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Jafit
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
284
   |
Posted - 2012.07.17 15:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Remember when Eve hadn't been ruined by supercapitals?
Remember when nullsec regions only had 3 conquerable stations if you were lucky?
Remember when nullsec was called 0.0 (zero-zero)?
Well I do remember, and I may be looking back at my early days in Nullsec through rose-tinted glasses, but I miss those simple times.
I'd like to create a completely new starcluster in Eve where some of the old rules of 0.0 can be revived to facilitate small to mid scale territorial conflict. A land without supercap blobs, without 56 station timers to grind through to capture a region (I'm looking at you CVA), a land without massive power blocs taking 2 regions in 18 days with no credible resistance.
I enjoyed my time in Huzzah Federation in 2006. Brawling with Firmus Ixion in Western Catch, later hoping that Lotka Volteera would come and help us when the BoB war machine inevitably trundled up our driveway... Ah, Memories. A simpler time, before power blocs like Goonswarm and TEST BoB ruined small conflicts among small alliances, before supercap blobs ruined the game for everyone and made it impossible for smaller entities to take space in nullsec.
In games and real life, when things get bad there's always a set of people who want to find greener pastures elsewhere rather than trying to fix the deep rooted problems they find where they are. Currently people have to look for another game, but we should make it so they don't need to, there should be a greener pasture within Eve. Nullsec is quite broken, and Wormholes are hard to live in and you're logisticaly dependant on New Eden's resources. There needs to be something in the middle where players can be self sufficient.
I propose a new starcluster in Eve, separate from New Eden and Wormhole space:
- A cluster of similar size to New Eden
- 100% nullsec.
- Conquerable stations scattered around
- No buildable outposts
- No jumpbridges
- No supercaps (maybe even no capitals or cynos at all?).
- Ihub upgradable starsystems would be okay.
- Accessible only via unstable wormholes (to hopefully negate the blobbing power of current nullsec superpowers)
- Allow ice and moon mining to promote self-sufficiency (unlike W-space)
Development time and cost? - The New Eden cluster map looks like the result of a crack spider orgy because it was randomly generated back when CCP consisted of 5 guys. I'm sure they can randomly generate another one.
Server resources needed to track an entirely new cluster of starsystems? - I don't know, but I'm not exactly asking for this to be implemented this winter, it could be planned for.
What about the canonical explanation for having conquerable stations in a hitherto undiscovered cluster, and tying it in with the existing lore? - IDGAF, make something up. |
Shameless Avenger
264
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 15:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
I would support no jumpdrives (capitals, jump freighters, black ops, etc) if you design the regions with no chokepoints. Deal?
"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro" ~ The Story of the Ninja |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
699
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 15:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jafit wrote:I'd like to create a completely new starcluster in Eve where some of the old rules of 0.0 can be revived to facilitate small to mid scale territorial conflict. A land without supercap blobs, without 56 station timers to grind through to capture a region (I'm looking at you CVA), a land without massive power blocs taking 2 regions in 18 days with no credible resistance. A simpler time, before power blocs like Goonswarm and TEST BoB ruined small conflicts among small alliances, before supercap blobs ruined the game for everyone and made it impossible for smaller entities to take space in nullsec.
Quote:Jafit
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Hypocrite much? |
D3F4ULT
135
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 15:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Shameless Avenger wrote:I would support no jumpdrives (capitals, jump freighters, black ops, etc) if you design the regions with no chokepoints. Deal?
I bet the Persian army wishes they could.have had the same deal with Sparta.
Creator of CCP ZULU - Incarna : Pants Online ( http://youtu.be/AObrlCf3Dcs ) |
Kyle Ward
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
234
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 15:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sweet Baby Jesus add another 5000 systems?! Do you actually want to see another human being again...?
The Sandbox, you're playing it wrong! |
Ohh Yeah
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
188
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 15:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yeah I honestly believe that doubling or tripling the amount of 0.0 space would be a good move.
It'd be too much space for the current power blocs to hold - they'd overextend themselves like the Romans or whatever. There would be more smaller entities holding smaller chunks of space, and the 0.0 population would be significantly less dense. I think less density is a good thing, as it promotes small-gang PvP and combat blobiness.
Presently, any major alliance can deploy a full-scale supercapital fleet to any region of 0.0 with a day's warning, and then actually move those ships in two hours or so. If you doubled the amount of 0.0 space, this would be more difficult, and small fringe, ghetto regions of space with small groups holding two or three systems would arise.
I think it would be more exciting to have a group of 100 people defending your 3 systems on the edge of space from another equally small group, rather than sitting and hoping that the CFC or whatever doesn't dogpile you out of your space.
As for your suggestions, I don't think new space needs to have limited supers/capitals/POSes. The 0.0 you're "remembering" is still from a time with capitals, but it was before 0.0 reached the population it has now. Then, a 700 man fight was a big deal. Now, both sides can each field 700 in about any timezone. Capitals and supers make for interesting content when they aren't so tightly concentrated. The population of EVE (especially those living in 0.0) has expanded rapidly, but the space they occupy has not. This has resulted in ******, un-fun blobs because people are so tightly-packed. |
Manar Detri
22
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 15:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kyle Ward wrote:Sweet Baby Jesus add another 5000 systems?! Do you actually want to see another human being again...?
