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metalravenous
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Posted - 2010.06.15 09:42:00 -
[1]
This might sound stupid or seem like a troll to some, but for those of you who enjoyed playing Starcraft, and played as the Protoss, and enjoyed using a swarm of fighters to destroy your enemies through the use of carriers....
IMO I think it would be a great addition to Eve to introduce a Light carrier class ship.
From what i have noticed there a 3 tiers of ships in each ship class, for example, The Armageddon, Apoc, and Abaddon.
So in this Case introduce a light carrier to be a T1 Light carrier, the Carrier would be T2 and SuperCarrier being T3.
*The light carrier would be able to be flown in high sec.
*Like the other 2 carriers it would not have any turret or launcher hard points. Its DPS would rely solely on the drones it could field.
* It would not be able to field fighter, or fighter bombers, just Drones.
* Have the ability to field 1 additional drone per (race?)light carrier skill level, up to a maximum of 10 drones, making its DPS compairable to the dps of other high sec class ships at their lvl 5 skill level.
*Its Special abilities would be partially based off its T2/T3 counterparts, IE, Drone dmg increase, armor resist increase, shield resist increase, armor/shield transfer ammount increase.
These are just some ideas, I know that CCP will probably never implement it, however, I am just posting it to see what others would think of it.
I know at one time CCP had a few ships that were able to field more than 5 drones, but took them out due to lag issues. But I do not think that would be the case with this ship.
Anyway, you opinions?
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Tepamina
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Posted - 2010.06.15 10:22:00 -
[2]
are you referring to a dominix?
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metalravenous
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Posted - 2010.06.15 10:25:00 -
[3]
No I am makeing refference to a different type of ship. A light Carrier, A Dominix has turret hard points that add to its DPS< whereas a Light Carriers DPS would come from its ability to use 10 drones, For example, deploying 10 Ogre II drones. This is a ship that fights ONLY with drones, like a Carrier.
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Madmi CEO
Mad Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.06.15 11:17:00 -
[4]
If in creating this ship you also create the best AFK mission runner available, then I think lag will be an issue.
If in creating this ship you do not also create the best AFK mission runner available, then people will simply continue using the Dominix, and the ship will be a good idea gone bad real fast.
This is a rough pessimistic look at things of course.
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metalravenous
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Posted - 2010.06.15 11:27:00 -
[5]
So this would just end up being a Marauder class version of the AFK Dominix, is that what you mean?
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GyokZoli
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.15 11:28:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: metalravenous
No I am makeing refference to a different type of ship. A light Carrier, A Dominix has turret hard points that add to its DPS< whereas a Light Carriers DPS would come from its ability to use 10 drones, For example, deploying 10 Ogre II drones. This is a ship that fights ONLY with drones, like a Carrier.
So you want a super Dominix with the tank of a carrier and twice the (drone) firepower? For what?
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metalravenous
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Posted - 2010.06.15 11:37:00 -
[7]
Originally by: GyokZoli
Originally by: metalravenous
No I am makeing refference to a different type of ship. A light Carrier, A Dominix has turret hard points that add to its DPS< whereas a Light Carriers DPS would come from its ability to use 10 drones, For example, deploying 10 Ogre II drones. This is a ship that fights ONLY with drones, like a Carrier.
So you want a super Dominix with the tank of a carrier and twice the (drone) firepower? For what?
Well basically a Dominix if everyone is going to compare it to that, but like i said having no other DPS than the drones themselves. A Dominix is able to produce more DPS than this ship class as this one is not able to use turrets or launchers. However, if it is a ship that would require the (Race) BS skill at 5 to train the Light carrier skill, it should be a better ship.
Just like a Marauder is a better dps/tank ship than a normal BS. A light carrier would Have slightly more dps than a BS as it would require BS to 5 to train.
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Modus Trollens
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Posted - 2010.06.15 12:45:00 -
[8]
What 'they' really need to 'do' is redesign the domi to make it not look like a turd and more like a mini carrier. But then again, if the domi wasn't so damn ugly, everyone would be flying one and we'd be playing dominix online.
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Kronos Hopeslayer
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.06.15 13:04:00 -
[9]
Alright lets play with this idea. To make it work you would need to seriously reduce its combat effectiveness if you allow this thing in highsec.
1. jump ability - gone
2. cut shields, armor, structure hps down to about 1/3 of the base carrier (still a lot more than a battleship)
3. no fighter bombers those are reserved for Super Carriers only
4. 1/2 the drone bay as the base carrier (max 10 fighters)
5. Can fit a Drone Control unit, but only have 3 (maybe 4 high slots)
6. Can not fit capital repair, or energy transfer modules, or triage.
7. 1/2 the the corporate hanger size of the base carrier
8. 1/2 the ship hanger as the base carrier, but can allow fitting services to fleet.
