| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Etoile Chercheur
   |
Posted - 2004.12.10 10:36:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Oh and to the miners complaining about wasted cycles:
Stop acting as if every belt in the game has only 1 roid.
Just lock one roid per laser, stay out of belts packed with babyroids and you'll minimize ore/time waste. No need to get all scientific over this.
serious miners don't mine in mined out belts anyway, but there has been a problem with wasted cycles from not knowing just how much is in each roid. sometimes you get a decent load from a laser, but many times you'll get a fraction of a full load, but have wasted most of your mining cycle mining empty space. my system was an attempt to help with that problem.
there's nothing wrong with trying to excercise ingenuity to decrease losses as much as possible. getting "scientific" about it is exactly what the Devs do when they make this game. why should it be surprising that some players do this as well?
Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) | Hadean Drive Yards
|
Etoile Chercheur
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 10:36:00 -
[92]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Oh and to the miners complaining about wasted cycles:
Stop acting as if every belt in the game has only 1 roid.
Just lock one roid per laser, stay out of belts packed with babyroids and you'll minimize ore/time waste. No need to get all scientific over this.
serious miners don't mine in mined out belts anyway, but there has been a problem with wasted cycles from not knowing just how much is in each roid. sometimes you get a decent load from a laser, but many times you'll get a fraction of a full load, but have wasted most of your mining cycle mining empty space. my system was an attempt to help with that problem.
there's nothing wrong with trying to excercise ingenuity to decrease losses as much as possible. getting "scientific" about it is exactly what the Devs do when they make this game. why should it be surprising that some players do this as well?
Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) | Hadean Drive Yards
|
Sister Immacolata
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 11:00:00 -
[93]
Well a compromise could be reached surely. With a miner 2 you lose up to a minute, but you can spread out your "risk" on many roids with your up to 8 mining lasers. With Strip Miners its three fold, and you cannot spread out you bets.
CCP could either make roids pop the second they are empty or allow players to scan better (15-25 km range for scanners). Or make a skill for mining laser control that makes you able to disengage lasers once a certain roid is empty of minerals but hasnt popped yet. Lots of small changes could make it more fun. Its not as if mining is gaming history's most entertaining invention ever already. Why make it extra bothersome by punishing Strip miner users?
. . . Awaiting more and hi-bit rate music - with bated breath ... |
Sister Immacolata
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 11:00:00 -
[94]
Well a compromise could be reached surely. With a miner 2 you lose up to a minute, but you can spread out your "risk" on many roids with your up to 8 mining lasers. With Strip Miners its three fold, and you cannot spread out you bets.
CCP could either make roids pop the second they are empty or allow players to scan better (15-25 km range for scanners). Or make a skill for mining laser control that makes you able to disengage lasers once a certain roid is empty of minerals but hasnt popped yet. Lots of small changes could make it more fun. Its not as if mining is gaming history's most entertaining invention ever already. Why make it extra bothersome by punishing Strip miner users?
. . . Awaiting more and hi-bit rate music - with bated breath ... |
Def Antares
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 11:13:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Etoile Chercheur
Edited by: Etoile Chercheur on 10/12/2004 09:54:15
Originally by: Def Antares
if you wait to activate the 2nd and the 3rd laser your time is wasted too
thought of that already. if you look again, you'll see all three are activated at once, and the 2nd and 3rd lasers are merely REstarted at the one minute and two minute markers of the first cycle. they run for the whole time. the only wasted minutes are at the end. by cutting them off so neither runs a full cycle and the one that does gets 2/3+ of a load of ore, you save laser time and can move on to the next quicker than you would otherwise.
However. I already spent some Skillpoints into the use of Mining Barges, and honestly I was planning to go to level V. Since this is all new and shiny, and a goodie for miners I expect a system as simple as this to work honestly. I don't want to make any stupid calculations when mining, nor do I want any micromanagement og my mining lasers. I only want it to work. And I don't understand why CCP couldn't care less about it, since they just implemented it's obviously something the devs have overseen. Just increasing the scanner range is so cheap, and it's rolling all the work upon the players again. CPP, please just make the strip miner cylces shorter. Or explain (and I mean CPP, not any estimations of players here) why they need to be 180 seconds, so I can understand it. Thx.
|
Def Antares
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 11:13:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Etoile Chercheur
Edited by: Etoile Chercheur on 10/12/2004 09:54:15
Originally by: Def Antares
if you wait to activate the 2nd and the 3rd laser your time is wasted too
thought of that already. if you look again, you'll see all three are activated at once, and the 2nd and 3rd lasers are merely REstarted at the one minute and two minute markers of the first cycle. they run for the whole time. the only wasted minutes are at the end. by cutting them off so neither runs a full cycle and the one that does gets 2/3+ of a load of ore, you save laser time and can move on to the next quicker than you would otherwise.