I bet he's a miner!
On a serious note, there was sometime ago a suggestion of creating systems that were reachable through wormhole space only. In small scale these kind of regions or systems would propably be fun, but on top of that there'd really need to be a lot of entry points from wormhole space, and the regions/systems would really need to be easily maneuverable rather than eaasily defendable. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
New Eden Asteroid Preservation Society
1940
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 15:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
How about the discovery of a region-sized pocket of gated systems in the w-space cluster? It would only be accessible via wandering connections from other wormholes, making logistics into and out of the cluster a challenge, and limiting traffic to a handful of caps at a time. Have maybe ten "abandoned sleeper stations" across the region and don't allow sov. No sov means no new outposts and no supercaps. You can cyno caps inside the region, but New Eden is too far away for a cyno to reach. Rats could be sleepers and/or sansha, or something entirely new.
It would become a hub for w-space dwellers, with its own market and ecosystem. Extended wars could be fought over territory there, spilling into the connecting w-space as it is used for shortcuts and reinforcements from k-space.
edit:
Manar Detri wrote:On a serious note, there was sometime ago a suggestion of creating systems that were reachable through wormhole space only. In small scale these kind of regions or systems would propably be fun, but on top of that there'd really need to be a lot of entry points from wormhole space, and the regions/systems would really need to be easily maneuverable rather than eaasily defendable.
It seems I'm not the only one with such an idea.
If you had say 50 systems and 75 wandering holes, then most every system in the "region" would average at least one incoming hole. If you added static outbound holes to each system, it would quickly become very hard to defend more than one or two systems.
The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Gleanerman
L-L fanclub
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 15:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Even tho I have yet to experience a lot of 0.0 I agree with the poster. I would like to add that what if every expansion ccp added fifty systems that are not on the map, and keeping with eve lore we players of eve could go out and anchor our own star gates there could be new classes of ships for this. Frigate sized deep space exploration ships, that would have jump driver to be able to jump out and set a beckon for something like a orca or roq to then jump out and set up a POS which could then be turned into a star gate once a proper gravity well is found. I also think this would need to take a while,maybe like a month? And only once star gate is set up could the system be named and show up. On the mini map |
YuuKnow
362
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 16:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jafit wrote:Remember when Eve hadn't been ruined by supercapitals? Remember when nullsec regions only had 3 conquerable stations if you were lucky? Remember when nullsec was called 0.0 (zero-zero)? Well I do remember, and I may be looking back at my early days in Nullsec through rose-tinted glasses, but I miss those simple times. I'd like to create a completely new starcluster in Eve where some of the old rules of 0.0 can be revived to facilitate small to mid scale territorial conflict. A land without supercap blobs, without 56 station timers to grind through to capture a region (I'm looking at you CVA), a land without massive power blocs taking 2 regions in 18 days with no credible resistance. I enjoyed my time in Huzzah Federation in 2006. Brawling with Firmus Ixion in Western Catch, later hoping that Lotka Volteera would come and help us when the BoB war machine inevitably trundled up our driveway... Ah, Memories. A simpler time, before power blocs like Goonswarm and TEST BoB ruined small conflicts among small alliances, before supercap blobs ruined the game for everyone and made it impossible for smaller entities to take space in nullsec. In games and real life, when things get bad there's always a set of people who want to find greener pastures elsewhere rather than trying to fix the deep rooted problems they find where they are. Currently people have to look for another game, but we should make it so they don't need to, there should be a greener pasture within Eve. Nullsec is quite broken, and Wormholes are hard to live in and you're logisticaly dependant on New Eden's resources. There needs to be something in the middle where players can be self sufficient. I propose a new starcluster in Eve, separate from New Eden and Wormhole space: - A cluster of similar size to New Eden
- 100% nullsec.
- Conquerable stations scattered around
- No buildable outposts
- No jumpbridges
- No supercaps (maybe even no capitals or cynos at all?).
- Ihub upgradable starsystems would be okay.
- Accessible only via unstable wormholes (to hopefully negate the blobbing power of current nullsec superpowers)
- Allow ice and moon mining to promote self-sufficiency (unlike W-space)
Development time and cost? - The New Eden cluster map looks like the result of a crack spider orgy because it was randomly generated back when CCP consisted of 5 guys. I'm sure they can randomly generate another one. Server resources needed to track an entirely new cluster of starsystems? - I don't know, but I'm not exactly asking for this to be implemented this winter, it could be planned for. What about the canonical explanation for having conquerable stations in a hitherto undiscovered cluster, and tying it in with the existing lore? - IDGAF, make something up.
|
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1158
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 16:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
more nulsec..
yes please
balance its contents properly this time please
My homeboys tried to warn me
But that butt you got makes me so horny |
Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
215
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 16:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
I lol'd so much due to irony overload. Also you forgot to include 'no local' in this new space utopia. Funny to see BoB still controlling your game even this long after they disbanded. |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
885
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 16:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Im not sure that is the right answer but it is an answer. I think more space IS a good idea, but as you say it needs somethign to offer to smaller groups that may also deter teh larger blocs to some degree.
