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theRaptor
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Posted - 2004.12.06 02:17:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Your first mistake was expecting anything other than failure from an assault frigate. These ships are so hilariously underpowered - Amarr especially - that you might as well buy a brick for 20 million ISK and throw it at the enemy.
Istvaan I am interested in purchasing one of these T2 bricks of you. Convo me ingame.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2004.12.06 02:17:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Your first mistake was expecting anything other than failure from an assault frigate. These ships are so hilariously underpowered - Amarr especially - that you might as well buy a brick for 20 million ISK and throw it at the enemy.
Istvaan I am interested in purchasing one of these T2 bricks of you. Convo me ingame.
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Ardor
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Posted - 2004.12.06 02:43:00 -
[33]
Originally by: DarkMatters
It was bad before exodus and needed changing, but now with the missiles adjusting to go straight to a target, smaller ships don?t have a prayer.
As far as I know it's a bug that missiles go straight to their target caused by the exodus patch which tried to bring the explosion animation closer to the ship. I do believe this will change back to old behaviour because small ships really have no chance to survive against missile spammers.
A second thing is that devs are thinking about different amount of damage against differend sized ships so that a torpedo wouldnt do that huge anount of damage against a frig. Missiles will not stay the way they are now.
But the way it currently is working the outcome of this battle is not a surprise. I am surprised that an experienced fighter like you who usually is fighting on a daily basis didnt knew about this new missile behaviour. Maybe you were to busy to build one of the very first POS?
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Ardor
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Posted - 2004.12.06 02:43:00 -
[34]
Originally by: DarkMatters
It was bad before exodus and needed changing, but now with the missiles adjusting to go straight to a target, smaller ships don?t have a prayer.
As far as I know it's a bug that missiles go straight to their target caused by the exodus patch which tried to bring the explosion animation closer to the ship. I do believe this will change back to old behaviour because small ships really have no chance to survive against missile spammers.
A second thing is that devs are thinking about different amount of damage against differend sized ships so that a torpedo wouldnt do that huge anount of damage against a frig. Missiles will not stay the way they are now.
But the way it currently is working the outcome of this battle is not a surprise. I am surprised that an experienced fighter like you who usually is fighting on a daily basis didnt knew about this new missile behaviour. Maybe you were to busy to build one of the very first POS?
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Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2004.12.06 02:56:00 -
[35]
As matters stand, no pun intended DM, missiles are imbalanced in regards to the lighter ship classes.
This will change. Soon ;)
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Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2004.12.06 02:56:00 -
[36]
As matters stand, no pun intended DM, missiles are imbalanced in regards to the lighter ship classes.
This will change. Soon ;)
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Clay101
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Posted - 2004.12.06 03:04:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Clay101 on 06/12/2004 03:09:29
Originally by: Ardor
Originally by: DarkMatters
A second thing is that devs are thinking about different amount of damage against differend sized ships so that a torpedo wouldnt do that huge anount of damage against a frig.
that is so stupid in my opinion - wats the point of having a few cruise on board to get rid of frigs if you can't blow them up in 2/3 missiles? ... hey this is coming from a Moa soon to be Cormorant pilot (i also like the Tristan - Kestrel - and Rifter)
i do not want to get hit by 8 million cruise missiles and then die - nor do i want to be in my scorp and have to wait 2 hours to kill a frig.
if they are going to change how hard the missiles hit different sized/classed targets why not make turrets do the same - talk about balancing - THIS IS T3H UB3R GH3Y - leave it the way it is - it's fine - just fix the way they travel to the target to the way it was before exodus.
ok that's my rant - i'll get back to smacking minmatars whine about the Brutix and Tempest being crap.