However. I already spent some Skillpoints into the use of Mining Barges, and honestly I was planning to go to level V. Since this is all new and shiny, and a goodie for miners I expect a system as simple as this to work honestly. I don't want to make any stupid calculations when mining, nor do I want any micromanagement og my mining lasers. I only want it to work. And I don't understand why CCP couldn't care less about it, since they just implemented it's obviously something the devs have overseen. Just increasing the scanner range is so cheap, and it's rolling all the work upon the players again. CPP, please just make the strip miner cylces shorter. Or explain (and I mean CPP, not any estimations of players here) why they need to be 180 seconds, so I can understand it. Thx.
|
Sister Immacolata
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 11:33:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Def Antares
CPP, please just make the strip miner cylces shorter. Or explain (and I mean CPP, not any estimations of players here) why they need to be 180 seconds, so I can understand it. Thx.
Hear, hear. Make bloody sense of this, please. No wait, just do a sanity check on it and bring it back down to earth. The old "60 seconds of mining a 1 m3 ore roid for nothing" was a tad of a sloppy oversight. The new augmented and much improved "mine 180 seconds on a 1 m3 roid for nothing"-situation is a blunderer and should be a really good reason to fix that poor design of the mining mechanics in the first place. Simplest fix: Make the miners stop mining once the roid is empty instead of this 180 second cycle balooney.
. . . Awaiting more and hi-bit rate music - with bated breath ... |
Sister Immacolata
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 11:33:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Def Antares
CPP, please just make the strip miner cylces shorter. Or explain (and I mean CPP, not any estimations of players here) why they need to be 180 seconds, so I can understand it. Thx.
Hear, hear. Make bloody sense of this, please. No wait, just do a sanity check on it and bring it back down to earth. The old "60 seconds of mining a 1 m3 ore roid for nothing" was a tad of a sloppy oversight. The new augmented and much improved "mine 180 seconds on a 1 m3 roid for nothing"-situation is a blunderer and should be a really good reason to fix that poor design of the mining mechanics in the first place. Simplest fix: Make the miners stop mining once the roid is empty instead of this 180 second cycle balooney.
. . . Awaiting more and hi-bit rate music - with bated breath ... |
Fraya
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:04:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Sister Immacolata
Originally by: Def Antares
CPP, please just make the strip miner cylces shorter. Or explain (and I mean CPP, not any estimations of players here) why they need to be 180 seconds, so I can understand it. Thx.
Hear, hear. Make bloody sense of this, please. No wait, just do a sanity check on it and bring it back down to earth. The old "60 seconds of mining a 1 m3 ore roid for nothing" was a tad of a sloppy oversight. The new augmented and much improved "mine 180 seconds on a 1 m3 roid for nothing"-situation is a blunderer and should be a really good reason to fix that poor design of the mining mechanics in the first place. Simplest fix: Make the miners stop mining once the roid is empty instead of this 180 second cycle balooney.
No kidding.. if missle launchers and weapon turrets all kept firing for 180 seconds after the target was destroyed but you didnt have a way of knowing because the game didnt show you the ships stats you can bet it would be fixed in an emergency patch within hours.
But since its only miners that are inconvenienced they dont think its a big deal.
-----------------------
|
Fraya
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:04:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Sister Immacolata
Originally by: Def Antares
CPP, please just make the strip miner cylces shorter. Or explain (and I mean CPP, not any estimations of players here) why they need to be 180 seconds, so I can understand it. Thx.
Hear, hear. Make bloody sense of this, please. No wait, just do a sanity check on it and bring it back down to earth. The old "60 seconds of mining a 1 m3 ore roid for nothing" was a tad of a sloppy oversight. The new augmented and much improved "mine 180 seconds on a 1 m3 roid for nothing"-situation is a blunderer and should be a really good reason to fix that poor design of the mining mechanics in the first place. Simplest fix: Make the miners stop mining once the roid is empty instead of this 180 second cycle balooney.
No kidding.. if missle launchers and weapon turrets all kept firing for 180 seconds after the target was destroyed but you didnt have a way of knowing because the game didnt show you the ships stats you can bet it would be fixed in an emergency patch within hours.