What I proposed, quite a while ago now... Is that some new regions are created, but make them unusual, islands of hisec in te hmiddle of lowsec, islands of lowsec in teh middle of hisec, maybe even a small section of nullsec right in the middle of a lowsec area, unusual things.
But also... Some nullsec regions that are out of jump range from ANY other null or lowsec regions, but to add some extra unusual features, say somethign liek deadspace where cyno's dont light, cyno beacons dont work, storyline can be used to explain why these phenomena happen. Hav eregions of lowsec and nullsec where this is the case. The idea of some lost nullsec space, WAY out of range of everything hat can be reached by wormholes.
Where are those explosive/corrosive gas clouds that could hide a pirate NPC station? Where are the black market dens?
There is nothign wrong with the way the nullsec superpowers play, but there should be other options for peopel who dont want that size action.
Eve is small (due to travel capabilities) and needs to be bigger and far far more varied, with places that have some very unusual and interesting features.
Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Jafit
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
286
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 16:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
I'm liking the feedback so far.
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Hypocrite much?
I don't think it's hypocritical, it's more self-critical. I posted on my main to demonstrate that even those belonging to entities that are currently 'winning' nullsec can still recognise that there's something wrong with the game. If I'd posted on a neutral alt I'd probably just get people saying I was buthurt about not having access to nullsec, or my corp doesn't have supers or something.
Ohh Yeah wrote:As for your suggestions, I don't think new space needs to have limited supers/capitals/POSes. The 0.0 you're "remembering" is still from a time with capitals, but it was before 0.0 reached the population it has now. Then, a 700 man fight was a big deal. Now, both sides can each field 700 in about any timezone. Capitals and supers make for interesting content when they aren't so tightly concentrated. The population of EVE (especially those living in 0.0) has expanded rapidly, but the space they occupy has not. This has resulted in ******, un-fun blobs because people are so tightly-packed.
Regardless of whether capitals or supercapitals make for interesting content when they aren't blobbing, the fact remains that in our current starcluster they have been allowed to proliferate too much and are never going to be used in moderation. That's why I think would be to have a clean environment free from supercaps altogether, rather than expand our existing broken New Eden nullsec.
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:How about the discovery of a region-sized pocket of gated systems in the w-space cluster? It would only be accessible via wandering connections from other wormholes, making logistics into and out of the cluster a challenge, and limiting traffic to a handful of caps at a time. Have maybe ten "abandoned sleeper stations" across the region and don't allow sov. No sov means no new outposts and no supercaps. You can cyno caps inside the region, but New Eden is too far away for a cyno to reach. Rats could be sleepers and/or sansha, or something entirely new.
I think that this is worthy of consideration, but I'm not personally keen on the idea of a gated wormhole region because I don't like the massive logistics dependancy on New Eden's economy and resources that wormholes demand. Also currently I think there are so many empty wormholes that the only reason to fight over one is for bragging rights and to make a cool 40 minute long video. Personally I'd say leave wormholes alone, they provide a certain kind of environment and players enjoy that, I'm looking at creating yet another kind of environment modelled on territorial nullsec of old.
Marconus Orion wrote:I lol'd so much due to irony overload. Also you forgot to include 'no local' in this new space utopia. Funny to see BoB still controlling your game even this long after they disbanded.
Yes it's quite a legacy. But I can also blame the old NC for manufacturing supercaps and selling them to everyone, or blame the Russians for gunmining all those drone minerals and and building supercaps uninterrupted for ages. Mostly I blame CCP for introducing supercaps in a moment of "wouldn't it be cool" stupidity. There are many causes for our problems and they're very deep rooted, I can't be bothered trying to fix them so lets try and get away from them instead. |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
572
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 16:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kick Jafit. |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
572
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 16:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Also, inb4 move to Features and Ideas, where this idea will die an appropriate death. |
Kisumii
Bio-Tech Research
Luna Sanguinem
81
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 16:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
TLDR
More nullsec that has no capitals
Yes please |
Zimmy Zeta
Paramount Commerce
Masters of Flying Objects
1150
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 16:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
If this new nullsec was difficult to reach through a wormhole network and economically self-sufficient with no need to come back- wouldn't that be basically like opening a second shard?
Not sure if this would be too terrible, I just think that the idea is a little odd and defying one of the main ideas of eve.
On the other hand, it would be hilarious if all the mighty nullsec alliances moved away and only left the higsec carebears back, who would still be too afraid to enter the now empty "old" nullsec regions...
-.- |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
122
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 16:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
A new frontier - Pubbie 0.0 |
YuuKnow
362
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 17:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Kick Jafit.
Corpmates in Test not allowed to have their own opinions?
Anyone can adapt to any set of game mechanics even if they are fubared. This man is just trying to make the game more in line with what he calls fun.
yk |
Jafit
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
289
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 17:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:If this new nullsec was difficult to reach through a wormhole network and economically self-sufficient with no need to come back- wouldn't that be basically like opening a second shard?
Not sure if this would be too terrible, I just think that the idea is a little odd and defying one of the main ideas of eve.
On the other hand, it would be hilarious if all the mighty nullsec alliances moved away and only left the higsec carebears back, who would still be too afraid to enter the now empty "old" nullsec regions...
