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DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
7
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Posted - 2012.07.17 23:13:00 -
[31] - Quote
We are discussing such an idea in the Missions and Complex Forum.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=131724
Basically we are discussing opening up Fringe Space in a solar system. Fringe Space is the space in each solar system where you burn out so far and want to keep going but for what purpose?
If we can get CCP to add Fringe Space to all solar systems where the security status of Fringe Space is 0.0 and interconnects ALL solar systems then new systems in EvE would be created. |
Busta Rock
The DawnSoarers
11
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Posted - 2012.07.18 05:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
cross posted from the fringe exploration thread:
easier option.
back in the original EvE lore, it was stated that all star systems that were capabel of using stargates were in fact the primary stars of multi-star systems - ie every gated system in the eve universe has at least one distant stellar companion out 1000au or more. how about opening up those far companion stars to players?
what I'm thinking is this:
these systems would be accessible via warp (from the primary where the gates are) or cyno jump only. warping to one would take a VERY long warp, possibly with multiple stops for cap recharge, or the fitting of several capacitor batteries in the mid slots.
while all such systems would be effectively 0.0 space (CONCORD doesnt fly out that far), sov would not be permitted over far companion stars to low-sec or high sec systems, and would be covered by sov of the system primary in 0.0. stations would be prohibited however because the stellar environments of distant companions can be somewhat... unstable.
because of the substantial lag of communications due to distance, local in the space around these distant companions would be either delayed or work as current WH local does.
you want fringe space? how's THAT? |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
288
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Posted - 2012.07.18 08:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
+1 the idea.
As an idea of story line, the new region is actually a newly discovered Sansha Colony. A place where they are launching their incursions from. The region itself is isolated for many reasons and far from jump range of any other region in New Eden.
All the stations will be sansha, all the gates will be sansha. Its only accessable from active incursion sites in low/nullsec where the Supercarrier has spawned. This will make logistics to New Eden a pain, and promote self sufficiency. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
294
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Posted - 2012.07.18 08:16:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ohh Yeah wrote:Yeah I honestly believe that doubling or tripling the amount of 0.0 space would be a good move.
It'd be too much space for the current power blocs to hold - they'd overextend themselves like the Romans or whatever. There would be more smaller entities holding smaller chunks of space, and the 0.0 population would be significantly less dense. I think less density is a good thing, as it promotes small-gang PvP and combats blobiness.
Presently, any major alliance can deploy a full-scale supercapital fleet to any region of 0.0 with a day's warning, and then actually move those ships in two hours or so. If you doubled the amount of 0.0 space, this would be more difficult, and small fringe, ghetto regions of space with small groups holding two or three systems would arise.
I think it would be more exciting to have a group of 100 people defending your 3 systems on the edge of space from another equally small group, rather than sitting and hoping that the CFC or whatever doesn't dogpile you out of your space.
As for your suggestions, I don't think new space needs to have limited supers/capitals/POSes. The 0.0 you're "remembering" is still from a time with capitals, but it was before 0.0 reached the population it has now. Then, a 700 man fight was a big deal. Now, both sides can each field 700 in about any timezone. Capitals and supers make for interesting content when they aren't so tightly concentrated. The population of EVE (especially those living in 0.0) has expanded rapidly, but the space they occupy has not. This has resulted in ******, un-fun blobs because people are so tightly-packed.
Totally agree. A new type of space isn't necessary, just double the diameter of the EVE cluster and make stations destructible. Death to 0.0 urban sprawl! Also you should probably re-work the way ihub upgrades work but that should probably be a thread of its own.
I, too, really miss the way 0.0 used to feel remote and sparsely populated. Now it feels like you can't go more than two jumps in nullsec without finding another station system full of ratters. Remember when there were only a handful of stations per region and ratters / miners / whatever were all spread out across these lonely expanses of space rather than clustering into station systems?
Better days. |
Jafit
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
292
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Posted - 2012.07.18 08:43:00 -
[35] - Quote
Busta Rock wrote:you want fringe space? how's THAT?
I think that this idea makes no sense, is unrelated to the thread, and adds nothing new to the game.
Features & Ideas Discussion
Ganthrithor wrote:Totally agree. A new type of space isn't necessary, just double the diameter of the EVE cluster and make stations destructible. Death to 0.0 urban sprawl! Also you should probably re-work the way ihub upgrades work but that should probably be a thread of its own.
