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j0sephine	Posted - 2004.12.09 22:55:00 - [1] For those who are curious, this is what the 'new' stats for the afterburners on test server are at the moment: 1 MN Afterburner I velocity bonus: 105 % (old bonus: 35%) activation cost: 20 energy (old cost: 15) powergrid usage: 10 MW (old usage: 8 MW) 'live' performance on Kestrel: base speed: 337.5 m/sec with one AFB: 587.6 m/sec with two AFB: 1023.2 m/sec with MWD: 1528.7 m/sec with MWD+AFB: 2661.7 m/sec with MWD+2 AFB: 4634.5 m/sec * Microwarpdrive shield penalty is gone. other stats are unchanged * it's still possible to run multiple AFB together * activating MWD with AFB already running is not possible. Launching them in the MWD->AFB order works, the MWD will deactivate on the next cycle, though. stats for other AFB's (just the ones changed): * 10 MN: 105% speed, 80 energy, 50 MW grid * 100 MN: 105% speed, 333.33 energy, 625 MW grid overall, looks interesting....
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.12.09 22:55:00 - [2] For those who are curious, this is what the 'new' stats for the afterburners on test server are at the moment: 1 MN Afterburner I velocity bonus: 105 % (old bonus: 35%) activation cost: 20 energy (old cost: 15) powergrid usage: 10 MW (old usage: 8 MW) 'live' performance on Kestrel: base speed: 337.5 m/sec with one AFB: 587.6 m/sec with two AFB: 1023.2 m/sec with MWD: 1528.7 m/sec with MWD+AFB: 2661.7 m/sec with MWD+2 AFB: 4634.5 m/sec * Microwarpdrive shield penalty is gone. other stats are unchanged * it's still possible to run multiple AFB together * activating MWD with AFB already running is not possible. Launching them in the MWD->AFB order works, the MWD will deactivate on the next cycle, though. stats for other AFB's (just the ones changed): * 10 MN: 105% speed, 80 energy, 50 MW grid * 100 MN: 105% speed, 333.33 energy, 625 MW grid overall, looks interesting....
Buraken	Posted - 2004.12.09 22:58:00 - [3] Me likey
Buraken	Posted - 2004.12.09 22:58:00 - [4] Me likey
Kyroki Tirpellan	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:03:00 - [5] ¦Very nice, thanks for the info Peace through love, understanding and superior firepower. Real men structure tank!
Kyroki Tirpellan	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:03:00 - [6] ¦Very nice, thanks for the info Peace through love, understanding and superior firepower. Real men structure tank!
Wraeththu	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:05:00 - [7] Thanks j0. If you get a chance, (or someone else) can you check out the contrast of over-sized ABs on the ships now? even 50mw isn't anything for ship who's weapons don't require any real fiting REQS coughBROKENMISSILEScough -- TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range.
Wraeththu	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:05:00 - [8] Thanks j0. If you get a chance, (or someone else) can you check out the contrast of over-sized ABs on the ships now? even 50mw isn't anything for ship who's weapons don't require any real fiting REQS coughBROKENMISSILEScough -- TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range.
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:13:00 - [9] "Thanks j0. If you get a chance, (or someone else) can you check out the contrast of over-sized ABs on the ships now? even 50mw isn't anything for ship who's weapons don't require any real fiting REQS coughBROKENMISSILEScough " Yeah, just had to make few jumps to get one (hard to buy these things in middle of Curse -.^ Kestrel with one 10MN AFB: 2628.7 m/sec probably tad bit too good, since it's close to 'normal' MWD+AFB combo, you save one slot and don't get the capacitor and signature radius penalty... (although uses twice as much grid, but seeing all these frigates and cruisers flying already with oversized ABs, that's probably not much of obstacle...)
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:13:00 - [10] "Thanks j0. If you get a chance, (or someone else) can you check out the contrast of over-sized ABs on the ships now? even 50mw isn't anything for ship who's weapons don't require any real fiting REQS coughBROKENMISSILEScough " Yeah, just had to make few jumps to get one (hard to buy these things in middle of Curse -.^ Kestrel with one 10MN AFB: 2628.7 m/sec probably tad bit too good, since it's close to 'normal' MWD+AFB combo, you save one slot and don't get the capacitor and signature radius penalty... (although uses twice as much grid, but seeing all these frigates and cruisers flying already with oversized ABs, that's probably not much of obstacle...)