A second shard would be like another mirror version of our current starcluster with no interaction between them. There would definitly still be interaction and movement between the new cluster and the old, just not complete dependence like with W-space.
Charles Case wrote:A new frontier - Pubbie 0.0
:condi:
YuuKnow wrote:Corpmates in Test not allowed to have their own opinions?
We say things like that to each other a lot instead of saying things like 'o7 m8'. It's CFC code for "I fully support you and your brilliant ideas" |
Jafit
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
289
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 17:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
Also I don't want this idea to be uncontroversial, most people seem to have pretty much agreed so far. Uncontroversial ideas sink to the bottom of the forums never to be seen again.
At least it's not in the feature ideas forum. |
Danfen Fenix
140
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 17:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote:Jafit wrote:I propose a new starcluster in Eve, separate from New Eden and Wormhole space: - A cluster of similar size to New Eden
- 100% nullsec.
- Conquerable stations scattered around
- No buildable outposts
- No jumpbridges
- No supercaps (maybe even no capitals or cynos at all?).
- Ihub upgradable starsystems would be okay.
- Accessible only via unstable wormholes (to hopefully negate the blobbing power of current nullsec superpowers)
- Allow ice and moon mining to promote self-sufficiency (unlike W-space)
So basically a 2nd server where things aren't FUBAR. Pessimistic rant below. Don't read if you don't want to read pessimism. The truth is that every great MMOPG was actually an interation of the preceeding MMOPG. The next developer looks back and sees all the mistakes of its predecessors, corrects or throws away what was bad, and keeps and expands what was good. The new product is a better game and usually more successful that the last. Some would say that CCP is trying to do that with their expansions, but a problem is that some of the mistakes of the game are so big and have been in for so long that CCP doesn't have the gumption make the big, core rage-quit changes that would be needed. For example, CCP should probably completely erase supercapitals from the game as a mistake. Its fears the rage-quits of players that spent thousands of hours at this point skilling too much to do so however. The result are three possibilities 1) we hope that someone in CCP has the gaul to withstand the rage-quits and make the needed slashes completely reversing the mistakes of the past...not likely at this point. 2) we hope that a competitor developer surfaces that has just as much graphical expertise (Eve's graphics are the best in the world IMHO) and makes an alternative to Eve with lessons learned from Eve's mistakes... no one even on the horizon atm. 3) CCP snails along with tweaks that don't really make a difference and hopes that after 10 more years of thousands of perpetual tweaks they somehow arrive to where they initially intended... where we are at now. yk
A nice start would be CCP at least removing the ability to build supers any more. Let them die out themselves over time ?  That way everyone can keep what they have now, so they can't use 'losing thousands of hours' as a rage quittable excuse. It is on their head if they lose it or not then, and we'd probably see Supers die out/never used/become collectibles. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1661
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 17:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote:Emperor Salazar wrote:Kick Jafit. Corpmates in Test not allowed to have their own opinions?
Blob / zerg is a mentality even before being a game mechanic.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1661
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 17:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jafit wrote:Also I don't want this idea to be uncontroversial, most people seem to have pretty much agreed so far. Uncontroversial ideas sink to the bottom of the forums never to be seen again.
At least it's not in the feature ideas forum.
Yet.
Danfen Fenix wrote:A nice start would be CCP at least removing the ability to build supers any more. Let them die out themselves over time ? That way everyone can keep what they have now, so they can't use 'losing thousands of hours' as a rage quittable excuse. It is on their head if they lose it or not then, and we'd probably see Supers die out/never used/become collectibles.
Yes, we definitely need another T2 BPO solution.
Anyway I wholeheartedly support the OP idea (which is somewhat of a copy of what I posted a year or so ago).
Less blobs or at least bearable small ships blobs is good.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Evei Shard
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
98
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Expanding New Eden would be nice, and there are a lot of good ideas on how to do such a thing.
I personally have always liked the idea of new systems not being accessible to the current universe via stargate until a stargate is built, and that building a stargate should take months. This would require the group building it to have a solid hold on the system the gate is being built in.
Self sufficiency would be important as well, depending on how these new regions are cut off from New Eden until they open their first jump gate.
Exotic minerals (hey, remember that crap you have to mine in the newbie tutorial?) could be on the bill of materials required for building the stargates, and only found in the new systems. This would create a demand for mining and mining related equipment in the new regions.
Between the Alliance matches on Sunday this past weekend, the future of POS and POS mechanics was brought up. Some of the ideas they covered included making it easier for people to set up their own POS. Vast new regions of 0.0 could take advantage of that.
The biggest challenge I can see with it is making it self sufficient to the point that people are willing to say "hey, let's move our corp to one of the new regions". Even if you take the "power bloc" alliances out of the picture, people are still going to shy away from it if they don't have access to the things they need to replace ships that get blown up.
Profit favors the prepared |
Fiona Tsero
the Forward Initiative
Mildly Sober
11
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
Or make a one-way wormhole that lets nothing bigger than a Battleship/industrial through, and have people start a new economy on the other side.