I, too, really miss the way 0.0 used to feel remote and sparsely populated. Now it feels like you can't go more than two jumps in nullsec without finding another station system full of ratters. Remember when there were only a handful of stations per region and ratters / miners / whatever were all spread out across these lonely expanses of space rather than clustering into station systems?
Better days.
The logistical challenges of getting out to a ring of regions further out than current nullsec are only going to favour the existing nullsec powers rather than giving anyone else a chance to get established. You still have their blobs and their supercaps to contend with.
The introduction of the drone regions didn't exactly accomplish much. All that happened was a big Russian power bloc were able to establish themselves there and build supers without getting bothered by anyone, before steamrolling the old NC which was already rotting from the inside.
Adding new regions in this cluster has been done and it hasn't fixed anything because you still have the problems caused by supercapsm, blobs, and building stations everywhere. We need a separate cluster without supercaps. |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
288
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Posted - 2012.07.18 09:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
Busta Rock wrote: because of the substantial lag of communications due to distance, local in the space around these distant companions would be either delayed or work as current WH local does.
Evelopedia Article: FTL communications wrote:The process was thus the following: A byte of information is mapped on an initial condition of the logistic map leading to a chaotic attractor. This noisy sequence is then used to modulate the measurements done on a sequence of entangled particles. At the same time on the other side, measurements are made on the particles and a noise sequence is extracted. Maximum entropy analysis is then done to determine the initial condition from which this series has been generated and thus map it back to a given byte of information. Note that in this case, the noisy sequence sent is totally uncorrelated to the one measured. What they do have in common is to be from the same chaotic attractor, and that is the information that actually gets transmitted instantly, regardless of distance.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/FTL_communications
Clearly another lame excuse is needed.
Local is generated by the information cataloged by the stargate that you pass through when you enter a system. Lets say that the dust clouds seperating the two stars cause a momentary black out period and effectively cut off you communications linked with the stargate network for a few seconds, dropping your data from local. Simply broadcasting/transmitting will reconnect you to the nearest stargate.
Personally I think that it should be this way when you enter via WH or Cyno and that your are only put into local chat if you show up on grid with a stargate or station, or transmit on the local frequency.
Gerrick |
Paikis
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
77
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Posted - 2012.07.18 09:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
A new region of space has been discovered, un-touched by anyone until now. 1,000 new systems without any NPC anything.
A cloud of cosmic radiation has made this new region unstable, making jump drives unusable. Also, due to the nature of the radiation, the only way to get into the region is through a giant experimental acceleration gate that will fling you into a random system on the fringes of this new region. It's a one-way trip.
Sounds good to me. |
HalfArse
SQUIDS.
7
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Posted - 2012.07.18 12:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
one way trip stuff is crap - however an enthusiastic +1 to new 0.0 space with no caps and no building stations and VERY few conquerable ones.
Should be alot of routes to the new space (ALOT) and not just into existing 0.0 but also to lowsec, high sec etc etc - spam entrances everywhere to make defence very hard - forcing corps allainces to guard the space they actually use and live in rather than owning massive expanses of stuff they dont really want just cos they can. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
294
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Posted - 2012.07.18 13:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
I think station sprawl could be fixed by letting outposts be exploded.
0.0 just needs more space and a better system for distributing resources to prevent tons of people being crammed into small spaces.
Personally I think it would be awesome (though possibly technically un-feasible) to extend the cluster by such a large factor that it would take appreciable time to be crossed even with jump drives. Currently it's almost impossible to get more than a few JDC V carrier jumps of anywhere else. The galaxy just isn't very big.
If CCP wanted to discourage blobbing / increase the amount of time required to move caps they could simply make the "spiral arms" of the galactic extension farther apart than they are in the existing part, creating voids between them that are too large for capital jumps (or at least supercap ones) and forcing big ships to travel a long route around them. |
Jafit
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
295
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Posted - 2012.07.18 15:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:I think station sprawl could be fixed by letting outposts be exploded.
I'm all for station explosions, but again that very strongly favours supercaps and blobs, as do all other structure shooting based activities.
