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Ruby Udders
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Posted - 2010.05.14 04:56:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Ruby Udders on 14/05/2010 05:00:45
 Originally by: Sasha Krah'n
Originally by: Ruby Udders
Edited by: Ruby Udders on 14/05/2010 03:37:42
Would love to visit your site but am unfortunately allergic to vendor lock-in.
Also:
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie
I prefer open standards myself, inferior as they may be.
This forum itself is developed with Microsoft technology known as Active Server Pages (.asp).
Wiki ASP
Also, this may help you apply vendor lock-in to appropriate scenarios...
Wiki Vendor Lock-In
Now.. I might not be an "expert".. but in this particular case, isn't asp a serverside language? As in, requiring no installation on my PC bar a cookie or two?
And thank you for the links, they were most informative.
PS. Please support open standards. It will make the internet so much easier for all of us. Thanks!
Be safe, be cynical |
Sasha Krah'n
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Posted - 2010.05.14 04:56:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Terro Deagas
Originally by: Sasha Krah'n
Originally by: Ruby Udders
Edited by: Ruby Udders on 14/05/2010 03:37:42
Would love to visit your site but am unfortunately allergic to vendor lock-in.
Also:
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie
I prefer open standards myself, inferior as they may be.
This forum itself is developed with Microsoft technology known as Active Server Pages (.asp).
Wiki ASP
Also, this may help you apply vendor lock-in to appropriate scenarios...
Wiki Vendor Lock-In
And these forums are widely regarded as the poorest ever made
That's really more of a jab at the developer of the forum rather than the technology used, don't you think? Do you not like when you post a comment, it shows up on the page afterward? Is this not to your satisfaction? Apparently I have missed this "widely regarded" opinion poll about the EVE forum code-behind. Maybe you can point me in the direction of these statistics. I'm pretty certain you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a site developed using PHP versus one with ASP.
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Sasha Krah'n
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Posted - 2010.05.14 05:18:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ruby Udders
Originally by: Sasha Krah'n
Originally by: Ruby Udders
Edited by: Ruby Udders on 14/05/2010 03:37:42
Would love to visit your site but am unfortunately allergic to vendor lock-in.
Also:
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie
I prefer open standards myself, inferior as they may be.
This forum itself is developed with Microsoft technology known as Active Server Pages (.asp).
Wiki ASP
Also, this may help you apply vendor lock-in to appropriate scenarios...
Wiki Vendor Lock-In
Now.. I might not be an "expert".. but in this particlar case, isn't asp a serverside language? As in, requiring no installation on my PC bar a cookie or two?
And thank you for the links, they were most informative.
PS. Please support open standards. It will make the internet so much easier for all of us. Thanks!
*sigh* The reference to ASP was to point out the fact that he/she was able to partake in this horribly off-topic discussion through the use of Microsoft technologies. I see you have read the first section of the ASP Wiki and posted a synopsis here. Adobe flash requires installation exactly the same way Silverlight does. Java-based web applications require the Java Runtime Environment to be installed. I'm pretty sure you've used at least of those technologies before.
I'm not against open standards in any way. I just think it to be asinine to blindly reject ANYTHING based on ignorance. It's free, vendor lock-in doesn't even apply, and Moonlight is open source. Why are we still discussing the technology used instead of the actual idea?
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
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Posted - 2010.05.14 15:43:00 -
[34]
Quote:
I'm not against open standards in any way.
Using silverlight and saying asp is good. Yep you are.
Quote:
I just think it to be asinine to blindly reject ANYTHING based on ignorance.
wait a sec... that's exactly what you're doing.
Quote:
It's free, vendor lock-in doesn't even apply, and Moonlight is open source. Why are we still discussing the technology used instead of the actual idea?
Actually being FREE AS IN BEER is entirely possible for vendor lockin. Which is exactly what silverlight/moonlight is.
Furthermore Miguel there from Novell, the guy behind mono and moonlight, openly admits that microsoft is keeping their whole package from .net to silverlight riddled with patents and licenses for the sole reason to lock people into microsoft and have full control over their ventures.
Quote:
Considering EVERYTHING is going to Silverlight faster than any technology ever has moved.
Not really. Flash is still dominant and html5 is the next step. silverlight wont be touched.