Once you go through, you can never go back. |
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy
Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
ITT: old vet whines about sliced bread ruining civilization. |
|
ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
9
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 22:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Topic "A new frontier - Classic 0.0" moved to Features and Ideas - ISD Type40
ISD Type40
Ensign
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department |
|
Jafit
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
292
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 23:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
ISD TYPE40 wrote:Topic "A new frontier - Classic 0.0" moved to Features and Ideas - ISD Type40
OH GOD DAMN SON OF A ***** |
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 23:13:00 -
[31] - Quote
We are discussing such an idea in the Missions and Complex Forum.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=131724
Basically we are discussing opening up Fringe Space in a solar system. Fringe Space is the space in each solar system where you burn out so far and want to keep going but for what purpose?
If we can get CCP to add Fringe Space to all solar systems where the security status of Fringe Space is 0.0 and interconnects ALL solar systems then new systems in EvE would be created. |
Busta Rock
The DawnSoarers
11
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 05:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
cross posted from the fringe exploration thread:
easier option.
back in the original EvE lore, it was stated that all star systems that were capabel of using stargates were in fact the primary stars of multi-star systems - ie every gated system in the eve universe has at least one distant stellar companion out 1000au or more. how about opening up those far companion stars to players?
what I'm thinking is this:
these systems would be accessible via warp (from the primary where the gates are) or cyno jump only. warping to one would take a VERY long warp, possibly with multiple stops for cap recharge, or the fitting of several capacitor batteries in the mid slots.
while all such systems would be effectively 0.0 space (CONCORD doesnt fly out that far), sov would not be permitted over far companion stars to low-sec or high sec systems, and would be covered by sov of the system primary in 0.0. stations would be prohibited however because the stellar environments of distant companions can be somewhat... unstable.
because of the substantial lag of communications due to distance, local in the space around these distant companions would be either delayed or work as current WH local does.
you want fringe space? how's THAT? |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
288
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 08:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
+1 the idea.
As an idea of story line, the new region is actually a newly discovered Sansha Colony. A place where they are launching their incursions from. The region itself is isolated for many reasons and far from jump range of any other region in New Eden.
All the stations will be sansha, all the gates will be sansha. Its only accessable from active incursion sites in low/nullsec where the Supercarrier has spawned. This will make logistics to New Eden a pain, and promote self sufficiency. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
294
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 08:16:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ohh Yeah wrote:Yeah I honestly believe that doubling or tripling the amount of 0.0 space would be a good move.
It'd be too much space for the current power blocs to hold - they'd overextend themselves like the Romans or whatever. There would be more smaller entities holding smaller chunks of space, and the 0.0 population would be significantly less dense. I think less density is a good thing, as it promotes small-gang PvP and combats blobiness.
Presently, any major alliance can deploy a full-scale supercapital fleet to any region of 0.0 with a day's warning, and then actually move those ships in two hours or so. If you doubled the amount of 0.0 space, this would be more difficult, and small fringe, ghetto regions of space with small groups holding two or three systems would arise.
I think it would be more exciting to have a group of 100 people defending your 3 systems on the edge of space from another equally small group, rather than sitting and hoping that the CFC or whatever doesn't dogpile you out of your space.
As for your suggestions, I don't think new space needs to have limited supers/capitals/POSes. The 0.0 you're "remembering" is still from a time with capitals, but it was before 0.0 reached the population it has now. Then, a 700 man fight was a big deal. Now, both sides can each field 700 in about any timezone. Capitals and supers make for interesting content when they aren't so tightly concentrated. The population of EVE (especially those living in 0.0) has expanded rapidly, but the space they occupy has not. This has resulted in ******, un-fun blobs because people are so tightly-packed.
Totally agree. A new type of space isn't necessary, just double the diameter of the EVE cluster and make stations destructible. Death to 0.0 urban sprawl! Also you should probably re-work the way ihub upgrades work but that should probably be a thread of its own.
I, too, really miss the way 0.0 used to feel remote and sparsely populated. Now it feels like you can't go more than two jumps in nullsec without finding another station system full of ratters. Remember when there were only a handful of stations per region and ratters / miners / whatever were all spread out across these lonely expanses of space rather than clustering into station systems?
Better days. |
Jafit
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
292
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 08:43:00 -
[35] - Quote
Busta Rock wrote:you want fringe space? how's THAT?
I think that this idea makes no sense, is unrelated to the thread, and adds nothing new to the game.
Features & Ideas Discussion 
Ganthrithor wrote:Totally agree. A new type of space isn't necessary, just double the diameter of the EVE cluster and make stations destructible. Death to 0.0 urban sprawl! Also you should probably re-work the way ihub upgrades work but that should probably be a thread of its own.
I, too, really miss the way 0.0 used to feel remote and sparsely populated. Now it feels like you can't go more than two jumps in nullsec without finding another station system full of ratters. Remember when there were only a handful of stations per region and ratters / miners / whatever were all spread out across these lonely expanses of space rather than clustering into station systems?
Better days.
The logistical challenges of getting out to a ring of regions further out than current nullsec are only going to favour the existing nullsec powers rather than giving anyone else a chance to get established. You still have their blobs and their supercaps to contend with.
The introduction of the drone regions didn't exactly accomplish much. All that happened was a big Russian power bloc were able to establish themselves there and build supers without getting bothered by anyone, before steamrolling the old NC which was already rotting from the inside.