Ganthrithor wrote:If CCP wanted to discourage blobbing / increase the amount of time required to move caps they could simply make the "spiral arms" of the galactic extension farther apart than they are in the existing part, creating voids between them that are too large for capital jumps (or at least supercap ones) and forcing big ships to travel a long route around them.
So you can have supers and sov in your own region and sit comfortably knowing that you're very hard for hostile supers to get anywhere near you? How is anyone supposed to invade you?
Also, again, we have already tried having regions of space separated by gaps of space. The drone regions are completely surrounded by void, the only ways in are through Cache or Great Wildlands with a JDC5 titan |
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Lharanai
Empyrean Guard IMPERIAL LEGI0N
190
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Posted - 2012.07.18 15:57:00 -
[41] - Quote
"I propose a new starcluster in Eve, separate from New Eden and Wormhole space:
A cluster of similar size to New Eden"
I really like your idea....but I see one problem as I have to admit "Malcanis Law" seems to be the only constant in the development of EVE. In my opinion ONE new cluster would not work because the big blocks would move in within hours. But maybe if you add hundreds of tiny deadspace clusters.....wait this is BS....I still like your Idea but you are fighting symptoms not the illness by itself....the problem is not new space....fly around in null, its empty, the problem is the projection of force via jumpbridges which makes null small.
Instead of creating new space to escape the imbalance I would prefer if CCP would work on the imbalance. To make that clear I do not want to get rid of SC or Jumpbridge capabilities, but their should be more restrictions to JB in regard of time, nullsec IS large and it should not be POSSIBLE (I do not use the term EASY here) to travel through is fast as you can atm (depending on adequate logistics).
Seriously, don't take me serious, I MEAN IT...seriously |
Jafit
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
296
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Posted - 2012.07.18 16:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
Lharanai wrote:"I propose a new starcluster in Eve, separate from New Eden and Wormhole space:
A cluster of similar size to New Eden"
I really like your idea....but I see one problem as I have to admit "Malcanis Law" seems to be the only constant in the development of EVE. In my opinion ONE new cluster would not work because the big blocks would move in within hours. But maybe if you add hundreds of tiny deadspace clusters.....wait this is BS....I still like your Idea but you are fighting symptoms not the illness by itself....the problem is not new space....fly around in null, its empty, the problem is the projection of force via jumpbridges which makes null small.
Instead of creating new space to escape the imbalance I would prefer if CCP would work on the imbalance. To make that clear I do not want to get rid of SC or Jumpbridge capabilities, but their should be more restrictions to JB in regard of time, nullsec IS large and it should not be POSSIBLE (I do not use the term EASY here) to travel through is fast as you can atm (depending on adequate logistics).
Established power blocs couldn't rush in and claim it all because it would only be accessible through unstable wormholes. It's the same reason large power blocs haven't rushed in and claimed all of W-space either, it's simply not feasible. A lot of them do have a presence in W-space, but they definitely can't bring their power to bear from the other side of a wormhole that spawns randomly around the universe. The same logistical challenges and restrictions should hopefully limit their influence in a new starcluster.
As for your ideas, let me tell you about the time I was in a fleet that got a titan bridge chain from Curse to Tenerifis for a fight, with no JBs involved. If you gimp JBs (again) you make it so only titan owners can force-project, whereas with JBs any level of alliance can move around and defend their own territory.
I don't know how to undo the damage caused by introducing supercaps, all I know is that I don't like them and it'd be easier to just have a fresh start. |
Lharanai
Empyrean Guard IMPERIAL LEGI0N
190
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 20:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
"I don't know how to undo the damage caused by introducing supercaps, all I know is that I don't like them and it'd be easier to just have a fresh start."
100% agreement with you here, in regard of gimping JB I do NOT mean to reduce the range or make them more expensive I was literally speaking about TIME so that it is not an instant transport. In regard of Titan chains....reduce the usability to Blackops :). I really like your Ideas but when I look at nullsec and how empty most of the systems are I cannot believe that adding space would really solve problems. Seriously, don't take me serious, I MEAN IT...seriously |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
361
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Posted - 2012.07.18 21:03:00 -
[44] - Quote
Jafit wrote:I don't think it's hypocritical, it's more self-critical. I posted on my main to demonstrate that even those belonging to entities that are currently 'winning' nullsec can still recognise that there's something wrong with the game. I've only been in nullsec for a few months, but I'm pretty much there to stay and I can agree with this perspective. EVE's 4th of July Fireworks |
Jafit
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
297
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Posted - 2012.07.18 21:54:00 -
[45] - Quote
Lharanai wrote:"I don't know how to undo the damage caused by introducing supercaps, all I know is that I don't like them and it'd be easier to just have a fresh start."
