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Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.06.08 22:00:00 - [1] Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 08/06/2010 22:00:06 Using an alt (to remove bias) I've been asking anyone who will offer their opinion in local what they think of PI. I've removed the names to avoid the conflict of posting what someone has said without their consent. The point of this exercise is to remove the argument of "most Eve players never post on the forums". Yes, I know it could all be fabricated etc., but quite frankly I'm too lazy to ever bother doing something like that. It's easier to simply ask and then cut/paste. To wit: [20:32:54] Mxxxxx > lol CCP [20:32:56] Mxxxxx > PI is a joke. [20:33:00] Mxxxxx > <3 you again CCP [20:51:22] Rxxx Dxxxxxx > Very little gains in starting off... but i s'pose it will get better with improving the necessary skills... I hope :) [20:52:20] xxxxxxx > i think it ranks along with faction warfare in ccp's list of sub optimal ideas not carried through to conclusion [20:53:49] Mxxxxx > PI in its current state: [20:53:54] Mxxxxx > If you can mine in a badger, do that [20:53:58] Mxxxxx > It's more isk/Hour. [20:54:09] xxxxxxxx > lol [20:54:21] Mxxxxx > The NPC orders are what is killing it. Until they are removed, its going to be terrible. Unless you abuse those orders. [20:59:58] Lxxx Sxxxx > annoyingly complicated [21:00:13] Lxxx Sxxxx > and doesn't make me any money for less effort then trading [21:01:37] Exxxxxx Txxxxxxxx > they shouldve made it low-sec only [21:04:32] Mxxxxx > The problem is the NPC orders. CCP made the same mistake 2-3 times this "Expansion". [21:04:59] Mxxxxx > If you want an example, look at Silicate Glass. It's pretty hilarious atm. [21:06:07] Mxxxxx > One of the base components of SIlicate Glass NPCs for more than Silicate Glass by several times over. [21:06:31] Mxxxxx > Its very broken atm. [21:08:07] Mxxxxx > The best/only worthwhile profit I see in PI atm is to do something like... Buy the pieces that make Robotics from NPCs, then make Robotics, then resell Robotics to NPCs [21:39:35] Mxxxxx > Even 2m/day/planet isnt worth this clicking There is much more of the same comments, from multiple regions around Eve: Forge, Citadel, Sinq, Essence, Placid etc. Regardless of what I think, the opinions I've been running across in every system I have asked has been pretty consistent. Does anyone share similar opinions? Does anyone have an overwhelmingly positive experience to share about PI? - Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
weaselalt	Posted - 2010.06.08 22:02:00 - [2] you missed a few name removals
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.06.08 22:05:00 - [3] Originally by: weaselalt you missed a few name removals I fixed 'em. - Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Brolly Caldari Icarus' Wings	Posted - 2010.06.08 22:22:00 - [4] You haters are all the same, PI is awesome, I think it ranks up there with cosmos and factional warfare as one of CCP's best move to date. So many cynics around, you just don't know what the bigger picture is, you're all so narrow minded. I just look forward to Dust and kicking people of my planets, it's going to be awesome!. So yeah, PI awesome, just think how good Ambulation is going to be!!!
Ti'anla Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.08 22:22:00 - [5] Well, for my part.. I'm enjoying Planetary Interaction (started up with it about an hour after downtime) thus far as an aside, and looking forward to seeing what it becomes after this initial framework deployment and its long-term influence on the game. Honestly can't understand all the vicious negativity for my part; bar fact the negative is always proclaimed louder.. Oh well, there's my experience of it. Oh and the little sod's a bit of an ISK sink - I've already gone over the budget I initially allowed myself by double, getting the setup I wanted. So yeah, it's appealing enough to spend ISK on as far as I'm concerned, so far.
Terrax Norik	Posted - 2010.06.08 22:26:00 - [6] Some have decided that anything that is added to the game that they are not fond of should be topic trolled to death, in a vain attempt to influence the Development process of Eve into a direction that they desire. It's both sad and funny at times.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.06.08 22:35:00 - [7] Lol, he asked in local. -------- All I want is a better mankind.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2010.06.08 22:40:00 - [8] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 08/06/2010 22:43:34 2 mil per day per planet?! I need in on this tbh /poor Also lazy though so...
Grez M. Corp Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2010.06.08 22:56:00 - [9] You asked a few people, that doesn't mean you asked 100% of EVE. Regardless, CCP are expanding on their vision of their game. If you don't like PI, don't use it. ---
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.06.08 22:59:00 - [10] Originally by: Grez You asked a few people, that doesn't mean you asked 100% of EVE. Regardless, CCP are expanding on their vision of their game. If you don't like PI, don't use it. Not a 'few'. I've had responses from over 30 individual systems from a wide variety of players. I'm simply not going to waste the time to post them all. I guess I could put them up on some text dump if you're really that interested. - Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Ti'anla Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.08 23:11:00 - [11] Edited by: Ti''anla on 08/06/2010 23:17:19 What's it matter? Shy of a poll on the homepage you're not going to get a noteworthy response no matter where you ask. EVE, like most MMO-games, has too many players, too many of them abstinent from offering their opinion - especially to another player - in too many different places (both in-game and out of game, and generally mobile at that), in god knows how may timezones.. it is highly unlikely, no matter how many systems and regions you polled (and this is assuming you spoke in Local every time, and not the often-turned off (especially by PvE-ers and I'd assume industrialists also) Region channel) that you managed to get the opinions of even a few percent's worth of the total players, even if you include a silent Abstain in the count. Even CCP themselves, despite having access to all of EVE's internal alerts and such forth, are hard-pressed to get representative surveys out of their player-base. These results are interesting, yes, but ultimately irrelevant. The only way we or the creators are going to learn anything even vaguely meaningful about Planetary Interaction is by watching both Planetary Interaction's usage statistics and the effects it has on the rest of EVE.
CaffCeo	Posted - 2010.06.08 23:23:00 - [12] I dunno, We are doing it for POS fuel, it might not be worth the time/effort compared to mining or ratting and then buying it, but ill be damned, its actually fun. I actually enjoy setting up complex networks and then maintaining them. Its a lot less like work than everything else is in eve ;)
Ialjtat	Posted - 2010.06.08 23:29:00 - [13] More than half of these quotes are from my main. I find this humorous for two reasons, the first being that I read/post on MD and SI all day, and the second being that your sample size is so low. oh, and also "most Eve players never post on the forums"
Kyusoath Orillian Haters Gonna Hate	Posted - 2010.06.08 23:32:00 - [14] Originally by: Ti'anla Edited by: Ti''anla on 08/06/2010 23:24:01 What's it matter? Shy of a poll on the EVE homepage you're not going to get a noteworthy response no matter where and on what medium you ask; and even then the results wouldn't be terribly reliable. EVE, like most MMO-games, has too many players, too many of them abstinent from offering their opinion - especially to another player - in too many different places (both in-game and out of game, and generally mobile at that), in god knows how may timezones.. it is highly unlikely, no matter how many systems and regions you polled (and this is assuming you spoke in Local every time, and not the often-turned off (especially by PvE-ers and I'd assume industrialists also) Region channel) that you managed to get the opinions of even a few percent's worth of the total players, even if you include those who Abstain by failing to answer in the count. Even CCP themselves, despite having access to all of EVE's various means of getting players' attention, are hard-pressed to get representative surveys out of their player-base. These results are interesting, yes, but ultimately irrelevant. The only way we or the creators are going to learn anything even vaguely meaningful about Planetary Interaction is by watching both Planetary Interaction's usage statistics and the effects it has on the rest of EVE. ******ed. you want more brokedn 'features' in game ? the 'anger' about PI is that not only is it pathetic its what we got instead of fixes and updates to other garbage features add in previous expansions. seriously, take your mouth away from ccps ass for a while
Cailais Amarr British Armoured Division	Posted - 2010.06.08 23:36:00 - [15] I like it. Its engaging enough, has some mild decision elements to it and a simple enough interface (its a bit like the scan probe mechanism). It passes the time if you want to tinker with it, or just let it run in the background. Will I get rich from PI? Erm...no. Will I make even any ISK at all? Seems unlikely. But then I noticed you can see other players structures on the interface, You can show info and find out whose they are - and then you can go and find them and blow them up! All we need now are 29 more people to also like it and Bellums survey is looking wobbly! C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2010.06.08 23:40:00 - [16] Originally by: Cailais I like it. Its engaging enough, has some mild decision elements to it and a simple enough interface (its a bit like the scan probe mechanism). It passes the time if you want to tinker with it, or just let it run in the background. Will I get rich from PI? Erm...no. Will I make even any ISK at all? Seems unlikely. But then I noticed you can see other players structures on the interface, You can show info and find out whose they are - and then you can go and find them and blow them up! All we need now are 29 more people to also like it and Bellums survey is looking wobbly! C. He asked people across 30 systems, not just 30 people. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
Cailais Amarr British Armoured Division	Posted - 2010.06.08 23:55:00 - [17] Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Cailais I like it. Its engaging enough, has some mild decision elements to it and a simple enough interface (its a bit like the scan probe mechanism). It passes the time if you want to tinker with it, or just let it run in the background. Will I get rich from PI? Erm...no. Will I make even any ISK at all? Seems unlikely. But then I noticed you can see other players structures on the interface, You can show info and find out whose they are - and then you can go and find them and blow them up! All we need now are 29 more people to also like it and Bellums survey is looking wobbly! C. He asked people across 30 systems, not just 30 people. Ah, sorry my bad. 30 systems? Er, doesnt sound very scientific to me. Anyway I still like it. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Blastrodamus	Posted - 2010.06.08 23:58:00 - [18] loving PI here... it's a great addition.
Ti'anla Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.08 23:59:00 - [19] Edited by: Ti''anla on 09/06/2010 00:03:20 Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian <Usual Kyusoath brand abusive and ignorance> Given the amount of filth comes out of your face every time you speak up around here, I think it's you needs to get your mouth away from people's rears. Now, if you were less busy jumping people with homophobic slurs, you might have noticed the post was just about the redundancy of this little poll, and the need to actually have a little patience to find out whether or not there's a negative effect or not. But then, given you're not so much on the hate-wagon, as pulling it voluntarily with the shaft embedded up your butt, I'm betting any sort of post not screaming lolccpsuxorsfailspansion is just lost on you anyway. As I suspect will soon be evidenced by the next round of enraged 12-year-old style obscenities and abuse, likely directed at myself and this post in particular.