Wraeththu	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:16:00 - [11] Originally by: j0sephine (although uses twice as much grid, but seeing all these frigates and cruisers flying already with oversized ABs, that's probably not much of obstacle...) Well, since it's up to 50MW, that's enough to nudge most people's configs pretty far (aka, robbing another low-slot for a microaux). But in the case of the crow, it's not a major loss. since standard launchers are a whopping 3 grid each, and rocket launchers only take 1 grid. -- TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range.
Wraeththu	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:16:00 - [12] Originally by: j0sephine (although uses twice as much grid, but seeing all these frigates and cruisers flying already with oversized ABs, that's probably not much of obstacle...) Well, since it's up to 50MW, that's enough to nudge most people's configs pretty far (aka, robbing another low-slot for a microaux). But in the case of the crow, it's not a major loss. since standard launchers are a whopping 3 grid each, and rocket launchers only take 1 grid. -- TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range.
StoreSlem	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:37:00 - [13] Oh this is so sweet. Desperately needed, especially for those icky deadspace stuffs.
StoreSlem	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:37:00 - [14] Oh this is so sweet. Desperately needed, especially for those icky deadspace stuffs.
Grimpak	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:42:00 - [15] oh nice. me likes ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
Grimpak	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:42:00 - [16] oh nice. me likes ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:44:00 - [17] just tested it as well... all what has been said so far is right ... point tho is that oversized ABs did get no speed boost penalty but take more grid... but you will have no problem to fit eg. one 100mn AB on a moa which makes as fast as about 2200 m/s while a 10mwd gets you to a top speed of about 1000 m/s. prolly not intended tho... atm you can still fit multiple ABs... which gives the moa a top speed of about 4200 m/s with ONE 10mn AB and ONE 100mn AB with no sig increase which you would get from a mwd =P the real question tho is how benefitting is ONE 100mn AB for a BS, 10mn AB for cruiser and 1mn AB for a frig... my moa has a top speed of 396 m/s with ONE 10mn AB... my dominix had a top speed of 330 m/s with ONE 100mn AB this is in my opinion too low to be of any real useage... even more since the mwd has NO shield penalty anymore... so actually I do fear that even MORE people will fit mwds now especially on BS = very bad change atm the ABs have been trippel in their boost: from 35% to 105% I would multiply it with 5: from 35% to 175% while I would either exactly use 1/3 or 1/5 speed boost for oversized ABs... this would give them exaclty the same amount of speed boost like currently on TQ... which is actually pretty good balanced except for the case of multiple ABs and/or mwds... so 105% would be to low to actually appeal me in any case even more since you can fit only one and even more since the mwd has no more shield penalty... so afterall plz give the ABs a bit more boost and leave the oversized AB boost exactly the same as it is currently on TQ. multiply the AB boost 5x after that I may consider them in some of my setups... conclusion: the +105% speed bonus would be enough IF you would change the mwds agility ... to -500% instead of the sig penalty bonus BUT right now with the mwd love of no more shield penalty and "only" a boost of +105% I considder them useless... YES there a tech 2 versions... but I want my tech 2 version to give me nearly up to 200% boost ... its not about the money its about usefullness!!!! Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:44:00 - [18] just tested it as well... all what has been said so far is right ... point tho is that oversized ABs did get no speed boost penalty but take more grid... but you will have no problem to fit eg. one 100mn AB on a moa which makes as fast as about 2200 m/s while a 10mwd gets you to a top speed of about 1000 m/s. prolly not intended tho... atm you can still fit multiple ABs... which gives the moa a top speed of about 4200 m/s with ONE 10mn AB and ONE 100mn AB with no sig increase which you would get from a mwd =P the real question tho is how benefitting is ONE 100mn AB for a BS, 10mn AB for cruiser and 1mn AB for a frig... my moa has a top speed of 396 m/s with ONE 10mn AB... my dominix had a top speed of 330 m/s with ONE 100mn AB this is in my opinion too low to be of any real useage... even more since the mwd has NO shield penalty anymore... so actually I do fear that even MORE people will fit mwds now especially on BS = very bad change atm the ABs have been trippel in their boost: from 35% to 105% I would multiply it with 5: from 35% to 175% while I would either exactly use 1/3 or 1/5 speed boost for oversized ABs... this would give them exaclty the same amount of speed boost like currently on TQ... which is actually pretty good balanced except for the case of multiple ABs and/or mwds... so 105% would be to low to actually appeal me in any case even more since you can fit only one and even more since the mwd has no more shield penalty... so afterall plz give the ABs a bit more boost and leave the oversized AB boost exactly the same as it is currently on TQ. multiply the AB boost 5x after that I may consider them in some of my setups... conclusion: the +105% speed bonus would be enough IF you would change the mwds agility ... to -500% instead of the sig penalty bonus BUT right now with the mwd love of no more shield penalty and "only" a boost of +105% I considder them useless... YES there a tech 2 versions... but I want my tech 2 version to give me nearly up to 200% boost ... its not about the money its about usefullness!!!! Greetings Grim