100% agreement with you here, in regard of gimping JB I do NOT mean to reduce the range or make them more expensive I was literally speaking about TIME so that it is not an instant transport. In regard of Titan chains....reduce the usability to Blackops :). I really like your Ideas but when I look at nullsec and how empty most of the systems are I cannot believe that adding space would really solve problems.
Nullsec was mostly empty long before supercaps and jumpbridges, because most nullsec systems are worthless and provide anomalies that generate income that's in line with level 1/2 missions in highsec. Everyone is sitting at the regional market hub or in the handful of decent ratting systems. All the 'empty' systems are actually probably stuffed with POSes mining R32 or R64 moon minerals which actually allow you to pay the bills for all your infrastructure. a JB costs
I don't think that adding an arbitrary timesink to using JBs or titan bridges is going to do anything but annoy people. |
Katie Frost
Asgard. Exodus.
73
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Posted - 2012.07.18 23:55:00 -
[46] - Quote
Jafit wrote: Established power blocs couldn't rush in and claim it all because it would only be accessible through unstable wormholes. It's the same reason large power blocs haven't rushed in and claimed all of W-space either, it's simply not feasible. A lot of them do have a presence in W-space, but they definitely can't bring their power to bear from the other side of a wormhole that spawns randomly around the universe. The same logistical challenges and restrictions should hopefully limit their influence in a new starcluster.
As for your ideas, let me tell you about the time I was in a fleet that got a titan bridge chain from Curse to Tenerifis for a fight, with no JBs involved. If you gimp JBs (again) you make it so only titan owners can force-project, whereas with JBs any level of alliance can move around and defend their own territory.
I don't know how to undo the damage caused by introducing supercaps, all I know is that I don't like them and it'd be easier to just have a fresh start.
So, you are saying that a power bloc hosting 10,000 members and owning vast areas of 0.0... the architects of high-sec ganking, high-sec trade hub raids and other interesting shenanigans, would not be able to dedicate but a fraction of their manpower to find the appropriate wormhole(s) and deploy, oh idk... 1000 drakes in this new region, if not just to screw with this new addition to EvE?
I agree with the premise behind your proposal, but I would rather see changes to the current mechanics of EvE here and now - which I agree, are unlikely - than try and add something in, which may end up being as easily exploited as the current supercap/Sov aspects of the game.
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Ohh Yeah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
205
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Posted - 2012.07.19 04:51:00 -
[47] - Quote
Clearly there is a problem when members of PL, Goons, and TEST all agree that additional space is needed, and that blobs with supercap proliferation aren't fun gameplay. |
Lord Zim
1027
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Posted - 2012.07.19 10:11:00 -
[48] - Quote
Those of you who seem to insist JBs are a huge power projection tool, regularly used to project power from one end of the eve universe to the other: you're wrong. |
Jafit
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
297
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 11:22:00 -
[49] - Quote
Katie Frost wrote:So, you are saying that a power bloc hosting 10,000 members and owning vast areas of 0.0... the architects of high-sec ganking, high-sec trade hub raids and other interesting shenanigans, would not be able to dedicate but a fraction of their manpower to find the appropriate wormhole(s) and deploy, oh idk... 1000 drakes in this new region, if not just to screw with this new addition to EvE?
Closer to 30,000 actually.
It really depends on how the wormhole connections to the new frontier cluster were to work in terms of their maximum allowable jump mass, total allowable mass, and where they spawn.
For example the wormhole connections to the new cluster spawned in highsec and lowsec might only be big enough to let through a few cruisers or battlecruisers, and holes spawned in nullsec could only big enough to let through a few battleships. You have to go all the way through w-space and find a C6 wormhole leading to the new frontier regions that would spawn a wormhole big enough to let a Drake blob through. Afaik from current wormhole mass limits, I'd estimate that at best you'd only have enough mass to allow a modest 200 man Drake blob through, and that'd take a lot of effort.