Kohana Chayton Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.09 00:04:00 - [20] Originally by: Terrax Norik Some have decided that anything that is added to the game that they are not fond of should be topic trolled to death, in a vain attempt to influence the Development process of Eve into a direction that they desire. It's both sad and funny at times. I don't feel this way. I personally don't care either way about PI, what I do care about is CCP actually completing what they start. Full-filling their promises to us. And fixing things (like the UI for example) that could be better if a little time and effort were thrown it's way. Other than that, I am all for new content and new abilities, ships, things to do, etc being added to the game. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist OK everyone, please play nicely. There is no need to start getting angry or show off your Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Troll impression.
Lord 'Flashheart	Posted - 2010.06.09 00:09:00 - [21] It is the most underpowered expansion in EVE history. The errors made my CCP made BBC News. We have an expansion with nothing anybody cares about, other than the ladies back home WOOF WOOF
Ti'anla Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.09 00:10:00 - [22] Edited by: Ti''anla on 09/06/2010 00:17:01 Originally by: Lord 'Flashheart It is the most underpowered expansion in EVE history. The errors made my CCP made BBC News. ... WOOF WOOF It got mentioned in a BBC, web-only tech-commentator's blog; big whoop >.> WHURF!
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.06.09 00:12:00 - [23] It's a mini-profession, not everyone is expected to do it or enjoy it. I don't like living in a wormhole or doing invention so I don't do it. Because of the low entry cost in isk and sp you are going to be getting a lot of people trying PI which means a lot of people are not going to like it. This is going to happen with every new feature/mini profession added in so I'm not sure what you want done exactly. Delaying or pushing back PI would have been disastrous and adding in more stuff would probably have caused more lols than we already have done. - It's not "Play through a pre-set story, become stronger, do endgame". Gameplay is open ended, and you make your own story. Unless you're too afraid of 'pvp grief' to do anything relevant
Ialjtat	Posted - 2010.06.09 00:37:00 - [24] Originally by: Blastrodamus loving PI here... it's a great addition. Choose at least one: A) Above poster has less than 1m sp B) Above poster has less than 1m isk C) Above poster's minerals which he mines are free
Terminal Insanity Minmatar Gith Industries	Posted - 2010.06.09 00:45:00 - [25] Anything that puts easy money into the hands of noobs = great for eve With all the POS equipment that PI will eventually power, i think it has potential to be a real profit maker in the long run. Anyone who thought the transition from NPC>PC market would be easy, was dropped on their head. ~ ° ° ° ~ Non-Gameplay Enhancements!
Enkilil Minmatar Thirteen Ninety Three	Posted - 2010.06.09 01:05:00 - [26] I'm not going to involve any of my toons in PI just yet, because I haven't seen one popup to adopt a lost, lonely pink cow. Maybe SoonÖ.
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2010.06.09 01:09:00 - [27] Originally by: Ialjtat Originally by: Blastrodamus loving PI here... it's a great addition. Choose at least one: A) Above poster has less than 1m sp B) Above poster has less than 1m isk C) Above poster's minerals which he mines are free D) Actually enjoys PI Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
Apollo Sci Gallente Citadel Logistics Group	Posted - 2010.06.09 01:27:00 - [28] Seriously, give it time to flesh out. If you don't want to do it then don't do it. If CCP designed everything they ever put into the game for one person and you loved to do it all, guess what, you wouldn't have time to do it all anyway. Pick what you like to do and do it. CEO, Citadel Logistics Group
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.06.09 01:58:00 - [29] my impression of PI is that it's a form of station spinning that actually pays.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2010.06.09 02:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Bellum Eternus There is much more of the same comments, from multiple regions around Eve: Forge, Citadel, Sinq, Essence, Placid etc. Regardless of what I think, the opinions I've been running across in every system I have asked has been pretty consistent. Does anyone share similar opinions? Does anyone have an overwhelmingly positive experience to share about PI? Most people i've been talking to don't really have opinions about PI. There's a few 'why bother, it's a big timesink', but most everyone wants to click the buttons and build the thingies and extract the resources i don't really think a clear picture of whether PI is 'good' or not from most of the playerbase will emerge for a few weeks, at least once depletion effects (highsec overcrowding is a go) and the NPC market is unseeded so players can decide for themselves whether or not it's worth it _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep!
minerboob Gallente LG Industries Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2010.06.09 15:22:00 - [31] I logged 6 1/2 hours setting up for PI. Warping around to find 0.0 station that sells it (had an issue where I couldn't dock and had my alliance purchase it for me (and they guy who did it got a good tip, amazed that I had a jetcan trade go smoothly and nobody got borked!) Finally got back home and brainlocked as to what I wanted to produce. Opted to go for as many p3 items as I could. Set up my planets one after another with little issue (thank god for playing with sis to make that ezer) None of my corp mates stole up the good spots fhew! It was INTENSE click fest for a -while- I was telling my roommate every once in a while to shut up while I was clicking . lol The only thing I really borked up was that I set my extractors for 5 hours thinking I could log in b4 I went to work at 7:30 EST (downtime DOH!) to reset them If CCP does their job (which I have faith they will) the market should even out and my stuffs should be making money. After you get all your stuffs set up there is very little you need to do. Reset extractors every day and once a week launch and move stuff. No biggie at all and I can mine at the same time! My guess is that the time/reward will even out and ill start making money on this. I plan on expanding to a second chr to see if I can stand the extra complexity of the production chain. Graphics are pretty cool (good enough) the planets themselves look sweet. All in all, + for PI! Quote: Radioactive cats have 18 half lives
Epicbeardman	Posted - 2010.06.09 15:33:00 - [32] Wow eight people. Where did you get the funding for this monumental project? Moron.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.06.09 15:40:00 - [33] Originally by: Epicbeardman Wow eight people. Where did you get the funding for this monumental project? Moron. He got the funding from the same place you got your reading education... Also, why didn't CCP just say 'Fsck this *-footing stuff... Let's remove all NPC orders, grab a beer and watch the fun'. They can still make up for their past failures.
KaarBaak Minmatar Squirrel Team	Posted - 2010.06.09 15:49:00 - [34] It's all fun and games until my 12-year old nephew logs into Dust514 on his xBox/PS3/PSP/DS and starts blowing up your passive income generators with his super-awesome-mega-bazooka. Until then, I am non-committal on PI (Because I know people were dying to know MY opinion). KB =vinur allra manna Tastes Like Chicken http://evemetagaming.blogspot.com/MetaGaming[
Musical Fist Gallente The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.09 15:58:00 - [35] The ONLY problem is NPC orders thats it tbh, I am pretty shocked at CCP for leaving them on tbh haha but at the same time I find it funny It wouldnt surprise me of tomorrow NPC orders are gone and everything bought is 'broken' -- Emo TraderJohn's Number 1 Fan!!
Dogen Myestic	Posted - 2010.06.09 16:09:00 - [36] Oh sorry, but I wouldn't have seen anyone asking in local, since I was having so much fun playing around with PI stuff. I'm loving PI (this isn't sarcasm). Can't wait to see what the future holds. Thumbs up CCP.
Lt Angus Caldari the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.06.09 16:13:00 - [37] Sure its fun but extractors cost more then they make in their lifetime on most products please resize your signature to the maximum allowed file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
CyberGh0st Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.06.09 16:18:00 - [38] I think so far it has been a nice adition, it may lack the depth atm, but I expect this to be expanded upon. It is quite a bit different from factional warfare, because there are many alternatives types of PvP, while there are no real alternatives for planetary interaction. I welcome this as an entertaining side game. On top of that I noticed many bug fixes ( for example the sound engine has had a couple of long needed fixes ). So I say, good expansion CCP ! http://www.mmodata.net Favorite MMO's : DAoC Pre-TOA-NF / SWG Pre-CU-NGE
Cyrus Mierre The Forsaken Legion	Posted - 2010.06.09 16:22:00 - [39] Originally by: Lt Angus Sure its fun but extractors cost more then they make in their lifetime on most products What lifetime? Until they get blown up by DUST some time in the future? =/ That's quite a claim
Zaerlorth Maelkor The Maverick Navy IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.09 17:19:00 - [40] Originally by: Terminal Insanity Anything that puts easy money into the hands of noobs = great for eve With all the POS equipment that PI will eventually power, i think it has potential to be a real profit maker in the long run. Anyone who thought the transition from NPC>PC market would be easy, was dropped on their head. /thread. However, you might want to consider a few things, first of all; I now have one of those annoying sigs. second; you should probably move on to some more interesting things than reading this sig.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Unknown-Entity Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.09 17:37:00 - [41] I'm having fun getting all the stuff together and planning my planets out and going to work then coming back and seeing stuff in my silos and then transfering stuff and doing it all over again when I wake up in the morning. Run on sentances are fun. I have no clue what it's all worth, I'm just going to make a ** ton of the super advanced stuff and sell it at whatever price I want lol. The whole thing is cheap as hell, an advanced command center is only 3.4 mil, so I just plopped a bunch of them down and now I can put everything I need for my factory planet. That's right, I have an entire planet dedicated to slavery, and it's all mine to command. And any you *es get any ideas when dust comes around, I've already got mah best mans guild committed to playing Dust and going after whoever I deem fit mwhwahahaha Bring on the planet wide terror, I'm hooked. Originally by:** F'nog Originally by: Stareatthesun No no no ... Polaris is where CCP keeps the death star that will destroy eve when the servers shut down. Thankfully I've got Interceptors trained to V. S
Kerfira The Scope	Posted - 2010.06.09 17:38:00 - [42] Buy 2 CC's for producing Guidance Systems Spend 1-2 hours setting up the CC's (first time) Click extractors to start Haul parts from one planet to the other (pay tax) Wait... Pay 600 ISK per Guidance Systems imported... OR Pay 418 ISK to buy a Guidance Systems from an NPC with unlimited supply! Broken??? Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Kyra Felann Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.06.09 17:57:00 - [43] Edited by: Kyra Felann on 09/06/2010 17:58:05 Originally by: Brolly You haters are all the same, PI is awesome, I think it ranks up there with cosmos and factional warfare as one of CCP's best move to date. (emphasis added) Can't tell if serious. If you are serious, both of those are probably the most notoriously unfinished parts of the game. Both are good ideas which were incompletely implemented and then apparently abandoned. I sincerely hope that PI doesn't end up like those two, because that means it'll probably never be finished. -----SIGNATURE----- Originally by: CCP Ginger Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
Syn Callibri Minmatar Blacklight Incorporated	Posted - 2010.06.09 18:13:00 - [44] Blacklight Inc. is looking at PI as an activity that will bring our Corp together in a cohesive goal-oriented effort. That alone is "worth the price of admission" to me. Still not too sure about the "clik-fest" though. (The views expressed may not be those of Blacklight Inc.)