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:52:00 - [19] Edited by: j0sephine on 09/12/2004 23:56:08 "the real question tho is how benefitting is ONE 100mn AB for a BS, 10mn AB for cruiser and 1mn AB for a frig..." I think it might make sense to mount double 'normal' ABs rather than just one... it gives nice speed boost (~3x the base speed, will have to test it later) no cap/signature penalties and the fitting/running requirements aren't too high. Also, these results are for Caldari ships which are heavy and don't get much out of the propulsion modules... the Minmatar will probably be even happier with these. ^^;;
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:52:00 - [20] Edited by: j0sephine on 09/12/2004 23:56:08 "the real question tho is how benefitting is ONE 100mn AB for a BS, 10mn AB for cruiser and 1mn AB for a frig..." I think it might make sense to mount double 'normal' ABs rather than just one... it gives nice speed boost (~3x the base speed, will have to test it later) no cap/signature penalties and the fitting/running requirements aren't too high. Also, these results are for Caldari ships which are heavy and don't get much out of the propulsion modules... the Minmatar will probably be even happier with these. ^^;;
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:55:00 - [21] Originally by: j0sephine Edited by: j0sephine on 09/12/2004 23:56:08 "the real question tho is how benefitting is ONE 100mn AB for a BS, 10mn AB for cruiser and 1mn AB for a frig..." I think it might make sense to mount double 'normal' ABs rather than just one... it gives nice speed boost (~3x the base speed, will have to test it later) no cap/signature penalties and the fitting/running requirements aren't too high. Also, these results are for Caldari ships which are heavy and don't get much out of the propulsion modules... the Minmatar will probably be even happier with these. ^^;; well you will NOT be able to fit multiple ABs anymore! you can right now on sisi but this is NOT intended! so you either fit ONE 1mn AB OR ONE 10mn AB or ONE 100mn AB or ONE mwd... Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:55:00 - [22] Originally by: j0sephine Edited by: j0sephine on 09/12/2004 23:56:08 "the real question tho is how benefitting is ONE 100mn AB for a BS, 10mn AB for cruiser and 1mn AB for a frig..." I think it might make sense to mount double 'normal' ABs rather than just one... it gives nice speed boost (~3x the base speed, will have to test it later) no cap/signature penalties and the fitting/running requirements aren't too high. Also, these results are for Caldari ships which are heavy and don't get much out of the propulsion modules... the Minmatar will probably be even happier with these. ^^;; well you will NOT be able to fit multiple ABs anymore! you can right now on sisi but this is NOT intended! so you either fit ONE 1mn AB OR ONE 10mn AB or ONE 100mn AB or ONE mwd... Greetings Grim
pardux	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:59:00 - [23] now i have to put 2 micro aux's on my rifter but it will go fast Fluffy carebear (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
pardux	Posted - 2004.12.09 23:59:00 - [24] now i have to put 2 micro aux's on my rifter but it will go fast Fluffy carebear (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.12.10 00:04:00 - [25] Edited by: j0sephine on 10/12/2004 00:23:09 "well you will NOT be able to fit multiple ABs anymore! you can right now on sisi but this is NOT intended!" Ahh, kk. didn't know if that's unintended or if they simply changed mind on the issue. If it's limited to just one afterburner then aye, the speed increase is a bit small. The AB could use some boost of performance on ship of matching size, and performance reduction if it's mounted on smaller ship.. but think it's not really possible with the current system without some extra code. o.O; edit: currently the AB makes sense when mounted together with the MWD, though... since it basically doubles your speed. so, mounted on Scorpion you get: base speed: 143.75 m/sec with MWD: 893.75 m/sec with MWD+AB: 1873 m/sec a battleship is too sluggish to make use of this extra speed (it doesn't speed up enough before the cycle is over and the MWD deactivates due to AB running) but on a cruiser such extra burst of speed (jump from ~2 km/sec -> 4+ km/sec) can come useful. (then again i don't remember if there isn't plans to get such combos nerfed, too :s
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.12.10 00:04:00 - [26] Edited by: j0sephine on 10/12/2004 00:23:09 "well you will NOT be able to fit multiple ABs anymore! you can right now on sisi but this is NOT intended!" Ahh, kk. didn't know if that's unintended or if they simply changed mind on the issue. If it's limited to just one afterburner then aye, the speed increase is a bit small. The AB could use some boost of performance on ship of matching size, and performance reduction if it's mounted on smaller ship.. but think it's not really possible with the current system without some extra code. o.O; edit: currently the AB makes sense when mounted together with the MWD, though... since it basically doubles your speed. so, mounted on Scorpion you get: base speed: 143.75 m/sec with MWD: 893.75 m/sec with MWD+AB: 1873 m/sec a battleship is too sluggish to make use of this extra speed (it doesn't speed up enough before the cycle is over and the MWD deactivates due to AB running) but on a cruiser such extra burst of speed (jump from ~2 km/sec -> 4+ km/sec) can come useful. (then again i don't remember if there isn't plans to get such combos nerfed, too :s
Wraeththu	Posted - 2004.12.10 00:06:00 - [27] It's all pattycakes to me, as far as I'm concerned. Until the address the circular "short-range people trying to catch long-range people who are trying to stay at range so their tracking doesn't get jacked, who in turn make short-range people have to go faster, who in turn..." issue, it's just a trial in futility. Make 14 billion propulsion upgrades, and a 8 dimensional matrix of interactivity, and it still wouldn't fix the fundamental issue, or the fundamental reason why Missiles rule right now. Thanks again for the time j0! -- TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range.
Wraeththu	Posted - 2004.12.10 00:06:00 - [28] It's all pattycakes to me, as far as I'm concerned. Until the address the circular "short-range people trying to catch long-range people who are trying to stay at range so their tracking doesn't get jacked, who in turn make short-range people have to go faster, who in turn..." issue, it's just a trial in futility. Make 14 billion propulsion upgrades, and a 8 dimensional matrix of interactivity, and it still wouldn't fix the fundamental issue, or the fundamental reason why Missiles rule right now. Thanks again for the time j0! -- TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range.
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.12.10 00:17:00 - [29] Originally by: Wraeththu It's all pattycakes to me, as far as I'm concerned. Until the address the circular "short-range people trying to catch long-range people who are trying to stay at range so their tracking doesn't get jacked, who in turn make short-range people have to go faster, who in turn..." issue, it's just a trial in futility. Make 14 billion propulsion upgrades, and a 8 dimensional matrix of interactivity, and it still wouldn't fix the fundamental issue, or the fundamental reason why Missiles rule right now. Thanks again for the time j0! well very true... therefor I still say: NERF THE ******* MWD... to a point where it will be usefull for short range people but not quite as usefull for long range people... suggestion: INSTEAD of the mwd sig penalty give the mwd an AGILITY penalty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if agility doesnt work do the following: the activation time of the mwd will stay the same: 10 secs but in those 10 secs the first 2 seconds will boost you while the third second will NOT boost you forth and sixed second will boost you again while the seventh second WONT aso... this will be exactly what an agility change will do... try to activate your MWD on your BS and leave it on till you reach top speed... now deactivate it and NOW try to turn the ship around... you will notice that you can NOT turn it around until you are down to your current maximum velocity.... this will mean that you have only limited ability to turn your ship around while your mwd is active... so honestly either change the mwd ... or give normal sized ABs at least a boost of about +200% Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.12.10 00:17:00 - [30] Originally by: Wraeththu It's all pattycakes to me, as far as I'm concerned. Until the address the circular "short-range people trying to catch long-range people who are trying to stay at range so their tracking doesn't get jacked, who in turn make short-range people have to go faster, who in turn..." issue, it's just a trial in futility. Make 14 billion propulsion upgrades, and a 8 dimensional matrix of interactivity, and it still wouldn't fix the fundamental issue, or the fundamental reason why Missiles rule right now. Thanks again for the time j0! well very true... therefor I still say: NERF THE ******* MWD... to a point where it will be usefull for short range people but not quite as usefull for long range people... suggestion: INSTEAD of the mwd sig penalty give the mwd an AGILITY penalty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if agility doesnt work do the following: the activation time of the mwd will stay the same: 10 secs but in those 10 secs the first 2 seconds will boost you while the third second will NOT boost you forth and sixed second will boost you again while the seventh second WONT aso... this will be exactly what an agility change will do... try to activate your MWD on your BS and leave it on till you reach top speed... now deactivate it and NOW try to turn the ship around... you will notice that you can NOT turn it around until you are down to your current maximum velocity.... this will mean that you have only limited ability to turn your ship around while your mwd is active... so honestly either change the mwd ... or give normal sized ABs at least a boost of about +200% Greetings Grim

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