So far if I understood everything all the change does is remove content:

Stealing from a can for whatever reason will be nearly gone. Why? If you steal victim will call whole local for help unless it's stupid, victim will never engage which is the reason to do this(ex no more baiting miners & missioners, it would be suicide without profit).
The second reason is to steal for the items worth which will be much riskier than before because everyone will be able to shoot you(ex. less stealing from suiciders or fights).

Yeah, if one person shoots you, you can shoot back.

If you have a group of 5-10 suspects, and another group of 5-10 vigilantes shoots you, none of your friends can help you out, since you're the only one with aggro.

The difference between corp members and anyone in system is vastly different.

it isn't bad, it is a mechanic that allows someone to attack people taking their stuff, which was implemented as those people losing their stuff wanted it. It's an aggression flag that is neither good nor bad.

GǪit's an aggression flag just like the new one: it's your mechanical punishment for doing an illegal act. It's as good or bad under the new system as under the old one.

How can flipping works now is a simple aggression flag,

I can tell you right now that ninja-looters and mission runner baiters support a system where anyone can shoot them. If stealing something gives them aggro to everyone in the system, that's even better than only getting aggro on a single mission runner. People who are baiting miners and missioners WANT to get aggressed, and I'm sure can handle themselves.

Just more things for them to shoot.

Really? Wow. Imagine that.
How can flipping will work in CW2.0 is a simple aggression flag.

it won't be any more (or less) GÇ£goodGÇ¥ or GÇ£badGÇ¥ than the current aggression flag is. It will still be a criminal act that is being punished. There is no additional GÇ£moralityGÇ¥ compared to the old system since it's the exact same thing: crime GåÆ flag. GÇ£Bad actGÇ¥ GåÆ hunted by GÇ£good guysGÇ¥.

Theft has been a bad thing since roughly forever. That's why it has triggered a criminal flag for an equally long time.

No it hasn't been a bad thing,

it didn't have a flag at first. Only after players complained that people could steal from them and there was nothing they could do that it was implemented.

Ok, so.

Here while we're generally OK with people abusing some of the loopholes in the design and/or UI presentation to use such systems for unintended purposes,.

GǪaside from it triggering a criminal flag, which lets people punish you for your misdeeds. Same as in CW2.0.

Sure. But then the morality you're complaining about was implemented all those years ago GÇö it's not something that is new with CW2.0. The thief is already at a disadvantage, by the way, so that's not a change in GÇ£moralityGÇ¥ either.

It was never bad from the games point of view

I said it was up to the player to decide if that behavior was bad and the aggression flag a way for them to do something about it if they decided to.

GǪaside from it triggering a criminal flagging, just like it will with CW2.0.

GǪjust like it will be with CW2.0.

If it is mechanically GÇ£badGÇ¥ after the change, it was mechanically GÇ£badGÇ¥ in the same way and for the same reasons under the current system.

Crime Watch from my understanding and a few others was to be ONE of the big highlights for Escalation. Big frackin let down.

it isn't at all, it doesn't trigger a criminal flag it triggers an aggression flag.

WeeeellGǪ they gave us some advance warning that it wouldn't be ready at that time.

As for your ideas about RR, the first one will already happen (just like now), and the latter one is a bit OTT GÇö instead, the RR will get a suspect flag and be free-for-all so you (and everyone else) can just blow him up. Also, he won't be able to play docking games.

GǪwhich is a criminal flag. It's not a GCC, but it's still a criminal flag. You're still engaging in an illegal act and you're still being mechanically punished for it by being given that timer. None of that changes with GW2.0. Just like now, in GW2.0, it's up to the players to decide whether they want to do something or not.

There is no change in GÇ£moralityGÇ¥ GÇö it's the same act being treated the same way: a crime being flagged and left to players to deal with.

it does change.... as i've explained.

It remains balanced, as I've explained.

GǪand the GǣmoralityGǥ is no different.

it isn't balanced, and the morality is different as it brings in a CCP judged morality to game play that didn't exist before.

More people (potentially), but less incentive.
More risk for the thief; vastly more risk for the can-flipped.

Seems balanced enough.

And CCP hasn't added or even changed their judgement. The bad act is still bad.

Nope, balanced isn't turning high sec into null for one guy and not the other.

The act isn't bad now, it will be considered so if those changes go through.

Good thing that they're not doing that, then.

It's bad now and will still be be after the change. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Why do you think the act triggers any flags? What do you think the act will do after the change but trigger a flag?

Question:

Since engaging a suspect causes that suspect to be able to engage you in return it would appear that 1 to 1 flagging is still a part of crimewatch 2.0. Is it not possible for logistics and other forms of RR aiding the person attacking the suspect to simply inherit the same personal aggressions the person they are helping has? It seems like it wouldn't over-penalize RR while still leaving room for retaliation without adding something all too different for the aggression mechanics already described.

Or am I misunderstanding how it's intended to work from the start?

They are doing that. read what the suspect flag means and you'll see.

CCP are changing the mechanic of stealing into something that puts anyone who steals into a massively imbalanced situation, and they're saying this is ok as stealing is 'bad'.

Since engaging a suspect causes that suspect to be able to engage you in return it would appear that 1 to 1 flagging is still a part of crimewatch 2.0. Is it not possible for logistics and other forms of RR aiding the person attacking the suspect to simply inherit the same personal aggressions the person they are helping has?

As I understand it there's a technical problem with that... something about tracking who can agress who in more complex scenarios. CCP Greyscale talked about it in another thread. ...can't find link atm

I was there when they first presented it. I know what it means. What it doesn't mean is turning highsec into null.

GǪcompared to the current situation where stealing has a chance of putting the thief in a massively imbalanced situation, and this is ok as stealing is GǣbadGǥ (as shown by the fact that it triggers a criminal timer).

WeeeellGǪ they gave us some advance warning that it wouldn't be ready at that time.

As for your ideas about RR, the first one will already happen (just like now), and the latter one is a bit OTT GÇö instead, the RR will get a suspect flag and be free-for-all so you (and everyone else) can just blow him up. Also, he won't be able to play docking games.

the more i read this and re read CCP Greyscale's comments is just starting to make the head hurt and only drawing the conclusion that CCP has their head up thier ass again.

Crime Watch from my understanding and a few others was to be ONE of the big highlights for Escalation. Big frackin let down.

For the Neut RR crap. just do not let it happen, but at the same time i can see why this would be an issue with the Incursion community.

how about this as for an idea
1> Neut RR reps someone with GCC looses sec rating and concord shows up and pops them
2> Neut RR interferes in a War Dec. Looses Sec Status and Concord blows up the Neut RR.

For the Gankers this has always been a hot topic
1> Global criminal Tag. make this last a week.
A> Anyone can shoot them
B> Empire stations should deny them docking permission
C> Committing another offense resets times and lose twice has much Sec Status and standing with faction in area.

How about also create a new organization for players to join. something like the Navy police. Granted this idea is kinda on the spur of the moment.
1> Anyone with Global Criminal Tag will show up on overview even if off grid within Empire space.
2> can shot anyone with negative Sec Status or Faction status you are working for.
3> anyone shooting a player who has joined the force navy police ship show up immediately to reinforce their officer with concord showing up at their normal time.
4> NPC reinforcements cannot aid those in Low Sec.

crazy idea.

have fun kids