Megan Maynard Minmatar Unknown-Entity Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.09 18:42:00 - [45] Originally by: Kerfira Buy 2 CC's for producing Guidance Systems Spend 1-2 hours setting up the CC's (first time) Click extractors to start Haul parts from one planet to the other (pay tax) Wait... Pay 600 ISK per Guidance Systems imported... OR Pay 418 ISK to buy a Guidance Systems from an NPC with unlimited supply! Broken??? And if you can't get to an NPC station to buy them? Originally by: F'nog Originally by: Stareatthesun No no no ... Polaris is where CCP keeps the death star that will destroy eve when the servers shut down. Thankfully I've got Interceptors trained to V. S
Natalie Caladan Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2010.06.09 18:44:00 - [46] PI? "EVE goes Starcraft"
Kinroi Alari Gallente Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2010.06.09 18:55:00 - [47] Personally, I like PI so far. But then I know people who love spinning ships while camped into a station or outpost. (In fact, playing with PI will likely replace ship spinning for me. ^_^ ) -- Nam Sibyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla pendere...
Cyprus Black Caldari 4 wing Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2010.06.09 19:17:00 - [48] Seemed like you only took down all the negative reactions to PI and ignored the positive ones. Biased much? Regarding PI, I love it. It's yet one more shiny toy in my toybox. I'm not sure yet what to do with the end result of all that processing, but I still enjoy the experience. Especially not having to undock to manage the CCs. ___________________________________ "In the land of predators, the lion does not fear the jackal." -Dexter
Ryhss Caldari Victory Fleet Systems C.H.A.L.I.C.E.	Posted - 2010.06.09 19:32:00 - [49] Edited by: Ryhss on 09/06/2010 19:35:12 Originally by: Brolly You haters are all the same, PI is awesome, I think it ranks up there with cosmos and factional warfare as one of CCP's best move to date. So many cynics around, you just don't know what the bigger picture is, you're all so narrow minded. I just look forward to Dust and kicking people of my planets, it's going to be awesome!. So yeah, PI awesome, just think how good Ambulation is going to be!!! Is that sarcasm or insanity I smell? Originally by: KaarBaak It's all fun and games until my 12-year old nephew logs into Dust514 on his xBox/PS3/PSP/DS and starts blowing up your passive income generators with his super-awesome-mega-bazooka. Until then, I am non-committal on PI (Because I know people were dying to know MY opinion). KB Oh so true. At least for 3 months, the average lifespan of FPS console games.... Originally by: Abrazzar I don't know what's going on but I am terribly upset about it.
Princess Nimotehp Red Eye Brigade	Posted - 2010.06.09 19:34:00 - [50] I was a bit skeptical to PI, but ever since 12.00 UTC 08 June 2010 i have undocked only 2 times. First to place a CC ++ for some water extraction, then after reading EVE University's PI-guide i undocked once more to place out 2 more CC's ++ to make use of the water (and other planetgoo) to eventually being able to make some P4-stuff (though only P3 so far until i get some stock). So yeah... i LOVE it Guess my wallet wont get directly fat of the production any time soon, but he who waits will reap the fruits of hes labor A secondary bonus is that PI can fix the lag issues, i havent undocked with any of my chars (besides to PI) since the launch Nice job CCP!!
Nishachara Special Operations Corp Mortal Destruction	Posted - 2010.06.09 20:09:00 - [51] PI? Its cool, i am satisfied. No really, i logged in today to try it out and finished doing things and clicking, planning stuff...etc for a few hours. All in all its nice and fun in some way. Profits...i dont expect them too much, i earn by other sources enough. Its nice when i am bored and chatting with friends so i have something to do along with chatting I dont understand all the people who flame ccp and stuff for this expansion... imo its a very good expansion. Bug fixes, heh they will come eventually i am sure. And that lag is not a big problem for me, i like small gang pvp so no lag for me ..but i am sure they will fix that when they can too. Anyway + for CCP and + for PI... Heh i started to like PI so much that i trained an alt to dig planets. Only thing that in hs planets are pretty cra... oh wait...on second though PI is baaad very very bad. Dont do it, its not worth it, what ever you do dont put anything on planets
Godsdood	Posted - 2010.06.09 20:23:00 - [52] Well, we have to remember, PI is only the beginning, apparently there's a lot more to come. That said, this has to be the most boring "expansion" I've seen in the 3 years of playing EVE. I'm a big fat carebear, absolutely love industry but this is so crap, almost like it was designed to be played on a mobile phone, lol. I really hope that CCP develops PI into something much much more than what it currently is, a lot more, because moon mining is extremely boring, and planet mining is basically the same thing. I cancelled all 5 my accounts and will wait for a proper expansion\bug fix patch, I would stay for the PVP, but playing in a dead timezone means that even that hasn't changed in years. Dominion did nothing for Oceanic timezone, and PI just looks like a little something to distract us so that CCP can focus on Dust514. I vote for more bug fixes, improved options for small gang PVP, and Sleeper AI in missions!

CCP Zymurgist Gallente C C P	Posted - 2010.06.09 20:46:00 - [53] I know you may not consider me a player but I do play EVE and I have to say I am enjoying the Planetary Interaction as it currently stands. It isn't my primary source of income and so far i've jut lost money on it but I'm having tons of fun. In fact I got yelled at by my wife for getting up in the middle of a movie to "go to the bathroom" when she found out I was checking out new planets! It was worth it, some of my extractors had timed out. Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact Us

pmchem Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.06.09 20:51:00 - [54] Edited by: pmchem on 09/06/2010 20:51:45 Originally by: CCP Zymurgist It isn't my primary source of income and so far i've jut lost money on it but I'm having tons of fun. If you've lost money on it, then I'll assume you haven't been exploiting npc buy/sell orders and your losing money is pretty much the "working as intended" result. oh and this will not change for months on many items because whoops, cheap stockpiles
Thi Li	Posted - 2010.06.09 21:10:00 - [55] So far i like it, but comming improvments are welcomed. Id love to have the ability to build 1 harvester, then just upgrade that one to harvest more (think of the easy of extract~send by just having one big upgraded one) Instead of plopping down alot of them all over the place, i could do with a few here and there then just upgrade them to harvest more (smaller auto connected nodes when it get upgraded for exsample) :p
ghosttr Amarr Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.06.09 21:14:00 - [56] I like PI, but CCP has dropped the ball on npc sell orders several times now. CCP should be more aggressive with removing sell orders. They should have just given players the week before PI to stockpile pos food, and then released it with a clean market. Players just cant compete with the NPC sell orders. The other thing is the import and export taxes setting a minimum price for PI items. I dont know if trade skills effect the taxes, but if they dont, they should. Prospecting!
TheLordofAllandNothing Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.09 21:14:00 - [57] Useful for free pos fuel for the corp that i have to go pickup every couple of days with a bit of re-surverying every day. _______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =(
Arous Drephius	Posted - 2010.06.09 21:29:00 - [58] Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing Useful for free pos fuel Except that it's not free.
JitaPriceChecker2	Posted - 2010.06.09 21:39:00 - [59] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist I know you may not consider me a player but I do play EVE and I have to say I am enjoying the Planetary Interaction as it currently stands. It isn't my primary source of income and so far i've jut lost money on it but I'm having tons of fun. In fact I got yelled at by my wife for getting up in the middle of a movie to "go to the bathroom" when she found out I was checking out new planets! It was worth it, some of my extractors had timed out. Goods , i just lack the words to descibre what i have just read.
Zoltar Torzoid Gallente Swag Co. Sandbox Bullies	Posted - 2010.06.09 21:59:00 - [60] Edited by: Zoltar Torzoid on 09/06/2010 21:59:14 Originally by: CCP Zymurgist I know you may not consider me a player but I do play EVE and I have to say I am enjoying the Planetary Interaction as it currently stands. It isn't my primary source of income and so far i've jut lost money on it but I'm having tons of fun. In fact I got yelled at by my wife for getting up in the middle of a movie to "go to the bathroom" when she found out I was checking out new planets! It was worth it, some of my extractors had timed out. It's an amusing distraction, but sooner or later the nuance WILL wear off. Unless something is done (remove NPC orders ffs) quickly to make it a profitable endeavor to mine planets, people will stop doing it. Every chain I've seen so far costs more to build than you can make in a week from it's result, assuming you are not abusing the total win that is NPC buy orders. If you have to rebuild your network roughly once a week, then you will forever be losing money. Not a viable time investment in a game in which the only quantifiable measure of success is how much money you can make. TBH, I'd say at max skills, you should be able to bring in 20-50m isk a planet per week x6 planets and it would be a viable mini-career. those that argue that it's not supposed to be profitable, but it's supposed to be fun will probably all change their story when they realize that they've clicked billions of times for a net loss. Just saying. fix if ASAP. It's broken, and 1 little change COULD make the difference in a viable profession or a complete waste of coding time. (NPC ORDERS NEED TO GO) also, increasing it's end-product yield couldn't hurt either. Sure seems like a TON of effort for a couple trinkets that could have easily been bought for a fraction of the cost to build. All in all, I honestly believe that PI has some potential. Then again, so have many things CCP have half-developed and left us stuck with. __________________ SWAG Co. We Build The Stuff You Steal! -Zoltar CEO
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.06.09 22:00:00 - [61] Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Gods , i just lack the words to descibre what i have just read. The rest of us usually just say "/facepalm" _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Chronos VIII Amarr Invicta. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2010.06.09 22:01:00 - [62] This reminds me of alchemy actually
Doctor Mabuse	Posted - 2010.06.09 22:47:00 - [63] Unfortunately it just doesn't scale. As a feature it was supposed to appeal to all players, but there is no way to make the isk earning potential balanced. If you make PI bring in a decent isk stream comparable to L4s which will interest the medium term and older players as a way of funding there activities, everyone complains that new players are making isk too easily with minimal skills. On the other hand, if you make the isk return very low, comparable with what a new player is expected to earn doing other activities, none of the medium/old players are interested. The alternative is to find a non-isk related way of encouraging people to use PI, in other words make it fun. There is little that is 'fun' about PI in its current form. I'm still not sure that it's even a good idea to be introducing new players to PI as a way of making isk. Their first impressions of Eve aren't going to be too good if they've spent hours clicking at nodes and links to make enough for that Rifter. ------------------------------------ Who's trip-trapping on my bridge?
