Originally by: Captain Futur3

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This is not a proof where you can say that the combat system in Eve is dynamic and skill dependant. Its a single example of ONE ship class where skill *might* be more important than in a common situation. Do you want every pilot to fly a stealth bomber now?
Also, there are so many people here who say that skill and dynamic is already in the game. I say show me/us. There are hundreds of good Eve combat videos, but so far, i havent seen a single one where i would say the combat system needs skill or is dynamic, or where the pilot made an important change in his tactic and then won the battle he would have lost else.

I have made not much PvP in Eve (maybe 40-50 PvP battles), but so far, in all battles i had, i couldnt do much at all. I won a lot of these battles, even against T3 strat cruisers in my BC, but all i did was activating my modules and orbiting the enemy. Not more. The enemy did all the time the same.

So what you all are saying now is that all people i have met so far are playing Eve wrong and only the rest who i didnt saw know how to play eve with the right skill.

I am sorry, but until i have seen some good examples of "skill" and dynamic, i simply dont believe your words. On the other side, i can show a lot of vids which show that Eve combat is static and dont needs skill.

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Originally by: Captain Futur3

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Yes, that might be true and i believe you that you have such a ship. But this still does not change the fact that EVE combat is static in general. If 95% of all battles are static and if you are playing in the 5% which are different, it does not change the fact that the combat system in Eve is static.
The conclusion of your arguementation would be to put every pilot into a fast interceptor or frig, just to make the combat dynamic and skillful.
My response would be: what about the other ships?

Also, we in our corp did weekly frig tournamenst with small teams, and even in these fights, the combats were quite static and the fitting decided 90% of the battles or more. In 4/5 fights, the result was clear before the battle even started.

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Originally by: Captain Futur3

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Originally by: baltec1

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Edited by: baltec1 on 05/05/2010 18:33:40

Originally by: Captain Futur3

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Yes, that might be true and i believe you that you have such a ship. But this still does not change the fact that EVE combat is static in general. If 95% of all battles are static and if you are playing in the 5% which are different, it does not change the fact that the combat system in Eve is static.
The conclusion of your arguementation would be to put every pilot into a fast interceptor or frig, just to make the combat dynamic and skillful.
My response would be: what about the other ships?

Also, we in our corp did weekly frig tournamenst with small teams, and even in these fights, the combats were quite static and the fitting decided 90% of the battles or more. In 4/5 fights, the result was clear before the battle even started.

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I would say this is an issue with the way you and your corp fly as I and my corp go into fights in a very different way to you.

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Why is it an issue? I won more battles than i lost and when i lost, it was mainly because the other team was bigger (not counting my first battles where i had no skills and experience in PvP).
And here comes my point, that without any skill at all, i won against players who play eve since 3 or more years and fly even better ships. Its all the fitting that decides who will win.

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Originally by: Captain Futur3

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Edited by: Captain Futur3 on 05/05/2010 19:07:36
Yeah because its so difficult to use a microwarpdrive, a neutralizer, a shield booster or a RR. I always have problems with that :(. Same goes for the skills in game. I still dont know how to use my medium autocannon specialisation skill.

fail.

Edit:
Really, Eve is a great game and even PvP has some cool elements. For example its awesome that even when you have a lot of SP, the smaller ships are still interesting. You can kill players that play way longer than you and the best part is that when you die, your ship explodes.
But with all love, the combat system itself is rubbish.

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Originally by: Captain Futur3

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:( it seems that i am unable to explain you the point of a dynamic and static combat system. Maybe its because i am not a native english speaker.
But the arguement that a sniper can kill a whole fleet when they are in a bad position has nothing to do with this. The outcome of such a battle is simple math and has not much to do with skill in the combat directly.

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Originally by: Captain Futur3

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Originally by: baltec1

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The apoc pilot used several safes around the gate to stay away from the enemy gang who were daft enough to fly directly towards the apoc, meaning his beams were hitting for full effect. They had a bomber pilot who could have gone out to get a warp in on top of the apoc but he died trying to burn towards him uncloked.

As I said, just because you have good ships doesnt mean you will be good.

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ah ok, now i understand why you made this example. But still, the bookmarks are not something i would call a dynamic element because you cant do them IN combat. Its more comparable to a good fitting you chose before the combat starts. So its more a strategy instead of a tactic.

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Originally by: Captain Futur3

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Ok i will explain it.

1. The plan ahead style of Eve is good and shall stay as it. I like it and its interesting to have different fittings for different ships. But it has nothing to do with dynamic combat. Dont see only black and whit as i have said before. You can have combat where it is important to plan ahead and where it is important to make tactical decisions in combat at the same time. There is nothing wrong with it.
2. The arguement i shall fly an interceptor to get my dynamic combat is fail. Why shall i fly a weak ship with no dps output, no cargo and so on, just to get dynamic combat. I can not even make WHs or missions with them and PvP does not only happen when you want PvP. Most of my PvP fights happened inside a WH and i was in the defender position.
3. Its not 30-40%. Else show me the vids where i can see that. All vids i have seen so far and all combats i have made so far were pure static combats. The only dynamic factor was support which came into the battle.

Dynamic combat should be important in every combat. In the small 1vs1 as in the big fleet fights. Also it should not only be fixed for the inties but for battleships too. Why? Because most battles are fought in these class of ships.
Else would you call the addition of a ship class that you can fly with your joystic like in a fleight simulator the way to make Eve combat more dynamic? Its not.

Its if you say the balance of a game is broken and you want to fix it by adding a perfect balanced unit to the game. That does not help the balance itself.

Thats my point.

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Originally by: Captain Futur3

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And you are still on the wrong path.

Dynamic combat has NOTHING to do with fast and small.
Think of it like in Star Trek where Captain Picard gives tactical orders while he is fighting against other ships. For example where shall the weapons hit the target, which weapons shall be fired and when, where shall the energy go, shall the warp energy be shut down to prevent a warp core explosion, what about the direction the ship shall fly, what about ramming the other ship, and so on...
All this has an effect of a fight between 2 equally fitted same ships. In eve, you can do very very little of the above said mainly because nearly all modules and weapons in Eve work sustained and that you can not target or dodge.

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Originally by: Captain Futur3

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Quote:

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Dont know much about tracking speed and transversal velocity do you?

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I think i do, but dont know what comes next from you :D.

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Originally by: Captain Futur3

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Originally by: baltec1

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Originally by: Captain Futur3

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Quote:

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Dont know much about tracking speed and transversal velocity do you?

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I think i do, but dont know what comes next from you :D.

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I dont think you do. One of the first lessons I learned is that the numbers you see in EFT are never what you get in game. 90%+ of my tank on the bomber comes from my speed, angle of attack, sig radious and what I am getting shot at with. I am currenty doing the "dodging" in combat that you are wanting.

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But you have missed the part that i want dynamic combat for all ship classes, not just for your inti.
Also in general you orbit your target. Even when you fly a little inti. And there is absolutely no active skill you can use there. MAYBE you use a bit of a skill to get into orbiting range, but from then, the combat is simple math.
Also all these values you are telling me (velocity, sig radius,...) are all known before combat.
This is maybe my last post here because i am to tired to explain you what i mean with dynamic combat, but the point is, that you know all these little values like velocities, turn speed of turrets and so on before the combat starts.
Then theoretically, you can check both fittings of the fighting ships and you know with >>90% which ship will win. For example if you fly with a frig and want to attack a slow cruiser and you know that the cruiser has a webber, you know, the frig will lose.
But thats not what i call dynamic. Dynamic would be if even in such a situation, the frig could do something that is not fitting dependant to win against the cruiser.

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