So what you would end up with is a Marauder type carrier. Have the base price be about 800mil.
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Mr Pentex
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Posted - 2010.06.15 13:29:00 -
[10]
Sounds lika a great idee.
I dont fly the domi, but dont they need their guns for getting agro from the right group of npc while missioning?
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Ninetails o'Cat
League of Super Evil
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Posted - 2010.06.15 13:31:00 -
[11]
Seriously, don't cross post.
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MWDrive
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Posted - 2010.06.15 13:53:00 -
[12]
You do realise that thing could have 1,6k drone dps? And that would be seriously OP. Even if you don't give it ability to use drone control units you could get 1,1k while having highs open for other nice mods. You would be able to tank lvl4 without even trying.... Do I need to go on? |
Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.06.15 13:56:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 15/06/2010 13:56:18
Originally by: MWDrive
You do realise that thing could have 1,6k drone dps? And that would be seriously OP. Even if you don't give it ability to use drone control units you could get 1,1k while having highs open for other nice mods. You would be able to tank lvl4 without even trying.... Do I need to go on?
Unless acceleration gates were specifically set not to allow ships bigger than a battleship to pass through.
I don't really like the minicarrier idea myself, but just saying from a PVE point of view it's not hard to balance...
_________________________________
Originally by: Dodgy Past
Can't see the Caldari approving of free love though.
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CAPSLOCKBROKE
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.15 14:32:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tepamina
are you referring to a dominix?
lol, so true.
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CAPSLOCK, BECAUSE SOMETIMES REGULAR FONT JUST, ISN'T, GOOD ENOUGH. |
Poses
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Posted - 2010.06.15 14:36:00 -
[15]
nope, the drone interfacing skill used to give +1 drone per level, and many ships now that have a drone dmg bonus used to get +1 drone per level. there is a reason that they changed it to the way it is now. It reduced lag, which was the principal issue.
so, in summary (i've typed this more times then i can think of). There is no role for this ship... if you want repping get a logi ship. Drone boat, get an ishtar or domi.
there is no role for a 'light carrier' so you will. never. see. it.
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Meta Knite
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Posted - 2010.06.15 16:40:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Meta Knite on 15/06/2010 16:41:45
Honestly any ship of that kind would be too OP in high sec.
What they could do is make it:
10x drones - possibly make it even T2 BC with 125 bandwith (med drones or 5 heavy you pick)
no hard points, no triage
fit 1-3 command link modules
10% drone dmg and hitpoints per lvl / 7.5% rep amount (consistent with gallente)
(this would actually probably make a perfect gallente T2 bc lol- started typing and noticed which direction it took)
Basically it would be nice to get the T2 BC hulls used and the gallente seems perfect for a minnie carrier.
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Kyo Haku
Minmatar
Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2010.06.15 16:58:00 -
[17]
This ship already exists. It's called the Dominix.
--
"Far be it from me to stand in judgment. I prefer to sit." -Stephen Colbert |
Kyle Cataclysm
Blue.
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Posted - 2010.06.15 17:09:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Kyle Cataclysm on 15/06/2010 17:08:55
It should be able to move rigged BS, salvage everthing in 250km AOE, mine twice as much as a hulk and have the agility of a frigate, too.
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.06.15 17:11:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kyo Haku
This ship already exists. It's called the Dominix.
Domi is not a dedicated drone boat. It makes a better blaster gank boat than the mega :D
TBH though a t2 domi that can fit drone control units would be nice without being too OP. Sure a domi with 10 drones could do just under 1k DPS, but a domi with rails does 1100, and a blaster domi does even more. Use DCUs instead of a natural +drones bonus and you keep it from being the uber-versatile OP drone/logistics beast that the name mini-carrier implies. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.06.15 17:24:00 -
[20]
A battleship with 1000 drone dps and all highs/mids/lows free for neuts/ewar/tank .. sounds like a smashing idea, just what the dock monkeys wanted from Santa!
And for the record, lag has not exactly improved a whole lot since the change you mention so 10 drones per ship would indeed have a most undesirable effect.
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metalravenous
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Posted - 2010.06.15 19:23:00 -
[21]
While yes the Dominix is kind of like this ship, It isnt in the same respect. This ship as I stated before would have its DPS solely based off its drones, and as i said before it would only be able to use drones, and as stated before it would be comparable to a Marauder class ship and therefore its price would be comparable to a Marauder class ship, So its use in PVP would be unlikely when you can get a much cheaper BS to do almost the same dps.