EDIT: BLARG
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Clay101
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Posted - 2004.12.06 03:04:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Clay101 on 06/12/2004 03:09:29
Originally by: Ardor
Originally by: DarkMatters
A second thing is that devs are thinking about different amount of damage against differend sized ships so that a torpedo wouldnt do that huge anount of damage against a frig.
that is so stupid in my opinion - wats the point of having a few cruise on board to get rid of frigs if you can't blow them up in 2/3 missiles? ... hey this is coming from a Moa soon to be Cormorant pilot (i also like the Tristan - Kestrel - and Rifter)
i do not want to get hit by 8 million cruise missiles and then die - nor do i want to be in my scorp and have to wait 2 hours to kill a frig.
if they are going to change how hard the missiles hit different sized/classed targets why not make turrets do the same - talk about balancing - THIS IS T3H UB3R GH3Y - leave it the way it is - it's fine - just fix the way they travel to the target to the way it was before exodus.
ok that's my rant - i'll get back to smacking minmatars whine about the Brutix and Tempest being crap.
EDIT: BLARG
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Proconsul Hathor
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Posted - 2004.12.06 03:24:00 -
[39]
Hey, could have been what I had yesterday... flying my Itty5, a Kestrel comes up, warp scrambles, and demands 10M for the priviledge of not having my ship shot out from underneath me. Wait until he's about 3k out, and open fire on his sorry butt. Sigh... if only I had a blaster+AM loaded instead of the gatling rail+lead. I'd have finished that n00b off instead of him escaping with maybe 5HP left.
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Proconsul Hathor
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Posted - 2004.12.06 03:24:00 -
[40]
Hey, could have been what I had yesterday... flying my Itty5, a Kestrel comes up, warp scrambles, and demands 10M for the priviledge of not having my ship shot out from underneath me. Wait until he's about 3k out, and open fire on his sorry butt. Sigh... if only I had a blaster+AM loaded instead of the gatling rail+lead. I'd have finished that n00b off instead of him escaping with maybe 5HP left.
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Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2004.12.06 04:36:00 -
[41]
Quote:
A second thing is that devs are thinking about different amount of damage against differend sized ships so that a torpedo wouldnt do that huge anount of damage against a frig. Missiles will not stay the way they are now.
Yeah they said this a WHILE back, like months upon months ago when TomB asked for suggestions on missiles.
It would make sense that signature radius of the target should be taken into account by the missile in calculating damage, since missiles automatically hit. Turrets take into account the targets sig radius when calculating tracking, the least missiles could do would be to take it into account while calculating damage.
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Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2004.12.06 04:36:00 -
[42]
Quote:
A second thing is that devs are thinking about different amount of damage against differend sized ships so that a torpedo wouldnt do that huge anount of damage against a frig. Missiles will not stay the way they are now.
Yeah they said this a WHILE back, like months upon months ago when TomB asked for suggestions on missiles.
It would make sense that signature radius of the target should be taken into account by the missile in calculating damage, since missiles automatically hit. Turrets take into account the targets sig radius when calculating tracking, the least missiles could do would be to take it into account while calculating damage.
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DarkMatters
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Posted - 2004.12.06 08:34:00 -
[43]
Edited by: DarkMatters on 06/12/2004 08:38:58
arggg the flames,
have a ever fought someone ? yes i do it every night, that little vengance in questions has taken a good number of crusers down solo.
riding a bike towards a tank? nope not at all, a tank has a Turret and i know my Apocs turrets dont stand a hope in hell of hitting a frig. so you agree missiles should be changed then?
get a decent mix of ships, and read devblogs? i read them all and i fight with whats available.
want your tips? erm no
want some poeple to post constructivly insted of flaming? yes
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DarkMatters
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Posted - 2004.12.06 08:34:00 -
[44]
Edited by: DarkMatters on 06/12/2004 08:38:58
arggg the flames,
have a ever fought someone ? yes i do it every night, that little vengance in questions has taken a good number of crusers down solo.
riding a bike towards a tank? nope not at all, a tank has a Turret and i know my Apocs turrets dont stand a hope in hell of hitting a frig. so you agree missiles should be changed then?
get a decent mix of ships, and read devblogs? i read them all and i fight with whats available.
want your tips? erm no
want some poeple to post constructivly insted of flaming? yes
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Pandora Panda
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Posted - 2004.12.06 08:39:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Clay101
if they are going to change how hard the missiles hit different sized/classed targets why not make turrets do the same - talk about balancing - THIS IS T3H UB3R GH3Y - leave it the way it is - it's fine - just fix the way they travel to the target to the way it was before exodus.
