modules either, so that's a rather academic questionGǪ

What they should fix is meta 5 t2 guns being better than meta 6+ faction/officer guns.

Mid range stuff normally don't outperform top of the line stuff.

There should be a connection between price and performance.

It's okay for a mod costing 100 times as much as another to only slightly outperform it, but not the reverse.

And what influences the supply? The drop tables. And who writes the drop tables? CCP.

Certainly, the market plays a part, but it's well within CCP's power to manipulate it