This is a Dedicated drone boat.
Concerning its tankablity, being comparable to a marauder class ship its tank would be comparable to that.
To reduce its OPness as a EWAR, RR, ETC Limit its High, Mid, Low slots to basically the same as its Higher Carrier counterparts. I personally have never seen a carrier fitted with a SW, ECM, etc. That is just stupid. That is not its intended purpose.
There are many different types of ships in eve, The role of this ship can be many, determined by the drones it uses, making this a multi-role boat. So if someone wants it to be an ECM boat.... Use ECM drone, but its limmited Mid slots would not, make it OP.
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Angie McFish
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Posted - 2010.06.15 21:19:00 -
[22]
no, Carriers are not good because of their fighters. I would like a BS sized logistics cruiser with a small maintenance bay and range bonus to remote reppers.
Also, not turrets or launchers, give it the ability to equip Drone control units but no "1 drone per lvl" bonus. I believe that's a risky bonus too, because it'll be used for afk missioning, but who cares.
Maybe give it a small corp hold, so it can carry ammo for teammates during ops, but give it a larger than normal cargo hold (maybe 800-1000m3 something)
This is what I'd like to see.
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SuperNova221
Ragnarok Rising
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Posted - 2010.06.15 21:55:00 -
[23]
Why do you need this? Your reason just seems to be because it would be cool. It doesn't seem to fit any real role, no real purpose that can't be fulfilled by existing ships with different methods. So why?
P.S. I like your face. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2010.06.15 23:52:00 -
[24]
Originally by: metalravenous
While yes the Dominix is kind of like this ship, It isnt in the same respect. This ship as I stated before would have its DPS solely based off its drones, and as i said before it would only be able to use drones, and as stated before it would be comparable to a Marauder class ship and therefore its price would be comparable to a Marauder class ship, So its use in PVP would be unlikely when you can get a much cheaper BS to do almost the same dps.
This is a Dedicated drone boat.
Concerning its tankablity, being comparable to a marauder class ship its tank would be comparable to that.
To reduce its OPness as a EWAR, RR, ETC Limit its High, Mid, Low slots to basically the same as its Higher Carrier counterparts. I personally have never seen a carrier fitted with a SW, ECM, etc. That is just stupid. That is not its intended purpose.
There are many different types of ships in eve, The role of this ship can be many, determined by the drones it uses, making this a multi-role boat. So if someone wants it to be an ECM boat.... Use ECM drone, but its limmited Mid slots would not, make it OP.
I believe something similar has been proposed before. Although only for Gallente. I, for one, am not fully opposed.
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Klazktrknuitzksalikamono
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Posted - 2010.06.16 05:07:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Klazktrknuitzksalikamono on 16/06/2010 05:07:13
10 drones sounds right, and area-usage under the same restrictions for complex areas like mWD's.
So no afk mission running :)
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Valend
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Posted - 2010.06.16 06:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: SuperNova221
Why do you need this? Your reason just seems to be because it would be cool. It doesn't seem to fit any real role, no real purpose that can't be fulfilled by existing ships with different methods. So why?
Does everything absolutely have to have a dedicated purpose? I mean, I know they want T2 ships to have roles, but... the purpose of half the ships in EVE is to blow stuff up. They justify being different by doing it in different ways, which often provides them with situational roles. But roles still intended to kill stuff.
I think the purpose of such a ship would be giving bored PVE players something bigger to fly than a battleship. Give it a bit more DPS and tank than a battleship, but make it very skill intensive, and very, very slow.
Missions might get easier, but it's not like they aren't already very easy (and heck, I would say it's the missions that need to be reworked more so than the ships intended to run them). And if someone spends that much time training for a ship they intend to use for the sole purpose of mission running, I would say it's a just reward. Give people sitting in their marauders and faction battleships something new to look forward to.
I'm not saying it's a perfect idea by any means, but personally I'd like to see some new ships. I know people complain about them not fixing current ships all the time, but some new variety would be nice.
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Valea Silpha
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.06.16 06:44:00 -
[27]
I like this idea, but I think you need to re-think a lot of this.
Personally, I would make it into a BS class combat-logistics ship, rather than calling it a mini-carrier, becuase that makes it sound... well.. wrong and indeed over powered.
So, +1 drone per level, fine by me, but maximum of 100mbit bandwidth, and no damage bonus. Thus you get ten mediums, which is not an OP amount of damage, but only 4 heavies if you wanted to go that way. That deals with any real damage overpoweredness, and excludes it from being a mission ship.
