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Zewron
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.17 17:31:00 -
[1]
I mean, does a Harbinger have any chance at all against a Drake, 1v1?
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Raieyon
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Posted - 2010.05.17 17:42:00 -
[2]
Ahhhh the drake. A bad ass ship. Drakes are tough to kill I've seen a lone drake take out 2 BS ravens all by itself. But I'm sure that there is some fit that might be able to take it out. Just not sure of what it is. I can say that I prefer the BC Drake to the BS Raven anyday.
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Arthello
Pilots Of Honour
Aeternus.
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Posted - 2010.05.17 18:17:00 -
[3]
Depends on how they're fitted. A HAM drake 1vs1 is a nasty beast with +100k eft hp and close to 600dps - as I fit it anyway. The only chance a Harbinger would have in this specific case is loading up Scorch and zap him from 20-24km (within disrupting and out of HAM range). If he's HML fitted you switch to faction multi and burn close. It will still be a tough close fight. The Drake is highly underrated in my opinion.
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Aurora IV
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Posted - 2010.05.17 19:01:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Aurora IV on 17/05/2010 19:01:49
With maxed out skills a HAM drake can only shoot to 20km, so stay at 20.1k and take 0 damage? Obviously easier said than done, it not like the drake is just gonna sit there and let you kite him, but it is possible to do. If his range skills are poor it gets a lot easier. But if they are super-pro and carry javs, just run away.
Screw fighting HML drakes, your just gonna die since their ehp is so massive. I recommend running from them.
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Zewron
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.17 19:12:00 -
[5]
Thanks for the feedback, it seems I have little room to work...
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Amir Baki
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.17 20:11:00 -
[6]
it is very possible to beat a drake with a binger, ive done it a few times, again its not easy, but it can be done with this fit ... it all depends on how well the pilot in the drake is skilled... needs 3% cpu implant, or downgrade the rep to meta 4 and it should fit with max fitting skills, also if you know the drake will shoot kinetic only, replace EANM with a kinetic hardener, has about the same EHP as most ham drakes (70k) and does 610 dps, can easily be done
[Harbinger, rep + plate]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
[empty high slot]
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Vespa II x5
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Unctom
Minmatar
Nomadic Wayfarer Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.17 20:16:00 -
[7]
5 medium ECM drones might work if he has no FoF ammo or skills(I only rarely bring fof and I neglect maxing that skill). Its like 7.89% chance per drone to jam so around 34% chance of jamming every 20 secs(does my probability math suck?)
Specifically fitting a kinetic hardener would help greatly if he has no explosive missiles.
And yeah kiting at 20km would work if he has no javelin assault ammo. |
Amir Baki
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.17 20:22:00 -
[8]
thats my standard harbinger fit, ecm drones do work, but i usually carry vespas because its extremely easy to tank a harbinger, its always em/th so a little bit of kinetic damage really helps, and its not much dps loss over hammerheads which are thermal
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Rath Kelbore
The Six-Pack Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.17 21:45:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Aurora IV
Edited by: Aurora IV on 17/05/2010 19:01:49
With maxed out skills a HAM drake can only shoot to 20km, so stay at 20.1k and take 0 damage? Obviously easier said than done, it not like the drake is just gonna sit there and let you kite him, but it is possible to do. If his range skills are poor it gets a lot easier. But if they are super-pro and carry javs, just run away.
Screw fighting HML drakes, your just gonna die since their ehp is so massive. I recommend running from them.
That tactic works pretty well for the HAM drakes, don't forget about jav missiles though. Make sure you have a mwd on your ship, once the drake switches to javelin's your ship will be faster and you can at least run away.
If the HML drake is buffer fit and you can keep him in your range, you should win. Unless of course there's a big sp difference or whatever.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.05.17 23:09:00 -
[10]
You don't actually need to be outside 20km against HAMs as long as you keep moving .. missiles will lose a couple of km off the maximum range .. 18km+ should suffice in most circumstances.
Use a kinetic hardener if you know you are going against a Drake. By the time he realises and gets ammo swapped (loosing the damage bonus to boot) he'll be close to peak shields.
Consider using EC-600's. A single successful cycle means you sustain 10k less damage which is a lot when you have 50-60k total.