Quote:
Silverlight is currently installed on about 60% of all internet connected devices....roughly.
Actually no. The current statistics show silverlight to be about 25%. Only 15% or so version 2. The rest version 1.
That's actual endusers. If you were to add in "all internet connected devices" such as all those cisco and juniper routers... you are probably closer to 1% then. Sorry but you are so wrong it's a joke.
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To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe.
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Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Daemonspirit
Redhawk Tribal Trust
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Posted - 2010.05.14 16:04:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Daemonspirit on 14/05/2010 16:05:15
Originally by: Sasha Krah'n
lol thanks, it hasn't been difficult so far. the posts are mostly quantity rather than quality. :)
I still have a grudge against MS for stealing windows from Apple... Yeah, I'm that old. And yes, these forums stink, but they're what we're stuck with...
ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö |
Analia Hlena
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Posted - 2010.05.14 16:09:00 -
[36]
Don't ya just love when the TROLLS hit the forums. Should we start another thread? Rename this one to 'Which Technology is better?'. It just amazes me how people will take a post and use it to for their own agenda to clog up a thread rather than let those who do find interested in what was initially posted have a say. Pretty sad.. simply put, you don't like the technology, don't participate. You must think we care, but.. we really don't.
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network
Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.14 16:17:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sasha Krah'n
(The website was developed in MS Silverlight, so you will need to install the plugin if you do not have it. It is Microsoft's competitor to Adobe Flash. The reason we chose this platform is its ability to connect directly to a database and its visuals.)
As said before, that is fail. Flash can do pretty amazing stuff too, so I heard.
________________________
Let's build a superpower. |
Steve Celeste
Caldari
Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.05.14 16:37:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Sasha Krah'n
The objective of the season will be to see which team will get the most kills/points versus the designated target corp(s)/alliance(s).
Good, you are it.
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Analia Hlena
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Posted - 2010.05.14 16:39:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Dan O'Connor
Originally by: Sasha Krah'n
(The website was developed in MS Silverlight, so you will need to install the plugin if you do not have it. It is Microsoft's competitor to Adobe Flash. The reason we chose this platform is its ability to connect directly to a database and its visuals.)
As said before, that is fail. Flash can do pretty amazing stuff too, so I heard.
Just fail for you. Last I seen EveMon was the number #1 third party application (along with EFT) used in EVE and it's written in C# under the .net platform (Microsoft Technology if you don't know), so.. tbh, I think the trolls here are doing nothing more than showing the 'race' card soley to gain attention and don't represent much of the EVE community. The whole site is written using WCF services accessing SQLServer, if you want access to the service endpoints to develope your own flash version, just let me know and I will see what can be done. I've done alot of flash and Flex (and still do from time to time) and with Silverlight 4 coming out, the features just don't compare when it comes to what "I" want to do with the web. As far as HTML5 goes, if you count new elements such as audio, video and a 2D canvas to have anything close to what is capable in both flash and silverlight, then you really don't know much about both those technologies. HTML5 might catch up one day, but they are FAR from it.
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network
Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.14 16:43:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Dan O''Connor on 14/05/2010 16:45:16
Originally by: Analia Hlena
Originally by: Dan O'Connor
Originally by: Sasha Krah'n
(The website was developed in MS Silverlight, so you will need to install the plugin if you do not have it. It is Microsoft's competitor to Adobe Flash. The reason we chose this platform is its ability to connect directly to a database and its visuals.)
As said before, that is fail. Flash can do pretty amazing stuff too, so I heard.
Just fail for you. Last I seen EveMon was the number #1 third party application (along with EFT) used in EVE and it's written in C# under the .net platform (Microsoft Technology if you don't know), so.. tbh, I think the trolls here are doing nothing more than showing the 'race' card soley to gain attention and don't represent much of the EVE community. The whole site is written using WCF services accessing SQLServer, if you want access to the service endpoints to develope your own flash version, just let me know and I will see what can be done. I've done alot of flash and Flex (and still do from time to time) and with Silverlight 4 coming out, the features just don't compare when it comes to what "I" want to do with the web. As far as HTML5 goes, if you count new elements such as audio, video and a 2D canvas to have anything close to what is capable in both flash and silverlight, then you really don't know much about both those technologies. HTML5 might catch up one day, but they are FAR from it.
This was also said before: enjoy your beautiful Vendor Lock-In (aka Proprietary Lock-In). 
I don't really care what you've done or not - Silverlight is no Flash, and I'm not going to install it. Might also have to do with the fact that I'm not the greatest Microsoft slave.
NINJA SALVAGE EDIT
And just because I said "fail" does not mean you have to vent your anger at me and others not using Silverlight on me.
________________________
Let's build a superpower. |
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el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.05.14 16:49:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Gundore
bing maps
No.
Originally by: Gundore
Netflix
No.
Originally by: Gundore
Olympics Official streaming site
No.
Originally by: Gundore
ESRI GIS
WTF no.
Originally by: Gundore
Nokia phone
No.
Originally by: Gundore
embedded in your browser
No.
Originally by: Gundore
so your going to get it anyways
No.
Good luck on your league thing.
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.05.14 16:53:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 14/05/2010 16:56:08
Bleh, Nvm.
_____________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout
:facepalm:
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Daemonspirit
Redhawk Tribal Trust
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Posted - 2010.05.14 16:54:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Analia Hlena
Don't ya just love when the TROLLS hit the forums. Should we start another thread? Rename this one to 'Which Technology is better?'. It just amazes me how people will take a post and use it to for their own agenda to clog up a thread rather than let those who do find interested in what was initially posted have a say. Pretty sad.. simply put, you don't like the technology, don't participate. You must think we care, but.. we really don't.
Welcome to the Eve Forums...
ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö |
Killer Gandry
Caldari
TerraNovae
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Posted - 2010.05.14 16:55:00 -
[44]
Get a Chribba endorsement and I might consider.
Till then it's a no for me.
Reasons can be found in several replies before me.
The League concept sounds interesting, but I am one of those very very cautious people when it comes to install plugin's
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yakamuri zelda
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Posted - 2010.05.14 17:11:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Sasha Krah'n
(The website was developed in MS Silverlight, so you will need to install the plugin if you do not have it. It is Microsoft's competitor to Adobe Flash. The reason we chose this platform is its ability to connect directly to a database and its visuals.)
No.
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network
Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.14 17:18:00 -
[46]
Originally by: yakamuri zelda
Originally by: Sasha Krah'n
(The website was developed in MS Silverlight, so you will need to install the plugin if you do not have it. It is Microsoft's competitor to Adobe Flash. The reason we chose this platform is its ability to connect directly to a database and its visuals.)
No.
Originally by: Analia Hlena
Just fail for you.
As we have seen with the screenshot above, I wonder who fails.
________________________
Let's build a superpower. |
arbiter reformed
Minmatar
The Waiting Room.
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Posted - 2010.05.14 17:20:00 -
[47]
Edited by: arbiter reformed on 14/05/2010 17:21:54
jesus, the fail lvl is just too high.
not to mention its a really badly designed website,
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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.14 17:31:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Get a Chribba endorsement and I might consider.
Till then it's a no for me.
Reasons can be found in several replies before me.
The League concept sounds interesting, but I am one of those very very cautious people when it comes to install plugin's
Exactly. Many of us may play computer games, but many of us also no jack shiet when it comes to random named programs, that we have never heard of, and some player, who "we" have no clue who they are, coming onto the forums and saying,
"hey lets have some fun with our new and ingenous game idea that we have for the pilots of EVE. But the stickler is you have no option to participate unless you download (insert random named program here) to participate."
Maybe if you had come in and explained what the program was, how it is not malicious, and let us know who you are, and we may have been less, how can I say it, negative. Considering most of the negative replies were simple nays and not true troll posts I think the whining about our response is unjustified 
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
Ceraci
Superjail
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Posted - 2010.05.14 17:45:00 -
[49]
Quote:
I'll just stop here so that I don't duplicate information that you read on our website.
You cannot expect people to install something they do not currently need just so that they can go to your website and find out if they think your idea is sh*t or not. Technology is irrelevant, you've gathered yourself alot of bad feeling in this thread. Good luck. 
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Paknac Queltel
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2010.05.14 17:59:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Sasha Krah'n
Paknac Queltel:
Silverlight is the perfect technology for this project. This is what we're interested in as leading technology developers and this is what helps us stick to our goals. We're not worried about whether or not you can see the website from your ipad (or in-game). The only thing the site does is keep track of the scoring and displays it for everybody (correction, Silverlight users) along with other league information.