Next, racial remote rep bonus as taken from carriers. So gal and mini get shield AND armor, but not cap. The other two get cap and either shield or armor. All of them get cap use and range.
Finally, a tank bonus. Not the standard racial one. Everyone gets a resists bonus, becuase otherwise gallente/mini won't be worth using by comparison.
That gives you HP like a rokh/abaddon, which is fine, same damage as a domi using hammerheads (not crazy) and seven or eight slots for repair and cap.
Balance out the meds and lows the same way as current logistics ships, so theres enough room for tank, prop mod, ECCM etc. Gallente and mini would have room to go either way with their tank, but biased slightly by the resists. If they went shield, they could get cap stable with relays, if they went armor, they would be more reliable with ECCM and such.
That leaves you with a BS level logistics platform with the ability to deal some damage but not an uber amount. Basically its a micro carrier in performance not in flavour.
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Marie C1
Caldari Main Federal Bank Reserve
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Posted - 2010.06.16 10:07:00 -
[28]
Maybe batter T3 titan ?
Comon , stop with light carrier stuff , u got domi ><
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Hatsumi Kobayashi
D00M.
RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2010.06.16 10:15:00 -
[29]
Hey look, this idea again.
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Georn
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.16 14:02:00 -
[30]
terrible idea.
next?
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nerf metagaming, boost fun |
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.06.16 14:26:00 -
[31]
hey what an incredible idea no one has ever thought of before
"A game that is significantly nonlinear is sometimes described as being open-ended or a sandbox, and is characterized by there being no "right way" of playing the game." |
the Whitenoise
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Posted - 2010.06.16 15:18:00 -
[32]
except the op when he posted in the CSM assembly hall the exact same idea,
im now regretting devils advocating him there, if id known about the cross posting id have let the assembly hall one burn,
still this one has had much better constructive criticism
the question you have to ask yourself is what role would a light carrier have,
if it was better than a domi with insane dps from fighters and could enter empire two possibilities
if it still suffers as a cap ship for getting into missions etc etc, its merely a toy for suicide gankers and the Privateer Alliance to play with in empire (PA ARE NOT SUICIDERS but they do live in a situation where they could make use of that ship in their own way)
if it could use gates and do highsec missioning congratulations you have made the fourth ship in the line
Raven - Drake - Tengu
(yes the default mission ship)
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2010.06.16 20:37:00 -
[33]
no thanks.
if you want a drone BS train for a dominix
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Ryoko Zelin
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Posted - 2010.06.16 21:13:00 -
[34]
Hooray for bored meaningless dreams posts.
so I'll jump on this bandwagon.
I think a "light Carrier" would be a better name since the change of mothership was to relate the size difference between standard carriers and themselves to the real word ships.
that being said, I think an Orca sized Light Carrier would be more realistic than a buffed domi. That being said my description would be based on changing around the orca's stats to make it relatable.
give it a good resist bonus with a little more hull/armor/shield capacity (balanced for races) than an orca.
1000m3 standard cargo space. give it an ammunition and charges bay (like the ore bay only smaller)
No jump ability, No capital module useage.
Use 3 gang links simultaneously
Can use drone control units (cpu/powergrid bonus to allow fitting w/o having to give the ship massive ammounts of cpu/powergrid)
maybe a small bonus to drone hitpoints/damage. like 10% per level or something.
(NO Fighters)
as for a role for such a ship:
1.Being able to use gates, makes roaming with them easier for the logistically challenged fledgling corps.
2.Being cheaper than a standard carrier makes them more feesable to use more often in low sec/0.0 camps/roams. Having a cheaper cap ship means more cap ships, which means more targets, and more semi-juicy killmails (both using and losing it)
Potential OP comments/concerns
Highsec usage. ganking machine, maybe, but the dps per isk spent on the ship itself would be poor and it'd be stupid to waste a capship in a suicide run when you can do more damage for less isk in a BS.
(Major Concern) Bully corps. Having bully corps now have access to capital ships for jita station hugging would be rather annoying. the isk/damage ratio is poor but as a support platform with logistics and tanking ability it would definatly cause some trouble.
AFK mission boat. Add more acceleration gates and make them not allow cap ships.
problem solved....ish
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Waruq Torrema
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Posted - 2010.06.16 21:28:00 -
[35]
Love the idea, where do i sign? :P
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Kryssare
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Posted - 2010.06.16 22:39:00 -
[36]
I like starcraft, but i do prefer zealots over carriers. Swords are much more manly.