Adding new regions in this cluster has been done and it hasn't fixed anything because you still have the problems caused by supercapsm, blobs, and building stations everywhere. We need a separate cluster without supercaps. |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
288
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 09:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
Busta Rock wrote: because of the substantial lag of communications due to distance, local in the space around these distant companions would be either delayed or work as current WH local does.
Evelopedia Article: FTL communications wrote:The process was thus the following: A byte of information is mapped on an initial condition of the logistic map leading to a chaotic attractor. This noisy sequence is then used to modulate the measurements done on a sequence of entangled particles. At the same time on the other side, measurements are made on the particles and a noise sequence is extracted. Maximum entropy analysis is then done to determine the initial condition from which this series has been generated and thus map it back to a given byte of information. Note that in this case, the noisy sequence sent is totally uncorrelated to the one measured. What they do have in common is to be from the same chaotic attractor, and that is the information that actually gets transmitted instantly, regardless of distance.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/FTL_communications
Clearly another lame excuse is needed.
Local is generated by the information cataloged by the stargate that you pass through when you enter a system. Lets say that the dust clouds seperating the two stars cause a momentary black out period and effectively cut off you communications linked with the stargate network for a few seconds, dropping your data from local. Simply broadcasting/transmitting will reconnect you to the nearest stargate.
Personally I think that it should be this way when you enter via WH or Cyno and that your are only put into local chat if you show up on grid with a stargate or station, or transmit on the local frequency.
Gerrick |
Paikis
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 09:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
A new region of space has been discovered, un-touched by anyone until now. 1,000 new systems without any NPC anything.
A cloud of cosmic radiation has made this new region unstable, making jump drives unusable. Also, due to the nature of the radiation, the only way to get into the region is through a giant experimental acceleration gate that will fling you into a random system on the fringes of this new region. It's a one-way trip.
Sounds good to me. |
HalfArse
SQUIDS.
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 12:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
one way trip stuff is crap - however an enthusiastic +1 to new 0.0 space with no caps and no building stations and VERY few conquerable ones.
Should be alot of routes to the new space (ALOT) and not just into existing 0.0 but also to lowsec, high sec etc etc - spam entrances everywhere to make defence very hard - forcing corps allainces to guard the space they actually use and live in rather than owning massive expanses of stuff they dont really want just cos they can. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
294
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 13:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
I think station sprawl could be fixed by letting outposts be exploded.
0.0 just needs more space and a better system for distributing resources to prevent tons of people being crammed into small spaces.
Personally I think it would be awesome (though possibly technically un-feasible) to extend the cluster by such a large factor that it would take appreciable time to be crossed even with jump drives. Currently it's almost impossible to get more than a few JDC V carrier jumps of anywhere else. The galaxy just isn't very big.
If CCP wanted to discourage blobbing / increase the amount of time required to move caps they could simply make the "spiral arms" of the galactic extension farther apart than they are in the existing part, creating voids between them that are too large for capital jumps (or at least supercap ones) and forcing big ships to travel a long route around them. |
Jafit
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
295
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 15:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:I think station sprawl could be fixed by letting outposts be exploded.
I'm all for station explosions, but again that very strongly favours supercaps and blobs, as do all other structure shooting based activities.
Ganthrithor wrote:If CCP wanted to discourage blobbing / increase the amount of time required to move caps they could simply make the "spiral arms" of the galactic extension farther apart than they are in the existing part, creating voids between them that are too large for capital jumps (or at least supercap ones) and forcing big ships to travel a long route around them.
So you can have supers and sov in your own region and sit comfortably knowing that you're very hard for hostile supers to get anywhere near you? How is anyone supposed to invade you?
Also, again, we have already tried having regions of space separated by gaps of space. The drone regions are completely surrounded by void, the only ways in are through Cache or Great Wildlands with a JDC5 titan |
Lharanai
Empyrean Guard
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
190
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 15:57:00 -
[41] - Quote
"I propose a new starcluster in Eve, separate from New Eden and Wormhole space:
A cluster of similar size to New Eden"
I really like your idea....but I see one problem as I have to admit "Malcanis Law" seems to be the only constant in the development of EVE. In my opinion ONE new cluster would not work because the big blocks would move in within hours. But maybe if you add hundreds of tiny deadspace clusters.....wait this is BS....I still like your Idea but you are fighting symptoms not the illness by itself....the problem is not new space....fly around in null, its empty, the problem is the projection of force via jumpbridges which makes null small.
Instead of creating new space to escape the imbalance I would prefer if CCP would work on the imbalance. To make that clear I do not want to get rid of SC or Jumpbridge capabilities, but their should be more restrictions to JB in regard of time, nullsec IS large and it should not be POSSIBLE (I do not use the term EASY here) to travel through is fast as you can atm (depending on adequate logistics).
Seriously, don't take me serious, I MEAN IT...seriously |
Jafit
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
296
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 16:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
Lharanai wrote:"I propose a new starcluster in Eve, separate from New Eden and Wormhole space:
A cluster of similar size to New Eden"
I really like your idea....but I see one problem as I have to admit "Malcanis Law" seems to be the only constant in the development of EVE. In my opinion ONE new cluster would not work because the big blocks would move in within hours. But maybe if you add hundreds of tiny deadspace clusters.....wait this is BS....I still like your Idea but you are fighting symptoms not the illness by itself....the problem is not new space....fly around in null, its empty, the problem is the projection of force via jumpbridges which makes null small.