They already did. Six months ago. The problem with missiles is that turrets were balanced against smaller ships and missiles were not.
Whats the point of having cruise missiles on hand? I dunno, whats the point of having anything but cruise missiles? They are better in every respect then smaller missiles. Damage, speed, and hitting fast moving targets. Show me a large turret that's better in every respect then a medium one, please. I dare you.
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CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Pandora Panda
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Posted - 2004.12.06 08:39:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Clay101
if they are going to change how hard the missiles hit different sized/classed targets why not make turrets do the same - talk about balancing - THIS IS T3H UB3R GH3Y - leave it the way it is - it's fine - just fix the way they travel to the target to the way it was before exodus.
They already did. Six months ago. The problem with missiles is that turrets were balanced against smaller ships and missiles were not.
Whats the point of having cruise missiles on hand? I dunno, whats the point of having anything but cruise missiles? They are better in every respect then smaller missiles. Damage, speed, and hitting fast moving targets. Show me a large turret that's better in every respect then a medium one, please. I dare you.
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CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Calsak
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Posted - 2004.12.06 11:18:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Calsak on 06/12/2004 11:27:27
Looking at the ship classes/roles and the equipment available then (IMHO) CCP would like to see more 'fleets', larger, organised groups of ships. Something like 15 ships consisting of 1 BS, 2 Cruisers, 3 Destroyers, 2 Support and some Frigs and Scouts. (Make your own numbers up but you get the concept). Each ship compliments the other, a mixture of long range platforms and skirmish ships, others jamming systems and re-supplying. Like in RL you'd never find an Aircraft Carrier wandering about the briney blue on it's own!
The problem is that everyone wants to be 'Billy Big Boots' and fly the BS and no-one wants to fly the smaller ones. Equally trying to organise people in ANY online game (even something simple like logging on and meeting at a predetermined place) is like herding cats. The 'it's my account and I play what I want, where I want and no-one is going to tell ME what to do' kicks in. If you have a corp with people in who DO co-operate then hats off to you sir/madam (other than 'Lets corp mine and equal split the money' then you're beating them off).
I used to play World War II Online where team work is 90% of the game and you rarely get it, even in 'orgainsed' squads. Tanks driving out when Germans 88's are pounding the road and then the silly sods go get ANOTHER tank and try again and again and again!
UKCorp Website -- Guest Book |
Calsak
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Posted - 2004.12.06 11:18:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Calsak on 06/12/2004 11:27:27
Looking at the ship classes/roles and the equipment available then (IMHO) CCP would like to see more 'fleets', larger, organised groups of ships. Something like 15 ships consisting of 1 BS, 2 Cruisers, 3 Destroyers, 2 Support and some Frigs and Scouts. (Make your own numbers up but you get the concept). Each ship compliments the other, a mixture of long range platforms and skirmish ships, others jamming systems and re-supplying. Like in RL you'd never find an Aircraft Carrier wandering about the briney blue on it's own!
The problem is that everyone wants to be 'Billy Big Boots' and fly the BS and no-one wants to fly the smaller ones. Equally trying to organise people in ANY online game (even something simple like logging on and meeting at a predetermined place) is like herding cats. The 'it's my account and I play what I want, where I want and no-one is going to tell ME what to do' kicks in. If you have a corp with people in who DO co-operate then hats off to you sir/madam (other than 'Lets corp mine and equal split the money' then you're beating them off).
I used to play World War II Online where team work is 90% of the game and you rarely get it, even in 'orgainsed' squads. Tanks driving out when Germans 88's are pounding the road and then the silly sods go get ANOTHER tank and try again and again and again!
UKCorp Website -- Guest Book |
Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2004.12.06 11:52:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Clay101
that is so stupid in my opinion - wats the point of having a few cruise on board to get rid of frigs if you can't blow them up in 2/3 missiles?
Cruise to get rid of Frigs ? And you can't see what the problem is ? Having cruise missile on board to deal with frigs is like me fitting a dual heavy pulse instead of a mega pulse on my geddon to deal with frigs. A lot of changes have been made to break the one size pwns all side of this game, cruise missiles are the one thing left that doesn't follow suit.