But since its only miners that are inconvenienced they dont think its a big deal.
-----------------------
|
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:13:00 -
[101]
Fix your sig.
Besides, your statement is not true.
Missiles keep firing long after enough to kill the target have been launched.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:13:00 -
[102]
Fix your sig.
Besides, your statement is not true.
Missiles keep firing long after enough to kill the target have been launched.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Fraya
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:27:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Fraya on 10/12/2004 20:31:44
Thats not the same.
Imagine you cant see the shields armor and hull of your target unless you are within 1k of your target and use a special scanner that only has that range.
Now imagine it only updates your target every 180 seconds and you cant tell what kind of ship it is.. it could be a frig or it could be a BS.
So your firing at it, after one cycle it has 1 hull point left, so your still firing all your weapons and shooting more missles (because it could be a Raven for all you know). The ship was destroyed 179 seconds ago but for 3 minutes it doesnt let you know and so all you can do is keep firing.
Sounds like a problem, right?
At least with combat you can tell if its a frig it should only take x number of missles, you fire that many, finish it off with your other guns and all is well. |
Fraya
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:27:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Fraya on 10/12/2004 20:31:44
Thats not the same.
Imagine you cant see the shields armor and hull of your target unless you are within 1k of your target and use a special scanner that only has that range.
Now imagine it only updates your target every 180 seconds and you cant tell what kind of ship it is.. it could be a frig or it could be a BS.
So your firing at it, after one cycle it has 1 hull point left, so your still firing all your weapons and shooting more missles (because it could be a Raven for all you know). The ship was destroyed 179 seconds ago but for 3 minutes it doesnt let you know and so all you can do is keep firing.
Sounds like a problem, right?
At least with combat you can tell if its a frig it should only take x number of missles, you fire that many, finish it off with your other guns and all is well. |
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:29:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Fraya
Thats not the same.
Imagine you cant see the shields armor and hull of your target unless you are within 1k of your target and use a special scanner that only has that range.
Now imagine it only updates your target every 180 seconds and you cant tell what kind of ship it is.. it could be a frig or it could be a BS.
So your firing at it, after one cycle it has 1 hull point left, so your still firing all your weapons and shooting more missles (because it could be a Raven for all you know). The ship was destroyed 179 seconds ago but for 3 minutes it doesnt let you know and so all you can do is keep firing.
Sounds like a problem, right?
No, it sounds like fleet battles to be honest.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:29:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Fraya
Thats not the same.
Imagine you cant see the shields armor and hull of your target unless you are within 1k of your target and use a special scanner that only has that range.
Now imagine it only updates your target every 180 seconds and you cant tell what kind of ship it is.. it could be a frig or it could be a BS.
So your firing at it, after one cycle it has 1 hull point left, so your still firing all your weapons and shooting more missles (because it could be a Raven for all you know). The ship was destroyed 179 seconds ago but for 3 minutes it doesnt let you know and so all you can do is keep firing.
Sounds like a problem, right?
No, it sounds like fleet battles to be honest.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Fraya
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:31:00 -
[107]
Ok so your wasteful on your ammo on the rare occasion when theres a huge fleet battle your in.
This is ALL THE TIME though
That is the problem. |
Fraya
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:31:00 -
[108]
Ok so your wasteful on your ammo on the rare occasion when theres a huge fleet battle your in.
This is ALL THE TIME though
That is the problem. |
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:35:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Fraya
Ok so your wasteful on your ammo on the rare occasion when theres a huge fleet battle your in.
This is ALL THE TIME though
That is the problem.
Sorry, my reply was flippant.
There are lots of combat modules with similar problems.
Electronic Warfare is a prime example.
You can't stop the modules mid cycle, and worse, improving your skill level makes the cycles LONGER.
That means you can't switch targets when you want, only when the cycle ends.
It has been a problem for ages, it has been known for ages, it hasn't been fixed.
I am confident that the miners problems will take priority - afterall, what's another years waiting for the PvP'rs?
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:35:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Fraya
Ok so your wasteful on your ammo on the rare occasion when theres a huge fleet battle your in.
This is ALL THE TIME though
That is the problem.
Sorry, my reply was flippant.
There are lots of combat modules with similar problems.
Electronic Warfare is a prime example.
You can't stop the modules mid cycle, and worse, improving your skill level makes the cycles LONGER.
That means you can't switch targets when you want, only when the cycle ends.
It has been a problem for ages, it has been known for ages, it hasn't been fixed.