Silverlight is for rich media and stuff. It's basicly Flash for serious business. There is nothing your Silverlight app does that Javascript can't do just as well. You mentioned WCF in this thread. Javascript has no problem calling into WCF Services. If you have to use Microsoft (which, by this point, is pretty much unavoidable), ASP.NET with Ajax is the right tool to use for this. As I said, you're free to use whatever tool you want for your projects. Silverlight's still the wrong tool.
Originally by: Sasha Krah'n
We're wanting input on the actual idea, not the pretty pictures.
The idea itself is fairly interesting. I can tell you right now that I (and judging from this thread, many others) won't partake if I need a Silverlight-enabled browser to check how things are going.
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Paknac Queltel
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Analia Hlena
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Posted - 2010.05.14 18:00:00 -
[51]
"But the stickler is you have no option to participate unless you download (insert random named program here) to participate."
Neither I or Sasha has said this, in fact.. if you read above we mentioned that the site only contains information about the league and shows the leader scoreboard. Most of the site is dedicated to admin functionalities of automating the Killmail API parsing, the team/target entry system, etc. We have even pondered the idea of an ingame browser view of the league status. We gave a synopsis of the direction of the events but directed those to the site if they wanted more information. And, yes.. 'no' is first of all..an attempt to troll. Noone asked anyone directly if they wanted to participate (athough they felt as if they needed to spend the time to say 'no' anyways for whatever reason), but rather if they had interest that ideas and discussion would be heard. A 'No I won't install the plugin to view the site but if you could post more details about the league', would be an acceptable reply to the OP request and not appear as a blantent troll to start an arguement about something completely non-related to the post itself. People who have no interest in something definitly has a problem with moving down to the next thread. Most of the names here you can search and you can see a consistant path in their mentality.
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Bearstronaut
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Posted - 2010.05.14 18:05:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Ceraci
Quote:
I'll just stop here so that I don't duplicate information that you read on our website.
You cannot expect people to install something they do not currently need just so that they can go to your website and find out if they think your idea is sh*t or not. Technology is irrelevant, you've gathered yourself alot of bad feeling in this thread. Good luck.
Well that's just disingenuous. Technology is irrelevant but there are apparently expectations for what should or should not be installed? And better yet, it can cause alot of bad feelings? Sounds like the technology used isn't irrelevant, or else there wouldn't have been a wash of arm-chair developers thread-jacking for the sake of being open source zealots.
And hey, you know how you can see if their idea is shcrap or not? Maybe try writing a post ASKING THEM QUESTIONS ABOUT THE EVENT rather than writing posts saying that their technology choices are bad, mkay?
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Caelum Dominus
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2010.05.14 18:07:00 -
[53]
I can see no reason for choosing Silverlight over HTML for this website.
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Paknac Queltel
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2010.05.14 18:36:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Analia Hlena
Most of the site is dedicated to admin functionalities of automating the Killmail API parsing, the team/target entry system, etc.
Er, yeah, about that... I know this is a demo app and all, but I do hope you'll move admin login verification to the server-side before you deploy something that functions. Silverlight is easily decompiled.
>.>
*Paknac jiggles the e's in the app's logo again to look at the admin panel placeholder*
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Paknac Queltel
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Analia Hlena
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Posted - 2010.05.14 18:57:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Paknac Queltel
Originally by: Analia Hlena
Most of the site is dedicated to admin functionalities of automating the Killmail API parsing, the team/target entry system, etc.
Er, yeah, about that... I know this is a demo app and all, but I do hope you'll move admin login verification to the server-side before you deploy something that functions. Silverlight is easily decompiled.
>.>
*Paknac jiggles the e's in the app's logo again to look at the admin panel placeholder*
All Binaries are easily decompiled.. holds true for Flash, Flex.. Silverlight, Java Binaries.. etc And no, admin login verification, which isn't published is not binary encoded in the application. Who the hell does that anyways??
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Paknac Queltel
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2010.05.14 19:20:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Analia Hlena
Originally by: Paknac Queltel
Originally by: Analia Hlena
Most of the site is dedicated to admin functionalities of automating the Killmail API parsing, the team/target entry system, etc.