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.06.09 23:04:00 - [64] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist I know you may not consider me a player but I do play EVE and I have to say I am enjoying the Planetary Interaction as it currently stands. It isn't my primary source of income and so far i've jut lost money on it but I'm having tons of fun. In fact I got yelled at by my wife for getting up in the middle of a movie to "go to the bathroom" when she found out I was checking out new planets! It was worth it, some of my extractors had timed out. Lol. Tamagotchi indeed haha. - Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Rpeg Minmatar Rosa Castellum	Posted - 2010.06.09 23:12:00 - [65] Edited by: Rpeg on 09/06/2010 23:12:02 it's almost a slightly passive income and has promise. -- autechre - ep7 - track 1: rpeg estevancarlos.com
Discrodia Gallente Strong Island Industries Leather Rose Syndicate	Posted - 2010.06.09 23:16:00 - [66] I don't understand the hate. I find PI pretty fun (moreso than station spinning) and the production chains and everything, though a bit headache-y, are fun enough. 7/10 for this one. (Let's get Incarna sometime soon, m'kay?) Originally by: CCP Adida Wait where am I... Don't remember a thing from last night.
Scrobes	Posted - 2010.06.09 23:42:00 - [67] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist I know you may not consider me a player but I do play EVE and I have to say I am enjoying the Planetary Interaction as it currently stands. It isn't my primary source of income and so far i've jut lost money on it but I'm having tons of fun. In fact I got yelled at by my wife for getting up in the middle of a movie to "go to the bathroom" when she found out I was checking out new planets! It was worth it, some of my extractors had timed out. Which movie?
Ak'athra J'ador Amarr Inglorious-Basterds	Posted - 2010.06.09 23:44:00 - [68] I can believe they made such a pour expansion. I am not sure if it is just me but what I like a lot in this (PI) type of games is upgrades.you know, you build something like an extractor and it works and it gets you resources. then you upgrade the thing and it looks more awesome and gets more resources. and then you upgrade the factory and it makes more stuff. and after a while lots of things are upgraded and you feel like you have top of the line stuff and its awesome. and said upgrades take time, so you invest, and feel proud of said colony. but then again, maybe its just me...but the whole deal looks halfased... there is no upgrading here, just lots of clicks :( not only that, if you wish to upgrade your centre you have to delete everything...or there is a way and I just haven't found it yet. also what's the deal with being able to place extractors so close together. you should not be able to place extractors so close to other people or even yourself...or at least they should steal from each-other. or deplete resources or something. course maybe they already do, or will start to before dust hits. there needs to be a reason for me to kick the other guy off my planet. there needs to be pvp...that's eve. and also you made a big point of dust how I will get his stuff after the troops beat him up. but right now extractors and factories are very cheap, and there is no incentive in getting his infrastructure. I don't know...I guess we expected more from you guys.
Ekrid	Posted - 2010.06.09 23:49:00 - [69] Edited by: Ekrid on 09/06/2010 23:51:28 Edited by: Ekrid on 09/06/2010 23:49:47 Originally by: Grez You asked a few people, that doesn't mean you asked 100% of EVE. Regardless, CCP are expanding on their vision of their game. If you don't like PI, don't use it. lol @ this ****. Every idiot who think's they're being clever says "if you dont like it dont use it". well I got news for you. the reason they could implement this is because we pay their salary. so Im supposed to pay for something Im not using and be okay with that? Look at what CCP removed because "It wasn't cost effective". Classic CLient. Medium SHader. Widescreen. I and a large amount of others used all three of these functions in their lifetime. but they got removed. should we add these back into the game because of your mentality that we should pay for what we don't use? NOWHERE did anyon complain about these additions taking up their money to support them, but if anyone did, I'd be the first in line to say "if you don't like it, dont use it, and oh yeah keep paying so CCP can make it for us who do use it", if only in response to asinine posts like this who tell us not to use something we're paying for. CCP REMOVED CONTENT WE WERE PAYING FOR AND NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT, AND ADDS CONTENT PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT, BUT PEOPLE POST "LOL I R HURR DURR, DONT USE IF U DONT LIKE IT". Get a ing clue. Originally by:** pmchem Edited by: pmchem on 09/06/2010 20:51:45 Originally by: CCP Zymurgist It isn't my primary source of income and so far i've jut lost money on it but I'm having tons of fun. If you've lost money on it, then I'll assume you haven't been exploiting npc buy/sell orders and your losing money is pretty much the "working as intended" result. oh and this will not change for months on many items because whoops, cheap stockpiles this.
Herateis	Posted - 2010.06.10 00:05:00 - [70] Edited by: Herateis on 10/06/2010 00:15:11 Im just going to troll DUST 514 players all day long with scams from my ship in orbit in protest. I hope PI does just as well and gets just as fleshed out as faction warfare and cosmos. Honest. Given CCP's track record with new content releases, all this complaining about PI is unfounded. they'll let it rot away eventually and it will change nothing, except that they added one more useless thing to the game.
Ak'athra J'ador Amarr Inglorious-Basterds	Posted - 2010.06.10 00:17:00 - [71] Originally by: Discrodia (Let's get Incarna sometime soon, m'kay?) well no. or at least we need a new big thing. see CCP is all about promises, and lots of people play because...the game has potential. they cant just release incarna, they need something else to keep us fixed after they release it. cant be bothered to search for the post so I could quote, but a dev said something along the lines of "for the winter expansion we are working hard to bring you something incarna related". see its not incarna...its something incarna related. CCP is a great drug dealer, they give you just the right amount to keep you hooked. we wont be getting incarna, will be getting something to keep us playing until a little more of it is released, so the vicious cycle repeats once more. and fear not dear players, once all of incarna is released, we will be already craving for the next big promise. how does that joke about CCP devs go again?
Laendra Universalis Imperium	Posted - 2010.06.10 01:26:00 - [72] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist I know you may not consider me a player but I do play EVE and I have to say I am enjoying the Planetary Interaction as it currently stands. It isn't my primary source of income and so far i've jut lost money on it but I'm having tons of fun. In fact I got yelled at by my wife for getting up in the middle of a movie to "go to the bathroom" when she found out I was checking out new planets! It was worth it, some of my extractors had timed out. One of the things that I have found missing from PI is the ability to have CORP planetary assets....you know, launch x amount of command centers per xyz skill of the CEO for the Corp, and certain roles have the ability to place, modify and maintain Corp PI.... -------------------
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.10 02:00:00 - [73] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist In fact I got yelled at by my wife for getting up in the middle of a movie to "go to the bathroom" when she found out I was checking out new planets! It was worth it, some of my extractors had timed out. Sigh and people wonder about the divorce rate GET OFF THE FORUMS AND GO GRIND REP WITH THE WIFE! . . . . . . . . a (Long) Guide to Pi
Dogen Myestic	Posted - 2010.06.10 05:05:00 - [74] Originally by: Ekrid Edited by: Ekrid on 10/06/2010 00:06:42 Originally by: Grez You asked a few people, that doesn't mean you asked 100% of EVE. Regardless, CCP are expanding on their vision of their game. If you don't like PI, don't use it. lol @ this ****. Every idiot who think's they're being clever says "if you dont like it dont use it". well I got news for you. the reason they could implement this is because we pay their salary. so Im supposed to pay for something Im not using and be okay with that? The cool thing is you're not paying for it. Its a free expansion. They could quite reasonably ask you to keep paying for the game in its current state (see every other commercial MMO with paid expansions). Fact is my friend, they don't charge for the expansions. You're not paying to use it. Seems to me that... If you don't like PI, don't use it!**
mkmin	Posted - 2010.06.10 05:52:00 - [75] Originally by: Dogen Myestic Originally by: Ekrid Edited by: Ekrid on 10/06/2010 00:06:42 Originally by: Grez You asked a few people, that doesn't mean you asked 100% of EVE. Regardless, CCP are expanding on their vision of their game. If you don't like PI, don't use it. lol @ this ****. Every idiot who think's they're being clever says "if you dont like it dont use it". well I got news for you. the reason they could implement this is because we pay their salary. so Im supposed to pay for something Im not using and be okay with that? The cool thing is you're not paying for it. Its a free expansion. They could quite reasonably ask you to keep paying for the game in its current state (see every other commercial MMO with paid expansions). Fact is my friend, they don't charge for the expansions. You're not paying to use it. Seems to me that... If you don't like PI, don't use it!** Like hell we aren't paying for expansions. My $15 per month pays for expansions, multiplied by 300,000 or so accounts = $4.5 mil per month * 6 months = CCP got paid almost $30 mil to make such a lame, broken expansion. Or, let's compare it to how much we pay for the MMOs where you pay for an expansion without a monthly fee... $15 X 6 months = $90. Going rate for non-MMOs are $60-70 when they are new, state of the art, polished, and preferably complete. Don't dare tell me that I'm not paying for expansions, because not only have I been paying my $90 per expansion, I've been paying for multiple accounts. This has been the expansion that's made me realize CCP is a joke, and EVE is CCP's joke on all of us. For me it's now a matter of seeing if CCP will take us and our $30 mill per expansion seriously before I resub my accounts. Also, on topic: CCP never said PI would be fun. They just said it'd let Dusters into the game so we can watch them have fun.