Can I have a cookie?
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SevenOfSix
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Posted - 2010.06.16 22:48:00 -
[37]
Drones in missions annoy me but...
How about letting Marauders use the drone control unit things? To fit 5 they would have to give up two of their bonused weapons, and then with only a 75 bandwidth that will be 5 mediums and 5 lights max. |
Azrael Darkwynd
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Posted - 2010.06.17 02:37:00 -
[38]
Going to add my 2 cents here
I think the big problem with what being proposed is the not the number of drones but the dps and afk potential. (well for game play mechanics, numbers affect lag)
What could be done is looking at making the 'light carriers' the T2 version of the Tier 2 Battlecruisers. Have the ships start at 50-75 bandwidth, able to fit a single gang booster, a small corp hangar (for ammo), and no hard points in highs.
For skill levels:
BC levels ranged to remote repper bonuses similar to logistic ships
T2 skill level change to +1 drone useable and +10 drone bandwidth, maybe also a racial based defense bonus or drone control range bonus
At lvl5 this would allow 10 medium/small drones or 5 heavy/sentry
Have the ships keep typical BC sig so they are easy to hit so they relay on tank instead of avoidance for survival.
This would make the ship good versus smaller targets (cruisers and smaller) and decent against BC and BS, but really probably unable to solo too much. It would be a strong support ship however being able to field 10 small/medium support drones along with being able to help rep fleet mates.
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metalravenous
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Posted - 2010.06.17 10:13:00 -
[39]
The boat could serve many roles, based on what drones you use. It could be an ECM boat through the use of ECM drones, it could be a tackling boat through the use of Stasis drones, it could be a dps boat through the use of T2 heavy drones, shield repping drones, armor repping drones. There are a lot of different drones, why not make a dedicated Drone boat?. basically having a ship that has more that one use in both combat and fleet logistics.
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metalravenous
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Posted - 2010.06.17 10:35:00 -
[40]
Basically it can be a fail safe boat that is useful in changing battle situations. Able to do decent DPS when needed and not TOO much dps as to out dps battleships(remembering that its DPS is destructable), able to pick up on ECM when ecm fleet support is lost( at the expense of dps, as you would have less dps drones on the field using ECM drones in its place).
To further Balance the ship, limit its drone bay to between 600-800m3, to avoid the use of fighter drones, and to give it enough room to have 2 types of roles in its drone bay with a little space left over for back ups, IE DPS/ECM, armor repair/shield repair, etc.
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Fernous
Gallente
Section Eight LLC
Omega Vector
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Posted - 2010.06.17 11:01:00 -
[41]
Combat Orca, Amirite?
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Tronjay the'3rd
Caldari
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.06.17 11:22:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Fernous
Combat Orca, Amirite?
indeed, add some drone bonusses to ship specs and you have a Light empire carrier.
Anyway, let CCP balance existing ships first before adding new ones.
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Antarea Starfallis
Caldari
Farsight Systems
Omega Vector
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Posted - 2010.06.17 12:06:00 -
[43]
Love the idea, but until CCP makes droneboats less of an AFK affair, it'd be way too overpowered in missions. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea and I flew my Domi like a mini-carrier. To me, the drone boats are like pet classes for Eve, but once you hit BS class ships, drones are frigate deterents for just about anyone.
The only way they could legitimize the droneboat class of ships for each empire would be to have an innate nerf to the drones effectiveness (kinda like the destroyers turret nerf). Add in some security against drones being a simply AFK issue and combine in some of the other balance ideas previously mentioned and its a good idea. You aren't the only one who wants to see this happen, so don't get dishearted by all the naysayers. Fly safe.
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Proteus Maximus
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2010.06.17 13:00:00 -
[44]
I have posted the same question in the past. After a brutal education I saw the light. At no time ever should there be a high sec mini cap or carrier. As posted by countess more experienced players than I balance would be a nightmare.
I will say (flame away) A mini cap sized logistics/fleet defense escort carrier "may" be a viable option for low & Null sec.
Picture a battle ship size vessel sporting anti missile close in auto cannon & barrage flack style gunnery defensive batteries UNABLE to target other ships. Add a capital repair & 400m3 drone bay 125bw with only logistics drones being able to be loaded. I wish I was able to elaborate more but I am not a cap pilot yet and don't fully understand how to properly balance it. Feel free to add to it's capability or subtract cap pilots.
It just seems a ship like this would free carriers and super carriers to do what they where intended..Kill Kill Kill.
You may now lever my head and parade it though the streets
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