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Issamailkin The Tuskers	Posted - 2010.05.07 19:21:00 - [61] Bear in mind that the boundary redrawing is based off of information that is a decade out of date. The Boundary commission only convenes every 10 - 15 years. And while scottish seats were cut from 72 to 54 it is unlikely that it will get much lower until the next boundary review. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes.
Borza Slavak Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.07 21:02:00 - [62] Really? The one part of the UK's electoral system you're whining about is boundaries? /facepalm
ReaperOfSly Gallente 1st Cavalry Division Primary.	Posted - 2010.05.07 21:22:00 - [63] Originally by: Borza Slavak Really? The one part of the UK's electoral system you're whining about is boundaries? /facepalm Given that it's the boundaries that have yielded such horribly distorted results, yes. It seems a reasonable thing to moan about. ____________________
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2010.05.07 21:31:00 - [64] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Tallaran Kouros Originally by: Issamailkin Edited by: Issamailkin on 07/05/2010 12:42:34 Labour has an in built advantage due to a more effective spread of support plus there comes the question of Scottish MP's in westminster who are overrepresented and almost all of them have an undying loyalty to the labour part. What makes you think there is over-representation? The boundaries have been redrawn lately to take this into account... Look at the election map on the BBC and you will have your answer. I'm really not sure what you are getting at. Voters in Scotland overwhelmingly chose not to return Conservative candidates to the Parliament of the United Kingdom. What has that got to do with over or under representation?
Borza Slavak Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.07 21:35:00 - [65] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Originally by: Borza Slavak Really? The one part of the UK's electoral system you're whining about is boundaries? /facepalm Given that it's the boundaries that have yielded such horribly distorted results, yes. It seems a reasonable thing to moan about. Yeah sure, the boundaries, not the First Past the Post voting system.
Issamailkin The Tuskers	Posted - 2010.05.07 21:40:00 - [66] Well actually the First past the post system has served us well in providing us with a series of relatively stable governments in the post war era. However more recently its effectiveness has come into question with partisan dealignment. Perhaps it is time for a new system that will echo those on mainland Europe that will allow smaller niche parties a chance at government in the form of large varied coalitions. This can be argued as a good thing or bad thing but ultimately we'll have to see if we can get a referendum and if the british people will vote for change. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes.
ReaperOfSly Gallente 1st Cavalry Division Primary.	Posted - 2010.05.08 15:50:00 - [67] Originally by: Borza Slavak Originally by: ReaperOfSly Originally by: Borza Slavak Really? The one part of the UK's electoral system you're whining about is boundaries? /facepalm Given that it's the boundaries that have yielded such horribly distorted results, yes. It seems a reasonable thing to moan about. Yeah sure, the boundaries, not the First Past the Post voting system. Well you can't really have one without the other. If we had proportional representation, constituency boundaries would be more-or-less moot, since decisions that affect local areas tend to be made by the local council anyway, not MPs. I am hoping now that Cleggy Boy will grasp the nettle and form a coalition with the Tories in exchange for proportional representation. The Tories might not accept that bargain, but I think the offer should be made. Of course there is a downside to proportional representation: the BNP would get 12 seats in parliament under that system. ____________________
Borza Slavak Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.08 18:08:00 - [68] There are more options than just FPTP and PR. See here: Linkage
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2010.05.08 18:43:00 - [69] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Well you can't really have one without the other. If we had proportional representation, constituency boundaries would be more-or-less moot, since decisions that affect local areas tend to be made by the local council anyway, not MPs. In Scotland I have one directly elected MSP to represent my constutency and then several further that have been proportionally elected from their party's regional list. I can raise an issue with any one of them I choose. They all represent my area but I have a cross-party list of representatives to choose from. I like the system and whilst it's not perfect, it's better than FPTP. Quote: I am hoping now that Cleggy Boy will grasp the nettle and form a coalition with the Tories in exchange for proportional representation. The Tories might not accept that bargain, but I think the offer should be made. Cameron is only offering a cross party inquery into reform. I can't see that being enough for the Lib Dems, nor can I see backbench Conservative MPs supporting a full referrendum. Clegg would be a fool to throw away the best chance for electoral reform in decades and no matter what you think of Gordon Brown, the best chance to reform our system is for Labour and the Lib Dems to enter a coalition. The minor parties would all gain under PR and I can see a coalition leader being able to command a majority in the Commons. Quote: Of course there is a downside to proportional representation: the BNP would get 12 seats in parliament under that system. That would depend on what PR system is chosen, but there would indeed be some BNP MPs. This is unfortunate, but the price of democracy is that you have to give a voice to everyone - even those that you have no desire to hear. On the other hand, the rest of Europe seems to cope well enough with giving the far right seats in their parliaments so I can't see this being a problem.