Note: If you know then he probably knows so be prepared to run for the hills if damage indicates he has an EM hardener .. Ferox/Drake can last for what seems forever against Scorch with one of those buggers (I blame shield recharge!!!) 
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Alsyth
Night Warder
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Posted - 2010.05.17 23:50:00 -
[11]
If he's good and he knows he's going to fight an harbinger, I'd say ECM med drones are your best bet.
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Aralieus
Amarr
Rising Devils
En Garde
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Posted - 2010.05.18 01:35:00 -
[12]
Orbit at full speed at whatever range your dealing with. This will reduce his missle damage due to how missles work hitting moving targets.
[Harbinger, GRRR]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Warp Scrambler II
ECM Burst II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
10MN Afterburner II
Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Hammerhead II x5
Use whatever e-war/drones you wish, Infiltrator II's might be a viable option in this case..or ECM-600's
Fortune favors the bold!!! |
Aerilis
Gallente
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.18 01:35:00 -
[13]
ECM Vespa's will die to his Warriors. If anything I'd use 10x Hornet ECMs, about a third less jam chance but if he tries to kill them you can spit out more. But personally I'd just stick with Hammerheads, the Harb isn't a spectacularly high-dps ship to start with.
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Pharos Pharos
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Posted - 2010.05.18 01:54:00 -
[14]
The problem with all the armor tanking fits is that in my experience a smart drake pilot won't close to within web range of a harbinger or other potentially close-range bc. With the harby beign armor fit the drake is fast enough to kite you at 15-24k inside the range of his missiles and outside web range, where he can disengage at will with superior speed and you're probably using a lower damage ammo. Some HAM drake pilots just like to MWD right in and you might have better chances with them, but otherwise it seems like a draw or a loss fighting a Drake in an armor tanked harby. Individual pilot skill/overheating providing obvious exceptions.
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Zewron
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.18 06:46:00 -
[15]
Good stuff, thanks guys.
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Kaileen Starsong
Amarr
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.18 08:55:00 -
[16]
Shieldgank Harb would be your best bet against HAM setup, worst case you will just disengage(ok, worst case is you do something wrong and he scrambles you  ). Vs HML you'd have no issues in armour-tanked config most of the time.
Now if you run into maxed out guy with 2x5% hardwires, 5% shield one, etc - you'd most likely get toasted, unless you run with HG slaves.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.05.18 11:28:00 -
[17]
Yes, its easy, just stay out of ham range... only that drake is faster than your trimarked harbi and more agile too.
Btw - if we are talking about max skilled and properly fitted hamdrake and harbi, my money are on drake /if harbi isnt slaved/.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.05.18 12:38:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 18/05/2010 12:40:33
Assuming good fits and good skills, it's really, really hard for the Harbinger.
In a simplistic DPS-vs.-EHP comparison, the Harbinger needs slaves to have a chance of outlasting a HAM Drake. If its a HM Drake, then it favours the Harbinger. However, a trimarked, plated Harbinger is an horrific brick and the Drake will easily be able to stay out of MF optimal, and Scorch does a lot less DPS. And HM Drakes often fit a TD, which will utterly ruin you.
ECM drones will be rapidly killed by drones/missiles, I wouldn't rely on them. Shield Harb has the mobility advantage, but will run out of cap before the Drake.
Using an AB will mitigate some HM/HAM damage - as long as you aren't webbed. All HAM Drakes fit a web, and many HM Drakes do so also. So either you get webbed and gain no advantage from the AB, or the Drake kites you with MWD, forcing you to use Scorch.
All this assumes good skills and fits. If the Drake is some hilarious lolfit then you can quite easily kick its face off.
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Rogue Steel
Order of the Chaotic
Sewn Together Wrong
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Posted - 2010.05.19 02:56:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Zewron
I mean, does a Harbinger have any chance at all against a Drake, 1v1?
Yus. Fit moar heat sinks! |
Iteken Hotori
Minmatar
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.20 10:27:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Iteken Hotori on 20/05/2010 10:27:48
Originally by: Rogue Steel
Originally by: Zewron
I mean, does a Harbinger have any chance at all against a Drake, 1v1?