With regards to the original post, yes an interceptor may have been a better choice to a vengeance, but that doesn't change the fact that an assault frig is completely useless if it can be targeted by more than one cruise at a time. This may not have been the best example, but it does show the problems.
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2004.12.06 11:52:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Clay101
that is so stupid in my opinion - wats the point of having a few cruise on board to get rid of frigs if you can't blow them up in 2/3 missiles?
Cruise to get rid of Frigs ? And you can't see what the problem is ? Having cruise missile on board to deal with frigs is like me fitting a dual heavy pulse instead of a mega pulse on my geddon to deal with frigs. A lot of changes have been made to break the one size pwns all side of this game, cruise missiles are the one thing left that doesn't follow suit.
With regards to the original post, yes an interceptor may have been a better choice to a vengeance, but that doesn't change the fact that an assault frig is completely useless if it can be targeted by more than one cruise at a time. This may not have been the best example, but it does show the problems.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2004.12.06 11:57:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Toran Mehtar
Originally by: Clay101
that is so stupid in my opinion - wats the point of having a few cruise on board to get rid of frigs if you can't blow them up in 2/3 missiles?
Cruise to get rid of Frigs ? And you can't see what the problem is ? Having cruise missile on board to deal with frigs is like me fitting a dual heavy pulse instead of a mega pulse on my geddon to deal with frigs. A lot of changes have been made to break the one size pwns all side of this game, cruise missiles are the one thing left that doesn't follow suit.
With regards to the original post, yes an interceptor may have been a better choice to a vengeance, but that doesn't change the fact that an assault frig is completely useless if it can be targeted by more than one cruise at a time. This may not have been the best example, but it does show the problems.
Come on I pwn orbiting Intys all the time with my 350mm rail guns. Oh wait no I don't because I cant even hit a moving Inty (or fast frig) thats 30K away. 
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2004.12.06 11:57:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Toran Mehtar
Originally by: Clay101
that is so stupid in my opinion - wats the point of having a few cruise on board to get rid of frigs if you can't blow them up in 2/3 missiles?
Cruise to get rid of Frigs ? And you can't see what the problem is ? Having cruise missile on board to deal with frigs is like me fitting a dual heavy pulse instead of a mega pulse on my geddon to deal with frigs. A lot of changes have been made to break the one size pwns all side of this game, cruise missiles are the one thing left that doesn't follow suit.
With regards to the original post, yes an interceptor may have been a better choice to a vengeance, but that doesn't change the fact that an assault frig is completely useless if it can be targeted by more than one cruise at a time. This may not have been the best example, but it does show the problems.
Come on I pwn orbiting Intys all the time with my 350mm rail guns. Oh wait no I don't because I cant even hit a moving Inty (or fast frig) thats 30K away.
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Stront3h
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Posted - 2004.12.06 14:16:00 -
[53]
Originally by: DarkMatters
Edited by: DarkMatters on 06/12/2004 08:38:58
arggg the flames,
have a ever fought someone ? yes i do it every night, that little vengance in questions has taken a good number of crusers down solo.
riding a bike towards a tank? nope not at all, a tank has a Turret and i know my Apocs turrets dont stand a hope in hell of hitting a frig. so you agree missiles should be changed then?
get a decent mix of ships, and read devblogs? i read them all and i fight with whats available.
want your tips? erm no
want some poeple to post constructivly insted of flaming? yes
So you lost a ship to an imbalance in the game. Do all the Minmatar a favour and get over it.... They've been loosing ships hand over fist due to projectile turrets being utter rubbish and Apoc/Gankageddons being OTT for months. 
G |
Stront3h
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Posted - 2004.12.06 14:16:00 -
[54]
Originally by: DarkMatters
Edited by: DarkMatters on 06/12/2004 08:38:58
arggg the flames,
have a ever fought someone ? yes i do it every night, that little vengance in questions has taken a good number of crusers down solo.
riding a bike towards a tank? nope not at all, a tank has a Turret and i know my Apocs turrets dont stand a hope in hell of hitting a frig. so you agree missiles should be changed then?
get a decent mix of ships, and read devblogs? i read them all and i fight with whats available.
want your tips? erm no
want some poeple to post constructivly insted of flaming? yes
So you lost a ship to an imbalance in the game. Do all the Minmatar a favour and get over it.... They've been loosing ships hand over fist due to projectile turrets being utter rubbish and Apoc/Gankageddons being OTT for months.