ChaeDoc II Gallente Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.08 19:30:00 - [70] Originally by: Tallaran Kouros Stuff, then... [quote Of course there is a downside to proportional representation: the BNP would get 12 seats in parliament under that system. That would depend on what PR system is chosen, but there would indeed be some BNP MPs. This is unfortunate, but the price of democracy is that you have to give a voice to everyone - even those that you have no desire to hear. On the other hand, the rest of Europe seems to cope well enough with giving the far right seats in their parliaments so I can't see this being a problem. We've already seen how well the BNP perform when put under a national spotlight and put along side far superior minds. PR wouldn't be as good for them as you might think :)
Issamailkin The Tuskers	Posted - 2010.05.08 19:46:00 - [71] Originally by: Borza Slavak There are more options than just FPTP and PR. See here: Linkage STV, AV and borda are types of PR mate Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes.
Musical Fist Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.05.09 00:25:00 - [72] Edited by: Musical Fist on 09/05/2010 00:30:33 I have a hutch Nick Clegg was hot when he was younger, anyone who can confirm this with pics ofc ;) Also I love the way libs are going, siding with the better evil England just got interesting again ;) I wonder who the queen voted for ;) This is so not my main
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.05.09 20:26:00 - [73] Originally by: Tallaran Kouros What makes you think there is over-representation? The boundaries have been redrawn lately to take this into account... Look at the election map on the BBC and you will have your answer. I'm really not sure what you are getting at. Voters in Scotland overwhelmingly chose not to return Conservative candidates to the Parliament of the United Kingdom. What has that got to do with over or under representation? Well sunderland gets 3 MPs... My area has around the same population as those three areas but only gets one MP over a much wider area.
Borza Slavak Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.10 19:55:00 - [74] Originally by: Issamailkin Originally by: Borza Slavak There are more options than just FPTP and PR. See here: Linkage STV, AV and borda are types of PR mate AV is hardly a form of PR.
ReaperOfSly Gallente 1st Cavalry Division Primary.	Posted - 2010.05.10 20:05:00 - [75] Originally by: Musical Fist I wonder who the queen voted for ;) The Queen doesn't vote. There's no law against it, it's more by convention since she's supposed to be impartial. ____________________
Issamailkin The Tuskers	Posted - 2010.05.10 20:09:00 - [76] Originally by: Borza Slavak Originally by: Issamailkin Originally by: Borza Slavak There are more options than just FPTP and PR. See here: Linkage STV, AV and borda are types of PR mate AV is hardly a form of PR. You are correct, it is more of a majoritarian system but can result in similar outcomes while being not a being a big divergence from what we already have in place Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes.
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2010.05.10 21:13:00 - [77] Originally by: baltec1 Well sunderland gets 3 MPs... My area has around the same population as those three areas but only gets one MP over a much wider area. I still don't really see what you are trying to get at. There are 5.06 Million people in Scotland and 59 MPs to represent them, so that works out at around 85,700 constituents per MP. England has a population of just over 49 Million and 533 MPs, which works out at around 92,000 constituents per person. I suppose if you really wanted to you could quibble over those extra 7,000 people, but in all honesty much of Scotland is rural and whilst individual MPs might have more or less constituents it can be difficult for a single MP to cover a large geographical area. Whilst I've not done the calculations, I would suspect that the figures for Wales would be somewhat similar. It's for this reason that public spending per head is higher in Scotland than it is in England and Wales - it simply costs more to provide public services across such a wide geographic area.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.05.10 22:09:00 - [78] Originally by: Tallaran Kouros Originally by: baltec1 Well sunderland gets 3 MPs... My area has around the same population as those three areas but only gets one MP over a much wider area. I still don't really see what you are trying to get at. There are 5.06 Million people in Scotland and 59 MPs to represent them, so that works out at around 85,700 constituents per MP. England has a population of just over 49 Million and 533 MPs, which works out at around 92,000 constituents per person. I suppose if you really wanted to you could quibble over those extra 7,000 people, but in all honesty much of Scotland is rural and whilst individual MPs might have more or less constituents it can be difficult for a single MP to cover a large geographical area. Whilst I've not done the calculations, I would suspect that the figures for Wales would be somewhat similar. It's for this reason that public spending per head is higher in Scotland than it is in England and Wales - it simply costs more to provide public services across such a wide geographic area. Its nothing to do with scotland its the little clumps of MPs in a small area. I just dont see why sunderland needs 3 MPs.
Borza Slavak Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.11 07:27:00 - [79] Population density, do you speak it? Good work choosing one of about half a dozen areas where there are actually boundary changes recommended, but it's hardly representative as the Boundary Commission seems quite happy with most constituencies.
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2010.05.11 09:59:00 - [80] Originally by: baltec1 Its nothing to do with scotland its the little clumps of MPs in a small area. I just dont see why sunderland needs 3 MPs. It's part down to geographic area, but also down to the number of constituents. I don't mean to be funny, but did you read my previous response? The 2001 census pegged the population of Sunderland at 177,739. Split into 3 MPs that's just under 60,000 constituents PER REPRESENTATIVE. That seems reasonable to me, given the population density...

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