Instead of creating new space to escape the imbalance I would prefer if CCP would work on the imbalance. To make that clear I do not want to get rid of SC or Jumpbridge capabilities, but their should be more restrictions to JB in regard of time, nullsec IS large and it should not be POSSIBLE (I do not use the term EASY here) to travel through is fast as you can atm (depending on adequate logistics).
Established power blocs couldn't rush in and claim it all because it would only be accessible through unstable wormholes. It's the same reason large power blocs haven't rushed in and claimed all of W-space either, it's simply not feasible. A lot of them do have a presence in W-space, but they definitely can't bring their power to bear from the other side of a wormhole that spawns randomly around the universe. The same logistical challenges and restrictions should hopefully limit their influence in a new starcluster.
As for your ideas, let me tell you about the time I was in a fleet that got a titan bridge chain from Curse to Tenerifis for a fight, with no JBs involved. If you gimp JBs (again) you make it so only titan owners can force-project, whereas with JBs any level of alliance can move around and defend their own territory.
I don't know how to undo the damage caused by introducing supercaps, all I know is that I don't like them and it'd be easier to just have a fresh start. |
Lharanai
Empyrean Guard
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
190
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 20:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
"I don't know how to undo the damage caused by introducing supercaps, all I know is that I don't like them and it'd be easier to just have a fresh start."
100% agreement with you here, in regard of gimping JB I do NOT mean to reduce the range or make them more expensive I was literally speaking about TIME so that it is not an instant transport. In regard of Titan chains....reduce the usability to Blackops :). I really like your Ideas but when I look at nullsec and how empty most of the systems are I cannot believe that adding space would really solve problems.
Seriously, don't take me serious, I MEAN IT...seriously |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
361
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 21:03:00 -
[44] - Quote
Jafit wrote:I don't think it's hypocritical, it's more self-critical. I posted on my main to demonstrate that even those belonging to entities that are currently 'winning' nullsec can still recognise that there's something wrong with the game.
I've only been in nullsec for a few months, but I'm pretty much there to stay and I can agree with this perspective.
EVE's 4th of July Fireworks |
Jafit
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
297
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 21:54:00 -
[45] - Quote
Lharanai wrote:"I don't know how to undo the damage caused by introducing supercaps, all I know is that I don't like them and it'd be easier to just have a fresh start."
100% agreement with you here, in regard of gimping JB I do NOT mean to reduce the range or make them more expensive I was literally speaking about TIME so that it is not an instant transport. In regard of Titan chains....reduce the usability to Blackops :). I really like your Ideas but when I look at nullsec and how empty most of the systems are I cannot believe that adding space would really solve problems.
Nullsec was mostly empty long before supercaps and jumpbridges, because most nullsec systems are worthless and provide anomalies that generate income that's in line with level 1/2 missions in highsec. Everyone is sitting at the regional market hub or in the handful of decent ratting systems. All the 'empty' systems are actually probably stuffed with POSes mining R32 or R64 moon minerals which actually allow you to pay the bills for all your infrastructure. a JB costs
I don't think that adding an arbitrary timesink to using JBs or titan bridges is going to do anything but annoy people. |
Katie Frost
Asgard.
Exodus.
73
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 23:55:00 -
[46] - Quote
Jafit wrote:
Established power blocs couldn't rush in and claim it all because it would only be accessible through unstable wormholes. It's the same reason large power blocs haven't rushed in and claimed all of W-space either, it's simply not feasible. A lot of them do have a presence in W-space, but they definitely can't bring their power to bear from the other side of a wormhole that spawns randomly around the universe. The same logistical challenges and restrictions should hopefully limit their influence in a new starcluster.
As for your ideas, let me tell you about the time I was in a fleet that got a titan bridge chain from Curse to Tenerifis for a fight, with no JBs involved. If you gimp JBs (again) you make it so only titan owners can force-project, whereas with JBs any level of alliance can move around and defend their own territory.
I don't know how to undo the damage caused by introducing supercaps, all I know is that I don't like them and it'd be easier to just have a fresh start.
So, you are saying that a power bloc hosting 10,000 members and owning vast areas of 0.0... the architects of high-sec ganking, high-sec trade hub raids and other interesting shenanigans, would not be able to dedicate but a fraction of their manpower to find the appropriate wormhole(s) and deploy, oh idk... 1000 drakes in this new region, if not just to screw with this new addition to EvE?
I agree with the premise behind your proposal, but I would rather see changes to the current mechanics of EvE here and now - which I agree, are unlikely - than try and add something in, which may end up being as easily exploited as the current supercap/Sov aspects of the game.
|
Ohh Yeah
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
205
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 04:51:00 -
[47] - Quote
Clearly there is a problem when members of PL, Goons, and TEST all agree that additional space is needed, and that blobs with supercap proliferation aren't fun gameplay. |
Lord Zim
1027
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 10:11:00 -
[48] - Quote
Those of you who seem to insist JBs are a huge power projection tool, regularly used to project power from one end of the eve universe to the other: you're wrong. |
Jafit
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
297
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 11:22:00 -
[49] - Quote
Katie Frost wrote:So, you are saying that a power bloc hosting 10,000 members and owning vast areas of 0.0... the architects of high-sec ganking, high-sec trade hub raids and other interesting shenanigans, would not be able to dedicate but a fraction of their manpower to find the appropriate wormhole(s) and deploy, oh idk... 1000 drakes in this new region, if not just to screw with this new addition to EvE?