Xartarous Caldari pSyChOTIC CareBears	Posted - 2010.06.10 05:56:00 - [76] Originally by: mkmin Originally by: Dogen Myestic Originally by: Ekrid Edited by: Ekrid on 10/06/2010 00:06:42 Originally by: Grez You asked a few people, that doesn't mean you asked 100% of EVE. Regardless, CCP are expanding on their vision of their game. If you don't like PI, don't use it. lol @ this ****. Every idiot who think's they're being clever says "if you dont like it dont use it". well I got news for you. the reason they could implement this is because we pay their salary. so Im supposed to pay for something Im not using and be okay with that? The cool thing is you're not paying for it. Its a free expansion. They could quite reasonably ask you to keep paying for the game in its current state (see every other commercial MMO with paid expansions). Fact is my friend, they don't charge for the expansions. You're not paying to use it. Seems to me that... If you don't like PI, don't use it!** Like hell we aren't paying for expansions. My $15 per month pays for expansions, multiplied by 300,000 or so accounts = $4.5 mil per month * 6 months = CCP got paid almost $30 mil to make such a lame, broken expansion. Or, let's compare it to how much we pay for the MMOs where you pay for an expansion without a monthly fee... $15 X 6 months = $90. Going rate for non-MMOs are $60-70 when they are new, state of the art, polished, and preferably complete. Don't dare tell me that I'm not paying for expansions, because not only have I been paying my $90 per expansion, I've been paying for multiple accounts. This has been the expansion that's made me realize CCP is a joke, and EVE is CCP's joke on all of us. For me it's now a matter of seeing if CCP will take us and our $30 mill per expansion seriously before I resub my accounts. Also, on topic: CCP never said PI would be fun. They just said it'd let Dusters into the game so we can watch them have fun. Argh! just STFU
Serpents smile	Posted - 2010.06.10 05:57:00 - [77] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Lol. Tamagotchi indeed haha. Right on the button. PI is nothing more and nothing less then a たまごっち. Well it is less since it cannot die (yet).
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.06.10 06:34:00 - [78] Originally by: Serpents smile Originally by: Bellum Eternus Lol. Tamagotchi indeed haha. Right on the button. PI is nothing more and nothing less then a たまごっち. Well it is less since it cannot die (yet). The funny (or not so funny really) thing is that I made a little tongue in cheek post a while back proclaiming that PI was the Eve equivalent of Tamagotchi and everyone flamed me and told me what a bad person I am for "complaining" about something that "wasn't even out yet". And yet here we are, aren't we? My major issue with PI is this: CCP has totally screwed up the delivery and integration of the systems between Eve, Dust514 and it's interface- PI. Dust is probably waaaay behind schedule and won't be released for another year or so. It definitely won't be ready for a winter 2010 release or even a spring 2011 release. And it most certainly won't be released ready to roll and 100% integrated with Eve when it comes out. The first release will most likely feel like an 'alpha' release due to all the bugs and integration issues that are sure to crop up. The problem here is that PI stuff in Eve won't be able to be destroyed until Dust is finally implemented, years behind schedule and with half the features originally planned. This isn't good for Eve. Dust should be completed and THEN the interface between the two games should be designed and implemented once Dust is COMPLETELY finished and off the ground/launched and well received by the console crowd. Any other effort on the part of the Eve side of the design is a waste of time until Dust is finally realized. They're putting the cart before the horse and probably doing more harm than good in the long run to Eve. Everyone says that Eve will work and PI will work without Dust, in the case that it fails. Oh really? Then how are we going to be able to destroy PI stuff without dust? And if we are, then why do we need Dust at all? As for PI doing 'damage' to Eve in the long term: just look at the botched introduction of PI with the NPC sell orders etc. I'm all for putting NPC items in the hands of players to manufacture, but let's not create yet another system where items will be farmed into virtual worthlessness by hordes of high sec players with a virtual free ride and complete safety with no possible option for an opposing player to destroy their assets. I don't understand why more people don't have a problem with this. It's poor planning on CCP's part. - Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Kendar Gallente 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.06.10 07:00:00 - [79] Originally by: Ekrid Edited by: Ekrid on 10/06/2010 00:06:42 Originally by: Grez You asked a few people, that doesn't mean you asked 100% of EVE. Regardless, CCP are expanding on their vision of their game. If you don't like PI, don't use it. lol @ this ****. Every idiot who think's they're being clever says "if you dont like it dont use it". well I got news for you. the reason they could implement this is because we pay their salary. so Im supposed to pay for something Im not using and be okay with that? Look at what CCP removed because "It wasn't cost effective". Classic CLient. Medium SHader. Widescreen. I and a large amount of others used all three of these functions in their lifetime. but they got removed. should we add these back into the game because of your mentality that we should pay for what we don't use? NOWHERE did anyon complain about these additions taking up their money to support them, but if anyone did, I'd be the first in line to say "if you don't like it, dont use it, and oh yeah keep paying so CCP can make it for us who do use it", if only in response to asinine posts like this who tell us not to use something we're paying for. CCP REMOVED CONTENT WE WERE PAYING FOR AND NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT, AND ADDS CONTENT PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT, BUT PEOPLE POST "LOL I R HURR DURR, DONT USE IF U DONT LIKE IT". Get a ing clue. I would be perfectly fine paying money to give you what you want, but apparently a lot of other people (including me) dont get the same treatment from CCP. Originally by:** pmchem Edited by: pmchem on 09/06/2010 20:51:45 Originally by: CCP Zymurgist It isn't my primary source of income and so far i've jut lost money on it but I'm having tons of fun. If you've lost money on it, then I'll assume you haven't been exploiting npc buy/sell orders and your losing money is pretty much the "working as intended" result. oh and this will not change for months on many items because whoops, cheap stockpiles this. You seem mad, mabye quiting is a option?
DRACO selen The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.10 07:18:00 - [80] - requires alot of time - profit is next to nothing - people will not use it, because ratting in lowsec is more isk - ccp will remove tradegoods from npc orders - markets will crash hello PI.
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2010.06.10 07:41:00 - [81] Originally by: Dogen Myestic The cool thing is you're not paying for it. Its a free expansion. I seriously start to think people who say that should be flogged in public. How could it possibly be NOT a "free" expansion? Eve is "one server, one universe", remember? Creating an expansion that is only available to those who pay extra would rather ruin that, no? Besides, we're paying constantly, nothing is free. We're forced to buy expansion rather than them being free.
Musical Fist Gallente The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.10 08:30:00 - [82] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist I know you may not consider me a player but I do play EVE and I have to say I am enjoying the Planetary Interaction as it currently stands. It isn't my primary source of income and so far i've jut lost money on it but I'm having tons of fun. In fact I got yelled at by my wife for getting up in the middle of a movie to "go to the bathroom" when she found out I was checking out new planets! It was worth it, some of my extractors had timed out. You mean CCP have to farm their own ISK but get paid RL cash for it Remove NPC orders, 3 days of damage so far, just look at the buy / sell order history on trade goods (robotics and p2 items to make robotics for example) its INSANE Plus you should split NPC items (bought too) into 2 categories 1 - The ones bought of the market which CANT be used in PI buildings BUT for a short time can work in poses etc 2 - The PI ones which can work in PoSes and can be sold The stockpile data shows billions being exploited and killing PI only minutes after CCs were seeded, surely CCPs intentions werent to allow this to happen again :P -- Emo TraderJohn's Number 1 Fan!!
Sade Onyx	Posted - 2010.06.10 08:36:00 - [83] I expected more from you Bellum. you damn well know peoples response is going to be purely financial. Indeed, its passive income so the actual reward itself is completely irrelevant, (since its in addition to everyones income, not a replacement) but your typical short sighted eve player cant comprehend this. No response I've seen here really says what they think of the system, more like what they think about the rewards! And, it seems you haven't been asking players in local, seems you've just asked one player ¼.¼, yea, a great cross section of the eve community Bellum, this gives an accurate representation of the overall opinion!.... NOT! So... since when did you employ yourself as the forums chief troll baiter?