Er, yeah, about that... I know this is a demo app and all, but I do hope you'll move admin login verification to the server-side before you deploy something that functions. Silverlight is easily decompiled.
>.>
*Paknac jiggles the e's in the app's logo again to look at the admin panel placeholder*
All Binaries are easily decompiled.. holds true for Flash, Flex.. Silverlight, Java Binaries.. etc
You'd be surprised how few developers actually know or realise this. I had to use Reflector to drive this point home to my colleagues.
Originally by: Analia Hlena
And no, admin login verification, which isn't published is not binary encoded in the application. Who the hell does that anyways??
For a second, I was worried you were going to do it, what with the 1-3-2-4 small-E thingy.
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Paknac Queltel
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Analia Hlena
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Posted - 2010.05.14 19:34:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Paknac Queltel
Originally by: Analia Hlena
Originally by: Paknac Queltel
Originally by: Analia Hlena
Most of the site is dedicated to admin functionalities of automating the Killmail API parsing, the team/target entry system, etc.
Er, yeah, about that... I know this is a demo app and all, but I do hope you'll move admin login verification to the server-side before you deploy something that functions. Silverlight is easily decompiled.
>.>
*Paknac jiggles the e's in the app's logo again to look at the admin panel placeholder*
All Binaries are easily decompiled.. holds true for Flash, Flex.. Silverlight, Java Binaries.. etc
You'd be surprised how few developers actually know or realise this. I had to use Reflector to drive this point home to my colleagues.
Originally by: Analia Hlena
And no, admin login verification, which isn't published is not binary encoded in the application. Who the hell does that anyways??
For a second, I was worried you were going to do it, what with the 1-3-2-4 small-E thingy.
lol, naw, that was just a way Sasha came up with to get to the admin panel without putting a ADMIN LOGIN button on the screen. He does most of the client side, me.. the logic, WCF calls and database. I definitly have the boring part. Anyways, I'm at the point of closing this hijacked thread and just let in-game contact proceed. No reason to waist more time on discussing a technology that plays a small part (if any) in the overall concept just to satisfy those that are not comfortable with a plugin from some obscure company such as Microsoft.
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Borun Tal
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.14 20:47:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Terro Deagas
And these forums are widely regarded as the poorest ever made
In the case of these forums, don't blame the underlying technology for ****-poor developing skills. And for those complaining about Silverlight, I daresay most of you don't have a clue what you're talking about. I'm a long time developer (including ASP, & Silverlight since 1.0) and I must say Silverlight is great technology AND stable compared to the morass that is Adobe Flash.
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Ceraci
Superjail
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Posted - 2010.05.14 21:16:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Bearstronaut
Originally by: Ceraci
Quote:
I'll just stop here so that I don't duplicate information that you read on our website.
You cannot expect people to install something they do not currently need just so that they can go to your website and find out if they think your idea is sh*t or not. Technology is irrelevant, you've gathered yourself alot of bad feeling in this thread. Good luck.
Well that's just disingenuous. Technology is irrelevant but there are apparently expectations for what should or should not be installed? And better yet, it can cause alot of bad feelings? Sounds like the technology used isn't irrelevant, or else there wouldn't have been a wash of arm-chair developers thread-jacking for the sake of being open source zealots.
And hey, you know how you can see if their idea is shcrap or not? Maybe try writing a post ASKING THEM QUESTIONS ABOUT THE EVENT rather than writing posts saying that their technology choices are bad, mkay?
Stop talking crap.
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Paknac Queltel
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2010.05.14 21:25:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Borun Tal
Originally by: Terro Deagas
And these forums are widely regarded as the poorest ever made
In the case of these forums, don't blame the underlying technology for ****-poor developing skills. And for those complaining about Silverlight, I daresay most of you don't have a clue what you're talking about. I'm a long time developer (including ASP, & Silverlight since 1.0) and I must say Silverlight is great technology AND stable compared to the morass that is Adobe Flash.
True and true, but as another long time developer (including ASP.Net and Silverlight 2.0+) I must say Silverlight's not the right tool for this job.
But yeah, some people in this thread have a problem with it for the wrong reasons. The vendor lock-in / patent thing is valid though, and makes Moonlight use somewhat unsafe.
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Paknac Queltel
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