Closer to 30,000 actually.
It really depends on how the wormhole connections to the new frontier cluster were to work in terms of their maximum allowable jump mass, total allowable mass, and where they spawn.
For example the wormhole connections to the new cluster spawned in highsec and lowsec might only be big enough to let through a few cruisers or battlecruisers, and holes spawned in nullsec could only big enough to let through a few battleships. You have to go all the way through w-space and find a C6 wormhole leading to the new frontier regions that would spawn a wormhole big enough to let a Drake blob through. Afaik from current wormhole mass limits, I'd estimate that at best you'd only have enough mass to allow a modest 200 man Drake blob through, and that'd take a lot of effort.
The CFC does simple tactics, it's not good at complicated things en-mass. Leading a Drake blob on a pilgrimage through several wormhole systems to the new starcluster would be akin to the Israelites wandering the desert for 40 years, except DaBigRedBoat is Moses, and he won't give you the warp-in on the next wormhole until everyone in the fleet follows him on Twitter. |
Veinnail
FinFleet
Raiden.
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.20 04:49:00 -
[50] - Quote
New regions of space on the other side of wormholes, PERIOD |
Mechael
Ouroboros Executor Collective
171
|
Posted - 2012.07.20 05:15:00 -
[51] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote:
So basically a 2nd server where things aren't FUBAR.
Pessimistic rant below. Don't read if you don't want to read pessimism.
The truth is that every great MMOPG was actually an interation of the preceeding MMOPG. The next developer looks back and sees all the mistakes of its predecessors, corrects or throws away what was bad, and keeps and expands what was good. The new product is a better game and usually more successful that the last.
Some would say that CCP is trying to do that with their expansions, but a problem is that some of the mistakes of the game are so big and have been in for so long that CCP doesn't have the gumption to make the big, core rage-quit changes that would be needed. For example, CCP should probably completely erase supercapitals from the game as a mistake. Its fears the rage-quits of players, that spent thousands of hours skilling, too much to do so however.
The result are three possibilities
1) we hope that someone in CCP has the gaul to withstand the rage-quits and make the needed slashes completely reversing the mistakes of the past...not likely at this point.
2) we hope that a competitor developer surfaces that has just as much graphical expertise (Eve's graphics are the best in the world IMHO) and makes an alternative to Eve with lessons learned from Eve's mistakes... no one even on the horizon atm.
3) CCP snails along with tweaks that don't really make a difference and hopes that after 10 more years of thousands of perpetual tweaks they somehow eventually arrive to where they initially intended... where we are at now.
yk
Sigh. If there was ever anything that CCP needed to be :fearless: about, it's removing fast-travel from EVE. Well, and getting rid of microtransactions. Both are essential, and both are sadly very unlikely. Makes me wanna cry a little.
Whether or not you win the game matters not. -áIt's if you bought it. |
Mechael
Ouroboros Executor Collective
171
|
Posted - 2012.07.20 05:25:00 -
[52] - Quote
Jafit wrote:without supercaps.
This is the important part. The extra systems part is just the icing. EVE changed for the worse when Red Moon Rising hit. 
Whether or not you win the game matters not. -áIt's if you bought it. |
Theta Eridani
SON OF RAVANA
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.20 06:51:00 -
[53] - Quote
Veinnail wrote:New regions of space on the other side of wormholes, PERIOD
+1
|
Samuella IV
SON OF RAVANA
14
|
Posted - 2012.07.20 06:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
Veinnail wrote:New regions of space on the other side of wormholes, PERIOD
+1
|
MintyRoadkill
Dovahkiin.
Rebel Alliance of New Eden
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 02:19:00 -
[55] - Quote
I disagree that we need another 5,000 star cluster, but i think that the space in the Northeast part of the map should be filled in a bit more, the area past Jove Space, hopefully allowing another Powerbloc to form (perhaps around S2N as the leader, or some other random mid-large size alliance) giving the current 0.0 landscape more varied "nations." The biggest problem with the powerblocs now is that the two biggest alliance are on the same side. Or, at least, were. |
Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc.
Armada Assail
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 14:20:00 -
[56] - Quote
Manar Detri wrote:Kyle Ward wrote:Sweet Baby Jesus add another 5000 systems?! Do you actually want to see another human being again...? I bet he's a miner! On a serious note, there was sometime ago a suggestion of creating systems that were reachable through wormhole space only. In small scale these kind of regions or systems would propably be fun, but on top of that there'd really need to be a lot of entry points from wormhole space, and the regions/systems would really need to be easily maneuverable rather than eaasily defendable.
I like this idea soooooooo much! |
Obam Usan
Alpha Syndicate
Masters of Flying Objects
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 06:04:00 -
[57] - Quote
good idea, good points raised, but maybe next time OP could try to come off a little less mad |
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