Taran Seikar	Posted - 2010.06.10 09:19:00 - [84] Edited by: Taran Seikar on 10/06/2010 09:22:32 Edited by: Taran Seikar on 10/06/2010 09:21:47 Originally by: Sade Onyx I expected more from you Bellum. you damn well know peoples response is going to be purely financial. Indeed, its passive income so the actual reward itself is completely irrelevant, (since its in addition to everyones income, not a replacement) but your typical short sighted eve player cant comprehend this. No response I've seen here really says what they think of the system, more like what they think about the rewards! And, it seems you haven't been asking players in local, seems you've just asked one player ¼.¼, yea, a great cross section of the eve community Bellum Originally by: Sade Onyx this gives an accurate representation of the overall opinion!.... NOT! ? You want to talk about the system? Whats there to talk about? This ist hardly Sim City or Industry Giant. It's some monochrome icons (not even 3d, except one at a time, when you click on them)that you spend a tedious few minutes every day/every 5 hours clicking, to further click the same buttons every day/5h. It isn't the immersive experience I would have liked it to be, but that's ok. I really looked forward to it and as long as I can make a profit from it, I don't mind that it's a pretty basic system. They'll improve it over time, right? It's only... how did you express it? "I'm making a profit from PI that compensates me for all the tedious clicking and hauling I have to do for it!.... NOT!" I'm sure there are people who find it relaxing and fun, clicking those same extractor buttons day in day out and PI in it's current form will be great fun for them, but that was hardly the intended scope for PI, was it? You should do it to produce stuff to sell, not only because it's fun. It's like they added 1 ISK sell orders for tritanium from the start and claimed people could still mine "for the fun of it" This was (almost) the entire content of a whole expansion. 0.0 Sov warfare depends on it. Not only for the towers and fuel, but for sov structures as well. T2 producers are dependent on it. Are the people that do it for fun really enough to depend on for all these other players? You need the people that are in it for the money. otherwise you can't hope to match demand. The problem with that is that there isn't any money in doing it as intended right now and for the foreseeable future. Everything is bought up in the hundreds of millions. My corp alone has stockpiled enough POS fuel to last us over a year. If you try to sell right now, you have to compete with ridiculously low NPC orders. What was the genius plan with those anyway? "We'll let the npc orders fill demand so players can get their systems working to take over in 2 weeks"? How about a little economy 101? 0 Demand to be filled = 0 production of goods for that demand First it's the npc orders that take away all demand, later it will be the stockpiled stuff, that is going to be in roughly the same pricerange due to the massive competition. Who in their right mind would produce anything now, if you can't make money with it for at least half a year? I always hear people claim "I'll just put it in storage and in half a year, I'll sell it for profit" Guess what everyone else will be doing! So then we seamlessly transition from huge bought up stockpiles to huge built stockpiles. Demand is satisfied from those, so no profit again in making new stuff. PI is massively prenerfed in true CCP fashion. I really wanted to like it. I looked forward to it from it's first mention on. But the bland interface (seriously, why aren't the buildings in 3d?), the tedious clicking and the complete absence of redeeming profit makes it unplayable.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.10 09:32:00 - [85] Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Cailais All we need now are 29 more people to also like it and Bellums survey is looking wobbly! C. He asked people across 30 systems, not just 30 people. Ah, sorry my bad. 30 systems? Er, doesnt sound very scientific to me. Anyway I still like it. C. And he posted the replies from 5 people. BTW: I like PI. An isk sink for now, but it has great potentials and even at the current level it is interesting. And it encourage industry PvP.
Steve Celeste Caldari Inglorious-Basterds	Posted - 2010.06.10 10:24:00 - [86] Originally by: mkmin Also, on topic: CCP never said PI would be fun. They just said it'd let Dusters into the game so we can watch them have fun.
Rejka	Posted - 2010.06.10 10:37:00 - [87] I like PI a lot. I honestly believe it is one of the best EVE expansions ever released so far. Of course it will need to prove its real value once the NPC orders are removed and the economy reaches a normal balance, but the concept and the implementation for what I have seen is really excellent and I can only hope that this is expanded even further in the future. Many of you might be complaining now, but in a few weeks you will see how many people will be enjoying this feature, probably more people of the ones using T3 stuff or wormholes. What many players would need to accept, is that not every expansion can appeal them, and this is because of the multirole / multiactivity nature of eve. I don't complain every time they work on the PvP aspect, you shouldn't complain when they improve the industry side of EVE, and in general when they introduce new features
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Primary.	Posted - 2010.06.10 10:45:00 - [88] It has long term potential. However it looks like the greatest benefits are in cooperation not solo producing. Early on we have to work through folks stockpiles, build necessary infrastructure, then pressure CCP to remove the NPCs goods. I figure half the folks that try it will quit in 2 months. I wish there was an extraction option for 168 hours to help accomadate vacations. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. -Mitnal
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.06.10 10:58:00 - [89] Edited by: Zartrader on 10/06/2010 11:00:15 PI is fine, could do with a few interface tweaks though: For those that don't want to use it, then don't. Not all content should be geared towards what one person wants and its dumb to think it should be. I'm already unhappy with all the heavy Nul sec bias in the CSM. In the last minutes there was not one proposal that had anything to do with what I want to see. Waste of time. The last expansion did almost nothing for me at all. For those that think sell orders would have been removed. Well, of course they couldn't be. PI will take a week or two to be established and there could have been a very bad bug introduced. If that means profiteering or overstocking then so what? The market will right itself in the end as all production is consumed, its nothing like the reprocess error as Outposts and Pos's are mainly fixed assets with a very high value. For those who say it's not worth it. Well, not all of us play for ISK all the time. If we did, PVP would die. Not being worth it is irrelevant right now anyway. It will take several months before things settle and a proper market is established. If needed, CCP can adjust at that time. To do so before then would not be a good idea. People need to stop jumping on the 'I told you so' band wagon as PI is far from settled or stable. Give is a month or two and then complaints will be valid. It does need a LOT of additions to it and CCP will have to come good on those promises, until then I'm happy with what there is and I'll reserve final judgement until then.
Marmios Rim Collection RC Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.06.10 11:28:00 - [90] Edited by: Marmios on 10/06/2010 11:32:57 Edited by: Marmios on 10/06/2010 11:29:17 Posting such thread after 2 days and not even taking into account, that the npc sell orders are still messing the prices up leaves me thinking that you BE are: 1) a damn noob, who doesnt have a clue how long it takes until new features actually have their full effect on the game (3 - 12 Months) or 2) You are a stupid attention ***, who knows hes talking **. EDIT: Surveying random people in local is ultra pr0! i tend to 2). BE. you are a stupid idiot.
Solomunio Kzenig Amarr InterSun Freelance	Posted - 2010.06.10 11:34:00 - [91] Ok as someone who has actually spent the bulk of their 'EVE time' since the 8th actually engaged in PI (two chars/8 planets) I'll just throw in my 2 ISK worth. 1. Its a click fest, you could burn out your fapping arm in a week if you are not careful. 2. Interface/usability needs a bit of love, grouping extractors for example and more cycle times than than the current ones, a 12 hour one and maybe a 192 hour one (covers workdays/sleep and a week off). 3. It will get 'old' VERY quick, right now it looks and feels like a gimmick, the only way to get decent returns is to run your extractors in 30 minute cycles, you could spend all your EVE time just messing with PI, to the complete detriment of anything else in EVE. 4. Until the NPC orders are scrubbed from the market for PI goods the actual long term profitability (or not) of PI is unknown.
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.06.10 12:18:00 - [92] Edited by: Zartrader on 10/06/2010 12:20:02 Originally by: Solomunio Kzenig Ok as someone who has actually spent the bulk of their 'EVE time' since the 8th actually engaged in PI (two chars/8 planets) I'll just throw in my 2 ISK worth. 1. Its a click fest, you could burn out your fapping arm in a week if you are not careful. 2. Interface/usability needs a bit of love, grouping extractors for example and more cycle times than than the current ones, a 12 hour one and maybe a 192 hour one (covers workdays/sleep and a week off). 3. It will get 'old' VERY quick, right now it looks and feels like a gimmick, the only way to get decent returns is to run your extractors in 30 minute cycles, you could spend all your EVE time just messing with PI, to the complete detriment of anything else in EVE. 4. Until the NPC orders are scrubbed from the market for PI goods the actual long term profitability (or not) of PI is unknown. I think grouping is a must to keep people interested. Just a simple block select would do. I know CCP like 10 clicks when one would do (which is the main reason I avoid low sec missioning) but extractor routing is an extreme bore. If the client does not allow this they could implement grades of extractors which are simply multiples of the existing ones, even being physically larger if needed.
Lupe Fiasco	Posted - 2010.06.10 13:22:00 - [93] There was some talk of whether or not you're "paying" for new stuff that CCP puts in the game. Just think for a second. The game is $15 each month. If CCP never added so much as another .jpg to the game but left the servers up, it would cost $15 each month. That they release new content patches (good or bad) for no additional cost to the user implies that this content is in fact without cost. Compare this to other MMOs on the market that have expansion releases that charge almost as much as the full client to the game itself. And, not only that, but it's implied you continue to pay your monthly fee for access to the game. So yes you're paying for the game and the stuff that goes in to it based on your monthly fee. But when new content comes out it isn't reflected in your Real Life ISK payments to CCP. ____________ Kick, Push
Orree Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.06.10 13:32:00 - [94] Personally, I have no interest in Planetary Interation. I don't expect to do any of it ever or train the skills. I had no interest in it from the moment it was announced as a future addition. For those that like it or have an interest in it, more power to 'em, though. I'm glad they have a new bit of content in the game that interests them. ---------- "How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2010.06.10 14:06:00 - [95] I've actually been having fun with PI. Somehow, it just kinda fits in with the rest of the game. I was pretty skeptical of the feature when it was announced, and even more skeptical when it got rolled out on the test server and I read the various criticisms, but the actual implementation exceeded what I thought we'd end up with. I can't really explain what is fun about it, but I do find it so in the same light as mining...it's relaxing and neat to mess around with. You can also see that it has the potential to become much more than it is today.
Roemy Schneider Vanishing Point.	Posted - 2010.06.10 14:24:00 - [96] Originally by: DRACO selen - requires alot of time - profit is next to nothing - people will not use it, because ratting in lowsec is more isk - ccp will remove tradegoods from npc orders - markets will crash hello PI. yeah... i'm withholding judgement until NPC sell orders are gone. however, there's still the eco-breaking screw-ups... reprocessing has been a huge part of eve before the carrier/mineral compression nerf 3 years ago. and because of that nerf, i'd say this assessment is "official". NPC-sold shuttles/civ afterburners and later pos mods for trit should have raised sufficient awareness. so why am i still not surprised that your economists and S&I department missed that completely...? - putting the gist back into logistics
Backfyre	Posted - 2010.06.10 20:09:00 - [97] Overall, I find PI to be a good facet of Eve gameplay but it needs some serious balancing and improvement. I also agree that it could get boring real fast. Then again, miners sit there for hours a day for years effectively watching grass die. Once the planet is set up though, PI makes mining look exciting. Need to fix that. With balancing, production rates need a significant boost. In hisec, I have 5 planets working to create robotics and guidance systems that have a daily total worth of 250k ISK in pre-Tyrannis prices. The rate is too low to sustain POS operations and T2 production and the benefit-for-time ratio is wonky. This is going to be a wild ride for the market. The click-fest needs to get fixed. The cost-benefit just isn't worth the tendenitis. I have to do what for 250k worth of materials?!? Player control of production rates - make all extraction the same rate but let players choose processor speeds. Have higher speeds use more materials to make the same product. This is the "right" way to handle rates. The current extraction rate stuff is upside-down and FUBAR. Add variety. "optional" inputs, like slaves, to tweak colony bonuses would be cool. Lots of potential, but PI needs a lot of work.