Yus. Fit moar heat sinks!
This! personally i prefer to use 800mm and fit bigger f**king guns too.
[Harbinger, CR Armour sux]
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Co-Processor II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Disruptor II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
[empty high slot]
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Vespa EC-600 x5
Booster is just there to keep your stuff running under neuting. Get close, get the drones on him and burn him down.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.05.20 10:43:00 -
[21]
Coprocessor lol...
[Harbinger, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Use kza2000 implant, if you have akemon in 10th slot /or want to use disruptor/ just downgrade eanm to ctype anp. With some modifications you can use 2x hs and 2x eanm combo /to get more from your hg slaves.../.
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Iteken Hotori
Minmatar
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.20 10:55:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Iteken Hotori on 20/05/2010 11:01:21
Edited by: Iteken Hotori on 20/05/2010 10:58:42
Edited by: Iteken Hotori on 20/05/2010 10:56:42
Mixed guns, downgraded tackleand specific implants... are you even remotely serious?
The co-processor removes the need for a CPU implant, which you can't fit if you are using slaves..... or the KZA which you can't fit if you are running a Armour Mindlink. (i usually have the latter)
I see no difference between using a single fitting mod, be it a RCU, PDS or Co-Pro and using an implant.
But then again, I fly ships IRL not just in EFT.
Ninja-Edit regarding teh webbing, scramming HAM drake, i can't see a way to get more than abotu 70k EHP out of one, and they do 300DPS, vs a well fit, or even ****fit(see above)'s 550-600. Then again i'm close to be max BC Skilled. Shoudldn't be too much of a problem. Maybe your skills are lower than the Drake's. Amarr BC have quite a high entry requirement, where as youc an pvp in a drake in about 3 weeks form launch :)
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.05.20 11:00:00 -
[23]
Heh, if you were only half competent you would split your guns to 2-3 stacks for better heat management... but you are not. You also fail at eft.
If you seriously think, that fit you posted is any good, you should stop posting.
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Iteken Hotori
Minmatar
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.20 11:07:00 -
[24]
Yessir.
*stops posting*
I forgot how well you need to fit ships in FW.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.05.20 11:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Iteken Hotori
Yessir.
*stops posting*
Good decision, less failfits from you.
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Aralieus
Amarr
Rising Devils
En Garde
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Posted - 2010.05.20 18:04:00 -
[26]
Both of your fits suck lol, its like watching a blind kid beat up a we-todd. You for putting on a Co-proceesor and you for mixing guns, but whatever, keep poasting and sh!t fitting your ships, easier for me to pop 
Fortune favors the bold!!! |
Khors
Amtek Inc
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Posted - 2010.05.20 18:49:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Khors on 20/05/2010 18:49:27
How are you supposed to kite a drake if you are slower?
Go shield setup with heavy pulses on the harb.
Also, pray for no javelins.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.05.21 00:03:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Lugalzagezi666 on 21/05/2010 00:05:53
Originally by: Aralieus
...
You are incompetent, but at least you didnt post any lolfit like that guy with coprocessor...
E: Well, now i see you actually posted here your lolfit... With ab and ecm burst...
Originally by: Khors
...
Saying "pray for no javelins" is same as "pray for no scorch" on harbi lol.
But it was said - in shield harbi you got possibility to disengage if things arent going well. And they most likely wont go well, because even if drake is limited to javelins, it will still have big ehp advantage over shield harbi.
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oldmanst4r
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.21 12:52:00 -
[29]
Anyone with a reasonable amount of experience knows that a drake will kick a harby's ass all things equal. So I would try not to get into 1v1s with drakes, k?
Originally by: CCP Shadow
*snip* Castration successful. Shadow.
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Khors
Amtek Inc
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Posted - 2010.05.21 15:47:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: Khors
...
Saying "pray for no javelins" is same as "pray for no scorch" on harbi lol.
Not really, cause you really want t2 lasers for the scorch, while t2 hams is mainly for the better damage rather than javlins, so there's an okay chance that the pilot forgot or didn't bring enough javelins.
But yeah, the speed advantage with a shield fit is that you can run away when everything goes crap.
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