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Nilania Telshua
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Posted - 2010.05.21 16:27:00 -
[31]
I would put my money on the drake, it simply has the better chance to outlive the harby and is not as cap challenged.
But one on one situations are just pointless theoretical exercises.
 Originally by: Aerilis
the Harb isn't a spectacularly high-dps ship to start with
Contrary to which T1 non faction and sub battleclass ships ?
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.05.21 16:36:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 21/05/2010 16:36:33
Originally by: Nilania Telshua
I would put my money on the drake, it simply has the better chance to outlive the harby and is not as cap challenged.
But one on one situations are just pointless theoretical exercises.
Yeah, because battlecruisers don't fight other battlecruisers solo like ever.
But w/e, shield harb actually should fight Drakes tbh. In case the Drake forgot Javs, you kill it, in case the Drake takes too long to load javs you go up close with MF after he does and pummel him, and in case the Drake has some ****** fit (common) you kill it. If it's a good fit with a guy who reloads to javs straight away when he sees he's too far from the harb then you bugger off (or screw up and get tackled, but oh well).
Plus shield harb can zoom away if Drake is bait a good part of the time because it's faster and stuff. Same goes for HPL nanomyrm.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Griff McGriffin
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Posted - 2010.05.22 08:52:00 -
[33]
Invulns don't like neuts
Or you could fly a 'Geddon and melt the large signature radius drake with large guns and a heavy neut to turn off the damn invulns...
"Where is your EHP now hahahahah"
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Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.05.22 16:23:00 -
[34]
I would bet on the harby if it has slaves.
If you have a kinetic hardener anti drake it but no slaves then its a toss up. Drake pilots would likely start out with kinetic.
I'm betting that many if not most drake pilots forget the javelin missiles. But check killboards for yourself on this. Even if he has them they probably won't be already loaded. So while you are are hitting him with scorch he may try to catch you instead of loading javelins anyway.
The overall ehp of the drake doesn't tell the whole story when you are using weapons that hit its weakest resists.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.05.22 17:18:00 -
[35]
So harbinger pilot knows he will be fighting drake /kin hardener/, but drake pilot doesnt know he will be fighting harbi /he cant just fit em hardener.../. 
Well, i believe that op asked about standard pvp fits, not lolfits that are fitted to fight 1 type of ship.
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FullNelson Mandella
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Posted - 2010.05.24 00:46:00 -
[36]
Hi there,
There are two basic PvP fitting concepts for the Harb that I've seen used successfully:
1: The "Poor mans' Zealot"
Pulse + nos
2x LSE , scram. MWD
Heat sink, DC. 1 Utility low (ECCM, Tracking comp, PDU)
2x CDFE, EM Resist.
2: Stock harb
Pulse + neut
dissy, web, cap booster, mwd
1600 plate, 2x resists, DC, heat sink
3x Trimarks
Both put out 600-700 dps on a good day (with drones). The PMZ is a bit cheaper and more agile. The stock harb has more EHP and the long point. You can also toss a MAR on the stock fit if you choose. I use the PMZ when working with a dictor, and the Stock fit when working with support fleets.
I really haven't had much success with other concept fits (sniper harb, dps harb, tank harb)
FNM
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Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.05.24 18:23:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Cearain on 24/05/2010 18:25:13
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
So harbinger pilot knows he will be fighting drake /kin hardener/, but drake pilot doesnt know he will be fighting harbi /he cant just fit em hardener.../.
Well, i believe that op asked about standard pvp fits, not lolfits that are fitted to fight 1 type of ship.
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
So harbinger pilot knows he will be fighting drake /kin hardener/, but drake pilot doesnt know he will be fighting harbi /he cant just fit em hardener.../.
Well, i believe that op asked about standard pvp fits, not lolfits that are fitted to fight 1 type of ship.
Sure both could fit for each other. I don't think the op explained if he knew he was going against the drake.
But ok lets assume standard well rounded ship fits:
In the end I think that although the drake is better if you have no implants the harby is better if you have your pick of them. Have the drake pilot put on whatever sort of implants he wants, he will still likely lose to a good slaved harby fit. With 2 1600 plates the harby can do 620 dps (non overheated) with over 100kehp or 545 dps (non overheated) with 126kehp. With a point and web. If you can find a combination of implants that will have a drake compete with that I would be interested.
Slaves are essentially a buff to all armor tanked ships. Since the drake is a shield tanker it misses out on this.
edit: the title actually asks for an anti drake fit.
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Aerilis
Gallente
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.25 01:12:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Aerilis on 25/05/2010 01:16:24
Originally by: Nilania Telshua
Originally by: Aerilis
the Harb isn't a spectacularly high-dps ship to start with
Contrary to which T1 non faction and sub battleclass ships ?
Drones account for more than a third of the DPS of a cookie cutter armor buffer Harbinger. Without them, you're looking at a resounding "meh" of 390 DPS.