Ekrid	Posted - 2010.06.11 01:07:00 - [98] Edited by: Ekrid on 11/06/2010 01:07:41 Originally by: Dogen Myestic Originally by: Ekrid Edited by: Ekrid on 10/06/2010 00:06:42 Originally by: Grez You asked a few people, that doesn't mean you asked 100% of EVE. Regardless, CCP are expanding on their vision of their game. If you don't like PI, don't use it. lol @ this ****. Every idiot who think's they're being clever says "if you dont like it dont use it". well I got news for you. the reason they could implement this is because we pay their salary. so Im supposed to pay for something Im not using and be okay with that? The cool thing is you're not paying for it. Its a free expansion. They could quite reasonably ask you to keep paying for the game in its current state (see every other commercial MMO with paid expansions). Fact is my friend, they don't charge for the expansions. You're not paying to use it. Seems to me that... If you don't like PI, don't use it! the cool thing about this you proved you're an idiot. There's no such thing as "Free". Sure, a cost is hidden in something else, that doesn't make it free. Do you really think that us paying 15$ a month is "free"? I bet you're poor in real life, since you can't seem to grasp basic concepts of labor value. the devs who make expansions are NOT doing it on their own free time for the love of the game. They're doing it because they get paid. Who pays them? Their management. Where does the management get the money? Subscribers to Eve online. They continually have cut costs (see: removal of medium shader, classic client, widescreen, and on and on) to keep the "expansions" "free". Faction Warfare was an expansion. why isn't it still being worked on? Oh thats right, cause it'd cost more money, and as it was given without a direct pricetag, further work on it would cost more money than it would bring in. Thats why they orphaned it and it sits in **ville. welcome to reality.
Ekrid	Posted - 2010.06.11 01:13:00 - [99] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Serpents smile Originally by: Bellum Eternus Lol. Tamagotchi indeed haha. Right on the button. PI is nothing more and nothing less then a たまごっち. Well it is less since it cannot die (yet). 't be released for another year or so. It definitely won't be ready for aThe funny (or not so funny really) thing is that I made a little tongue in cheek post a while back proclaiming that PI was the Eve equivalent of Tamagotchi and everyone flamed me and told me what a bad person I am for "complaining" about something that "wasn't even out yet". And yet here we are, aren't we? My major issue with PI is this: CCP has totally screwed up the delivery and integration of the systems between Eve, Dust514 and it's interface- PI. Dust is probably waaaay behind schedule and won winter 2010 release or even a spring 2011 release. And it most certainly won't be released ready to roll and 100% integrated with Eve when it comes out. The first release will most likely feel like an 'alpha' release due to all the bugs and integration issues that are sure to crop up. The problem here is that PI stuff in Eve won't be able to be destroyed until Dust is finally implemented, years behind schedule and with half the features originally planned. This isn't good for Eve. Dust should be completed and THEN the interface between the two games should be designed and implemented once Dust is COMPLETELY finished and off the ground/launched and well received by the console crowd. Any other effort on the part of the Eve side of the design is a waste of time until Dust is finally realized. They're putting the cart before the horse and probably doing more harm than good in the long run to Eve. Everyone says that Eve will work and PI will work without Dust, in the case that it fails. Oh really? Then how are we going to be able to destroy PI stuff without dust? And if we are, then why do we need Dust at all? As for PI doing 'damage' to Eve in the long term: just look at the botched introduction of PI with the NPC sell orders etc. I'm all for putting NPC items in the hands of players to manufacture, but let's not create yet another system where items will be farmed into virtual worthlessness by hordes of high sec players with a virtual free ride and complete safety with no possible option for an opposing player to destroy their assets. I don't understand why more people don't have a problem with this. It's poor planning on CCP's part. nail on head. Quote: The problem here is that PI stuff in Eve won't be able to be destroyed until Dust is finally implemented, years behind schedule and with half the features originally planned. The dev team motto, but you can't blame them. They know the score just as much as us. The management is ****ing it up because they're so greedy. All eve players need to buy stock in CCP and then strongarm the management into not being miserly game ruining tards.
Kern Hotha	Posted - 2010.06.11 02:08:00 - [100] I'm sure P.I. really hits the spot for people who like moving dots around on a globe and pretending to run factories. However, it's worthless to me and I wish the development time had been better spent fixing the real game.
Darek Castigatus Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel	Posted - 2010.06.11 17:23:00 - [101] Originally by: Kern Hotha I'm sure P.I. really hits the spot for people who like moving dots around on a globe and pretending to run factories. However, it's worthless to me and I wish the development time had been better spent fixing the real game. well once you run CCP im sure we can do it your way, til then please whine impotently some more. Seriously though, how many other MMOs out there do you see adding not just new content but COMPLETELY NEW WAYS TO PLAY THE GAME, especially when the game itself is seven years old. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php
David Grogan Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.12 00:18:00 - [102] so far i find PI not very interesting i have colonies on 2 planets and have yet to get it to produce anything worthwhile. most of the time the routes stop working. honestly im gonna leave PI to the spreadsheet geeks. It offers no fun and just seems to be a boring addition and an excuse for spreadsheet geeks to fire up ms excel or whatever the openoffice version is more often. SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P
Gordon Fell	Posted - 2010.06.12 01:15:00 - [103] Originally by: David Grogan so far i find PI not very interesting i have colonies on 2 planets and have yet to get it to produce anything worthwhile. most of the time the routes stop working. honestly im gonna leave PI to the spreadsheet geeks. It offers no fun and just seems to be a boring addition and an excuse for spreadsheet geeks to fire up ms excel or whatever the openoffice version is more often. Nope, no spreadsheets required. It's a way of visual programming, just apply logic and intelligence. Yup.
Frozen Pyress	Posted - 2010.06.12 02:11:00 - [104] PI is somewhat interesting, although it takes 6 planets to make barely enough pos fuel to run one pos along with a long list of other flaws. I use PI mostly for the pos fuel; it's kinda nice not having to buy it from npcs anymore, although i still buy from npcs, because I can't produce anywhere near enough fast enough. PI definitely needs to be more interesting, with a lot of the bugs and other annoyances removed, before Dust 514 has any chance of getting sold. Does CCP think anyone's gonna get a group of people onto Dust 514 to protect a 10k isk mining factory? My other worry is what happens a year or so from now when npc pos fuel is pulled and most planets are empty of minerals to create pos fuel?
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.06.12 02:20:00 - [105] Originally by: Frozen Pyress I can't produce anywhere near enough fast enough. You're doing it in highsec, aren't you ? Quote: what happens a year or so from now when npc pos fuel is pulled and most planets are empty of minerals to create pos fuel? Like asteroid belts never run out of ore, the same way planets never run out of extractables, because stuff keeps popping back on a regular basis (no idea hof often for planets, but often enough). It's actually even better for planets (compared to asteroid belts, that is), they not only replenish periodically, but they also have a minimum total material present (a percentage of maximum), under which you can never go no matter how much you extract. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Frozen Pyress	Posted - 2010.06.12 02:28:00 - [106] Quote: I'm all for putting NPC items in the hands of players to manufacture, but let's not create yet another system where items will be farmed into virtual worthlessness by hordes of high sec players with a virtual free ride and complete safety with no possible option for an opposing player to destroy their assets. I don't understand why more people don't have a problem with this. It's poor planning on CCP's part. You fail to realize that their will be no high-sec and low-sec in Dust 514, so complaining that high-sec players can use PI is irrelavent. The only way to attack a planet is through Dust 514, which is exactly the same in high-sec and 0.0. Second of all, pos fuel gets consumed like crazy and there is no way 0.0 alliances could supply the need to keep all of Eve's poses running. It would only turn into the moon mining senario where all the good moon mins are only in one system.
ChickenOfDoom	Posted - 2010.06.12 02:44:00 - [107] PI = Farmville in space
Kyra Felann Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.06.12 05:20:00 - [108] Originally by: ChickenOfDoom PI = Farmville in space Thanks so much for your completely original and brilliant insight. You are the first person to make such an astute observation. Pardon me while I call up the Nobel prize committee and formally nominate you. -----SIGNATURE----- Originally by: CCP Ginger Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
onedarkeye	Posted - 2010.06.12 13:27:00 - [109] well, heres my opinion: #you don't have to do it #you don't have to keep an eye on it #you can do it whilst you do other things e.g mining, mission running etc so stop complaining
Bomberlocks Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2010.06.12 13:39:00 - [110] Originally by: Kohana Chayton I don't feel this way. I personally don't care either way about PI, what I do care about is CCP actually completing what they start. Full-filling their promises to us. And fixing things (like the UI for example) that could be better if a little time and effort were thrown it's way. Other than that, I am all for new content and new abilities, ships, things to do, etc being added to the game. This!