The CFC does simple tactics, it's not good at complicated things en-mass. Leading a Drake blob on a pilgrimage through several wormhole systems to the new starcluster would be akin to the Israelites wandering the desert for 40 years, except DaBigRedBoat is Moses, and he won't give you the warp-in on the next wormhole until everyone in the fleet follows him on Twitter. |
Veinnail
FinFleet Raiden.
26
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Posted - 2012.07.20 04:49:00 -
[50] - Quote
New regions of space on the other side of wormholes, PERIOD |
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Mechael
Ouroboros Executor Collective
171
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Posted - 2012.07.20 05:15:00 -
[51] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote: So basically a 2nd server where things aren't FUBAR.
Pessimistic rant below. Don't read if you don't want to read pessimism.
The truth is that every great MMOPG was actually an interation of the preceeding MMOPG. The next developer looks back and sees all the mistakes of its predecessors, corrects or throws away what was bad, and keeps and expands what was good. The new product is a better game and usually more successful that the last.
Some would say that CCP is trying to do that with their expansions, but a problem is that some of the mistakes of the game are so big and have been in for so long that CCP doesn't have the gumption to make the big, core rage-quit changes that would be needed. For example, CCP should probably completely erase supercapitals from the game as a mistake. Its fears the rage-quits of players, that spent thousands of hours skilling, too much to do so however.
The result are three possibilities 1) we hope that someone in CCP has the gaul to withstand the rage-quits and make the needed slashes completely reversing the mistakes of the past...not likely at this point. 2) we hope that a competitor developer surfaces that has just as much graphical expertise (Eve's graphics are the best in the world IMHO) and makes an alternative to Eve with lessons learned from Eve's mistakes... no one even on the horizon atm. 3) CCP snails along with tweaks that don't really make a difference and hopes that after 10 more years of thousands of perpetual tweaks they somehow eventually arrive to where they initially intended... where we are at now.
yk
Sigh. If there was ever anything that CCP needed to be :fearless: about, it's removing fast-travel from EVE. Well, and getting rid of microtransactions. Both are essential, and both are sadly very unlikely. Makes me wanna cry a little. Whether or not you win the game matters not. -áIt's if you bought it. |
Mechael
Ouroboros Executor Collective
171
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Posted - 2012.07.20 05:25:00 -
[52] - Quote
Jafit wrote:without supercaps.
This is the important part. The extra systems part is just the icing. EVE changed for the worse when Red Moon Rising hit. Whether or not you win the game matters not. -áIt's if you bought it. |
Theta Eridani
SON OF RAVANA
1
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Posted - 2012.07.20 06:51:00 -
[53] - Quote
Veinnail wrote:New regions of space on the other side of wormholes, PERIOD +1
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Samuella IV
SON OF RAVANA
14
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Posted - 2012.07.20 06:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
Veinnail wrote:New regions of space on the other side of wormholes, PERIOD +1
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MintyRoadkill
Dovahkiin. Rebel Alliance of New Eden
0
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Posted - 2012.07.24 02:19:00 -
[55] - Quote
I disagree that we need another 5,000 star cluster, but i think that the space in the Northeast part of the map should be filled in a bit more, the area past Jove Space, hopefully allowing another Powerbloc to form (perhaps around S2N as the leader, or some other random mid-large size alliance) giving the current 0.0 landscape more varied "nations." The biggest problem with the powerblocs now is that the two biggest alliance are on the same side. Or, at least, were. |
Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc. Armada Assail
27
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Posted - 2012.07.25 14:20:00 -
[56] - Quote
Manar Detri wrote:Kyle Ward wrote:Sweet Baby Jesus add another 5000 systems?! Do you actually want to see another human being again...? I bet he's a miner! On a serious note, there was sometime ago a suggestion of creating systems that were reachable through wormhole space only. In small scale these kind of regions or systems would propably be fun, but on top of that there'd really need to be a lot of entry points from wormhole space, and the regions/systems would really need to be easily maneuverable rather than eaasily defendable.
I like this idea soooooooo much! |
Obam Usan
Alpha Syndicate Masters of Flying Objects
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 06:04:00 -
[57] - Quote
good idea, good points raised, but maybe next time OP could try to come off a little less mad |
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