G |
Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2004.12.06 14:31:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Stront3h
So you lost a ship to an imbalance in the game. Do all the Minmatar a favour and get over it.... They've been loosing ships hand over fist due to projectile turrets being utter rubbish and Apoc/Gankageddons being OTT for months.
G
Never heard the saying two wrongs don't make a right ?
Oh, and btw, nice work replying like that after quoting somebody asking for constructive feedback instead of flames.
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2004.12.06 14:31:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Stront3h
So you lost a ship to an imbalance in the game. Do all the Minmatar a favour and get over it.... They've been loosing ships hand over fist due to projectile turrets being utter rubbish and Apoc/Gankageddons being OTT for months.
G
Never heard the saying two wrongs don't make a right ?
Oh, and btw, nice work replying like that after quoting somebody asking for constructive feedback instead of flames.
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.12.06 14:45:00 -
[57]
Originally by: KompleX
So what are you saying here? That a Assault Frig + a Heavy Assault Cruiser should be able to take down a BS?
Actually a Heavy Assault Cruiser can do that on it's own... easily.
From what i read a couple of mistakes were made.
Originally by: DarkMatters
as the frigate gets within the last 30km, the typhoon launches 1-2 volleys of cruse and instant ganks the vengeance. A few minutes of fighting with the Cerberus pass and the typhoon runs away with a “hahaha” in local over the frig kill.
1) Using the AF as a tackler. AF role is very defined... speed modules are useless on them and the only propulsion jamming module considered should be a web and that is definately not a must.
2) Losing an unscrambled frig... AF can survive a volley of cruise and warp out before the next one arrives.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.12.06 14:45:00 -
[58]
Originally by: KompleX
So what are you saying here? That a Assault Frig + a Heavy Assault Cruiser should be able to take down a BS?
Actually a Heavy Assault Cruiser can do that on it's own... easily.
From what i read a couple of mistakes were made.
Originally by: DarkMatters
as the frigate gets within the last 30km, the typhoon launches 1-2 volleys of cruse and instant ganks the vengeance. A few minutes of fighting with the Cerberus pass and the typhoon runs away with a “hahaha” in local over the frig kill.
1) Using the AF as a tackler. AF role is very defined... speed modules are useless on them and the only propulsion jamming module considered should be a web and that is definately not a must.
2) Losing an unscrambled frig... AF can survive a volley of cruise and warp out before the next one arrives.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Stront3h
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Posted - 2004.12.06 15:14:00 -
[59]
Quote:
Never heard the saying two wrongs don't make a right ?
Oh, and btw, nice work replying like that after quoting somebody asking for constructive feedback instead of flames.
Ever heard the one 'an eye for an eye' life is full of contradictions like that....
What do you expect, someone uses a ship totaly outside the role it was intended for and then comes here looking for answers/big-group-hug-support.
Well I'm sorry but they've rubbed it in for months about bashing minni ships and now I can't help but laugh at the irony. All the more laughable as the missile change/bug was posted about the day after shiva was deployed, stating that frigs could no longer hope to out-run missiles due to this.
Now tell me why I should offer constructive help, especialy to the mighty PvP corp PIE, due to their own ignorance.....
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Stront3h
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Posted - 2004.12.06 15:14:00 -
[60]
Quote:
Never heard the saying two wrongs don't make a right ?
Oh, and btw, nice work replying like that after quoting somebody asking for constructive feedback instead of flames.
Ever heard the one 'an eye for an eye' life is full of contradictions like that....
What do you expect, someone uses a ship totaly outside the role it was intended for and then comes here looking for answers/big-group-hug-support.
Well I'm sorry but they've rubbed it in for months about bashing minni ships and now I can't help but laugh at the irony. All the more laughable as the missile change/bug was posted about the day after shiva was deployed, stating that frigs could no longer hope to out-run missiles due to this.
Now tell me why I should offer constructive help, especialy to the mighty PvP corp PIE, due to their own ignorance.....
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