Grez M. Corp Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2010.06.12 15:16:00 - [111] Originally by: Ekrid Edited by: Ekrid on 11/06/2010 01:07:41 Originally by: Dogen Myestic Originally by: Ekrid Edited by: Ekrid on 10/06/2010 00:06:42 Originally by: Grez You asked a few people, that doesn't mean you asked 100% of EVE. Regardless, CCP are expanding on their vision of their game. If you don't like PI, don't use it. lol @ this ****. Every idiot who think's they're being clever says "if you dont like it dont use it". well I got news for you. the reason they could implement this is because we pay their salary. so Im supposed to pay for something Im not using and be okay with that? The cool thing is you're not paying for it. Its a free expansion. They could quite reasonably ask you to keep paying for the game in its current state (see every other commercial MMO with paid expansions). Fact is my friend, they don't charge for the expansions. You're not paying to use it. Seems to me that... If you don't like PI, don't use it! the cool thing about this you proved you're an idiot. There's no such thing as "Free". Sure, a cost is hidden in something else, that doesn't make it free. Do you really think that us paying 15$ a month is "free"? I bet you're poor in real life, since you can't seem to grasp basic concepts of labor value. the devs who make expansions are NOT doing it on their own free time for the love of the game. They're doing it because they get paid. Who pays them? Their management. Where does the management get the money? Subscribers to Eve online. They continually have cut costs (see: removal of medium shader, classic client, widescreen, and on and on) to keep the "expansions" "free". Faction Warfare was an expansion. why isn't it still being worked on? Oh thats right, cause it'd cost more money, and as it was given without a direct pricetag, further work on it would cost more money than it would bring in. Thats why they orphaned it and it sits in ville. welcome to reality. You realise they removed that stuff because of the cost of the time it spent to maintain it, not the cost in money**. If it came down to a graphics programmer (someone who can write HLSL) having to maintain a separate set of code just for one thing, instead of working on new effects, or polishing existing ones, I know what I'd choose. Plus there's the fact that not many people took advantage of those options. Maintaining something for the minority just doesn't make sense when it's not paying off. Several of your posts give off the aura that you have no idea what you're talking about. I'm a software engineer (1st degree), and am doing a games design course to hopefully go straight into game development (HLSL or senior programming pos.). I can apply many of the things I've been taught in the S/W dev. alone to the games programming side of making an MMO; you on the other hand have no experience, and are just blowing chunks as far as I'm concerned. Learn about what you preach before you preach it. If ever there was an opposite to fanboy, you're it. ---
Jekyl Eraser	Posted - 2010.06.12 15:32:00 - [112] PI is awesome untill you get things running and start the mad monkey doubleclicking. So it goes to the same category as 0.01 ISK market spam. Doubleclicking 10minutes straight... that is whats broken in PI
Black Dranzer	Posted - 2010.06.12 16:31:00 - [113] My impression of PI is a resounding "meh". At first I made money by going different routes but eventually I just set up rings of noble metal extractors on various different planets. 5 hours nets me a few million for basically no work, so that's cool I guess, but the market is unstable as all hell. It'll eventually become viable because supply and demand is a wonderfully balancing thing, but I don't expect it to be worth much in the meantime. There are some interesting gameplay elements to it, but the interface is a pain when you have mass extractors (icon, survey, cycle, confirm, icon, survey, cycle, confirm). I'm guessing that's actually intentional to a degree though, so who knows. As a further step towards a player run economy, it's a Good Thing, but as a feature, it leaves me kind of cold. I always appreciate new systems, but there are too many bigger outstanding issues to really make PI seem worth its while. What PI seems to me is first steps towards strapping Dust and Eve together. I get the feeling Incarna, when it comes out, will be much along the same lines; Not so much a thing in and of itself, but a bridge. I have the sneaking suspicion that much of the time spend producing Tyrannis was in implementing under-the-hood stuff for interfacing with Dust, which would explain why this expansion seems so paltry compared to previous ones. That said, Tyranis doesn't really have anything of interest for me. Sorry Devs. I appreciate the thought.
Jypsie	Posted - 2010.06.12 19:10:00 - [114] My experience has been as a light user, <30 minutes per day in high security space when I log on to manage before heading on to my usual gameplay activities. My current opinion on PI is that for those that truely understand the Market and Industry system in Eve that it will be a nice addition as there is money to be made, either by those who have successfuly analyzed the current situation or have enough foresight to see what will happen in a few months when the NPC orders no longer exist and the laws of supply and demand take over. Even stockpiling now will not erase the effects that will happen. Personally I'm waitng for the days when disgruntled employees start running off with frieghters full of POS fuels instead of ships to start really messing with their ex-employers. Companies based in 0.0 that have good industial backbones will benefit from the further independence from Empire Space. Individuals who have not researched or planned and have just thrown the most expensive CC they could at a random planet in high security space will be removing isk from the system and eventually getting out of the PI market when they realise it wasn't the instant cash explosion they were hoping for. Just in time for the market to finally take life of its own after the removal of NPC supply I hope. In all, I like it. One suggestion I would make would be a grouping system somewhat similar to RTS's that would allow for a quick drag-box selection of units to give commands.
Lance Hawke Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.12 19:57:00 - [115] If I can't blow it up, then it must gtfo!
Gavin Miner	Posted - 2010.06.12 20:18:00 - [116] I haven't broken even on PI yet. heck probably won't I spent about 100 million on CCs skill books and spent a couple weeks of training time getting trained. that said I can keep a medium POS fueled entirely with highsec produced materials with the couple alts doing the work. so all told I'd say its a reasonable level of payment, just don't expect L4 mission runner type income, I'd guess with care you could produce 50 million a month in profits from low sec PI work, which is chump change BUT it takes 2 minutes a day and 15 minutes once a week to pick up the materials and ferry them to highsec for sale.
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.12 20:19:00 - [117] I fear that that if any reasonable profit is in PI then bots will swarm all over it. One of the worst design decision is, that extractors are more efficient when set to a 5h cycle. That basically means that only human players having an advantage from it, are unemployed insomniacs. Of course it is no problem for a bot programmed to restart the extraction every 5h. This is one of the worst design decisions regarding gameplay. The other concern is, that PI is as dry as an excel sheet and only marginally more fun. Games like Alpha Centauri, Civilisation, Masters of Magic ll handled colonisation much better. PI has a few good ideas but it already demonstrated that it does more harm then good to the economy of EVE, so I recommend to CCP to remove the Command Centers, reimburse the players and revert all changes caused by PI and then put that thing at least for another 6 month or perhaps even a year or two back in development. Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
Juyna	Posted - 2010.06.14 06:09:00 - [118] Originally by: Grez You realise they removed that stuff because of the cost of the time it spent to maintain it, not the cost in money. If it came down to a graphics programmer (someone who can write HLSL) having to maintain a separate set of code just for one thing, instead of working on new effects, or polishing existing ones, I know what I'd choose. Plus there's the fact that not many people took advantage of those options. Maintaining something for the minority just doesn't make sense when it's not paying off. Several of your posts give off the aura that you have no idea what you're talking about. I'm a software engineer (1st degree), and am doing a games design course to hopefully go straight into game development (HLSL or senior programming pos.). I can apply many of the things I've been taught in the S/W dev. alone to the games programming side of making an MMO; you on the other hand have no experience, and are just blowing chunks as far as I'm concerned. ROFL. Listen to the real programmer guys. (like 50% of eve players aren't programmers.) Pro tip: time is money. Sounds catchy and deep hey? You may have even heard it before.
Paint Thinner Amarr The Grubs	Posted - 2010.06.14 06:10:00 - [119] Decent base tech that has no business on a live server for multiple reasons, most of which have been pointed out already. Also, while I can appreciate the need for reiteration and changes at the design level, what we have now is not even remotely similar to what was discussed at fanfest.
Delphina Noctous	Posted - 2010.06.14 06:56:00 - [120] I make my POS fuel for free. Only takes a few clicks once every 24 hours. other than that I could care less. Now I don't have to worry about leaving my area for NPC parts. If I was doing it for money I'd be ****ed. 120 000 000 isk/hour is hard to beat I agree but this was like 1 000 000 isk/hour. :(
Delphina Noctous	Posted - 2010.06.14 07:06:00 - [121] Originally by: Solomunio Kzenig Ok as someone who has actually spent the bulk of their 'EVE time' since the 8th actually engaged in PI (two chars/8 planets) I'll just throw in my 2 ISK worth. 1. Its a click fest, you could burn out your fapping arm in a week if you are not careful. 2. Interface/usability needs a bit of love, grouping extractors for example and more cycle times than than the current ones, a 12 hour one and maybe a 192 hour one (covers workdays/sleep and a week off). 3. It will get 'old' VERY quick, right now it looks and feels like a gimmick, the only way to get decent returns is to run your extractors in 30 minute cycles, you could spend all your EVE time just messing with PI, to the complete detriment of anything else in EVE. 4. Until the NPC orders are scrubbed from the market for PI goods the actual long term profitability (or not) of PI is unknown. 8 Extractors(2 each mineral) @ 5 hours is enough to run 8 P0-P1 Factories, which in turn will run four P1-P2 Factories, and one P2-P3 factory. So every hour I'm pumping out 3 P3 product. ~ 70 a day. Times 4 Planets ~ 280. So if P3 product sells at only 10,000 ISK each unit I can keep this account plexed for less than 5 hours of work over a month's time. Compared to Ice Mining which takes 15 hours. The real question is, what is this product going to sell for. After I find that out I'll let you know about PI being worth it or not.
Amaron Ghant Caldari Tritanium Space Whales Black Thorne Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.14 08:53:00 - [122] Edited by: Amaron Ghant on 14/06/2010 08:53:47 P.I? I'm currently generating enough "stuff"(tm) in highsec to run my research POS with a little left over; I've even got a few planets running in lowsec because tbh, the extraction rates of certain items in highsec leaves a lot to be desired, which is no doubt as designed. Yes you heard it here, CCP actually managed to add content to EVE that made me WANT to journey to lowsec. My only real niggle with the whole PI thing is you cant upgrade the command centre. You have to first remove the old one. Unfortunately that ALSO removes EVERYTHING, forcing you to redeploy everything again which requires more isk - not a major niggle considering the isk required - but still a niggle.
Gordon Fell	Posted - 2010.06.14 09:11:00 - [123] That upgrading is such a fail. Other than that, the market has spoken; PI haters are a bunch of mindless sheep. And they got p*wned like within 2 weeks or so?
Kinroi Alari Gallente Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2010.06.14 13:29:00 - [124] Quick thoughts after the weekend (to supplement previous post): * PI is a click-fest; I've stopped 2-3 times when my wrist grew sore. * I split my time between null sec and high sec; --- PI's been great for AFK empty hold autopiloting in high sec (I hate the new L4 couriers); and --- PI will likely be enjoyable should I get camped in-station in Providence; * In general, I like PI but hope we see grouping, etc; * This is EVE, we ain't happen if we can't: --- Call each other clueless n00bs; and --- accuse CCP of all sorts of nonsense. -- Nam Sibyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla pendere...
MasterEnt	Posted - 2010.06.14 13:54:00 - [125] Wow - the ignorance is incredible. OF COURSE the markets are not stable yet - Holy cow its only been a week. Give it time to even out. PI brings a whole new dimention to the game. Everything is frustrating when you dont understand whats going on

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