The only battlecruisers that do less DPS than a Harb are the supertank ones, ie. Drake Ferox Proph. I'm not saying that Harbs are bad in any way, I think they are perfectly balanced and fine ships. I just think people give them too much credit in the DPS department.
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Tom Peeping
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Posted - 2010.05.25 17:41:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Tom Peeping on 25/05/2010 17:43:35
What the heck are you guys fitting with your 3 to 4 hundred damage without drones?
My harby does 815 with drones, 657 without.
If I overheat, I hit 914 and 755.
ehp is 53,623
No faction of any kind, and no +5 implants with their insane prices, and nothing fancy like slaves. Throwing isk at it just makes it a lot better, largely via more buffer.
I honestly have no idea what some of you are fitting... why don't you go with the harby's strengths? 9 times out of 10 it's better to go with a ships strengths. Don't try to make it a speed demon, don't try to make it an uber tank. This is not where the harby excels.
The Harby excels at laying down damage. That's what you need to fit for. Anyone who doesn't have heatsinks and heavy pulses on their harby, isn't getting as much as they could out of the ship.
The harby is much better at damage. Fit for it's strengths with tank taking a second place (balanced ofc with just enough tank to give you time)
The drake is much better at tanking. Fit for it's strengths, with dps taking second place (balanced ofc with enough dps that you can kill peeps in a reasonable amount of time.)
Honestly, the HAM drake can do enough dps that I'd say the edge goes to the drake in an all level 5 situation. That said, it's going to be close if the harby is putting out 900+ damage. Sure the drake has more ehp, but the harby will have a 50% edge in DPS output. It really depends on how the drake is fit. If it's an uber passive tank, youre not going to do squat, but neither is he.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.05.25 19:11:00 -
[40]
Fyi, hamdrake will have 730 dps /850 overheated/ and drake pilot will use small drones that will eat your hammerheads in short time.
So for 50% dps advantage... btw drake will have around 40k ehp more than your harbi. And 180 passive recharge too.
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Aerilis
Gallente
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.25 20:05:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Aerilis on 25/05/2010 20:14:28
Ofc there are fits that have more tank/gank, I was talking about the cookie cutter harb fit... you know, focused pulses, a 1600 plate, 2 heat sinks, 5 hammerheads...
Though your numbers have gotten my interest, I will definitely look into heavy pulse harbs.
oh, and wtb lugal's drake fit.
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Jodie Amille
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2010.05.25 20:51:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Fyi, hamdrake will have 730 dps /850 overheated/ and drake pilot will use small drones that will eat your hammerheads in short time.
So for 50% dps advantage... btw drake will have around 40k ehp more than your harbi. And 180 passive recharge too.
Faction/officer bcu's on an all level 5 char with all 5% implants is both extremely unlikely and even more impractical.
--------
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Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.05.25 21:10:00 -
[43]
Yeah that sounds like a nice fit lugal has. Unless it is missing a web point or prop mod.
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Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.05.25 21:22:00 -
[44]
I like this drake fit best. It requires a 1% pg implant. It comes close to what lugal is saying. I took it from El'tar. (I may have modified it slightly) He is with Genos Occidere. That corp has allot very good fits.
[Drake, el tar]
Ballistic Control System II
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Shadow Serpentis Stasis Webifier
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Small 'Knave' I Energy Drain
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.05.25 21:24:00 -
[45]
Terror rages, 3bcus, 5% zmm and zme, hobgoblins.
With warriors and 3% implants you still get 690dps /800 overheated/. And 94k ehp is standard for drake with overheated invuls and cdfes.
Fits with 3% pg implant.
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Aerilis
Gallente
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.25 21:45:00 -
[46]
Please don't take implants into consideration when comparing EFT fits. Once you do that, you can start adding fleet bonuses, wormhole effects...
It's just common courtesy to use the same baseline. And when giving overheated numbers, please say clearly those numbers are overheated.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.05.25 22:10:00 -
[47]
I used implants because turret implants were obviously used in post i replied to.
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Red Thought
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Posted - 2010.05.26 00:40:00 -
[48]
lol you guys are funny. if the drake pilot is very good you will lose... no questions asked. That being said most drake pilots suck. So if your harb has a decent fit go for it.
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Aralieus
Amarr
Rising Devils
En Garde
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Posted - 2010.05.26 01:42:00 -
[49]
Slaves/Harb+smart piloting=Win...we still on this
Fortune favors the bold!!! |
Red Thought
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Posted - 2010.05.27 02:04:00 -
[50]
lol Don't think the guy who posted the question is going to fit a slave set.
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Zewron
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.28 07:14:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Red Thought
lol Don't think the guy who posted the question is going to fit a slave set.
Hell no! Nevertheless, great replies. Although if I understand things correctly the best anti-Drake Harb fit seems to be a Geddon...
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Helmh0ltz
Blue is the New Red
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Posted - 2010.05.28 22:27:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Red Thought
lol you guys are funny. if the drake pilot is very good you will lose... no questions asked. That being said most drake pilots suck. So if your harb has a decent fit go for it.
QFT
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