I am confident that the miners problems will take priority - afterall, what's another years waiting for the PvP'rs?
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Fraya
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:40:00 -
[111]
Lets not get into PvPers versus miners. Thats not what this is about.
Yes there are things that need to be fixed with combat. We all know that. I only brought up the comparison in order to explain the magnitude of the problem. Electronic warfare modules not having fast recycle times dont make or break combat, a 3 minute delay in target data updating would.
It is a core bug in the mining system that has been there since day 1 and has yet to be fixed. Worse yet there is no promise it will EVER be fixed. |
Fraya
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:40:00 -
[112]
Lets not get into PvPers versus miners. Thats not what this is about.
Yes there are things that need to be fixed with combat. We all know that. I only brought up the comparison in order to explain the magnitude of the problem. Electronic warfare modules not having fast recycle times dont make or break combat, a 3 minute delay in target data updating would.
It is a core bug in the mining system that has been there since day 1 and has yet to be fixed. Worse yet there is no promise it will EVER be fixed. |
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:44:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Fraya
Lets not get into PvPers versus miners. Thats not what this is about.
You made the comparison ffs, now you see it is incorrect you just want to drop it?
Fine with me, doesn't weaken any of my previous points.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:44:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Fraya
Lets not get into PvPers versus miners. Thats not what this is about.
You made the comparison ffs, now you see it is incorrect you just want to drop it?
Fine with me, doesn't weaken any of my previous points.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Fraya
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:50:00 -
[115]
Have you considered its not an issue of whos bugs get fixed because while this bug doesnt effect PvPers all the bugs that the PvPers have to put up with miners also have to deal with?
Miners get the worst of both worlds. We're on your side wanting fixes to combat but we also have problems with mining that need to be fixed.
Just because this issue isnt important to you please dont try to belittle it. |
Fraya
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:50:00 -
[116]
Have you considered its not an issue of whos bugs get fixed because while this bug doesnt effect PvPers all the bugs that the PvPers have to put up with miners also have to deal with?
Miners get the worst of both worlds. We're on your side wanting fixes to combat but we also have problems with mining that need to be fixed.
Just because this issue isnt important to you please dont try to belittle it. |
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:54:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Fraya
Have you considered its not an issue of whos bugs get fixed because while this bug doesnt effect PvPers all the bugs that the PvPers have to put up with miners also have to deal with?
Miners get the worst of both worlds. We're on your side wanting fixes to combat but we also have problems with mining that need to be fixed.
Just because this issue isnt important to you please dont try to belittle it.
You think no PvP'ers mine?
Oh puh-lease.
Look, miners can scan the roids now so the system isn't totally broken. Sure they would like a mod with a longer range (and hell, why not?).
What bothers me are the people who just come here *****ing about how the system is broken, it isn't. A little effort and they can opperate in a perfectly efficient manner - but no, thats not good enough, they need it on a plate.
Stick ideas in the 'ideas lab' and get on with the game.
Stop throwing back perfectly valid suggestions (like mine  - get it? mine?  ) and just get on with it for now.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 20:54:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Fraya
Have you considered its not an issue of whos bugs get fixed because while this bug doesnt effect PvPers all the bugs that the PvPers have to put up with miners also have to deal with?
Miners get the worst of both worlds. We're on your side wanting fixes to combat but we also have problems with mining that need to be fixed.
Just because this issue isnt important to you please dont try to belittle it.
You think no PvP'ers mine?
Oh puh-lease.
Look, miners can scan the roids now so the system isn't totally broken. Sure they would like a mod with a longer range (and hell, why not?).
What bothers me are the people who just come here *****ing about how the system is broken, it isn't. A little effort and they can opperate in a perfectly efficient manner - but no, thats not good enough, they need it on a plate.
Stick ideas in the 'ideas lab' and get on with the game.
Stop throwing back perfectly valid suggestions (like mine - get it? mine? ) and just get on with it for now.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Fraya
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 21:04:00 -
[119]
Anyways back on topic:
The system already has to calculate how much ore youve mined on the fly so it knows how much to transfer to your cargo hold when you shut off the laser.. how hard could it be to add in there the stipulation that if the amount of ore left equals how much youve mined so far just turn off the dang lasers? |
Fraya
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 21:04:00 -
[120]
Anyways back on topic:
The system already has to calculate how much ore youve mined on the fly so it knows how much to transfer to your cargo hold when you shut off the laser.. how hard could it be to add in there the stipulation that if the amount of ore left equals how much youve mined so far just turn off the dang lasers? |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |